Posted: 5/23/2010 11:32:51 AM EDT
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I bought this house last November and I am using the a/c for the first time since. The house was built in the summer of 2005 and I have no idea if the a/c has been serviced since. How often should a person have their a/c serviced/checked/charged? Also what temperature is considered within spec coming out of the vents? It's central air with the outside and basement units being a Rudd. I will place a thermometer on the vent and edit the post accordingly.
I was going to change the filter today as well but it seems I have a permenant filter that only needs to be cleaned. I personally do not believe it has the same abilities as a replacement filter as it looks pretty thin (1/4" of filter at most probably closer to 3/16") and I can see a lot of daylight through it but it measures 16"x21" and the closest replacement I could find was 16"x20" so I passed. I am assuming I need to buy one larger than needed and trim where needed if I want to replace the filter? ETA: I am showing 57 degrees at the vents as well as 57 degrees in the duct work near the a/c unit itself. |
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Hey Pro,
Ok, in an absolute perfect condision you would see a 20 degree drop from the air temp before the AC coil to what comes out the other side. Or if the air going into your return is 70 degrees then 50 degree would come out of the vents. Ok, so we do not live in a perfect world, I would think that about 15 degrees would be the norm. So, I presume that your house was about 72 degrees when you checked it. I have no experience with this filter unless it is metal and kind of looks like a brillo pad but thinner? The ones I serviced when in the military had a waxy oily stuff that was sprayed on it. And then when the filter got loaded up we would pull them and wash them with soap and water. Dry them good and reapplied the waxy oily substance, just a light coat mind you. This would start the process of the dust and dirt to collect on the filter, then that would help collect more till it needed to be washed again. But this might be something different. As for servicing. Every year you should take the garden hose, not a pressure washer and with power removed from the unit. Take the hose and spray back into the unit, opposite direction than the air flow. If you have dogs, find a way to keep them from taking a whiz on the unit. Seen one that got holes in it from the urine being acid like. Depending on the weather and the amount of grass and debris like the cotton from cotton wood in the spring. I would do this before turning on the first time and maybe a few months later. Depending on the cotton wood in your area. Your house will cool faster and the cycles will be shorter, saving your electric bill. Also this causes less stress on the compressor. Hopefully extending the life of the compressor. As for checking the charge. Think of it like having a car tire that does not leak, but you keep checking it daily. Each time your check it, some air escapes. You are then one day going to need to add some air. Same with checking the freon in your A.C. system. One day you are going to need to add some, even if you dont have a leak. Best put that off unless you notice that your A.C. is running longer and more often than say last year. Or you check and see that you no longer have a 15 degree difference between return air temp and supply air temp. Now I am saying 15 degrees, might be a few more or a few less. Best check your system after it has been running for about 3 min. and see what yours is doing. Hope that helps some. |
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My house temp when checking was 78 degrees so I had a 21 degree difference. I had the thermostat set to 74 and it just seemed to run forever to reach 74. That was my main concern. It took about 3 hours to drop the temperature 4 degrees. I think alot may be due to the vent configuration in my living room where the thermostat is located. I have one vent in the living room and one in the dining room with another in the front door foyer. The Kitchen is also connected to this area which is pretty large area for a total of 3 vents. My laundry room is connected to the Kitchen and has a vent but I keep the vent in there closed as well as the laundry door. Another huge factor is probably the vaulted ceiling. All of the rooms except for the laundry room are connected in one big open area. Total area is 24'x24' with a 12' vault over the entire area. Again only three vents to cover that area with the added height over a typical 8' ceiling.
As far as the filter goes I have yet to see any like it. The outside frame is made of plastic and the interior filter media looks more like a football jersey with the open holes in it. It just doesn't look up to par to me. On the bright side when I was taking a look at the a/c unit in the basement the the effeciency tag was still there. Apparently it has a 10 out of 10 and is considered the most efficient (for 2005) so power usage should be down. Thanks for the response. Filter pics 
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We just kicked our AC on last night. A little story to illustrate my point. When I was much younger and learning many little things. I thought that if I open the windows at night when it was cooler and then during the day run the AC I could save some money. Well what happens is that the house soaks up lots of moisture during the night. Then the AC had to work harder to get the moisture back out of the furniture before it would really cool down the house. I noticed this last night. Seem that the AC ran for a long time. But this evening it seems to run for a bit and then kick off. I wonder if that is what you saw that caused your concern.
Weird filter, never seen anything like it. From the sounds of things, I bet your charge is good for this year. |
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OK, I have a little more time now. The filter is what comes with certain brands, like: Rheem, Tempstar, Nordyne. Looking at your filter I'll BET it's a TRANE/American Standard. It's a temp filter. Keep it as a spare. Go buy a 16x20x1. That is the correct size.
If your unit is checked CORRECTLY, the amount of refrigerant removed is MINIMAL at best. It would take at least 10 years for the effects to show up. Since you have a newer unit(post-China metal grabbing), you need to have your system checked either bi-annually, or every year. Sad fact is, manufacturing quality has been piss poor, since China started buying metals from us. On average I change 100 coils a year. The MFG's blame indoor air quality, but that is BUNK. It's piss poor quality(all around) NOONE is exempt, ESPECIALLY the top brands. You MUST stay on top of it. If it is a Trane/A.S. your better off, as they use all Aluminum Coils outdoors, and seem to have the best I.D. coils. Temp spilts must be measured within 3' of the indoor coil(for supply), and before the filter at the return.(Unless you have a bypass humidifier, then it must be before the bypass entrance to the return). Max-Paul is right, Humidity is high right now, the house is saturated. Anything that wick moisture, WILL. Initial run times will be long, as they should be. One the main function's of an AC is to remove moisture from the air, Removing heat is the obvious other, but both must be removed equally otherwise, you won't be comfortable. I don't know where you are located, but if you aren't far I could take a look at it. As new as the unit is, it may have a warranty, that's worth checking into. Here is the kicker...Refrigerant isn't covered as a part. It's NEVER supposed to be consumed, but it's not a part. Anyhow, any questions, give me a call. |
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Hey Ruger,
Thanks for covering for me. I just could not put my finger on the 21 degrees difference. But is that a sign of low freon and the evap is about to ice over or has already started to ice over? Again, thanks for jumping and covering my error. Well, I hope I dont need a system any time soon if all of the makes out there are crap. So, are you saying that a all aluminum condenser is better? I can see that, the copper Aluminum coil would corrode out due to different metals in contact. My old house had a bryant and it had the steel service valve, till I pulled it out and put a piece of copper tubing with a sweated in shraider (SP?) valve. |
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You have some excellant info from a couple people. Just to add a couple things
1) Oil the motor bearings on both the outside unit and the inside fan motor yearly –– will save replacing a motor some day 2) Pick up some evaporator spray cleaner non-washable type. open up indoor unit and check the coils to see if they are pluged –– but probably won;t be since this is not that old , but with that type of filter it probably lets alot of dirt just go thru 3) what I have done –– about a 12 to 15 degree drop is about all you can expect 4) With vaulted ceilings , this will be a tough one to cool, might look at a couple good ceiling fans. Also check insulation in the house |
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Quoted:
Hey Ruger, Thanks for covering for me. I just could not put my finger on the 21 degrees difference. But is that a sign of low freon and the evap is about to ice over or has already started to ice over? Again, thanks for jumping and covering my error. Well, I hope I dont need a system any time soon if all of the makes out there are crap. So, are you saying that a all aluminum condenser is better? I can see that, the copper Aluminum coil would corrode out due to different metals in contact. My old house had a bryant and it had the steel service valve, till I pulled it out and put a piece of copper tubing with a sweated in shraider (SP?) valve. Max. The industry specs state that a 17-21 degree split, is an optimally charged unit. Any thing more/less points to airflow or refrigerant problems. Too cold means not enough air off the coil, to low means not enough juice. Most of the condensers today are well built. The problem is, and has been(for the last 10 years) with the indoor coils. Many mfg's have had nothing but leaking coils, and are just now getting it squared away. |
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Quoted:
You have some excellant info from a couple people. Just to add a couple things 1) Oil the motor bearings on both the outside unit and the inside fan motor yearly –– will save replacing a motor some day 2) Pick up some evaporator spray cleaner non-washable type. open up indoor unit and check the coils to see if they are pluged –– but probably won;t be since this is not that old , but with that type of filter it probably lets alot of dirt just go thru 3) what I have done –– about a 12 to 15 degree drop is about all you can expect 4) With vaulted ceilings , this will be a tough one to cool, might look at a couple good ceiling fans. Also check insulation in the house um...not really with any equipment made in the last 10 or so years...most of the motors are sealed bearings, you WILL cause issues , FWIW I am in the same industry as Rugerdog (primarily commercial refrigeration but the principles and theory are the same), I stopped working in field and went to the other side of the counter 
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Quoted:
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You have some excellant info from a couple people. Just to add a couple things 1) Oil the motor bearings on both the outside unit and the inside fan motor yearly –– will save replacing a motor some day 2) Pick up some evaporator spray cleaner non-washable type. open up indoor unit and check the coils to see if they are pluged –– but probably won;t be since this is not that old , but with that type of filter it probably lets alot of dirt just go thru 3) what I have done –– about a 12 to 15 degree drop is about all you can expect 4) With vaulted ceilings , this will be a tough one to cool, might look at a couple good ceiling fans. Also check insulation in the house um...not really with any equipment made in the last 10 or so years...most of the motors are sealed bearings, you WILL cause issues , FWIW I am in the same industry as Rugerdog (primarily commercial refrigeration but the principles and theory are the same), I stopped working in field and went to the other side of the counter Where do ya work? |
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You have some excellant info from a couple people. Just to add a couple things 1) Oil the motor bearings on both the outside unit and the inside fan motor yearly –– will save replacing a motor some day 2) Pick up some evaporator spray cleaner non-washable type. open up indoor unit and check the coils to see if they are pluged –– but probably won;t be since this is not that old , but with that type of filter it probably lets alot of dirt just go thru 3) what I have done –– about a 12 to 15 degree drop is about all you can expect 4) With vaulted ceilings , this will be a tough one to cool, might look at a couple good ceiling fans. Also check insulation in the house um...not really with any equipment made in the last 10 or so years...most of the motors are sealed bearings, you WILL cause issues , FWIW I am in the same industry as Rugerdog (primarily commercial refrigeration but the principles and theory are the same), I stopped working in field and went to the other side of the counter Where do ya work? ...well...long story short I more or less retired back in September...but...I was made one of those offers i couldnt refuse.....so my early retirement is over for a few more years...dammit....gets in the way of shooting and Trout fishing...I'm in STL... |
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Oh yeah, this reminds me. (well, actually as I was putting in my window air units last night is what reminded me)
I have a leak that needs to be tracked down, and then a freon fill. Any of you arfcom HVAC guys want to make a trip down to Belton some weekend? PM me... |
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Thanks for the replies. Ruger I was just going to call you and figured I better check this thread first.
My unit is a Ruud from what I can tell and it looks as if the heat is a Rheem. I tried to do a little research on both and came up with nothing according to their model numbers. I have no idea what is what when it comes to this stuff as it's not something I have worked with in the past. I couldn't tell you if there is a bypass humidifier or not as I have no clue what they look like. Taking a guess I would say no. When I was measuring the temp split I was measuring ambient temp in the room and comparing it to the temp coming from the vent itself and about 5 feet above the indoor coil. I would imagine the ambient would still be close enough to the cold air return temp to make a decent comparison. I was at 21 degrees before when measured and I would imagine I would still be within 17 degree measuring at the filter. As far as that filter goes the unit itself said it was a permenant filter that needed to be washed periodically but from dealing with automotive air filters and intakes it looked like a piece of junk to me that would not serve its purpose. I will do as you said and buy a 16"x20"x1" next time I am out. I could very well see the humidity yesterday playing it's cards. When I woke up in the morning I had most of the windows open in the house, the hardwood in the kitchen and the ceramic in the bathroom felt clammy/sticky to say the least. I made a comment about it to my wife as well and she agreed. Not long after that is when we initially turned on the a/c. The 12' vault in the larger area of the house as well as a 10' vault in the master bedroom I would assume are a killer. BTW all rooms throughout the house have ceiling fans. I do have a question about thermostats/temperature settings though. Would it be more efficient to leave the thermostat set at say 72 degrees 24/7 vs. when my wife leaves for work in the morning around 8 to set it to 78ish and then when I get home around 4:30 to set it back to 72? I have been thinking about getting a programmable thermostat for that reason or would that be a waste of time and money? I will throw in a few pictures of the units themselves so you can see what I am working with, sorry for the quality as I had to do it with my phone and use my Surefire as a flash. It looks like the cheaper/budget contractors grade stuff to me. Last I am in Warrenton. Thanks, Brett 
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That unit is a Rheem bastard brand(ford/lincoln)
When it's time to change the O.D. unit. move it back to the ground, have it set on feet. That fad there, well, it's long gone. That structure is not, and will not be a universal fit. They had to do that because too many stupid people hit their units with lawn equip. When the heat is on(and it isn't yet), I would recommend no more than 4deg. swings. It's too much work for an AC to do 8deg. swings. Removing the humidity is the hard part, and in 8deg. it's just too much. Normally I run mine at 76 in the day, and then let it cool down the house to 70 while we're sleeping. It's nothing for it then. It works a few hours in the night, and then coasts till about 10 am. ETA: Get a honeywell VisionPro 8000 stat. Big easy touch screen. very simple to install, if you can work a PC you can work these. With a manual stat, your definitely wasting money with your set backs. Those have a MINIMUM of +/- 3degrees, and many are out by 4 or 5. Get a Digital, some are 1degree to a 1/2 degree accurate. I'm a honeywell fan. I have seen too many White-rogers give up the ghost. |
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Way back when, HVAC contractors started putting the units on brackets so they could say they were finished with the job and get paid.
Too many builders would drag out the final grading, the hvac guy couldn't set a pad or the cond unit. And of course the builder wouldn't pay until everything was done. Builders still don't pay very fast, but there is one less excuse. |
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VERY close, lets just say I can see the highschool from my house.....and no I do not live in Warrior Ridge.
Pro, Nice that the unit is off of the ground (condenser). Ok, I am going to take a guess that you are on the south side down by the new fire dept. If that is close then are you on the east side of 47? I am abt 7 miles south of 70 off of 47.. |
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I think the main reason mine is off the ground is due to the lookout windows. That unit is mounted nearly 5 feet off the ground so being lifted in the air makes it a much cleaner installation. I wish it were on the other side of the house though at ground level.
We were requested by the builders to get them off the ground. I'm sure there is a multitude of reasons, and the slow-pay is as good as any. Luckily we have rarely had that problem. I do have the white-rogers as well, I will take note of the thermostat you recommend. Where can I find one? |
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Right Here
This should be the one ya need. And since ya don't have a humidifier you don't need the fancier IAQ, but I promise ya man, this will be the LAST stat you'd need to buy. Intsalling the board is a bit tricky, but the stat uses 3 wires. AND if you add a Humidifier(I would on a HP system), this stat will control it If the IAQ is too fancy/complicated then here is this: This is what I have in my house, and I have a very comparable system to yours You have a 2 stage HP system. HP is main heat(stage 1), When stat senses 2 degrees of heat slide, it engages your Indoor Heater. Your stat does this now, but with much less accuracy. Both of these prices are EXCELLENT! Cheaper than my cost even. Both stats are excellent, the IAQ allows for more future expansion. |
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Oh yeah, this reminds me. (well, actually as I was putting in my window air units last night is what reminded me) I have a leak that needs to be tracked down, and then a freon fill. Any of you arfcom HVAC guys want to make a trip down to Belton some weekend? PM me... I hate to be the bearer of bad news but working on a window shaker in this day and age is well...a false economy of scale and money..unless you have something like a PTAC unit or a mini split cassette type system, typically window shakers have no access ports in either the high or low side lines and this is a PITA , yeah you can put a tap valve on the low side but it really isnt worth the effort or time anymore...there are a FEW and I mean damn few exceptions, casement through the wall with resistant heat type units are SOMETIMES worth working on....once...but usually after 5+ years its bye bye and time for a new one...sorry brother but I would hate to see you call anyone (not an arfcom brother) and have them give you a line of BS |
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Thanks for the replies. Ruger I was just going to call you and figured I better check this thread first. My unit is a Ruud from what I can tell and it looks as if the heat is a Rheem. I tried to do a little research on both and came up with nothing according to their model numbers. I have no idea what is what when it comes to this stuff as it's not something I have worked with in the past. I couldn't tell you if there is a bypass humidifier or not as I have no clue what they look like. Taking a guess I would say no. When I was measuring the temp split I was measuring ambient temp in the room and comparing it to the temp coming from the vent itself and about 5 feet above the indoor coil. I would imagine the ambient would still be close enough to the cold air return temp to make a decent comparison. I was at 21 degrees before when measured and I would imagine I would still be within 17 degree measuring at the filter. As far as that filter goes the unit itself said it was a permenant filter that needed to be washed periodically but from dealing with automotive air filters and intakes it looked like a piece of junk to me that would not serve its purpose. I will do as you said and buy a 16"x20"x1" next time I am out. I could very well see the humidity yesterday playing it's cards. When I woke up in the morning I had most of the windows open in the house, the hardwood in the kitchen and the ceramic in the bathroom felt clammy/sticky to say the least. I made a comment about it to my wife as well and she agreed. Not long after that is when we initially turned on the a/c. The 12' vault in the larger area of the house as well as a 10' vault in the master bedroom I would assume are a killer. BTW all rooms throughout the house have ceiling fans. I do have a question about thermostats/temperature settings though. Would it be more efficient to leave the thermostat set at say 72 degrees 24/7 vs. when my wife leaves for work in the morning around 8 to set it to 78ish and then when I get home around 4:30 to set it back to 72? I have been thinking about getting a programmable thermostat for that reason or would that be a waste of time and money? I will throw in a few pictures of the units themselves so you can see what I am working with, sorry for the quality as I had to do it with my phone and use my Surefire as a flash. It looks like the cheaper/budget contractors grade stuff to me. Last I am in Warrenton. Thanks, Brett http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o101/xtreme4pt3/moto_0056.jpg http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o101/xtreme4pt3/moto_0055.jpg http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o101/xtreme4pt3/moto_0058.jpg http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o101/xtreme4pt3/moto_0057.jpg ...FWIW thats system is serviceable for maybe 10-12 years at the long end, so you prob wont be replacing it just yet, and yeah its typical builder grade, the one thing thats right by design is the evap coil is BELOW the electronics thats good in case of a clogged condensate line , it wont overflow and take out your control board,or the stack relays and switching components, the only 2 things I noticed were somehow you got it passed w/o a trap on the condensate, which in the real world is actually a good thing, but like most residential builders especially during the last few years of the boom your return duct work looks to be a bit small....if you hear a lot of "oil canning" during its cycle , thats why... |
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Oh yeah, this reminds me. (well, actually as I was putting in my window air units last night is what reminded me) I have a leak that needs to be tracked down, and then a freon fill. Any of you arfcom HVAC guys want to make a trip down to Belton some weekend? PM me... I hate to be the bearer of bad news but working on a window shaker in this day and age is well...a false economy of scale and money..unless you have something like a PTAC unit or a mini split cassette type system, typically window shakers have no access ports in either the high or low side lines and this is a PITA , yeah you can put a tap valve on the low side but it really isnt worth the effort or time anymore...there are a FEW and I mean damn few exceptions, casement through the wall with resistant heat type units are SOMETIMES worth working on....once...but usually after 5+ years its bye bye and time for a new one...sorry brother but I would hate to see you call anyone (not an arfcom brother) and have them give you a line of BS Oh, no. I mean my main AC unit has a leak, and no freon in it. Hence me having to use the window units. (I had a guy come out last year, found a leak at the filling point, fixed that, filled it with freon, charged me $400 bucks. Unit started blowing hot air again two weeks later.  )
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