Posted: 2/12/2010 2:12:02 PM EDT
| I have a friend who is taking the class this weekend. He said he is going to a 4hr class with no shooting to get the Utah permit. He said it lasts 5yrs instead of 3 and the renewal is less money. Does this sound right? Anyone else go this route? CB |
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I have not gone that route since I believe in supporting the Missouri system.
Yes, your friends Utah permit will be good in Missouri. The negative is the Gun Free Schools Zone Act and if he travels to a state that will not honor Utah because he is not a Utah resident. Plus he will not learn the laws of Missouri at a Utah class. And, since he will be CCW'ing in Missouri I highly recommend he learn the laws of this state. YMMV |
Sounds right... I think. I took my UT class around 15 years ago. At the time, that one was also only good for 3 years. Other things might have changed a since then too. 
Interestingly enough, my UT and MO permits both expire on the same day next month. I just renewed UT for $10 plus the cost of a photo. I think MO is $50. I would recommend getting a MO permit, for all of the reasons already noted (except the Gun Free School Zone part. How does that apply in this case? And if you're talking about the Federal act, that one got smacked down several years ago. Care to elaborate on that?) However, when the MO CCW law originally passed, I refused to get one. Actually, I wasn't allowed to get one, as I lived in St. Louis County. They and three others had to be forced by the courts to start accepting applications a year after the law passed. These four counties used my tax dollars to actively fight against the CCW law. It is apparent that they did not want my fees for a CCW permit, and I refuse to give them any. I was already covered from my existing UT permit, so I was legal to carry the second the law went into effect. I even had a letter published in the STL Post Dispatch stating that, after they wrote an editorial about the number of applicants being lower than initially expected. Once I moved to a "better" county, I immediately applied for my permit there. |
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I have a friend who is taking the class this weekend. He said he is going to a 4hr class with no shooting to get the Utah permit. He said it lasts 5yrs instead of 3 and the renewal is less money. Does this sound right? Anyone else go this route? CB He is correct. My cousin just took a 4 hour to apply for his Utah permit. As far as states not recognizing it, I'm pretty sure it will be good in about 28 states. I myself rarely travel out of Missouri but when I do it is usually on a plane out of the country so for me it would be a moot point..... |
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I heard this in a gun shop. So it may not be true.
This guy came in with a story about how he got pulled over and had a Utah permit. The cop told him he had no way to verify the permit and since he was not driving on a Utah License he would take his gun and write him a receipt for it. He said he then went to go pick it up and they asked for a bill of sale showing he was the owner. That is what he was at the gun store for. Trying to get a copy of his receipt. So I asked a cop friend. He said that might be true. He says there is a way to verify a MO CCW. But said he has no idea if they can verify a Utah permit. |
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Op I had once heard that Kansas was now legal on a NR Utah permit but after further review realized that I was misled.
KANSAS does not except them (AR OK does and I go there) as far as I can tell. I don't go there anyway but this was always the state mentioned in this discussion. Quoted:
I heard this in a gun shop. So it may not be true. This guy came in with a story about how he got pulled over and had a Utah permit. The cop told him he had no way to verify the permit and since he was not driving on a Utah License he would take his gun and write him a receipt for it. He said he then went to go pick it up and they asked for a bill of sale showing he was the owner. That is what he was at the gun store for. Trying to get a copy of his receipt. So I asked a cop friend. He said that might be true. He says there is a way to verify a MO CCW. But said he has no idea if they can verify a Utah permit. I would have asked the JBT to please read the back of the permit! LEO hotline is present. And I would beat him back to the depot or cop shop and file a theft report and call the ATF. After that comes fileing a lawsuit for what ever the shark I would pay thinks might stick. |
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Op I had once heard that Kansas was now legal on a NR Utah permit but after further review realized that I was misled. KANSAS does not except them (AR OK does and I go there) as far as I can tell. I don't go there anyway but this was always the state mentioned in this discussion. Quoted:
I heard this in a gun shop. So it may not be true. This guy came in with a story about how he got pulled over and had a Utah permit. The cop told him he had no way to verify the permit and since he was not driving on a Utah License he would take his gun and write him a receipt for it. He said he then went to go pick it up and they asked for a bill of sale showing he was the owner. That is what he was at the gun store for. Trying to get a copy of his receipt. So I asked a cop friend. He said that might be true. He says there is a way to verify a MO CCW. But said he has no idea if they can verify a Utah permit. I would have asked the JBT to please read the back of the permit! LEO hotline is present. And I would beat him back to the depot or cop shop and file a theft report and call the ATF. After that comes fileing a lawsuit for what ever the shark I would pay thinks might stick. Both of the police officers mentioned here are ignorant about the Mo CCW law. Even if your an out of state resident passing threw Mo you don't even need a permit to carry concealed in your vehicle.All that is needed is you be 21 yrs old and be in possession of a handgun that is not stolen..The only time you should ever have to prove owner ship is if the gun is lost,and found,or if it is stolen and recovered..what happened here was a direct violation of your 2nd amendment.....If it happened to me I would run strait to my attorney...Also there is a 24/7 number on the back of ALL Utah CCW pemits for LEO to call and verify,but you shouldn't have to unless you were out of your vehicle at that time.. |
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Op I had once heard that Kansas was now legal on a NR Utah permit but after further review realized that I was misled. KANSAS does not except them (AR OK does and I go there) as far as I can tell. I don't go there anyway but this was always the state mentioned in this discussion. Quoted:
I heard this in a gun shop. So it may not be true. This guy came in with a story about how he got pulled over and had a Utah permit. The cop told him he had no way to verify the permit and since he was not driving on a Utah License he would take his gun and write him a receipt for it. He said he then went to go pick it up and they asked for a bill of sale showing he was the owner. That is what he was at the gun store for. Trying to get a copy of his receipt. So I asked a cop friend. He said that might be true. He says there is a way to verify a MO CCW. But said he has no idea if they can verify a Utah permit. I would have asked the JBT to please read the back of the permit! LEO hotline is present. And I would beat him back to the depot or cop shop and file a theft report and call the ATF. After that comes fileing a lawsuit for what ever the shark I would pay thinks might stick. Both of the police officers mentioned here are ignorant about the Mo CCW law. Even if your an out of state resident passing threw Mo you don't even need a permit to carry concealed in your vehicle.All that is needed is you be 21 yrs old and be in possession of a handgun that is not stolen..The only time you should ever have to prove owner ship is if the gun is lost,and found,or if it is stolen and recovered..what happened here was a direct violation of your 2nd amendment.....If it happened to me I would run strait to my attorney...Also there is a 24/7 number on the back of ALL Utah CCW pemits for LEO to call and verify,but you shouldn't have to unless you were out of your vehicle at that time.. This +1! MO allows peacable journey without a permit. That was allowed even before CCW. Another thing that was allowed before CCW was you could carry CCW as long as you carried one weapon open. That made it easy for a hunter that also wanted to carry a handgun under his coat. I had to show that in statutes to a cop friend once. He swore up and down that CCW was completely ilegal for a civilian and I pulled it up in the statutes to show him the MO did allow CCW without a permit as long as you carried another weapon open. |
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Mo honors ccws from all states that issue them.
You can also carry concealed in your car if you legally own the handgun. the ccw law aknowledged that you car/truck was considered an extension of your home. Utah ccws have a 24 hour phone number listed on the back to verify validity. |
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<snip> This +1! MO allows peacable journey without a permit. That was allowed even before CCW. Another thing that was allowed before CCW was you could carry CCW as long as you carried one weapon open. That made it easy for a hunter that also wanted to carry a handgun under his coat. I had to show that in statutes to a cop friend once. He swore up and down that CCW was completely ilegal for a civilian and I pulled it up in the statutes to show him the MO did allow CCW without a permit as long as you carried another weapon open. This is a common sense law...Don't worry about the handgun under my coat if I am carrying a mini-gun out in the open... 
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Mo honors ccws from all states that issue them. You can also carry concealed in your car if you legally own the handgun. the ccw law aknowledged that you car/truck was considered an extension of your home. Utah ccws have a 24 hour phone number listed on the back to verify validity. Here is quadry that I have wondered about. Okay you are conceal carrying in your truck without a permit. Now you get stopped. If asked to exit the vehicle how do you handle it? I don't want to have to touch my gun with an officer all tensed up on me and I really don't care much and him or her disarming me. |
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Mo honors ccws from all states that issue them. You can also carry concealed in your car if you legally own the handgun. the ccw law aknowledged that you car/truck was considered an extension of your home. Utah ccws have a 24 hour phone number listed on the back to verify validity. Here is quadry that I have wondered about. Okay you are conceal carrying in your truck without a permit. Now you get stopped. If asked to exit the vehicle how do you handle it? I don't want to have to touch my gun with an officer all tensed up on me and I really don't care much and him or her disarming me. [/quote/] Open carry gives faster access to your weapon. Why would you carry concealed in your truck without a permit? But still a good question. |
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I have a Utah CCW. The Cost is way less and he is correct it is Valid for 5 years also the Renewal Fee is way less compared to a MO CCW.
Issuing State - Cost of Permit - # of Years Valid - Renewal Fee - # of States Honoring - Min.Age Missouri - up to $111 - 3 - $61 - 36 - 23 Utah - $65.25 - 5 - $10 - 29 - 21 I had to get a Utah CCW since the MO one is not recognized in Utah. But the no Shooting and only 4hrs. I can not speak to that. My class was 8hrs and we had to shot a Revolver and a Pistol ea. 20 Rounds. 10 of ea. had to have some decent grouping. |
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Mo honors ccws from all states that issue them. You can also carry concealed in your car if you legally own the handgun. the ccw law aknowledged that you car/truck was considered an extension of your home. Utah ccws have a 24 hour phone number listed on the back to verify validity. Here is quadry that I have wondered about. Okay you are conceal carrying in your truck without a permit. Now you get stopped. If asked to exit the vehicle how do you handle it? I don't want to have to touch my gun with an officer all tensed up on me and I really don't care much and him or her disarming me. [/quote/] Open carry gives faster access to your weapon. Why would you carry concealed in your truck without a permit? But still a good question. I don't just a question. I carry in a shoulder holster so that if I have to vacate the truck due to an "incident" I can grab a strap of the holster and go and 2 reloads and my gun will come along. |
| Is there a law somewhere that says you have to have proof of ownership for your guns? I never heard that before. I have alot more that I dont have a bill of sale for than ones that I do. Anyone know any facts on how you prove ownership of guns you have owned for 30 years but have no bill of sale or anything for. |
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Is there a law somewhere that says you have to have proof of ownership for your guns? I never heard that before. I have alot more that I dont have a bill of sale for than ones that I do. Anyone know any facts on how you prove ownership of guns you have owned for 30 years but have no bill of sale or anything for. There is no such law in MO. No ownership documents are required for firearms. |
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I would recommend getting a MO permit, for all of the reasons already noted (except the Gun Free School Zone part. How does that apply in this case? And if you're talking about the Federal act, that one got smacked down several years ago. Care to elaborate on that?) Yes the Gun Free School Zone Act (Federal) was shot down by the courts, but is was resurrected by Congress and is still in effect today. It is a B.S. law that has not been challenged in court to date. Even though it is full of B.S., it still is a law on the books. If you have a CCW from the state you live in, you can CCW within the GFS Zone but not in the buildings (unless permission has been given). If you have an out of state permit, you cannot CCW within the home state GFS Zone without risking being arrested for doing so (very unlikely, but could happen). |
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I heard this in a gun shop. So it may not be true. This guy came in with a story about how he got pulled over and had a Utah permit. The cop told him he had no way to verify the permit and since he was not driving on a Utah License he would take his gun and write him a receipt for it. He said he then went to go pick it up and they asked for a bill of sale showing he was the owner. That is what he was at the gun store for. Trying to get a copy of his receipt. So I asked a cop friend. He said that might be true. He says there is a way to verify a MO CCW. But said he has no idea if they can verify a Utah permit. If the man was pulled over in Missouri, then what we have here is a very un-informed LEO. Since Missouri allows CCW within your vehicle without a permit (and at 21 years of age) the confiscation was illegal, out-of-state permit or not. If you find yourself in this situation, contact your lawyer immediately. |
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Quoted:This +1! MO allows peacable journey without a permit. That was allowed even before CCW. Another thing that was allowed before CCW was you could carry CCW as long as you carried one weapon open. That made it easy for a hunter that also wanted to carry a handgun under his coat. I had to show that in statutes to a cop friend once. He swore up and down that CCW was completely ilegal for a civilian and I pulled it up in the statutes to show him the MO did allow CCW without a permit as long as you carried another weapon open.
Care to explain where this statue is? |
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Quoted:Okay you are conceal carrying in your truck without a permit. Now you get stopped. If asked to exit the vehicle how do you handle it? I don't want to have to touch my gun with an officer all tensed up on me and I really don't care much and him or her disarming me. [/quote/]
If you are carrying in a shoulder holster, in your car, without a CCW permit, then exiting your car with the gun on would be a violation of Missouri Statues. So, how to handle if asked to exit the vehicle. Tell the officer you have your emergency equipment in a shoulder holster and ask them how you should proceed. Do not exit the car with the gun concealed for you may fall into a trap. Better yet, do not get pulled over....  |
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Quoted:Okay you are conceal carrying in your truck without a permit. Now you get stopped. If asked to exit the vehicle how do you handle it? I don't want to have to touch my gun with an officer all tensed up on me and I really don't care much and him or her disarming me. [/quote/]
If you are carrying in a shoulder holster, in your car, without a CCW permit, then exiting your car with the gun on would be a violation of Missouri Statues. So, how to handle if asked to exit the vehicle. Tell the officer you have your emergency equipment in a shoulder holster and ask them how you should proceed. Do not exit the car with the gun concealed for you may fall into a trap. Better yet, do not get pulled over.... Well not getting pulled over is easier said than done. If you drive late at night and just so happen to touch the white or yellow line while they are around they assume you are drinking. |
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Quoted:Okay you are conceal carrying in your truck without a permit. Now you get stopped. If asked to exit the vehicle how do you handle it? I don't want to have to touch my gun with an officer all tensed up on me and I really don't care much and him or her disarming me. [/quote/]
If you are carrying in a shoulder holster, in your car, without a CCW permit, then exiting your car with the gun on would be a violation of Missouri Statues. So, how to handle if asked to exit the vehicle. Tell the officer you have your emergency equipment in a shoulder holster and ask them how you should proceed. Do not exit the car with the gun concealed for you may fall into a trap. Better yet, do not get pulled over.... Well not getting pulled over is easier said than done. If you drive late at night and just so happen to allegedly touch the white or yellow line while they are around they assume you are drinking. Fixed. What you're really getting pulled over for is Driving At Night. |
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Quoted:This +1! MO allows peacable journey without a permit. That was allowed even before CCW. Another thing that was allowed before CCW was you could carry CCW as long as you carried one weapon open. That made it easy for a hunter that also wanted to carry a handgun under his coat. I had to show that in statutes to a cop friend once. He swore up and down that CCW was completely ilegal for a civilian and I pulled it up in the statutes to show him the MO did allow CCW without a permit as long as you carried another weapon open.
Care to explain where this statue is? Not hard to find if you just do a little reseach in the Missouri Revised Statutes Chapter 571 Weapons Offenses Section 571.030 August 28, 2009 Unlawful use of weapons––exceptions––penalties. 571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly: (1) Carries concealed upon or about his or her person a knife, a firearm, a blackjack or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use; or (2) Sets a spring gun; or (3) Discharges or shoots a firearm into a dwelling house, a railroad train, boat, aircraft, or motor vehicle as defined in section 302.010, RSMo, or any building or structure used for the assembling of people; or (4) Exhibits, in the presence of one or more persons, any weapon readily capable of lethal use in an angry or threatening manner; or (5) Possesses or discharges a firearm or projectile weapon while intoxicated; or (6) Discharges a firearm within one hundred yards of any occupied schoolhouse, courthouse, or church building; or (7) Discharges or shoots a firearm at a mark, at any object, or at random, on, along or across a public highway or discharges or shoots a firearm into any outbuilding; or (8) Carries a firearm or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use into any church or place where people have assembled for worship, or into any election precinct on any election day, or into any building owned or occupied by any agency of the federal government, state government, or political subdivision thereof; or (9) Discharges or shoots a firearm at or from a motor vehicle, as defined in section 301.010, RSMo, discharges or shoots a firearm at any person, or at any other motor vehicle, or at any building or habitable structure, unless the person was lawfully acting in self-defense; or (10) Carries a firearm, whether loaded or unloaded, or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use into any school, onto any school bus, or onto the premises of any function or activity sponsored or sanctioned by school officials or the district school board. 2. Subdivisions (1), (3), (4), (6), (7), (8), (9) and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to or affect any of the following: (1) All state, county and municipal peace officers who have completed the training required by the police officer standards and training commission pursuant to sections 590.030 to 590.050, RSMo, and possessing the duty and power of arrest for violation of the general criminal laws of the state or for violation of ordinances of counties or municipalities of the state, whether such officers are on or off duty, and whether such officers are within or outside of the law enforcement agency's jurisdiction, or all qualified retired peace officers, as defined in subsection 10 of this section, and who carry the identification defined in subsection 11 of this section, or any person summoned by such officers to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace while actually engaged in assisting such officer; (2) Wardens, superintendents and keepers of prisons, penitentiaries, jails and other institutions for the detention of persons accused or convicted of crime; (3) Members of the armed forces or national guard while performing their official duty; (4) Those persons vested by article V, section 1 of the Constitution of Missouri with the judicial power of the state and those persons vested by Article III of the Constitution of the United States with the judicial power of the United States, the members of the federal judiciary; (5) Any person whose bona fide duty is to execute process, civil or criminal; (6) Any federal probation officer or federal flight deck officer as defined under the federal flight deck officer program, 49 U.S.C. Section 44921; (7) Any state probation or parole officer, including supervisors and members of the board of probation and parole; (8) Any corporate security advisor meeting the definition and fulfilling the requirements of the regulations established by the board of police commissioners under section 84.340, RSMo; and (9) Any coroner, deputy coroner, medical examiner, or assistant medical examiner. 3. Subdivisions (1), (5), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section do not apply when the actor is transporting such weapons in a nonfunctioning state or in an unloaded state when ammunition is not readily accessible or when such weapons are not readily accessible. Subdivision (1) of subsection 1 of this section does not apply to any person twenty-one years of age or older transporting a concealable firearm in the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle, so long as such concealable firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed, nor when the actor is also in possession of an exposed firearm or projectile weapon for the lawful pursuit of game, or is in his or her dwelling unit or upon premises over which the actor has possession, authority or control, or is traveling in a continuous journey peaceably through this state. Subdivision (10) of subsection 1 of this section does not apply if the firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed by a person while traversing school premises for the purposes of transporting a student to or from school, or possessed by an adult for the purposes of facilitation of a school-sanctioned firearm-related event. |
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I would recommend getting a MO permit, for all of the reasons already noted (except the Gun Free School Zone part. How does that apply in this case? And if you're talking about the Federal act, that one got smacked down several years ago. Care to elaborate on that?) Yes the Gun Free School Zone Act (Federal) was shot down by the courts, but is was resurrected by Congress and is still in effect today. It is a B.S. law that has not been challenged in court to date. Even though it is full of B.S., it still is a law on the books. If you have a CCW from the state you live in, you can CCW within the GFS Zone but not in the buildings (unless permission has been given). If you have an out of state permit, you cannot CCW within the home state GFS Zone without risking being arrested for doing so (very unlikely, but could happen). Do you have a link to the text of that law? Specifically any exceptions for an in-state CCW but not for a non-resident CCW? |
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I had to get a Utah CCW since the MO one is not recognized in Utah. Utah recognizes permits issued by any state or county. 76-10-523. Persons exempt from weapons laws. (1) This part and Title 53, Chapter 5, Part 7, Concealed Weapon Act, do not apply to any of the following: (a) a United States marshal; (b) a federal official required to carry a firearm; (c) a peace officer of this or any other jurisdiction; (d) a law enforcement official as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711; (e) a judge as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711; (f) a common carrier while engaged in the regular and ordinary transport of firearms as merchandise; or (g) a nonresident traveling in or through the state, provided that any firearm is: (i) unloaded; and (ii) securely encased as defined in Section 76-10-501. (2) The provisions of Subsections 76-10-504(1) and (2), and Section 76-10-505 do not apply to any person to whom a permit to carry a concealed firearm has been issued: (a) pursuant to Section 53-5-704; or (b) by another state or county. |
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I would recommend getting a MO permit, for all of the reasons already noted (except the Gun Free School Zone part. How does that apply in this case? And if you're talking about the Federal act, that one got smacked down several years ago. Care to elaborate on that?) Yes the Gun Free School Zone Act (Federal) was shot down by the courts, but is was resurrected by Congress and is still in effect today. It is a B.S. law that has not been challenged in court to date. Even though it is full of B.S., it still is a law on the books. If you have a CCW from the state you live in, you can CCW within the GFS Zone but not in the buildings (unless permission has been given). If you have an out of state permit, you cannot CCW within the home state GFS Zone without risking being arrested for doing so (very unlikely, but could happen). Do you have a link to the text of that law? Specifically any exceptions for an in-state CCW but not for a non-resident CCW? Missouri Revised Statutes Chapter 571 Weapons Offenses Section 571.030 August 28, 2009 Read read read 4. Subdivisions (1), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to any person who has a valid concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 or a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed firearms issued by another state or political subdivision of another state. |
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3. Subdivisions (1), (5), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section do not apply when ... nor when the actor is also in possession of an exposed firearm or projectile weapon for the lawful pursuit of game, Thank you sir for posting. Having read this statute many times I am embarrassed that I missed this portion. Kudos! |
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3. Subdivisions (1), (5), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section do not apply when ... nor when the actor is also in possession of an exposed firearm or projectile weapon for the lawful pursuit of game, Thank you sir for posting. Having read this statute many times I am embarrassed that I missed this portion. Kudos! You are welcome!!! 
That part of the law used to be argued with LE and civilian for a long time. Years ago while at bow camp sitting around a camp fire we got into quite a heated discussion in reference this topic. One of the non LEO hunters was CCW while he was hunting with a shot gun. Both weapons were legal to carry and were also legal to carry during this hunting season. But, some of the LEO's tried to tell him that he could not CCW because there was not law at the time for it. I told them there was an exception in the law for hunters, or, while in the pursuit of game, that a person could CCW as long as they were open carrying another firearm. Well, the shit hit the fan and they argued with me tooth and nail. When I returned to work I made sure I printed a copy of the law and educated my buddies!! LOL Actually I thought that verbage of the law may have changed since CCW came around but it has not. SO, if you are hunting in MO and do not have a CCW, you can carry CCW as long as you are open carrying another firearm. The only issued I see with this is if you are carrying something that is not legal to hunt with and maybe a conservation agent may have an issue with it. |
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3. Subdivisions (1), (5), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section do not apply when ... nor when the actor is also in possession of an exposed firearm or projectile weapon for the lawful pursuit of game, Thank you sir for posting. Having read this statute many times I am embarrassed that I missed this portion. Kudos! You are welcome!!!
That part of the law used to be argued with LE and civilian for a long time. Years ago while at bow camp sitting around a camp fire we got into quite a heated discussion in reference this topic. One of the non LEO hunters was CCW while he was hunting with a shot gun. Both weapons were legal to carry and were also legal to carry during this hunting season. But, some of the LEO's tried to tell him that he could not CCW because there was not law at the time for it. I told them there was an exception in the law for hunters, or, while in the pursuit of game, that a person could CCW as long as they were open carrying another firearm. Well, the shit hit the fan and they argued with me tooth and nail. When I returned to work I made sure I printed a copy of the law and educated my buddies!! LOL Actually I thought that verbage of the law may have changed since CCW came around but it has not. SO, if you are hunting in MO and do not have a CCW, you can carry CCW as long as you are open carrying another firearm. The only issued I see with this is if you are carrying something that is not legal to hunt with and maybe a conservation agent may have an issue with it. This is true! I once got a friend off of a felony charge of carrying a conceaed weapon back before CCW passed in Missouri. He was caught with a hunting knife under his coveralls while lawfully deer hunting with a rifle and was arrested for unlawful use of a weapon. His lawyer told him the best he could do for him was 2 years in DOC as the prosecutor would not plea bargin it to a misdemeanor. I told him about the exception and he printed a copy of the law and took it to his attorney. His attorney said, "Huh, I didn't know that!" The prosecutor dropped the charges related to the CCW and he got probation for an unrelated charge. Shows that when dealing with weapons related charges it is best to get and experienced attorney like Kevin Jamison to keep from being convicted of something that is not even illegal. |
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I would recommend getting a MO permit, for all of the reasons already noted (except the Gun Free School Zone part. How does that apply in this case? And if you're talking about the Federal act, that one got smacked down several years ago. Care to elaborate on that?) Yes the Gun Free School Zone Act (Federal) was shot down by the courts, but is was resurrected by Congress and is still in effect today. It is a B.S. law that has not been challenged in court to date. Even though it is full of B.S., it still is a law on the books. If you have a CCW from the state you live in, you can CCW within the GFS Zone but not in the buildings (unless permission has been given). If you have an out of state permit, you cannot CCW within the home state GFS Zone without risking being arrested for doing so (very unlikely, but could happen). Do you have a link to the text of that law? Specifically any exceptions for an in-state CCW but not for a non-resident CCW? Here is the document as listed by the GunLaw website: http://www.gunlaws.com/Gun_Free_School_Zones_Act.pdf Specifically Section (2) (B) (ii). Now it could be argued that since the State of Missouri recognizes all permits issued by other states / political subdivisions, that a person would be covered under if carrying in a GFSZ. This, of course, has not been tested in a court of law. |
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Title 18, Chapter 44, Section 922 U.S. Code: (Gun Free Schools Zone Act of 1996)
(q)(1) The Congress finds and declares that - (A) crime, particularly crime involving drugs and guns, is a pervasive, nationwide problem; (B) crime at the local level is exacerbated by the interstate movement of drugs, guns, and criminal gangs; (C) firearms and ammunition move easily in interstate commerce and have been found in increasing numbers in and around schools, as documented in numerous hearings in both the Committee on the Judiciary (!3) the House of Representatives and the Committee on the Judiciary of the Senate; (D) in fact, even before the sale of a firearm, the gun, its component parts, ammunition, and the raw materials from which they are made have considerably moved in interstate commerce; (E) while criminals freely move from State to State, ordinary citizens and foreign visitors may fear to travel to or through certain parts of the country due to concern about violent crime and gun violence, and parents may decline to send their children to school for the same reason; (F) the occurrence of violent crime in school zones has resulted in a decline in the quality of education in our country; (G) this decline in the quality of education has an adverse impact on interstate commerce and the foreign commerce of the United States; (H) States, localities, and school systems find it almost impossible to handle gun-related crime by themselves - even States, localities, and school systems that have made strong efforts to prevent, detect, and punish gun-related crime find their efforts unavailing due in part to the failure or inability of other States or localities to take strong measures; and (I) the Congress has the power, under the interstate commerce clause and other provisions of the Constitution, to enact measures to ensure the integrity and safety of the Nation's schools by enactment of this subsection. (2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone. (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm - (i) on private property not part of school grounds; (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license; (iii) that is - (I) not loaded; and (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle; (iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone; (v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual; (vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or (vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities. (3)(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), it shall be unlawful for any person, knowingly or with reckless disregard for the safety of another, to discharge or attempt to discharge a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the person knows is a school zone. (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the discharge of a firearm - (i) on private property not part of school grounds; (ii) as part of a program approved by a school in the school zone, by an individual who is participating in the program; (iii) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in a school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual; or (iv) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity. (4) Nothing in this subsection shall be construed as preempting or preventing a State or local government from enacting a statute establishing gun free school zones as provided in this subsection. |