Posted: 11/20/2009 5:33:51 AM EDT
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Let me first say sorry for this repost asking about attaining a suppressor, but after reading and researching I am more lost than a cheetah in alaska. Maybe I'm just dense though.
I'm trying to find out the easiest (if there is one) way to obtain a suppressor. I read over the LLC thread, but that seems like more work than its worth, between creating seperate bank accounts, paying lawyers to draw up business contracts, etc etc etc. I wouldn't mind getting the C&R, but it seems like to get the C&R I have to make an LLC, etc. So my question is what is the easiest/quickest/cheapest way to obtain a suppressor? Also once obtaining am I going to need to obtain log sheets etc for BATF audits? I was only really looking at one for maybe a .22, one for a 9mm, and one for a 45 for recoil and noise reduction for my father. Thanks for any help you can provide. 
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You dont have to setup a llc, but by having one setup by your attorney and getting the c&r for the llc will allow you to add people as boardmembers and they can be given permission to be in control of the suppressor.
its a pretty big thing to setup and should only be trusted to a law professional versed in missouri law, i IMHO wouldn't trust any online software to set up an NFA Trust or LLC. Your trust or llc may be approved by the ATF but if one minor thing is wrong you are liable for being in illegal possesion of an NFA item. just my .02 cents PS. Dont take any online suggestions as "law" talk to your legal counsel and go from there. |
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NFA has been made a difficult game by the feds. However, stick in there and it is fun!
To own non-C&R NFA items in MO will REQUIRE you to hold a FFL and a C&R license at $30/3yrs is the cheapest and easist to acquire. C&R NFA items are few and far between not to mention usually quite expensive due to their age and collector status, so for the most part when folks discuss NFA toys, they are discussing non-C&R items. FYI, there are C&R suppressors out there, but they are going to be expensive due to their collector status and they are generally not gong to be near as quiet as a suppressor of modern design. You can go the "individual" route, requiring you to get fingerprinted and photographed and asking your favorite local CLEO for a sign-off, for each NFA item you decide to buy. This is cheaper and if you have the time for all the required work-day driving around and an amenable CLEO to work with, go this route. Going the "corporate" route and forming a LLC is a little work, but can all be done from the comfort of your computer chair. (Trusts do NOT work in MO since a Trust is not legally able to hold a FFL and the entity purchasing the NFA item in question MUST hold a FFL.) IIRC, Mo now charges ~$50 to form a LLC and that is also done completely online at the MO Secretary Of State's website. Use this link to see if your desired LLC name is available first. Choose "perpetual" as the LLC's duration, choose "members" (NOT "managers") for all names submitted as LLC persons who will be legally allowed to be in posession of the NFA items in question (hubby, wife, kids and even friends), use your name as the "registrar". There is no need to open a bank account in the LLC's name, your personal checks work just fine for the ATF. Upon successful formation of the LLC, you apply for a C&R license in the LLC's name. The ATF will send you the necessary forms free of charge in order to apply for a C&R license. When you get the C&R in the LLC's name, you are free to start shopping for toys. Your dealer will guide you through the Form 1 or 4 paperwork (depending upon which item you're building or buying). Include a $200 check (using a personal check allows you to more easily track when the ATF cashes it versus using a MO) with the application and then sit back & wait for the slow gears of the .gov machine to approve your application. When your check cashes, and it will be pretty darned quick, usually withint 1-2 weeks of mailing, that means they have reeived your application and are forwarding it to the appropriate NFA office. Currently they are taking about 3 months to approve applications. NFA is most definitely NOT a game of instant gratification. What part of the state you are in will dictate who we recommend you to work with as a reputable and freindly dealer. If you're anywhere near KC, I, and many others, will recommend Bret at B&R Guns as a VERY good dealer to work with. Allow me to also suggest you to thoroughly research the items that you desire to purchase. NFA purchases are often considered a "lifetime" purchase considering all the hassle you go through to acquire them, as well as nearly identical amount of hassles required if you ever decide to sell the items. If suppressors are your interest, allow me to HIGHLY suggest spending the $30 for a year's membership at Silencer Research. The $30 spent there will be the absolute best money you ever spend on suppressors and the comparison tests done at that site are a GREAT resource to allow you to make the best possible suppressor purchase decision. Whew, Eric |
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I went the "Individual" route........get your C&R, buy the silencer either direct from a dealer or have it transfered to your Class III dealer....have your Class III help you fill out the ATF Form4, then take it to your CLEO for a signature and fingerprints......mail it to the ATF
Alot less hassle, less money....and I'm the individual owner. I dont plan on giving anyone else control over my NFA items and my Clay County Sheriff rocks when it comes to signing off on NFA items! |
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Let me first say sorry for this repost asking about attaining a suppressor, but after reading and researching I am more lost than a cheetah in alaska. Maybe I'm just dense though. I'm trying to find out the easiest (if there is one) way to obtain a suppressor. I read over the LLC thread, but that seems like more work than its worth, between creating seperate bank accounts, paying lawyers to draw up business contracts, etc etc etc. I wouldn't mind getting the C&R, but it seems like to get the C&R I have to make an LLC, etc. So my question is what is the easiest/quickest/cheapest way to obtain a suppressor? Also once obtaining am I going to need to obtain log sheets etc for BATF audits? I was only really looking at one for maybe a .22, one for a 9mm, and one for a 45 for recoil and noise reduction for my father. Thanks for any help you can provide. If you are wanting to get a can for your father, either: A.) He will have to be the one getting the FFL and doing the Form 4 for his one can B.) You will have to go the LLC route and have him on the company board giving him legal access to the item C.) You will have to keep possession of the can and only let your father use it in your presence. |
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Let me first say sorry for this repost asking about attaining a suppressor, but after reading and researching I am more lost than a cheetah in alaska. Maybe I'm just dense though. I'm trying to find out the easiest (if there is one) way to obtain a suppressor. I read over the LLC thread, but that seems like more work than its worth, between creating seperate bank accounts, paying lawyers to draw up business contracts, etc etc etc. I wouldn't mind getting the C&R, but it seems like to get the C&R I have to make an LLC, etc. So my question is what is the easiest/quickest/cheapest way to obtain a suppressor? Also once obtaining am I going to need to obtain log sheets etc for BATF audits? I was only really looking at one for maybe a .22, one for a 9mm, and one for a 45 for recoil and noise reduction for my father. Thanks for any help you can provide. If you are wanting to get a can for your father, either: A.) He will have to be the one getting the FFL and doing the Form 4 for his one can B.) You will have to go the LLC route and have him on the company board giving him legal access to the item C.) You will have to keep possession of the can and only let your father use it in your presence. In this sort of a case, the LLC beats going the individual route as multiple persons can legally possess the NFA item in question. If you choose the individual route, you MUST be present at all times when others are playing with your NFA toys. |
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I went the "Individual" route........get your C&R, buy the silencer either direct from a dealer or have it transfered to your Class III dealer....have your Class III help you fill out the ATF Form4, then take it to your CLEO for a signature and fingerprints......mail it to the ATF Alot less hassle, less money....and I'm the individual owner. I dont plan on giving anyone else control over my NFA items and my Clay County Sheriff rocks when it comes to signing off on NFA items! i was wondering how they were with NFA items. how quick was he to sign it? I live in KC North and saving money to pick up a can for my AR |
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I went the "Individual" route........get your C&R, buy the silencer either direct from a dealer or have it transfered to your Class III dealer....have your Class III help you fill out the ATF Form4, then take it to your CLEO for a signature and fingerprints......mail it to the ATF Alot less hassle, less money....and I'm the individual owner. I dont plan on giving anyone else control over my NFA items and my Clay County Sheriff rocks when it comes to signing off on NFA items! i was wondering how they were with NFA items. how quick was he to sign it? I live in KC North and saving money to pick up a can for my AR under 5 minutes! Bob Boydston kicks ass! I went to high school with the blonde that works behind the bullet proof glass and usually take my one year old son with me.....Boydston is usually fast enough we cant hardly have a conversation about our kids before the Form 4 is back in my hands. On a side note....my dad shoots with my silencers all the time, but they go home with me. He has his toys, I have mine, we share and shoot each others guns and stuff, but I always take mine home and he always takes his home. Setting up the LLC would only be worth it to me if I was going to leave my NFA toys with my dad. |
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also if file for a C&R as an LLC, do you only need to send in form F 5330.20? You will still need to fill out the form 1 or form 4 along with the 5330.20, but you can skip the CLEO signature and the photo. is that for when you buy you NFA items or when you send in for your C&R? I was asking for when you send in for the C&R itself |
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also if file for a C&R as an LLC, do you only need to send in form F 5330.20? You will still need to fill out the form 1 or form 4 along with the 5330.20, but you can skip the CLEO signature and the photo. is that for when you buy you NFA items or when you send in for your C&R? I was asking for when you send in for the C&R itself My response was related to a NFA corp transfer. If you request a C&R application, they will send you the required application paperwork. |
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also if file for a C&R as an LLC, do you only need to send in form F 5330.20? You will still need to fill out the form 1 or form 4 along with the 5330.20, but you can skip the CLEO signature and the photo. is that for when you buy you NFA items or when you send in for your C&R? I was asking for when you send in for the C&R itself My response was related to a NFA corp transfer. If you request a C&R application, they will send you the required application paperwork. /\ this guy know his stuff! Call me anytime Bret....ESPECIALLY if the ATF leaves a present for me at your door! 
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Eric
Not trying to dispute your word, but where can I find definitive verbage concerning a trust holding NFA items in Missouri. The reason I'm asking is that I've been told that there are several individuals in my area that are going the trust route for NFA and are not having any problems. Thanks Darren |
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Things change. But in the past the ATF's legal department has disallowed a bunch of Trust/C&R MO NFA applications. The hitch comes when their lawdogs say a Trust is not a legal entity that can hold a FFL while persons, companies and corporations can. And since in MO one is required to hold a FFL in order to own NFA items.........
So, if one simply wants to do it for NFA purposes, the LLC route has to date usually been an easier route. |
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Things change. But in the past the ATF's legal department has disallowed a bunch of Trust/C&R MO NFA applications. The hitch comes when their lawdogs say a Trust is not a legal entity that can hold a FFL while persons, companies and corporations can. And since in MO one is required to hold a FFL in order to own NFA items......... So, if one simply wants to do it for NFA purposes, the LLC route has to date usually been an easier route. Eric, Thanks for the response!! |