[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Pulled over by LEO while CCW (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 9/28/2008 7:36:27 PM EDT
OK, I have had my CCW for almost a year now.  I have not been pulled over once, but my neighbor who got his CCW the same time as me has three times......  He shared his experiences with me and that got me wondering. He said the LOE's would DISSARM him, Frisk him, and set his gun back on the Patrol car and leave him standing there spread out on his truck! I thought this sounded wrong. I can not find any solid info in regards to this besides letting a LEO know you have a CCW and if you are carrying or not at the time. Any info would be great. Kent |
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I've been pulled over, handed the highway patrol man my license, military ID and Florida Non-resident CCW. He smiled and gave me a warning for No front plates, expired plates, windows tinted to dark (5%), 10 MPH over, expired proof of insurance (found my new one in my wallet while he was calling me in), and no vehicle inspection sticker. Never ask about my CCW which was on my hip and a BUG in my pocket. What can I say, I had a lot on my plate last year and kinda let the car thing slide... lucky for me he was feeling very, very generous.
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Pulled over once on my way home from fishing at Longview Lake at 2am. Hands on the wheel, dome light on, and handed him my DL, insurance card, and my CWL. He was polite as can be, asked if I was currently carrying or had anything to drink, and went back to his car. Came back 5 minutes later after his partner watched me through the passenger backseat window and gave me a warning and told me to have a nice night. |
That's not a crime. I do inspections, and the sticker is really not necesary. If you've got your current inspection sheet with your registration, there's nothing they can say about not having a sticker. Hell, my windshield broke, it was replaced, and the sticker was destroyed attempting to remove it from the old window. 
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Do you think there is something your neighbor is not mentioning as to why he was pulled over three times? 
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Not all were regular pull overs. One speeding, one leaving his brights on, and one he called the cops when he was hit in a parking lot. So I do not think he was hiding any info. |
Officer Discretion/officer safety. If the officer feels safer to disarm you during their interaction with you, they can. Some are like that, but most I have encountered on ride-alongs don't care if you are up front with them. |
Would you like an LEO perspective? It may sound like it sucks to be disarmed, but that is all a matter of safety. In my line of work, you do not play anyone cheap. Yes, you might be the nicest guy in the world, but I still want to go home to my family at the end of the shift. I am ALWAYS going to put the balance in my favor. No disrespect to you intended or implied. A few minutes of your time should not inconvenience you too much. I try to end each encounter with a smile from both sides, especially when a CCW is involved, because we are on the same team. CIAO. |
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With all due respect, Kujoe, the average officer out there is an not at all an expert when it comes to gun knowledge. You are most likely (since I've never met you) an exception to that rule. For most cops, their sidearms is simply another 2 pounds hanging on their Sam Browne. Since some are trying to use safety as the reason for the unneccessary extra gun handling, do you really think, and are you really trying to convince me, that same average officer is the best person to be playing with your loaded gun? Especially since the average officer might well be completely unfamiliar with the model? I consider myself pretty knowledgeable, but there are many makes of gun that I have no idea at all about their manual-at-arms, save for recognizing the trigger and the shoulder thing that goes up.  C'mon, Kujoe, it's a load of crap and you know it. The driver produced his permit, as required by law, and that right there should tell the officer that he is in the presence of a good citizen. Unless the state is in the habit of issuing permits to bad people. |
| When I got pulled over on the 4th of July I was carrying. This was one of the first times I'd had it on me and I go and get pulled over. My mind was racing wondering if it'd come up. I didn't say anything and neither did he. He was just writing tickets and didn't even ask for proof of insurance. |
We have arrested 10 people this summer with CCW permits from everything from active warrants to assault. I have over two dozen individuals with questionalble mental stabilty that we know obtained a CCW permit because that have a beef with the police. There is a right way and wrong way to conduct a traffic stop with a CCW involved that will not piss off or show lack of respect to the CCW holder, but assuming that everyone with a CCW permit is a good guy is playing it cheap. I |
Well, I can only speak from experience. Even if one is unfamiliar with the gun in question, keeping one's finger outside the trigger guard should solve the handling of the gun problem. As far as just producing a permit makes everything ok, I again point to experience. If you are pulled over in my town or any town for that matter, for a traffic violation, technically I can arrest you for that charge. Said gun then gets "impounded." But I am not concerned about minor traffic violations in my capacity or disarming the good guys. I am looking to get the bigger fish... drugs, illegal guns, stolen cars and property, etc.... In the last year, I have arrested two individuals who had a CCW. Let's just say that some controlled substances were involved. If I had not taken that extra step to continue the investigation... seemingly good guy/bad guy would have walked. Like I said, I never play anyone cheap. When you do, n my line of work, that is when someone gets killed. I'm good at what I do, but I do understand that people are very protective of their rights, and I am protective of them as well. I'm only saying that when encountering the police in a pull over senario, you have to understand the mentality of the police man. Gun = Threat. Eliminate gun, eliminate threat. That's it. I cannot speak for others out there who use their power in an uncivil manner. Every profession has those people. My partner and I conduct business in this way: I respect you until you give me a reason not too, and we expect the same from others. If an officer removes what they feel is a threat during the interaction and that puts them at ease, fine by me. The gun will come back to you and you will be on your merry way, and you are only out a couple minutes of your time. |
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Another LEO perspective... It really is officer discretion. If I decide to disarm a CCW permit holder during our encounter I have not infringed anyone's rights. At night, which is when I work, you can bet your farm that I will be removing the firearm from you while we conduct the business at hand. Just because your a CCW holder dosen't mean you are immune to having a bad day where you might have snapped and off'ed somebody, I never know and its in MY best interest to stack the deck in my favor so to speak. As for not all officers being gun savey...well I am and I only speak for me. Bottom line, if a LEO disarms you during your encounter, don't be pissed, don't cry, don't complain. In fact, try complimenting the officer on his officer safety skills and you might be even more inclined to get off with just a warning. My .02 cents. |
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Sir Robert Peel's Nine Principles -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. The basic mission for which the police exist is to prevent crime and disorder. 2. The ability of the police to perform their duties is dependent upon public approval of police actions. 3. Police must secure the willing co-operation of the public in voluntary observance of the law to be able to secure and maintain the respect of the public. 4. The degree of co-operation of the public that can be secured diminishes proportionately to the necessity of the use of physical force. 5. Police seek and preserve public favour not by catering to public opinion but by constantly demonstrating absolute impartial service to the law. 6. Police use physical force to the extent necessary to secure observance of the law or to restore order only when the exercise of persuasion, advice and warning is found to be insufficient. 7. Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence. 8. Police should always direct their action strictly towards their functions and never appear to usurp the powers of the judiciary. 9. The test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with it. My how the times have changed, on both sides of the Thin Blue Line.  |
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I have the feeling this thread is going to turn out great!!1 IBHO (In my brutal opinion), keep your grubby mits off my personal protection. If an officer stops me for a moving violation, he has no business asking for my weapon, plain and simple. That being said, I've never been even asked about my CCW endorsement. |
Other agencies officers have firearms, do you disarm them? |
The problem is that MANY CCW holders feel that it is a Right to have a CCW. When in fact, it is a privilege. its not just a right hat is given by being an American. My take is that these officers have the right to treat you how they feel when they pull you over, short of seizing the gun and bringing charges against you. If they feel it is safe to ask you to step out and spread em, then that is their call. Put yourself behind their shield (Do their job) and see what you feel then. and NO because the Cop has a gun does not make him a threat. That is a Capitol Offense and chance are you will be the one dying, not the cop. It is this mentality that plays into the hands of the Anti Gunners/Anti CCW crowd. |
What, not submitting to the will and whim of the Officer? 
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Chris Rock explains "How not to get your ass kicked by the police!" Video |
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Calm down and take a DEEP breath...................................... First of all, any time an Officer pulls you over he MIGHT decide to handcuff you for his safety and for your safety. (That is the correct terminology taught at the Academy) Second, I've been pulled over by MHP and the Trooper asked for me to place my weapon slowly on the dash until he was finished. Being polite to the Officer will get you a long way, "Bulling up" is NEVER a good idea. Oh, and BTW. I fully support CCW for anyone who is NOT "mental" or a convicted Felon. PursuitSS |
| as a civilian that has the utmost respect for our law inforcement, isn't it funny that as a civillian with a ccw, and yes i carry everyday, that you could SNAP AND KILL EVERYBODY IN SIGHT! on a moment notice if he has a bad day! but we never worry about a cop going crazy and killing dozens of people. |
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So if I'm speeding and get pulled over with a CCW that gives police a right to disarm me and search me? That seems like a accident/lawsuit waiting to happen. So if you guys pull me over carrying and Im also wearing my team MO t-shirt will you still pull me out and remove my pistol? Edit- I will say this. If I pulled somebody over and they have a ccw but I was feeling a bad vibe or something didnt seem right I would get them out and disarm, but the average guy that is respectful and polite from the get go I wouldnt mess with. |
NO FAIR! HOW COME YOU GOT YOUR TSHIRT AND I HAVEN'T GOTTEN MINE YET?! Just kidding Ed. |
Eric, I guess there are many questions that I cannot answer well enough for folks to understand, because you have not shared the same experiences that I have. I have heard many people give the "I was on a ride along..." answer and that still does not answer the questions. How many of you have been on a ride along in some of the worst areas in the country? North St. Louis City for instance? And then there is the question of what happened during those ride alongs? From experience, most people that go on ride alongs do not see the real shit because the driver of the car either does not want to show them anything, or the ride along is given to a "do nothing" so that little to nothing will happen while the civilian is in the car. Of course, someone is going to say... why, what are you trying to hide? Well, suffice to say that many of you live in the happy ignorant place (a place that I sometimes wish I still lived in) of what happens on the streets with the police. If there is a civ in my car (and has only happened once), I am not going to be as aggressive as I usually am because I don't want to get into a situation where I am suddenly chasing someone either on foot or in the car with an untrained policeman in the car. It's just bad mojo. As far as disarming others? I can count on one hand how many times I have pulled over other agency people who were armed. One was a sheriff deputy in full uniform. The other was a security guard. Sheriff was sent on his way (I know ya'll will hate to hear why so I won't say it). Security guard was disarmed in the same manner as everyone else because something was not right about the situation. Everything turned out fine and he was sent on his way. But guys, come on. There are just some things that you will not be able to understand. And one more thing... I saw a recent comment in this thread indicating an us vs. you attitude... I don't know how to answer that so I'll leave it alone. It's kind of like arguing religion.... it just won't make any difference what I say. |
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Kujoe, you have my full support and appreciation for the job you do. Cops, teachers, fire fighters and soldiers all need serious pay raises. Oh, so do Pharmacy Buyers. But please understand how the rest of us feel when we hear stories of a guy being disarmed of his legal CCW weapon during a simple traffic stop because the officer felt like it, for whatever reason. I know, I know, there ain't no such thing as a simple traffic stop. Blah blah blah. I have been disarmed once by a Deputy, and it was done with the utmost in professionalism on his part and courtesy on my part. It was also a great learning experience for both of us and in the end I was sent on my way. You stay safe out there. |
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Actually, HHAMER, when it comes to CCW, there is this part of the US constitution you should be aware of. Generally referred to as the Second Amendment, it states the following: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." Note it does not say: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, provided said arms aren't covered by a shirt." So when people think they have a right to CCW while citizens of the United States of America... As for the rest of this thread, I have had police officers disarm me while CCW'ing twice. Both incidents almost resulted in an ND of my 1911 as the officer improperly handled the handgun. Honestly, who sets a loaded gun down on a table in front of a suspect with the muzzle pointing straight at someone on the other side of the counter? Who sets it there 1.5 feet from the person that you just disarmed, still loaded, in a counter in front of them? Jesus, it's faster to get whip it off the counter than from concealment!!!!!! !!!! If you feel that a CCW holder is a threat to you and decide to disarm them, you sure as hell should handcuff them too! /rant off. |
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| I have been pulled over a couple times since getting my CCW. Once nothing was said about it, and the other time the officer simply asked about it. Neither time was the officer unprofessional enough to search me or disarm me. Since I am a normal guy with a permit and no criminal record. |
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Kujoe is right...most people cannot understand the way an officer evaluates citizen encounters because they have never been on our side of the encounter. The simple fact is this: It is NOT a violation of anyone's rights for an officer to disarm a CCW holder during an encounter-traffic stop or otherwise, so that is a moot point. Secondly, as I said before, it is all up to officer discretion. If I see the CCW endorsement and your being cool during the stop, I'm not likely to disarm you. In fact I might want to shoot the shit with you for a minute about your carry piece because I'm interested. However, I can disarm you if I so choose, and that is MY RIGHT as an officer according to SCOTUS (Terry v. Ohio). |
That question I can't answer. However I believe the Officer is already privy to that information through the MULES system before he ever gets out of his cruiser. Or do I owe the man an apology?
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I was under the impression that you don't have to volunteer the information, but have to produce a CCW permit if asked to. |
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Ok, I'm somewhat suprised that the other LEO's/councelors didn't bring this up. And, to be fair, I will limit this to my specific experience to those I work with. When we (being LEO's in my jurisdiction) activate our lights and/or sirens to stop a driver, said driver has committed an offense. Once I (or LEO in my area) stop said driver, they are detained. That means I have sufficient probable (and articulated) cause to detain you. I have the right to remove you from your vehicle, handcuff you and investigate said offense (whatever it is) until I decide one of the following: 1.) Arrest you for the offense, take you to a department approved booking facility and charge you. I then can either hold you for bond, appearance before the judge/magestrate or issue you a summons which is, in effect releasing you on your signiture. 2.) Release you at the scene with a summons (see above) 3.) Release you with no further action. Simply completing a CCW course does not relieve you of the above possibilities. Previous postings target "rogue" police officers and address the fact that there is no way to completely "vette" bad officers. Completing a CCW course does not make you a "good guy" anymore than completing a LEO academy makes you one. Procedures vary, andy while you may not like it an officer may after determining you are CCW: A.)Separate you from your weapon B.)Handcuff you C.)Do nothing and send you on your way. You may not like this; I won't argue with that as it is personal conviction. You may say it's not legal - - Challenge it in court. I understand that many of you may feel that this is overstepping the bounds of legality. To be honest, I dont care. I see time and time again that many who post here would rather carry their gun regardless of signs stating "prohibited" because its better to be "judged by 12 then carried by 6". Well, I (and those I train) would prefer not to be a statistic of a CCW gone wrong. -----> FLAME ON <------- |
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Ok, this was some what an interesting read, but the bashing got a little old. Yet I do have a little problem being patted down if I was up front with the officer. Let me ask the officers in the HTF a question. Lets say I was pulled over, doing 5 or 10 miles over the limit on a stretch of hiway with a posted 70MPH limit. So, the officer ask if I am armed (I do not believe I have seen where you have to inform). I answer truthfully "Yes I am officer and here is my MO permit". He ask me to step out and makes me spread them. Then removes my weapon from my IWB holster. Maybe I am cuffed "for his safety". Ok so plates and drivers lic is ran and all comes back GTG. Maybe he warns me, maybe he tickets me. But here is the question and I have to say that I have taken this all well. How does the officer return my pistol? Does he clear it and hand me the components? Does it place it in the back seat or in the glove compartment? What could one expect? thanks guys (officers) Max |
Well, I'll only tell you what I have done. If I pull it off your person, I'll place it on the passenger seat with the muzzle facing in a safe direction. If it find it in the glove box, I put it back the way I found it. I will not hand you a loaded gun. I'll put it down and let you do with it as you please. But I place it in the car on the passenger seat out of respect to you. Who knows who is watching, especially in the neighborhood I ride in. If I'm giving you back a gun, I don't want everyone else to know that I just gave you back the strap (and I don't want everyone to see that you have one), so you can continue to hide it the way you see fit. People appreciate that I do it that way so it removes the possiblilty of an awkward handoff. If I find it loaded, you get it back loaded. |
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I am amazed at some of the reactions in this thread. Is it too much to ask to allow an officer to feel safe while doing his/her job (a great community service) that already has inherent dangers. After all, if you have been pulled over for something, you are not as innocent as you would like to believe. For the record, if I am ever pulled over while carrying, you will see the vehicle off, window down, dome light on, and both hands on the steering wheel and you will get a simple "I am legally carrying a concealed weapon. What do you want me to do?" |
One can be stopped by LEO and never have committed any offense. To say otherwise is plain BS. You are very wrong to have said that someone must have committed an offense to be stopped and I have something to say about it.  Never assume why you are being stopped. Many years ago in South Carolina there was a serial killer named Larry Gene Bell (google it) who was kidnapping young girls every other Friday afternoon. The guy was fat, white and between 25 and 35 years old with a beard who drove a white two-door car. He would torture the girls for a week and then terrorize their families by calling and witting them the next week. What was not made public at the time was the fact that he was attending the girls funerals. His victims aged around 19 and 8 years old. The youngest girl's funeral was held at a church two blocks from my house. Take a guess which fat 24 year old white guy with a beard in a white two-door car drove by the church during the funeral and committed no offense but was stopped by LEO four blocks away. I was pulled out of the car through the driver's side window and dragged across the ground while every damned gun on the planet was poked in my face. I still have the scars on my elbows and knees from this encounter. I also have emotional scars as well. I would be dead if I had done anything other than be passive. Your time to be Billy bad @ss is in the courtroom and not on the side of the road. |
Wrong. |
Well unfortunantly for you, you fit the discription of a wanted person. True you may not have committed a traffic offense, but the traffic stop was legal on the grounds that the officers had reasonable suspicion to believe that you may have been involved in a crime. Sometimes thats just the way it is. Happened just the other day here with me. There was a bank robbery and the information was the suspect was a middle aged white guy who left drivng a red pick-up truck. Guess what, I'm on my way to the bank and I see a red pick up being driving by a middle aged white guy and I stopped him...wasent the right guy, but nonetheless the stop was legal and so was the detention of the driver until I determined he was not the suspect, at which time I apologized for any inconvience and sent him on his way... |