Posted: 3/12/2007 12:31:50 PM EDT
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Hello all. I finally decided to get my CCW license. I planned on getting my Missouri license, but according to packing.org, it seems the Florida permit is valid in more states. I have a few questions for those Missouri residents that currently have their Florida permit. 1: Have you ever had to show your Florida license to an officer? If so, did you get any crap about not having a Missouri issued license? 2. I was told here on the forums a while ago that a Hunter's Education Certificate was enough 'proof of training' for the Florida permit. Is this true? 3. What is the difference between any given state 'honoring' a permit versus 'reciprocity'? Thanks for your help! `45 |
I have a Utah permit, but have never had to show it, so I can't help you there. The difference between simple "honoring" vs "reciprocity" is a matter of formality. Missouri recognizes any state's CCW permit, without any formal agreements in place. Some states only honor permits from states they have a formal reciprocity agreement with. (Missouri honors every other states CCW permit, but those states do not necessarily honor the MO permit.) |
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As another piece of advice, some states such as KS do not recognize out of state permits unless you are also a resident of that state ( A MO resident with a FL permit cannot carry in KS even though KS recognizes the FL permit). I am not sure what other states do this, but there are probably more. This is what led me to get a MO CCW. 
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Tella100, just why are you so strongly encouraging people to get a Mo. permit versis say a Fla. permit? When someone feels so strongly I like to hear why they feel that way. See, the Mo permit cost more and has a shorter life span than the Fla. permit. Also I do not need to go and spend another 100 or so bucks for a day long class. From what I understand the Fla. permt ask for a hunters class or a DD214 which I happen to have. |
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I've said it before and I'm going to say it again. And I'm sure I'm going to get ignored again. But I have to say it. Police chiefs, judges, and politicians across the state are upset at the number of Missouri residents who are choosing to circument the Missouri CCW system by getting out-of-state permits and relying on reciprocity to make their carrying of concealed weapons legal. The MO system was set up as a money-raising scheme to provide extra funds to law enforcement, and the way they look at it, each MO resident who gives his money to Utah or Florida effectively takes money away from MO cops. I don't care how YOU look at it, this is how THEY look at it and THEY make the rules, and they are not happy. One day a MO resident will be arrested on a CCW and will go to court saying that his Utah permit has to be honored by Missouri. At least some courts are just waiting to rule that Missouri residents must acquire their CCW endorsements in the state where they reside, with a rebuttable presumption that they went outside the MO system because they knew they could not pass Missouri's requirements. If you think a ruling like this is beyond the fiat of what the courts could rule, you are gravely mistaken; they are allowed to make determinations like that all the time. Missouri residents are bound to obey Missouri statutes, and when a MO resident is the party in question, those statutes take precedence over the full faith and credit afforded to the laws of other states. Put it this way, lets say instead of a gun store I run a smoke shop convenience store that sells cartons of cigarettes, and a certain quantity of cigs costs $100 with all the Missouri taxes but only $50 with Utah taxes. I run over to Utah, buy $50 of cigarettes and sell them here, pocketing the saved $50. I've followed all Utah laws and Missouri has to recognize them so I tell everyone I'm in the clear. Well I'm not. The situation isn't totally analagous to CCW permits because of the Contraband Cigarette Act, but the concept is the same. The courts or legislature just haven't articulated a "Contraband CCW" type precedent as of 2007, but that's only because they haven't had a case put before them yet. If or when a ruling like that occurs, two things will happen. First, the unlucky person who was arrested will be convicted and will have his firearms rights taken away when he becomes a felon. He will bitch and moan about how unfair it is, like every other convicted felon, and we will feel sorry for him and post about it here and otherwise do nothing, because the bottom line is, the power isn't in our hands. Second, every smartiepants who patted himself on the back for saving $50 and having a permit that lasts five years instead of three will find himself carrying a now useless piece of paper and unable to CCW until he spends the $100 and takes that long 8 hour course. Ignore me and do whatever you want. I'm not an expert, just a young lawyer trying to find enough work to pay my way out of my student loans. But in my limited experience, everytime you think you have the system beat and you're oh so clever for figuring out how to screw the man, remember this: the man realizes he's being screwed too, and sooner or later he's going to put a stop to it with all the authority that he has and you don't. And you'd better hope that it isn't you that he comes down on. |
My reasoning is, lets say to get stopped, searched, detained, or actually have to use your CCW, regardless of the conditions though, If I have a MO permit, stamped on my MO DL, in the MO state system, there is no doubt w/ the police, sheriff, or DA that my permit is infact valid and honored by Missouri. Do you think that Junior Assistant Deputy Sheriff Cletus P. Knownothing in Shitstaain Springs Missouri knows your Insertotherstatehere permit is legal in Missouri? Does he understand reciprocity? Does he understand that you as a nonresident of Insertotherstatehere can legally procure a valid CCW license from Insertotherstate here without being a resident? Not to disparage our law enforcement officers, but they are not required to know this, so could very well have a bad day/week/month because of this. You could sit and await trial for your lawyer to argue to the judge what the law says about non-resident permits and such, possibly waisting a great deal of your time, reputation, and money. Or you could just get the MO permit spend alittle more money outright and a shorter period, and be 100% assured that you will not bunk above a child rapist while your lawyer gets things sorted out for you. |
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We interrupt this program to bring you this public service announcement.... Not to argue with anyone... but I think if one wants to carry concealed then one needs to get the permit from their locale... If one wishes to get a permit from every state that offers one then so be it but get the permit for your state of residence.... We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.... Oh did I mention that I don't carry concealed? Ever? |
I just want to make a couple of things clear: I wasn't trying to save money, or take the easy route training wise. I just wanted the best license for my needs (the one that is valid in the states I travel). In fact, until now, I was not even aware that the FL license was less expensive and lasted longer. If FL accepted my Hunter's Ed certificate, that was just another plus...but not something that would sway me one way or the other. Another day at the range is always a good time.  That being said, can anyone recommend a good instructor in the Saint Louis metro area? Thanks again for the info. `45 |
Duke, and BaNo. Thank you both gentlemen. I have been educated. Sorry Duke my friend, I can troubleshoot an electric problem doing circles around your head. But when it comes to legal stuff, well, I bow down to you,  and differ to your wisdom. We both are ignorant of different things and I am so glad that you took time to explain it to me and others who benifited from your knowledge. BaNo, thanks also for you taking time to explain it to us from your point of view.Well looks like I need to save up a few bucks and get to school and then get the Sheriff to sign off on my permit. Got to amitt that no class and less cash and for longer direction does sound good. |
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IMO, if you choose to use an out-of-state permit, then you should atleast have all the requirements needed to suffice for a MO license. I understand that it is easier to just use a hunter's education card, but I want to abide by the standards that MO has for it's CCW holders. |
Oh yeah, I've got a NH CCW Permit too, cause it was only 20.00.  For me, it wasnt to circumvent the "MO system". I've had my FL CCW for 8+ years due to visiting relatives in FL and later in AR, and this was way b4 we had CCW here in MO. When the MO CCW was approved, the classes were 150.00-200.00, plus the 100.00 for the lic itself. there was also the issue of did I want to have this info publicly listed on my Drivers License??? Would I want to publicize that I'm carrying or be "eye raped" each time I showed my Driv Lic at the bank, grocery store, mall, etc. There just wasnt much of an advantage for ME. Now that the MO permit is recognized dang near everywhere and especially in KS, and in today's world, writing checks/showing ID is very rare, I will be getting a MO CCW, prob w/a separate ID. When's the Holden CCW class?? scottMO |
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Look guys Duke is right, would you rather spend the $100 and be safe or be cheap and then pay your lawyer $1000s extra to defend yourself in court. You can hope you get a pro gun DA and Pro gun Judge, but you may get Janet Reno. Then not to start a war, but that is the same reason I have a glock with an NY1 trigger and I have ammo in my carry gun that is used by LEO agencys. It is more defendable in court. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Just my .02 |
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A question for those of you who have your CCW # on the top of your MO Driver's Lic: When asked for ID by a non LEO (bank teller, Car dealership, etc), do you: Hand over your ID like normal? Show the ID through your wallet "window" which covers up the CCW markings? Take out your DL but cover the CCW info with a strategically placed thumb?? Has anyone seemed to notice the CCW # and it's significance? Said anything positive? Negative? Just curious as I've never had to deal w/that issue. scottMO |
And no comments either way. I try not to show my ID regardless, I don't use checks(foul outdated technology) and rarely use credit. Most of my transactions are debit, thus no ID required. |
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45JHP: To answer your question about training in the St. Louis area: John Ross. I'll go get a live link for you. Here you go: John Ross On the CCW on your DL issue. You can get a separate CCW ID in Missouri. JUst costs a bit more at the license bureau. Just as valid, and you aren't flashing your ccw when you show someone your DL. |
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Dukes right on the money on this one. i think allot of state officials and govt types are upset with the way the people of this state our doing on the out of state thing. i also think its sad. i mean we fought hard to get our state version. we need to use it. now for the people in stl and Kc that didn't have the option for awhile, well i can see why you did it. But i wonder if it will come back and bite us if you don't get the Mo also. if you don't want to get it on the DL get it on the state non Dl this way you save money since the ccw expires quicker and you wont be renewing your DL every time you get your CCw. and you get a extra form of ID when you need 2 plus you don't have to worry abut other people seeing the endorsement. i know i am going get flamed on this but if your using your hunters safety course as the thing to say that your ccw trained.....well your doing us all a injustice! those course our a joke. i mean lets see the movie of the two idiots that shoot into the trees to kill the tree rats...that doesn't fly with the ccw thing. half the battle of the course is the law that goes with it. like Duke said the first person that has a out of state permit and used a hunter safety from Mo as the Yes i am qualified... well once you get your butt convicted and then sewed i think all of us gun owners should then be able to beat you. your not doing us any favors. if thats the only traing your getting your not ready to carry! i am leaving it at that. flame away if you want. Ronald |
This is not a flame but that right there is EXACTLY the damn reason this all got started anyway. Had Clay County not been one of those counties waiting to see if anyone would make them begin the process I'd be sitting here with a MO permit right now. No, instead they fucked around until an election pressed the issue and then suddenly they could figure out how to manage to accept applications. Duke may very well be right. I do in fact now plan to get a MO CCW because of the Kansas issue but if they don't like the outcome I have a suggestion. ABIDE BY THE GOD DAMNED LAW and do what the people's elected officials tasked you to do without throwing a tantrum. If I had been able to walk into the Clay County Sheriff's office and turn in my application I would have. However, I couldn't, so I didn't. |