Posted: 1/16/2015 5:09:11 PM EDT
| I was pulled over for rolling through a stop sign early summer and have been wondering something ever since....... I have two guns both locked in safes in my truck, when I was pulled over I let the office know I had a gun locked up in the center console (have my carrying permit, don't care about if I needed to inform him, etc.). I don't recall exactly but at first he wanted to gun brought out (can't recall if he wanted to get it or have me) but when I told him I'd have to get the key out of my pocket he said never mind..... Long story long, being locked up would I have to comply or would a warranty technically be needed? |
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The real answer is don't talk to the police; give him your license etc. when asked and don't volunteer anything. Where go are going etc is none of their business. Never give them consent. ^This. If you tell them you have a firearm, and the officer wants you to hand it over, nothing good is going to come of you refusing or telling him he needs a warrant. The courts will side with him on grounds of officer safety. Keep your trap shut, hand him your info, and be on your way. |
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As a cop if you informed me that you had a firearms in your car and produced a valid permit to carry which I could/can verify via computer then I would need some other incident, furtive movement, presence of narcotics or paraphernalia etc to search your car. If they didn't inform you, you would still need another reason to search the car, as the presence of a firearm itself doesn't give PC for a search. |
| Locked up and in secured container = heightened expectation of privacy. He could always arrest then do an inventory search subsequent to arrest, but that could land him in civil suit trouble if you were so inclined. Either keep your mouth shut about it or be prepared to lawyer up if the issue is pressed. YMMV. |
| The few times I've been pulled over I've always just handed my carrying permit over with my license, thought process begin is I rather it just be known than say leaning over and possibly having the officer freak out catching a glimpse of a handgun.... considering I'm not a criminal ultimately I'd probably just comply if they asked for me to get them out, I was just curious if under the law I had to without a warrant being they are locked up. |
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After a bad experience with Sellersburg's finest in 1997 I will never volunteer that I have a gun. I think they a better dept. now but then they were severe thugs then. That's the problem, you don't know which ones are the thugs and they have the ability to fuck your life up in just one night. One of the first things a veteran officer told me when I started working for SBPD was don't volunteer any information at a traffic stop if it's not your own department because you don't know which guy has a beef with someone at your agency. Fortunately I never had to deal with it up there. Down here I got a job in corrections and got pulled over for a "Hey, who are you what are you doing here?" stop, literally all he wanted to know was why I was driving through a bar parking lot during closing time. I stupidly volunteered where I worked and he called my supervisor and shit talked and I got canned during my probationary period even though I didn't get a ticket or do anything. The prison was closing and the company was trying to get a contract extension with the state so the warden didn't want any 'bad publicity'. |
| Was worth the watch, so a new question.... can anyone direct me to what's required for being pulled over in a vehicle? As in what do I have to comply with, is there anything that absolutely has to happen or is everything based on what they ask? So if they ask for license and registration I must comply. I guess where I'm slightly confused is the video pretty much says don't talk, is it more so don't offer any additional information? I'm assuming if they ask if I have a weapon in the vehicle if I don't respond they then can search? I think this thread is helping me change my opinion on being pulled over but to what I'm not sure. |
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Hand over the license, registration, and proof of insurance if asked, of course. Past that, I stay polite, but would never volunteer any information. I've never been asked if I have a weapon in the car, but if the LEO were to ask, I'd tell the truth and let him know I have a lifetime CWP. I'd never voluntarily agree to a search though, even if there's absolutely nothing in the vehicle. The officer would have to make the decision whether or not he wants to take it to the next level. |
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Google Michigan v Long. It was a SCOTUS case regarding the search of a vehicle as an extension of Terry v Ohio. It gives LEOs fairly broad latitude to search a vehicle for weapons. Telling an officer that there are weapons in the vehicle will make meeting the requirements of Michigan v Long pretty easy from a legal standpoint so the answer is that in most circumstances if the officer is aware of a weapon, whether you tell them or they see one, they could search your vehicle for weapons without consent.
I have not seen a case involving a locked container in the context of Michigan v Long but if you or anyone in the vehicle has the key or combination, or the officer reasonably believes you do, an argument could be made. Personally, I would not bother if someone was an LTCH holder and informed me of it to begin with. I run across permit holders that are carrying on a fairly regular basis and once they tell me I thank them and get on with the business I'm stopping them for. This doesn't mean every officer you deal with will handle it this way, officers are people and their attitudes vary regarding firearms. As for recommendations, an Officer running your license will see that you have permit. I recommend letting them know as I prefer to know and I have never had someone volunteer the information and then try to hurt me in any way. It isn't required to inform the officer, but f he asks I strongly recommend against lying. If you aren't a pathological liar it is very likely the officer will know you are lying (normal people aren't good at it and cops are good and smelling lies) and if someone lies to me about having a firearm it will put me on very high guard. |
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Can other state's police see an Indiana carry permit when they run an Indiana license? I don't think so but I'm not sure. Some states have it as a field on the drivers license return and it can be seen in any state it is run. In Indiana it is a separate return that comes automatically when I run a DL so I don't believe it will pop up out of state but I can't say that with 100% certainty. |
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The fact that you advised the Police officer that you had a gun, he would have the right to verify you have a carry permit. I would have asked you for your permit since the gun is locked up. If it was valid and it is yours, I would have simply let you go. If he wanted you to produce the gun, then that is a different story. If you said nothing, then there would be no question. In this great State of Indiana, no permit is needed if the firearm is unloaded and locked away with the intentions of either going to a gun range or to a gunsmith for repairs. If the gun is loaded and in a position of quick use (self protection) then a permit would be required. As for a search, either by permission by operator or PC (for example: marijuana odor) or a search warrant.
I am currently a 17yr veteran (so far) Indiana sworn Police Officer and I agree, do not agree to a search. If they have enough PC to believe something is illegal, then a search warrant would be obtained. Unless you are a criminal, then disregard what I just said...LOL. He more than likely felt it was not worth the hassle to have you get the key and retrieve it. Every carry permit holder needs to understand that if a police officer has contact with you and you are found to possess a handgun with you (loaded and holstered, in carry fashion) he has the legal right to request your ID and permit to carry. Some believe that if you are not committing a crime then he/she has no authority. Actually you are committing a crime if you do not have a permit. The burden of proof of a valid permit is on the subject not the police officer. So if you are in a position that they ask for the 2 items (ID & permit), I recommend you do it. If you refuse or don't have it, then you can be charged with gun no permit, the gun is confiscated and the officer will petition the state to revoke your permit for life. It has happened. IC 35-47-21, Carrying of Handgun Without A License |
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Please quote the law that says you have to produce ID. There is no such law. Indiana's statute for failure to identify only applies to ordinance violation or infractions (traffic tickets). There's no law requiring you to carry ID when you are carrying your firearm. Also, they removed the section from the law requiring you to have your License to Carry a Handgun on you when you carry. Your information is a little obsolete.
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The fact that you advised the Police officer that you had a gun, he would have the right to verify you have a carry permit. I would have asked you for your permit since the gun is locked up. If it was valid and it is yours, I would have simply let you go. If he wanted you to produce the gun, then that is a different story. If you said nothing, then there would be no question. In this great State of Indiana, no permit is needed if the firearm is unloaded and locked away with the intentions of either going to a gun range or to a gunsmith for repairs. If the gun is loaded and in a position of quick use (self protection) then a permit would be required. As for a search, either by permission by operator or PC (for example: marijuana odor) or a search warrant. I am currently a 17yr veteran (so far) Indiana sworn Police Officer and I agree, do not agree to a search. If they have enough PC to believe something is illegal, then a search warrant would be obtained. Unless you are a criminal, then disregard what I just said...LOL. He more than likely felt it was not worth the hassle to have you get the key and retrieve it. Every carry permit holder needs to understand that if a police officer has contact with you and you are found to possess a handgun with you (loaded and holstered, in carry fashion) he has the legal right to request your ID and permit to carry. Some believe that if you are not committing a crime then he/she has no authority. Actually you are committing a crime if you do not have a permit. The burden of proof of a valid permit is on the subject not the police officer. So if you are in a position that they ask for the 2 items (ID & permit), I recommend you do it. If you refuse or don't have it, then you can be charged with gun no permit, the gun is confiscated and the officer will petition the state to revoke your permit for life. It has happened. IC 35-47-21, Carrying of Handgun Without A License |
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Also, you may carry a handgun unloaded, encased and not readily accessible for ANY reason in Indiana. Don't have to be going to the range or gunsmith. This law changed a few years ago. IC 35-47-2-1. Correct, this changed in 2013. They essentially de-criminalized the actions previously allowed under the hunting/target shooting permit and now no permit is required to transport a handgun at all provided it meets the specific restrictions of being case, unloaded, and inaccessible. To your previous post, you are correct there as well. There is no law in Indiana allowing an officer to demand a permit without cause for detention. Stopping someone just to check their permit status would be akin to stopping a car just to see if the driver was licensed even if they had committed no traffic violation. Now, if someone is stopped for any ordnance or infraction violation the officer can disarm them during the detention and require ID, which will allow them to check permit status. Officers can't just stop you for no reason other than possession of a gun. I put together some training on this at my department a few years ago and could find no case law in Indiana that dealt with this directly but there were several cases in other states where the courts agreed that detaining someone merely for the possession of a handgun, where possession was the only criteria for detention and the location where the gun was possessed was legal with a permit, was found to be illegal. |