Posted: 10/22/2007 4:25:08 PM EDT
| I seen a list somewhere but now I cant find it. I need to locate a C III dealer near Terre Haute. Also include any kind of reputation they might have. GO COLTS |
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Here are a couple from Subguns.com's recommended dealers list: www.subguns.com/c2c3/c3state.htm#Indiana |
If you are wanting to build an SBR from a lower you already currently have you need to simply file the correct forms to the ATF. You do not need a dealer to do anything for you to complete this, but you will need the correct forms which I have if you need them. You can also go to www.titleII.com and print them off yourself if you wish. Additionally, you will still be required to get LEO signoffs on the forms and passport photos taken. As for suppressors, I would suggest an M4-1000 made by AAC. They have a quick detach setup which makes it easy to use between different ARs and the new design looks really nice. Also, they are reasonably priced (around $500ish) and have a good level of suppression. Put all that together with a company that stands behind their products 100% and I think it is a great choice. It is not rated for full-auto fire, but you have stated that is doubtfully in your near future anyways. Either way, if I can do something for you by all means let me know  ETA: If you are wanting to buy a lower that is already registered as an SBR from an indidvidual in-state, you still do not need the assistance of a dealer to accomplish this; however, if you are wanting to buy a registered SBR from either a dealer or individual out of state you will need a dealer to do the transfer for you. I would highly suggest just having an existing lower that you already have turned into an SBR. |
I am pretty much going to go that way for my first one and do it under a Trust as well. The trust just looks like a no brainer way to go for me. As for that AAC can, that is a good price. Just curious, would it work well on a .22lr rifle as well? I am sure it would be overkill on a handgun but curious about using on .22lr in general. The QD set up is what makes me think it would be handy to use on all my rifles. |
Why is that? I always used to regard this as extra hassle in a jurisdiction like ours where the CLEO will sign, but more and more folks I know are going that way. I'm curious as to any other benefits, aside from not having do get the sign-off and photographs each time. For the benefit of the OP and others Registering an SBR on a Form 1 requires having the lower engraved with the maker's (your) name, city and state. If you're thinking about using a new lower as opposed to registering one you already have, you might consider buying it from the engraver in order to save some shipping. Orion Arms www.orion-arms.com in MN does great engraving work, and stocks DPMS lowers pretty inexpensively ($105.00 when I got mine). Pay him for the lower and the engraving, and have him ship the engraved lower to your dealer when it's completed. Disclaimer: I don't speak for Orion Arms in any capacity other than as a satisfied customer.   The lower pic would be representative of the location and size of the SBR engraving. |
1) Spend the money on the M4-2000, when I see you next time I will tell you why. 2) Yes, you can shoot .22lr thru a .223 can, but..... A) It will not perform as well as a purpose built .22lr can. B) .22lr is dirty and will leave lead and other wastes in the can, you can combat this by firing a few .223 rounds thru the "warm" can to blow out some of the crud. 3) Using the QD mounts on a .22lr rifle=OK, but using the QD mounts on a pistol=ugly. 4) Using a can the size of a M4-1000 on a pistol will suck, you won't be able to see your sights and it will be very heavy. MrCornbread, don't be cheap in this purchase, for the .223 can I suggest you get the M4-2000 and not the M4-1000. Again, I will tell you why when I see you next time. Then get yourself a dedicated .22lr can, I really like my Stratus, it is a good inexpensive can, but there are really alot of good, and inexpensive, .22lr cans on the market right now, you just need to figure out what features you want. If I can be of any help with what you seek, just let me know. |
For a suppressor, or any NFA item really, that you buy from a C3 dealer will involve a form 4 transfer. The dealer you buy it from will walk you thru the process. Now, to build a SBR from a lower that you already own, this requires a form 1. The form 1 is a "making" application that is filled out very similar to a form 4, it requires the exact same steps as a form 4, you just don't need to use a dealer. |
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I had this problem with my last NFA purchase. Normally I would get my CLEO signoff's back in 5 working days, the last one took 30 days. However, I still don't like the trust route, too much hassle IMHO. |
I was skeptical of it at first. Then I got a copy of Willmaker, made up my trust in about a half-hour, got the trust and cert. of trust notarized and sent off my first F1 with the cert of trust that day. I got that one back in 30 days. Hell, I just bought a TI Quest from ACME and from the time I told them "I'll take it" to the time they put my paperwork in the mail to WV was about 3 days. That included me getting another copy of my cert. of trust notarized, getting a MO, and completing and sending the F4's to Seymour. For speed, you can't beat it! ETA: For what it costs to get the paperwork and fingerprints from IMPD plus the cost of a passport photo plus the cost of parking downtown, a copy of Willmaker pays for itself after one use! I got mine from Ebay for $19 shipped! Your bank will notarize your trust for free... |
Im kinda new at the whole SBD game. What is a CLEO? All of this info and technical talk of steps is a little intimidating. Can someone explain in lamin terms with maybe tech terms in () what steps to take to legalize a SBR. I am needing to register a lower I have. I think I'll need it engraved with my info. I am just getting alittle intimidated with the steps. Is it really a big hassle I'm sure at the end its worth it, but should I expect a big headache to get it done. I am kinda impatient myself.
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Thanks guys, great info on the cans. Nice engraving done by Orion and that gets it out of the way up front before yo do the SBR paper work. Why a trust? First it is no hassle at all to set up, compared to an LLC there are no annual fees, no tax return and no annual minutes/notes from officers meetings to file. No attorney needed. It MAY be that both people in the trust can handle and have access to any NFA items listed in the trust, same way all officers in a corp. that own NFA items can use them, as long as they are legally allowed to do so in the first place, AKA not a felon. Also, local LEO does not know what I own, only ATF. The less govt knows and has the better. Besides, these days all this govt data gets lost or "stolen" on employee laptops. Can you imagine a list of NFA items in the wrong hands! Plus, I have a fucking attitude about asking for permission to exercise my rights on top of paying a tax and getting signed off on by the ATF. So less time, less paperwork, less cost and I am in control. Yeah, trust works for me. (this attitude is even bigger than the one I was born with) NFA stuff aside, there are plenty of benefits to having trusts, as a single Dad who would never trust my Ex to manage my assets to my daughters benefit, I plan to have trusts set up to guide who in my family has control of what and for what purpose. We just need to keep sharing info, makes us all stronger. PC1 mentioned willmaker software. That was one I found in my research, I have not done it yet. When I do I will post exactly how I did it and the steps I followed. |
I will add this, it is the only way my Brother will ever get to have class three stuff in his home as CLEO never signs off, but it is legal in his state. Since his wife is FBI, if they do this, then you know it is a good way to go as she would never do anything iffy that would jeopardize her job. |
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info on trusts www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/businessmanagement/DF6313.html www.ilrg.com/forms/trustrev.html www.arizonagunlist.com/How_to_buy_NFA_class3_weapons_with_a_revocable_living_trust_without_a_CLEO_signoff.html |
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I have set up a corporation for Class III transfers. I live in an area where it would be no problem to get signoffs, but I wanted a corporation for the following reasons. 1. It is easy. I don't have to go bother the sheriff or get passport photos taken. 2. When I decide I want something, my Class III dealer (whom I also work for part-time) has a copy of my Corp. paperwork on file. If I want something, I buy it and start the paperwork that day. 3. I want to share posession of the weapons with other members of the trust. 4. Liability. I will, at any time, allow anyone that I believe to be a "reasonable" person shoot any of my NFA stuff. It could be a friend, a random guy at the range or shoot, etc. If they want to play, I let them. While I know that a situation resulting in injury should never arise, if something were to happen such as a kaboom or other accident, I do not personally own the weapon. Maybe this is just me being overprotective of myself, but 
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Good post, Craig. You did a good job of pointing out the .223 can on a .22lr dilemma. I do agree with you that the M4-2000 would be a better product, but it comes with a price (basically, you can by the M41K and have money for your tax stamp with what the M42K will cost you for just the can). Is the main reason why you recommend the M42K over the M41K have to do with the difference in the construction and materials of the can? Because my personal experience with them has been very positive. There are also a lot of other choices out there other than AAC. You can get excellent products from Gemtech, SRT, SWR, Tac Innovations, etc... I will offer this one bit of advice when it comes to a suppressor purchase and this may be what BIGCRAIG was getting at.....When you tie up that $200 in a tax stamp for a can you are essentially marrying it. The two of you will never become separated because you lose your butt if you try selling a used can. Therefore, since you will have it forever it is best that you buy right the first time. This isn't something that is easily upgraded so anyone saving up for a can should never, ever buy something just because it is cheaper. Do your research and get what you think is right for you. Also, if you decide that you ultimately want to shoot suppressed .22lr you really need to buy a dedicated .22 can. For how cheap you can pick up a quality .22 can, it is worth it. It will work so much better because of its lighter weight and compact size and it will keep your .223 can from getting the baffles caked up with carbon. Clint |
FWIW, a buddy of mine just got his most recent F4 signed in less than a week. Hopefully they've gotten their sh*t together again WRT the CLEO signature. Only took 'em what, a YEAR after the merger? Friggin bureaucracy. |