Posted: 4/10/2008 10:54:06 AM EDT
| As I understand it a spend shell casing is required for handguns but only when they are new. Used guns aren't expected to have one. That being said I'm about to buy a pistol off gunbroker and to the best of my knowledge it does not come with a shell casing even though it is new in box. Will this be an issue? Is it considered used because of the method of transfer or does it have to be owned by a private citizen before it's considered used? I will probably send my FFL an e-mail about it but thought I'd ask anyway. |
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Again, bad information. The ONLY time a new handgun has to contain a spent shell casing is when it is SHIPPED DIRECTLY FROM the MANUFACTURER. I have argued this and gone over this with my FFL's and they have in turn contacted the Maryland State Police to be certain. I have since bought many NEW handguns from out of state dealers without turning in spent shell casing, even if they shipped with the casings. Here is the law as it is written (in its entirety: 5-131. Handgun identification requirements. (a) Definitions. (1) In this section the following words have the meanings indicated. (2) "Manufacturer" means a person who possesses a federal license to engage in the business of manufacturing firearms or ammunition for sale or distribution. (3) "Projectile" means the part of handgun ammunition that is expelled through the barrel of the handgun by an explosion. (4) "Shell casing" means the part of handgun ammunition that contains the primer and propellant powder to discharge the projectile. (b) Manufacturer requirements. A manufacturer that ships or transports a handgun for sale, rental, or transfer in the State shall include in the box with the handgun in a separate, sealed container: (1) a shell casing of a projectile discharged from the handgun; and (2) additional information that the Secretary requires to identify the type of handgun and shell casing. (c) Actions by dealer. (1) On receipt of a handgun from a manufacturer, the dealer shall confirm to the Department of State Police that the manufacturer has complied with subsection (b) of this section. (2) On the sale, rental, or transfer of the handgun, the dealer shall forward the sealed container to the Department of State Police Crime Laboratory. (d) Crime Laboratory database. On receipt of a shell casing and information as required in subsection (b) of this section, the Department of State Police Crime Laboratory shall enter the information in each relevant database. Read section C, it clearly says the dealer must comply if they receive a gun from a "MANUFACTURER". Period. A handgun delivered to another state is not required to have a shell casing with it and therefore they can't be required to provide one to you. The law never intended to be so restrictive that it prevented you from buying from dealers outside Maryland. If it was the intention, you can be sure they would have spelled it out that way. You must read these laws like an attorney would. The law makers are extremely precise with their language. The law should be read the same way, precisely. We need to post this information as a STICKY because it comes up often in here. ETA Here is a link to MD Gun Laws on the ATF web site. See section 5-131. MODERATORS, PLEASE POST THIS AS A STICKY. |
What dealers will abide by this? Whenever I try to xfer a new handgun from an OOS dealer, I'm told "If this is a new handgun, a shell casing is required". I have had to bypass several good buys because of this. |
Our law makers are idiots and I have never been to a gunshop that will sell a new handgun, whether from another dealer or from a manufacturer, without the shell casing since it has become law. Hell, most online dealers won't ship handguns to Maryland. I can read this law as an attorney would and I can also read it as some asshat from the MSP who believes more in the intent of the law. Tell me which dealers will accept a new handgun without a shell casing if I show them the annotated code. I want to order a couple of 1911s sans casing. |
I have bought many a handgun from right here off the Equipment exchange, Gunbroker.com, etc. without turning in the shell casing even in cases where the shell casings were provided. I realize many FFL's will not do this because they are either unclear on the law or simply believe the law says they always have to turn in the casings on a new gun. I use two FFL's who have properly read and verified the law. It is not that hard people, I realize that our school system sucks nowadays and many young people cannot spell and have awful grammar, but this law is quite clearly written in this case. |
Who? |
Your are intrepreting that wrong. The MSP has clarified their stance on this at the Dealers Meetings. They look at what your FFL is doing as circumventing the spirit of the law. They WILL pull the FFL's State Pistol and Revolver License for doing what your saying, and possibly get the dealer on whatever charges they can. Im sure the MSP would love to know what dealers are doing this for you. FFL dont follow these regs to screw their customers. They do it because the MSP says so. I guess you dont need an approved lock or have the gun on the roster either............. Just do whatever you want. You can just say all your guns were made before 1985 right?  The FFL lynching on here is sad lately. Perhaps we should do whatever a customer wants and end up like Sandy Abrams. . Yeah, all over one sale. FFL's dont need customers like you.BTW arent you the one who "lost" an AR over a year ago and is just now sating it was stolen? Your posts here are shady. |
It doesn't look like there is much to interpret - the law says what it says "from a manufacturer". The MSP may have a "stance" but that does not make it legal. The key here is that a dealer's license can be revoked and put that dealer out of business. Kind of a "strong arm" tactic if you don't follow their wishes. I understand the situation the dealers are put in and I do not blame them for being a little more cautious and erring in that direction. It is their livelyhood at stake. |
I appreciate the undersatnading shrikefan. You are very much correct. The MSP does strong arm dealers. The law is as just as posted, but the MSP interprets it their way. I would gladly sell whatever a customer wants and a a competitive price but the MSP can and will shut us down for something outside lookers see at stupid. Anyone who says otherwise has never had an 01 FFL and a Pistol and Revolver Licnse in MD in the past 8 Years. I agree these kind of tactics need to be challenged but not by dealers. They need to be changed in the legislature, which is an uphill battle here. What alot of people dont realize too is the MSP and ATF has personnel who try to find offenders. Heres what we see mulitple times per year: 10-30 times yr: People try to make handgun ammo buys under 21. 20-40 times yr: People try to make obvious straw purchases. 50-60 times yr: People try to get us to sell handguns without an approved lock. 50-60 times yr: People try to get us to list non HBAR Ar15's as HBARS. 20-30 times yr: People try to avoid giving us ID when dropping off a repair (Hot Gun) Now how do we know which one of those attempts was an ATF agent, MSP trooper/cadet, informant type, cor busted criminal making some sting deal? We dont. |