Posted: 3/22/2012 2:54:34 PM EDT
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Did that pass or not, and if not does it have a chance now since Florida shit going down,
Thanks to all the protesters from the north coming down and getting into our business |
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I dont think even in Florida that that guy can get away with what he did. Im all for
being able to stand your ground and defend yourself. But when you put yourself in a bad situation on purpose ( without coming to someones aid against death, or grevious bodily harm ) you are setting yourself up for a bad shoot. It will weigh against you that you were there on your own accord. |
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This wasnt a shooting, but look at what another guy got away with using the same law...
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/21/2706789/miami-judge-stabbing-in-the-back.html This makes all of us look bad! |
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First off, the cops let him off and determined it was self defense for one reason or another.
Now, it appears there might have been a witness to the events immediately prior to the shooting. Linky... Anyone else notice how he is being called a "white-hispanic"? |
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Quoted:
Did that pass or not, and if not does it have a chance now since Florida shit going down, Thanks to all the protesters from the north coming down and getting into our business The bill passed the House and Senate, Governor Dayton vetoed the bill. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_8_28/478486_Gov__Dayton_VETOed_the_Minnesota_Comprehensive_Firearms_Reform_bill.html |
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First off, the cops let him off and determined it was self defense for one reason or another. Now, it appears there might have been a witness to the events immediately prior to the shooting. Linky... Anyone else notice how he is being called a "white-hispanic"? Let me be clear, if he was Zimmerman was attacked he was justified to use deadly force under Florida law. My issue is that Florida law does not have a reluctant participant clause, meaning that you can escalate a situation and still be justified in using deadly force. You should have the ability to stand your if you are a reluctant participant. If you instigate a fight, get your ass kicked and then shoot the guy, then I see an issue. We don't know all the facts in the case but it still makes permit holders look bad. The BS race issue that the MSM is trying to stir up is nonsense, this could have been two white guys and there would be no outrage. ETA: OP, sorry for getting off topic. |
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Did that pass or not, and if not does it have a chance now since Florida shit going down, Thanks to all the protesters from the north coming down and getting into our business yeah, now the University of Minnesota students are getting into something they know nothing about and protesting. Little different story coming out now about the shooting and why the cops didn't arrest Zimmerman, because of a witness. The halo around the kids head is starting to vaporize...lol.. |
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SYG did exactly what is is supposed to do. ensure that a shooter claiming self defence is
presumed innocent until proven guilty. whatever Zimmerman did leading up to the confrontation doesn't really matter as none of it was illegal. may not have been smart, but not illegal. he followed martin, not illegal. me MAY have confronted martin, not illegal for someone to walk upto someone in his neighborhood he doesn't know and ask him what he is doing there. what WE don't know, did martin escalate a verbal confrontation to a physical one or did Zimmerman. SYG ensures that if a party claims self defence, and the evidance does not conflict with his claim, you don't get arrested. there is still a full investigation, and the body of evidance will determine if Zimmerman is innocent or guilty. if the evidance conflicts with what he said, he goes to prison if the evidance confirms what he said, he stays free. simple as that. now my best GUESS based on what evidance has been released. Zimmerman followed martin, martin took off running and got away from Zimmerman (martin called his GF telling her he got away from Zimmerman). martin doubled back and caught up with Zimmerman when he was returning to his truck. not sure if martin struck Zimmerman in the back of the head first, or is Zimmerman was thrown back onto the ground. but we do know that Zimmerman had a gash on the back of his head and a broken nose and his back was covered in grass stains and dirt, confirming what a witness told police that martin was on TOP of Zimmerman beating him. at some point Zimmerman got ahold of his gun and shot martin. that is what the evidence says that also seems to reflect the account that Zimmerman told police. the family and the lynch mob claims that Zimmerman was out to shoot a black man in cold blood. seeing martin and being pissed off that the back people always get away, a trigger happy Zimmerman ran martin down with the intent to shoot him. if this were true, there should be very little evidence of a fight let alone a witness. there is audio evidance that there was a physical fight before the shooting. why would a man approaching martin with the INTENT of shooting him engage in a physical fight? the SYG is working just as intended.... that said, the gov of FL and the author of the bill are distancing them selves because of the whole race card crap. they are politicians after all. why would you expect them to stand up to principal? and yes, this incident will severely hurt ANY good gun laws in the next several years regardless of the final outcome of the Zimmerman incident. |
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I first heard about the Zimmerman/Martin thing right here on Arfcom the day or two after it went down.
I remember the consensus being something like this: If this thing went down anything like it said in the news story, this is a bad shoot. My stance on it remains today what it was when I first read it: I'm keeping an open mind about it, but if it happened at all like it sounded that first day, it's not looking good for Zimmerman. ETA: now that everyone has had a chance to politicize it every which way and herd everyone into their "proper" respective corners, this situation has only escalated in its insanity, thus making it all the more important to me to retain my own sanity and stand strong on my original conclusions. It's funny that this didn't become a big deal until the past week, yet I first heard about it a month ago. And back then, everyone was free to form their own ideas and opinions about it. But ever since it became a big deal, all of the national talking heads have weighed in and told everyone what to think about this situation and how to react to it and everyone has lined up right where they're "supposed" to line up, everyone has taken their "proper" place based on the perception building undertaken by the national talking heads. Sickening, really. Shows you much about what people are made of intellectually. |
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New development
Trayvon Martin Shooter Told Cops Teenager Went For His Gun http://gma.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-shooter-told-cops-teenager-went-gun-030349812––abc-news.html Not sure why hotlink wont work... From the article: George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch crime captain who shot dead 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, originally told police in a written statement that Martin knocked him down with a punch to the nose, repeatedly slammed his head on the ground and tried to take his gun, a police source told ABC News.
Zimmerman had claimed he had called police about Martin, whom he found suspicious, then went back to his car when Martin attacked him, punching him. The new information is the most complete version yet of what Zimmerman claims happened on the night of Feb. 26 when he shot and killed the teenager. In addition, an eyewitness, 13-year-old Austin Brown, told police he saw a man fitting Zimmerman's description lying on the grass moaning and crying for help just seconds before he heard the gunshot that killed Martin. |
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New development Trayvon Martin Shooter Told Cops Teenager Went For His Gun http://gma.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-shooter-told-cops-teenager-went-gun-030349812––abc-news.html broken link this it? http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-shooter-teenager-gun/story?id=16000239 |
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New development Trayvon Martin Shooter Told Cops Teenager Went For His Gun http://gma.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-shooter-told-cops-teenager-went-gun-030349812––abc-news.html broken link this it? http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-shooter-teenager-gun/story?id=16000239 Looks like the same article... Thanks |
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Tagged. Don't forget THIS lovely partisan media 'news report' as well: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46863258/ns/us_news/ |
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I still fear that cases like this are going to start to change public opinion...
These all seem to be cases where, had the permit holder/homeowner had better training, mindset or common sense things would have turned out much differently. Had Zimmerman waited for the police and never got out of his car, how much better would his life be? I teach, if it is not worth dying over, it is not worth killing over. I dont have a moral issue with taking scum off the street, I have an issue with being tarred and feathered by the media having to live in hiding, and pay huge legal fees. In short, we shouldnt let our support for fellow gun owners, blind us to the fact that they can make bad decisions and often times while legally justified "could" have avoided the situation. |
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a newer story in favor of:
PHOENIX (AP) – A 14-year-old boy shot and nearly killed an intruder who broke into his Phoenix home and pulled a gun on him while he was watching his three younger siblings, police said Saturday. http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-06-23/phoenix-teen-shoots-intruder/55782484/1 |
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a newer story in favor of: PHOENIX (AP) – A 14-year-old boy shot and nearly killed an intruder who broke into his Phoenix home and pulled a gun on him while he was watching his three younger siblings, police said Saturday. http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-06-23/phoenix-teen-shoots-intruder/55782484/1 Good news! Thanks for the post, WolfTrack! |
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Read about that one as well. That one is different in quite a few ways with regards to the GZ incident in FL.
The teenager didn't step outside his home when leveraging deadly force. He took precautions to remove other family members from harms way, as much as possible. Now, a certain ARFCOM member/vendor will tell you "there is no need for SYG" and that in MN we have a "reasonable law already on the books"... 
We do NOT have a "castle" doctrine in this state... everyone is expected to scram in a situation where lives or property are directly threatened. It is only if you PERSONALLY cannot leave that you can then stay put and defend yourself. Ask yourself, which one of your kids would you leave behind if an attacker came into your house? Kinda makes you wonder if Dayton has a brain. If that family were in MN, legal fees for them would force them into the poor house and the criminal who busted through their door and his attorney would have every right to sue in civil court. You can do everything "legally" and yet still lose your house, home, job, ...etc. and then the criminal or their attorney make out like bandits like they had planned all along. This was part of the reason behind the proposed SYG or "Castle Doctrine" changes to the law. If found criminally innocent, civil litigation (by the aggressor) had no legal purpose to move forward with. If someone can show me where the law was changed to prevent civil litigation, I'll retract my statement and apologize to everyone. My $.02 |