Posted: 2/2/2010 12:21:00 PM EDT
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Since MN residents can purchase long arms (shotguns & rifles) in contiguous states has anyone had any issues in buying them in Michigan without going through an FFL?
Just wondering since I have a trip coming up. |
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uh, you are not suppose to buy a firearm and then transfer it across state lines unless you buy it from an FFL How does that jive with: 624.71 624.71 GUN CONTROL; APPLICATION OF FEDERAL LAW.
Subdivision 1. Application.Notwithstanding any other law to the contrary, it shall be lawful for any federally licensed importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector to sell and deliver firearms and ammunition to a resident of a contiguous state in any instance where such sale and delivery is lawful under the federal Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618). Subd. 2. Contiguous state purchases.Notwithstanding any other law to the contrary, it shall be lawful for a resident of Minnesota to purchase firearms and ammunition in a contiguous state in any instance where such sale and delivery is lawful under the federal Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618). |
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uh, you are not suppose to buy a firearm and then transfer it across state lines unless you buy it from an FFL How does that jive with: 624.71 624.71 GUN CONTROL; APPLICATION OF FEDERAL LAW.
Subdivision 1. Application.Notwithstanding any other law to the contrary, it shall be lawful for any federally licensed importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector to sell and deliver firearms and ammunition to a resident of a contiguous state in any instance where such sale and delivery is lawful under the federal Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618). Subd. 2. Contiguous state purchases.Notwithstanding any other law to the contrary, it shall be lawful for a resident of Minnesota to purchase firearms and ammunition in a contiguous state in any instance where such sale and delivery is lawful under the federal Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618). Does not the federal law contradict this? And regardless, there's kinda that whole issue of Wisconsin involved... |
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§ 478.96 Out-of-State and mail order sales.
top (a) The provisions of this section shall apply when a firearm is purchased by or delivered to a person not otherwise prohibited by the Act from purchasing or receiving it. (b) A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer may sell a firearm that is not subject to the provisions of §478.102(a) to a nonlicensee who does not appear in person at the licensee's business premises if the nonlicensee is a resident of the same State in which the licensee's business premises are located, and the nonlicensee furnishes to the licensee the firearms transaction record, Form 4473, required by §478.424. The nonlicensee shall attach to such record a true copy of any permit or other information required pursuant to any statute of the State and published ordinance applicable to the locality in which he resides. The licensee shall prior to shipment or delivery of the firearm, forward by registered or certified mail (return receipt requested) a copy of the record, Form 4473, to the chief law enforcement officer named on such record, and delay shipment or delivery of the firearm for a period of at least 7 days following receipt by the licensee of the return receipt evidencing delivery of the copy of the record to such chief law enforcement officer, or the return of the copy of the record to him due to the refusal of such chief law enforcement officer to accept same in accordance with U.S. Postal Service regulations. The original Form 4473, and evidence of receipt or rejection of delivery of the copy of the Form 4473 sent to the chief law enforcement officer shall be retained by the licensee as a part of the records required of him to be kept under the provisions of subpart H of this part. (c)(1) A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer may sell or deliver a rifle or shotgun, and a licensed collector may sell or deliver a rifle or shotgun that is a curio or relic to a nonlicensed resident of a State other than the State in which the licensee's place of business is located if— (i) The purchaser meets with the licensee in person at the licensee's premises to accomplish the transfer, sale, and delivery of the rifle or shotgun; (ii) The licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer complies with the provisions of §478.102; (iii) The purchaser furnishes to the licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer the firearms transaction record, Form 4473, required by §478.124; and (iv) The sale, delivery, and receipt of the rifle or shotgun fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States. (2) For purposes of paragraph (c) of this section, any licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or licensed dealer is presumed, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both such States. (Approved by the Office of Management and Budget under control number 1512–0130) [33 FR 18555, Dec. 14, 1968. Redesignated at 40 FR 16835, Apr. 15, 1975, and amended by T.D. ATF–48, 44 FR 55842, Sept. 28, 1979; T.D. ATF–241, 51 FR 39620, Oct. 29, 1986; T.D. ATF–270, 53 FR 10497, Mar. 31, 1988; T.D. ATF–354, 59 FR 7112, Feb. 14, 1994; T.D. ATF–415, 63 FR 58278, Oct. 29, 1998] And § 478.99 Certain prohibited sales or deliveries. top (a) Interstate sales or deliveries. A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector shall not sell or deliver any firearm to any person not licensed under this part and who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee's place of business or activity is located: Provided, That the foregoing provisions of this paragraph (1) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of a rifle or shotgun (curio or relic, in the case of a licensed collector) to a resident of a State other than the State in which the licensee's place of business or collection premises is located if the requirements of §478.96(c) are fully met, and (2) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes (see §478.97). ETC. (You can look up the rest) Unless it ships to an FFL in MN, Michigan is a no go! Mark |
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I think people get confused because we always hear about the "48 contiguous" states. But the firearms laws consider contiguous to mean "touching" as in a "bordering" state. MN does border MI, in the middle of Lake Superior. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Michigan.svg/726px-Michigan.svg.png 
Now that's thinkin... |
The Sultan WINS the prize for critical thinking (non-monetary of course)! 
624.71 GUN CONTROL; APPLICATION OF FEDERAL LAW.
Subdivision 1. Application.Notwithstanding any other law to the contrary, it shall be lawful for any federally licensed importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector to sell and deliver firearms and ammunition to a resident of a contiguous state in any instance where such sale and delivery is lawful under the federal Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618). Subd. 2. Contiguous state purchases.Notwithstanding any other law to the contrary, it shall be lawful for a resident of Minnesota to purchase firearms and ammunition in a contiguous state in any instance where such sale and delivery is lawful under the federal Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618). And the majority of you fail the test. Minnesota and Michigan ARE contiguous states based on the common state line which lies just off shore of the NE tip of the Arrowhead in the BIG lake, and that Ise Royale, Michigan located just off shore (14 miles) and can be seen from MN is part of that contiguous relationship. After gazing at my Rand McNalley during a nice cold weekend in the burbs of Duluth, and looking at some other maps I decided to see if any of you realized that MN & MI are contiguous states. MN does border MI, in the middle of Lake Superior.
Abit closer Mr. Sultan. In referencing Google Earth the closest the MN/MI state line gets is 176 yards off the furthermost NE tip of MN in the BIG lake. And this is before the line reaches the international border. Unless someone tells me that MN does not have legal ownership of the lake bottom out to the defined state line, and that MI does not have a contigous state law regarding rifles and shotguns then I think it's LEGAL for us MN residents to buy without going through an FFL when you are traveling out of state in to MI because of Subds. 1 and 2. Somebody prove me wrong. I am all ears. I believe this is the only situation like this in the country. My .02 |
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So, I can buy a firearm in nd, sd, mi, wi and ia without being a resident or having a purchase permit or going through an ffl? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Except for handguns where you have to go thru an FFL, and unless a contiguous state prohibits MN residents from purchasing a rifle or shotgun. But I don't think any contiguous state prohibits MN residents from doing so. Plus like handguns, AR lowers "without stocks at the time of purchase" are considered like a handgun since the ATF considers an AR lower receiver without an attached rifle stock to be capable of being completed as a handgun. Buy an AR lower receiver with an attached rifle stock and it's a rifle. |
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So, I can buy a firearm in nd, sd, mi, wi and ia without being a resident or having a purchase permit or going through an ffl? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Except for handguns where you have to go thru an FFL, and unless a contiguous state prohibits MN residents from purchasing a rifle or shotgun. But I don't think any contiguous state prohibits MN residents from doing so. Plus like handguns, AR lowers "without stocks at the time of purchase" are considered like a handgun since the ATF considers an AR lower receiver without an attached rifle stock to be capable of being completed as a handgun. Buy an AR lower receiver with an attached rifle stock and it's a rifle. You still need to go thru an FFL. No private sales between residents of different states. |
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So, I can buy a firearm in nd, sd, mi, wi and ia without being a resident or having a purchase permit or going through an ffl? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Except for handguns where you have to go thru an FFL, and unless a contiguous state prohibits MN residents from purchasing a rifle or shotgun. But I don't think any contiguous state prohibits MN residents from doing so. Plus like handguns, AR lowers "without stocks at the time of purchase" are considered like a handgun since the ATF considers an AR lower receiver without an attached rifle stock to be capable of being completed as a handgun. Buy an AR lower receiver with an attached rifle stock and it's a rifle. You still need to go thru an FFL. No private sales between residents of different states. Yes, I missed the no private sales point, Thx! |
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So, I can buy a firearm in nd, sd, mi, wi and ia without being a resident or having a purchase permit or going through an ffl? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Except for handguns where you have to go thru an FFL, and unless a contiguous state prohibits MN residents from purchasing a rifle or shotgun. But I don't think any contiguous state prohibits MN residents from doing so. Plus like handguns, AR lowers "without stocks at the time of purchase" are considered like a handgun since the ATF considers an AR lower receiver without an attached rifle stock to be capable of being completed as a handgun. Buy an AR lower receiver with an attached rifle stock and it's a rifle. You still need to go thru an FFL. No private sales between residents of different states. Yes, I missed the no private sales point, Thx! isnt that what i said way up at the top ??????? |
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Quoted: Quoted: hand guns if you are going to school in a state that is not your state of residence though Im going to school in Wisconsin, and no one will even let me touch handguns under the counter with my MNDL WI sucks... MrGreg picked up a handgun here in ND and hes a WI resident. cant force anyone to sell to you of course. if I were an FFL I wouldn't test the bounds of the ATF even if their own rules say I can. stick to the straight and narrow. |
| the whole going to school in another state and buying guns is a big grey area. now technically if you go to school in another state you are a resident. this means that with the proper info and documents you could buy handguns in wi. now it is just a whole lot easier to send it back and do it in mn. and by doing so you error on the side of caution. which is a good thing knowing the atf. i am a wi resident that goes to school in mn, so i deal with the same thing. whenever i want to buy an hand gun or ar/ak (anything that needs a permit) it is just easier to send it back to wi. but if i wanted to buy one in mn i would need to get a valid id/dl and permit. in wisconsin you would need a valid id/dl and then do the 48 wait anf 13$ fee. now i am just some gun nut on the internet who probably lives in his parents basement, and is 47 who has never had a girlfriend, so take it for what it is worth or not. |
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Quoted: the whole going to school in another state and buying guns is a big grey area. now technically if you go to school in another state you are a resident. this means that with the proper info and documents you could buy handguns in wi. now it is just a whole lot easier to send it back and do it in mn. and by doing so you error on the side of caution. which is a good thing knowing the atf. i am a wi resident that goes to school in mn, so i deal with the same thing. whenever i want to buy an hand gun or ar/ak (anything that needs a permit) it is just easier to send it back to wi. but if i wanted to buy one in mn i would need to get a valid id/dl and permit. in wisconsin you would need a valid id/dl and then do the 48 wait anf 13$ fee. now i am just some gun nut on the internet who probably lives in his parents basement, and is 47 who has never had a girlfriend, so take it for what it is worth or not. Negative. The issue is proving you are a resident of the state you are going to school in. You can get a state ID without forfeiting your DL in your home state, and if you are buying a pistol or scary gun you need your MN PTC or Purchase Permit. |