Posted: 12/3/2009 9:34:51 AM EDT
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I have a DPMS AP4 and I was thinking of getting a bull barrel upper for hunting and target shooting(guy at the gun club said he'd teach me how to reload)
1. What would be a good length bull barrel for accuracy? Not more than 300 yard for starts I was leaning toward the 24'' special or similar I was thinking if I got the 24'' upper, 2.will that be hard on the buffer on a collapsible stock, or should I get a full stock? I would like to just swap uppers and keep the CAR stock. I would consider a low pro classic type upper if accuracy is no different than a 24''. Or should I just use my AP4 upper and buy good ammo? |
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1.) Bull Barrels for Accuracy - you'll get pretty darn good accuracy out of a 20" BBL, but the 24" will group a little bit tighter.
It's also QUITE worth mentioning that you often get what you pay for regarding barrels! I'd suggest getting the best you can afford within your weapon budget... 2.) No, it won't be hard on the buffer, but to handle the increased 'dwell' time for gas back pressure you might want to bump up your buffer to an H or H2 heavier buffer (this all depends on gas system length & whether or not your gas port was drilled to spec). 3.) This depends upon what kind of accuracy you're looking for (whether or not the barrel can get that tight of groups), and what kind of optic(s) you're looking into. As mentioned before, barrels vary dramatically in quality from one manufacturer to another... I have a Sabre Defense 14.5" chrome-lined middy barrel with perma-fixed flash hider, and that barrel is capable of the same accuracy my 20" stainless bull barrel AR was getting. Granted with reduced velocities due to barrel length, it's not performing the same at extended ranges, within ~300 yards it'll shoot just as good. Likewise I had an OlyArms A2 20" Heavy Barrel that would shoot pretty piss-poor groups because the barrel quality & rifling were different... It all comes down to quality of barrel manufacture (high quality vs. no-name junk), materials chosen (Chrome-moly, Stainless base metals), steel treatment processes / coatings (Bare Chrome-moly, Chrome-lined, M, etc.), and the quality control with which they're manufactured. Honestly, I'd give SLR15 a call & talk to them first. The key is to get a good barrel, and build the an accurate & functional assembly around it. Loading for 223 is FUN, but the brass prep work is a real P.I.T.A.! I suggest you see how the basics go by watching your friend, and then pick up an RCBS kit (make sure you pick the right one for you), and get started on your way! I also highly recommend talking with John out at the gunstop if you ever get down this way! Great prices, great advice, and loads of help getting you started out... |
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Yea if you plan on hunting with it I wouldn't go any longer than 20". Get a match barrel and it will shoot fine. You are gonna lose minimal velocity going from a 24 to a 20. Like maybe 200fps. WOA makes great barrels that are fairly cheap in the match grade variety. I bought my 16" for like 300 from rainier arms, next one I will buy will be a 18". Seems if the military is using that length for Squad Designated Marksman, that is good enough for me.
Edit: For reloading, it is nice you have someone to teach you. I bought a lee kit and had to read a ton to learn how. Everything has worked out fine for me. The lee sing stage kit is really nice for beginning, but now I think I want a progressive for plinking loads. Single stage is great for making my match bullets. |
| I don't know if weight is a concern, but a 24" bull barrel is going to make for a pretty heavy rifle. Even the 20" will be pretty hefty. I had a 20" Hbar and I hated it for the weight. I've gone to using government profile barrels and haven't looked back. I'm not into shooting tiny little groups either shooter though. If I can hit the steels at the occasional 3 gun and have fun at the range that's all I care. |
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One thing that people have not mentioned here is Ammo.
If you're loading for accuracy... 55gr bullet will most likely not be sufficient for that. Which correlates to barrel twist rate. Don't get a twist rate that is meant for a 55gr bullet. For example, a 77grain bullet would require around a 1in8 twist to stabilize. Don't skimp out on the barrel and ammo... eta... my 16 inch WOA upper can maintain 1MOA out to 300M. Longer barrel would give me a little more velocity and potentially cleaner powder burn. |
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IMHO The best bang for your buck on an accurate barrel that would fit what you are looking for is the DPMS Mk12 barrel. It's fairly light with an SPR contour, 18" so you lose almost no velocity compared to a 20", 1-8" twist so you can shoot heavier bullets if you want, and it's stainless with a black teflon coating which you can bead blast off if you want the subdued look. It has also been said to be one of the most accurate barrels DPMS sells.
DPMS MK12 |
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Quoted:
Do you want an inexpensive upper that will look like a varmint gun, or one that will work great and be accurate? I guess I just wanted a bull barrel upper so I can lower my scope and not have the front sight in the way. And get tight groups at long distances. I have a BSA 1.5-5 power scope and it's on a riser. Otherwise it would get a little blurry. I figured if I can hit a steel target at 250 with iron sights and wolf ammo on my AP4 upper, than having an different upper wouldn't be worth it. I'm going to try different ammo, I think I have a 1-9 twist 5.56. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Do you want an inexpensive upper that will look like a varmint gun, or one that will work great and be accurate? I guess I just wanted a bull barrel upper so I can lower my scope and not have the front sight in the way. And get tight groups at long distances. I have a BSA 1.5-5 power scope and it's on a riser. Otherwise it would get a little blurry. I figured if I can hit a steel target at 250 with iron sights and wolf ammo on my AP4 upper, than having an different upper wouldn't be worth it. I'm going to try different ammo, I think I have a 1-9 twist 5.56. I could put a fold down front sight base like MI or PRI on. You would make the upper you have do what you want. Or the MK12 barrel like Crash said. |
I also have that burris pepr mount. It's VERY solidly built, and works like a charm! 
However, when I got it I was a bit disappointed to see a sticker on the bottom saying, "Made in China", but for a Chinese chunk of metal it's REALLY well built, and works great - especially for the price! |
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Quoted:
I also have that burris pepr mount. It's VERY solidly built, and works like a charm!
However, when I got it I was a bit disappointed to see a sticker on the bottom saying, "Made in China", but for a Chinese chunk of metal it's REALLY well built, and works great - especially for the price! Agreed china kinda threw me off, thing is SOLID best buy for the price I say. If you are into names get a Larue, but I think this is just as good or dare I say "If not better" |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I also have that burris pepr mount. It's VERY solidly built, and works like a charm!
However, when I got it I was a bit disappointed to see a sticker on the bottom saying, "Made in China", but for a Chinese chunk of metal it's REALLY well built, and works great - especially for the price! Agreed china kinda threw me off, thing is SOLID best buy for the price I say. If you are into names get a Larue, but I think this is just as good or dare I say "If not better" I rather give an American company $200, than give the chinese $2. |
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Our Fed government is in debt to them for well over several trillion now. Whether you give them $2 or $2T, it don't matter much.
In terms of optics and mounts, there are several quality options out there. (hence the sub-forum on this board for optics... at the cost of sounding repetitive) Anyhow, good luck and shoot straight! |