Posted: 4/7/2008 7:07:21 AM EDT
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My wife and I took Andrew Rothman's CCW class www.mngun.com this past weekend. There was one other person in the class held in Eden Praire. My wife and I both enjoyed ourselves and felt like we learned a great deal. The small class size lead to a very friendly atmosphere which allowed us to ask some questions and go over some things that we may not have in a larger class. Specifically my wife was glad she was able to "stop" class to ask what a double action was. I was glad as well because Mr. Rothman did far better at explaining it than I would have. My wife attened the class mostly to humor me, but told me later that now she has more intention to carry after taking the class. I have already recomended his class to a few people and will continue to do so. <Removed hotlink....dpmmn> |
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The class was multi state, we covered MN and Utah. I don't really have any interest in getting any out of state permits, mostly due to cost-benefit analysis (I don't travel much.) The Utah material was pretty similar to MN and added a gun cleaning portion. It seems like Utah is far more strict on criminal background barring you. It is cheaper than Florida though. The class covered lots of material. The classroom time ran from 8am to 3pm-ish with a short lunch break (we ran and got sandwiches and ate during more lecture.) The range time was just qualification, ~50rds down range per person. Mr. Rothman did spend some time with my wife helping her with stance and grip at the range. In the class we covered the law and how it applies. We went over the 4 rules of gun safety. Reasons for carry, reasons to not carry, drinking while carry, police encounters. What to do/not to do if you see trouble (ie someone getting raped in a dark alley OR is it undercover police arresting a hooker.) The moral and social implications of carry. Avoidence of Stupid People, Stupid Places, Stupid Activites. We covered the basics of pistol operation, stance, grip, reloading, differences between revolvers and semi-autos. We went over holsters, what to do with your gun while in a bathroom stall, carry concealment, if you should conceal... alot of material was covered. It was all presented in very understandable ways. |
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Sounds like Mr. Rothmans class covered the theoretical part very well. That's good, many carry classes fall short in this area. Although my "ideal" view of a carry class is impractical, this is what it would be. 2 days, first spent on classroom/lecture/Q&A/hypothetical situations, the second on practical carry, gear selection, beginner intro to tactical shooting, etc. Most carry classes try to do both of these and cram them into one day, and fail at both. The more pragmatic instructors focus heavily one one or the other, and leave the other topic to future classes, if it has to be a one day class. Sounds like Mr. Rothman has chosen the day 1 curriculum. I think this is what most people need. (Perhaps the current crop of carry permit holders that are already familiar with the law would be better served by a class that focused on more advanced topics. Many carry instructors I have talked to have started doing renewal classes that are exactly that, a couple hours to review the legal basics, and the rest spent on practical carry topics). Sounds like you and your wife got your moneys' worth out of the class. That is more than I can say for the class I first took 5 years ago to get my permit. |
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Since the renewal period is coming around for the initial permit holders is underway, it is interesting to note the change in classes geared towards that. But, from experience there are a lot people who come away from most permit to carry classes lacking sorely! Heck one poster/instructor on this forum passed a guy through his class, and the guy can not hit the board side of a barn. And, this is sad very sad indeed. Then we have the instructors the that seem be bent on their own power trip...........for the inflation of their ego! They are out to rip off the unsuspecting public. Then we have instructors that are intent on demonstrating the street survival skill set. Then they help the student realize competent gun handling skills and achieving combat accuracy which is after all the reality of the matter. This is best done on the range! Book learning for the adult is very different, and let's face facts I doubt many a student reads the class materials again. Whereas, they might keep practice shooting. Shooting is a psych motor skill set that needs practice and reinforcement of good habits. And, lets admit that most of the indoor ranges do not allow for the average Joe to practice drawing from a holster with live fire on the range. I can assure anyone that people do not rise to the occasion they DEFAULT TO THEIR LEVEL OF TRAINING! That is God's Fact! And, there is no need for empirical data to support that statement as some instructors seem to the think is required. Good hands on training is the key! People can talk a good line of BS and tout this or that! But when the fecal matter hits the oscillating blades one needs to have hands on practice so their response is appropriate! The consumer is the one that has no benchmark for what is good training till they have experienced it. There are a lot of options out there to experience, but my dollars and time are spent with hands on range work under the watchful eye of competent instructors. We can all learn from different experiences. Education, whether professionally or for life experience enhancement, should be a never ending undertaking. Go forth and get more education. Do not be complacent! Enhance your skill set! |
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dpmmn, what is the scoop on hotlinks? You have called me out on it twice. I am not trying to be a jerk or sell stuff or do anything else torrid. I simply hotlinked mngun.com (and previously twincitycarry.com) to make it easier for people interested in the topic. I understood the issue with twincitycarry.com because it is a "competing" forum. But mngun.com isn't a forum, nor is it porno. Nor do I believe that a simple hotlink to a site could be considered advertisement anymore than a link to the dpmsinc.com/outbreak webpage in the post "MAY 3 AR-15 Shoot at Del-tone Gun Club in St. Cloud MN" or the posting of the news article in the post "Deputy misplaces gun" or if I someone posted a review of their latest weapon aquisition or vehicle purchase with a link to the manufacterer's page. These are merely links to the topic of discussion. If you could explain this to me and point me to the CoC violation I would greatly appreciate it. (again, I am not trying to be a jerk or cause a problem. I am interested to know the rule so I don't violate it a 3rd time.) |
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The difference is, DPMS, Defensive Edge and others are site sponsors and this is a privately owned site, so they make their own rules. You may link to sites such as NRA.org, but not to sites selling stuff. As far as the other site you mention, there has been some bad blood and there is no desire to get into a "board war" so no hotlinks are permitted encouraging cross-posting. Mods, correct me if I am wrong. |
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There is no Hotlinking to Rothman's website and Rosenbergs website. The Democratic Underground (DU) is another site that there is no "hotlinking" to We don't need the "Board Wars" You can post your review with no problems at all just no hotlinking  DPMS, Defensive Edge here in Minnesota are Industry Partners which gives them Limited Permission to do such thread (They pay a lot of money to do so) If you want to post a review of a weapon you purchased thats fine too, chances are the manufacturer is a Industry Partner here Another thing is that "Dealers" must be registered here as "Dealers" before they can advertise To my knowledge, Rothman is not Registered here as a Dealer ( I checked, he is not) Anyway like I said earlier great review, No harm done at all The only time you need to worry is if I send you a IM with this in the title bar: >>>IMPORTANT<<<  ETA: SultanOfBrunei You need to turn your IM's on |