Posted: 8/13/2011 12:29:45 PM EDT
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Hello to the hometowners!
I have lurked for a while and enjoyed reading everything for the last few months so thought I would sign up. This seems like a pretty safe site for information so I wanted to be able to finally post and respond. I hate to start on a bad note but i am soooooooo pissed right now. I took my kid and went to Smokin Guns in paris yesterday to see if they had anything I might like. I took a couple guns to trade just in case. I had done some trading with one guy at one of the shows and had fairly good experience. I went there yesterday and tooootallly the opposite. The gun shop commando slob wanted to give me $200 for mywalther p1 pistol in trade and I pointed out they had the same one used in their case for 430 and the guy said his cost was 309 and that was a different gun. I made him pull it out and showed him the markings where they are the same gun but mine was in better shape and of 80's vintage instead of 70's. He said mine had been re-done so I had to mention to him that they all were probably re-do them all. His was ok, it just had some scuffs probably from moving around. So they are both USED GUNS but he wants to give me over 100 bucks less in trade for what he normally pays to order one. Nice of them. I won't be back there. |
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Welcome to the world of retail––no shop is going to give you over their cost for a gun. Period. It doesn't make sense for a shop to give you more for an "unknown, un-supported" firearm vs. one with the backings of a distributor network. Most shops in the Louisville area would've offered you the same amount. In case you didn't know, you're ALWAYS going to be running up against what a dealer can get for a gun, and they're NEVER going to offer you more than their cost. You don't know what their cost is, they do. It's not a secret––if you want to maximize your own profit, eliminate the middleman and sell in a FTF transaction. Don't feel comfortable with FTF? Tough, your loss. A shop needs to be able to purchase a firearm at a cost which allows them to mark it up slightly and get what we in the business call "profits". These "profits" allow a shop to do things like "keep the lights on" and "pay the rent" as well as "cover overhead costs & payroll money." Don't like it? Don't go to a gunshop. Then they'll close, and you won't have anywhere to shop. Welcome to the free market. Enjoy your stay.  On the flipside, it sounds like the guy went about explaining it to you in an entirely jerkish fashion. No reason to put up with jerks, there are plenty of other shops in KY that would love to have your business. |
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what he said. Add to that the fact that he already has one in stock that hasn't sold, and he doesn't have a whole lot of incentive to bring another one into the shop. Unless he can get it significantly less than he can normally get them for. Always better off selling directly if you want to get close to what it's worth. Selling to a dealer is never going to go in your favor unless the gun was a gift. I see it all the time in my friend's gun shop. Someone sees a particular gun going for a certain price on gun broker or at the last gun show he was at and thinks that's what it's worth What someone is asking for a gun and what it will actually sell for are not usually the same. Then of course the dealer has to be able to sell it for more than he paid for it or else he will soon find himself out of business. The profit margin on guns is not very big at all for a dealer. When you are selling to a dealer, you are competing against the price he can get them at wholesale for, not against the retail price he is selling them for. As mentioned his wholesale distributor will take the gun back if it turns out to be defective, when he is purchasing from an individual he is buying it as is without a chance to test fire it first. If it is defective in some way, he is stuck with it. That risk he is taking by buying it from an individual is going to play a part in his offer. I actually saw a guy come into the shop one day and actually get pissy because he felt his Ruger SR9 was worth $500 since he hadn't shot it (they always say that) and he got it with a "military discount" when he bought it at $450 from another dealer. He felt that since he got it at a discounted price and hadn't shot it that it was actually worth more than he paid for it. First it didn't matter that he says he never shot it. Once it is sold to a retail customer it is no longer considered new weather he shot it or not. Second, he so caller "military discount" didn't mean much when the dealer that gave him the 10% discount was selling at MSRP. Even though my dealer was perfectly polite and showed the guy that he gets them for under $400 wholesale truly "new" and couldn't possibly give him more than that for his used gun. Then he showed him that he had a new one in the display case for $425 new. Not only couldn't he give him more than wholesale for a used gun, he certainly couldn't give him more for his used gun than he sells new ones for. He still left the shop in a huff. |
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I always love these threads. You have a gun that you want to sell. The store isn't looking to buy it from you. That puts you on the wrong side of the deal. Items are only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. There are paintings and antiques worth millions....to certain people. Most of them are worthless to me, so I might offer $5.
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What a nice bunch of responses!!!–– insert sarcasm meter here if you didn't get it.––
I understand much of the replies but seems like some of you should probably be working in gun stores with some of these attitudes. I am definitely not feeling a warm reception. for what its worth though, I traded some guns that I thought would be much harder to move with them at a show and that they already had one of and was treated way more fairly on that deal. That is the only reason I made the hour drive to their store. I think it was just the slob of a commando that I had the unfortunateness to deal with. When I started pointing out the flaw in his rational he started hemming and hawing around grasping for some other reason to put it to me I guess. I was also trying to trade on something they had more than one of,so again, the theory on duplicate guns seems flawed as you would think they would also want to get rid of multiples. Picking up another multiple wouldn't seem to be a factor if they were getting rid of another type for it. I don't know where to go to meet people face to face to sell guns except maybe a gun show. Anyway, It all turned out EXCELLENT in the end despite anyone's theories and opinions here, which would be flawed by what happened next in comparison to what has been said. Late yesterday, I happened upon a gun store dealer who apparently has really good luck selling used guns and I got waaaaay more than Smokin Guns offered me and even more than I paid for the gun towards something else I wanted. I was trading this gun off because I picked up a nice wartime p38 not too long ago. The gun I ended up trading for was actually a decent deal for cash and so was even better for me in the trade. I guess someone is watching out for me. |
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I personally don't agree with the statements by Kentucky Smith. I have done trades with dealers where I have gotten fair value out of my item. I think its down to whatever they think they can sell it for and how fair they want to treat people. Every time I get a Glock, I shoot it,and am reminded why I don't have one already. I consider those to be junk. Your mileage may vary though.
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So who is the other dealer that gave you a good deal? Give 'em a plug so some new business might come through the door. Its a gun store in the central ky area. I don't really want to say much more as it might be too much telling how much they gave me and I wonder if that is ethical to the store. I also try to keep a low profile at places I frequent. I understand stores have to make a profit. I don't think there is much profit on new guns for some places so I wonder how they make it sometimes. Gunbroker seems to be good measure of value. I have the blue book but it does not seem to be very accurate on a lot of things. |
| FWIW, Smokin' Guns was a lot better when it was Bud's. However, I still like to go to their indoor range when it's raining. And I'd be hard-pressed to buy anything at a gun shop if I had any other options. They're nice for window shopping, but that's about as far as it goes. |
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Quoted: Read my member description. I understand much of the replies but seems like some of you should probably be working in gun stores with some of these attitudes. I am definitely not feeling a warm reception.  I do work in a store. No, I'm not telling you which one. Yes, the reasons I posted are all 100% valid business reasons; if you believe them or not is immaterial, those are basic business concepts. Anyone who would give you more for a used gun than they can get a new gun for WILL go out of business quickly. Once again, welcome to the business world. Believe it or not, there is NOT some giant collective gunstore thought of "screw the little guy"––there's not a large margin in the firearms industry if your focus is just firearms. Once again, it's no secret that the best way to maximize your profits is to eliminate the middleman––-if you don't want to do the legwork yourself, put in the time, or wait for your money, then you're flat out of options. And sorry, but P1s aren't quick movers. If something's hot/hard to get, a store will offer you more money. If something's old, they have some already, and they're prone to collect dust, you will not get a large offer for it. |
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Quoted: Transfers are the only reson I go into a gunstore anymore, If the inventory wasn't so overpriced it may move quicker. If I'm looking to trade, I'll do it FTF or through the internet, seems to do away with all the overhead excuses for lowball offers Business is business––-I'm not going to give you more for a used gun than I can get it for from wholesalers or importers. It's basic economics. Stores are out to make money, not friends; good customer service and reasonable prices are a way to do both, though......but I'm still not going to pay more for your gun than either 1) it's worth in the real world (and sometimes it's amazing what people think ANYTHING with a Pony on the side is worth  ) or 2) What I can get a new one for, one that is supported by a distribution support network in case anything's flawed with it. The same will be true in any given industry; there's just a lot more self-professed "experts" in the firearms world who overvalue their stuff. And companies do it too. Is a BHP worth dealer cost for a new one? Personally, I don't think so, I think browning is insane. Ergo, I don't have any brand new BHPs in stock. If I don't think your gun is worth what YOU think it's worth, I'm not gonna pay YOUR premium for it. Don't like it? Take your ball elsewhere. Frankly, I'm kinda thankful for the internet's intrustion into the gun world, though––-it's brought some of my shop's competitors "into line", while also giving people an alternate outlet to do their thing, and keep the gun industry alive at all. And if all else fails......sometimes it serves as an impartial reminder to people that sometimes, the market just won't bear what they want for a given firearm. |
| Why shouldnt gun shops be able to make money? You dont go a restaurant and make offers do you? Even though you KNOW they only have a nickle in that drink you are paying a dollar or two for. Its just the way it is.If you have something that is more of a collectible,then you need to find that person to get more for the item. If you had some old MG or Triumph,It may be worth a fortune.I wont give you ten bucks for it.But find that guy that likes it and he will give you your price because thats what he likes.Sorry you had a bad experience there but your best bet is a gun show to maximize your return. |
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Read my member description. I understand much of the replies but seems like some of you should probably be working in gun stores with some of these attitudes. I am definitely not feeling a warm reception.
I do work in a store. No, I'm not telling you which one. Yes, the reasons I posted are all 100% valid business reasons; if you believe them or not is immaterial, those are basic business concepts. Anyone who would give you more for a used gun than they can get a new gun for WILL go out of business quickly. Once again, welcome to the business world. Believe it or not, there is NOT some giant collective gunstore thought of "screw the little guy"––there's not a large margin in the firearms industry if your focus is just firearms. Once again, it's no secret that the best way to maximize your profits is to eliminate the middleman––-if you don't want to do the legwork yourself, put in the time, or wait for your money, then you're flat out of options. And sorry, but P1s aren't quick movers. If something's hot/hard to get, a store will offer you more money. If something's old, they have some already, and they're prone to collect dust, you will not get a large offer for it. You know what is funny, I made that comment about you should work in a gun store and had not noticed your member description. The tone you wrote in apparently describes those that GENERALLY work in stores to me at least. im surprised that you won't mention which one though. You could get some business by doing so. At least give me a hint if it is in the central ky area, louisville, eastern ky, or wherever else it might be. I have always been curious as to what is the pay scale for a "gun shop counter monkey" as you call yourself? Do they make big money or minimum wage? Some sort of dollar range would be cool to know, without being a smartass about it. Your statement of some store giving more for the gun means they WILL go out of business quickly is VERY wrong. The place I traded has been around for quite a a while. As for old or prone to collect dust, maybe I should go back and offer Smokin Guns $1000 for that Barrett .416 they had. Who is going to buy that odd caliber in that costly of a gun?? And since you bring up oddities, it was funny that while I was in that store, the fellow I had dealt with before at a show who i had thought was the manager was having a conversation with some of the other workers about some .22 revolver that they had or were ordering that cost like 1100 dollars and he was trying to figure out why they had it without it being a special order and saying that no one was ever going to pay that money for that sort of gun. I took this to mean paying high dollars for a .22 revolver. Just a vague reference that I thought was funny in light of your mention of having oddities or "shelf-warmers" as some people call them. |
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So who is the other dealer that gave you a good deal? Give 'em a plug so some new business might come through the door. Its a gun store in the central ky area. I don't really want to say much more as it might be too much telling how much they gave me and I wonder if that is ethical to the store. I also try to keep a low profile at places I frequent. I understand stores have to make a profit. I don't think there is much profit on new guns for some places so I wonder how they make it sometimes. Gunbroker seems to be good measure of value. I have the blue book but it does not seem to be very accurate on a lot of things. OK, Secret Squirrel. They probably don't need any additional busness anyway. Guess I'll quit telling people about Whittaker's 
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Read my member description. I understand much of the replies but seems like some of you should probably be working in gun stores with some of these attitudes. I am definitely not feeling a warm reception. I do work in a store. No, I'm not telling you which one. Yes, the reasons I posted are all 100% valid business reasons; if you believe them or not is immaterial, those are basic business concepts. Anyone who would give you more for a used gun than they can get a new gun for WILL go out of business quickly. Once again, welcome to the business world. Believe it or not, there is NOT some giant collective gunstore thought of "screw the little guy"––there's not a large margin in the firearms industry if your focus is just firearms. Once again, it's no secret that the best way to maximize your profits is to eliminate the middleman––-if you don't want to do the legwork yourself, put in the time, or wait for your money, then you're flat out of options. And sorry, but P1s aren't quick movers. If something's hot/hard to get, a store will offer you more money. If something's old, they have some already, and they're prone to collect dust, you will not get a large offer for it. You know what is funny, I made that comment about you should work in a gun store and had not noticed your member description. The tone you wrote in apparently describes those that GENERALLY work in stores to me at least. im surprised that you won't mention which one though. You could get some business by doing so. At least give me a hint if it is in the central ky area, louisville, eastern ky, or wherever else it might be. I have always been curious as to what is the pay scale for a "gun shop counter monkey" as you call yourself? Do they make big money or minimum wage? Some sort of dollar range would be cool to know, without being a smartass about it. Your statement of some store giving more for the gun means they WILL go out of business quickly is VERY wrong. The place I traded has been around for quite a a while. As for old or prone to collect dust, maybe I should go back and offer Smokin Guns $1000 for that Barrett .416 they had. Who is going to buy that odd caliber in that costly of a gun?? And since you bring up oddities, it was funny that while I was in that store, the fellow I had dealt with before at a show who i had thought was the manager was having a conversation with some of the other workers about some .22 revolver that they had or were ordering that cost like 1100 dollars and he was trying to figure out why they had it without it being a special order and saying that no one was ever going to pay that money for that sort of gun. I took this to mean paying high dollars for a .22 revolver. Just a vague reference that I thought was funny in light of your mention of having oddities or "shelf-warmers" as some people call them. I could perhaps get some business for the shop out of it, but I'm not an industry partner. If I'm going to shill for my shop on here, I'm going to pay the site (as seems proper), and get paid from my boss; as it sits, neither's happening . There are some people here who frequent the shop and know I'm on here, though  Gun shop counter monkeys don't earn much; I do relatively well for myself, but am also square in the "poverty" bracket. Then again, guys at my shop don't earn commission, so......yeah. If a business consistently pays more for a used, unsupported product than they can get a "new", supported product for, they won't last long. Businesses survive by maximizing profit potential. If a shop regularly buys product from individuals for well over what they can get one for through a distribution chain, they will either have to fold, or charge ridiculous money in order to turn an amount of profit that results in what one can call "making a living." It's rather simple economic theory. Was that .22 revolver perhaps a model 17 from S&W? Mess with one, and you'll understand why they cost so much.  Some things that a store can get into for a good deal, are apt to be let alone to collect dust more frequently. For example––if a store gets into, say, a SCAR 17 for $400, they can "afford" to let it collect dust for a while if the going price for one is $2400, and would earn them a net profit of $2000. Getting into a P1 for your asking price, in order to make minimal profit (when compared to what a dealer can get a surplused gun for these days), would not warrant yet another dust collector. |
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If a business consistently pays more for a used, unsupported product than they can get a "new", supported product for, they won't last long. Businesses survive by maximizing profit potential. If a shop regularly buys product from individuals for well over what they can get one for through a distribution chain, they will either have to fold, or charge ridiculous money in order to turn an amount of profit that results in what one can call "making a living." It's rather simple economic theory. Was that .22 revolver perhaps a model 17 from S&W? Mess with one, and you'll understand why they cost so much.
Some things that a store can get into for a good deal, are apt to be let alone to collect dust more frequently. For example––if a store gets into, say, a SCAR 17 for $400, they can "afford" to let it collect dust for a while if the going price for one is $2400, and would earn them a net profit of $2000. Getting into a P1 for your asking price, in order to make minimal profit (when compared to what a dealer can get a surplused gun for these days), would not warrant yet another dust collector. Given this statement, I think I can realistically presume that you work for SG. Well, that and the attitude I guess. I have no idea what gun it was but it was ordered "new" from what I was presuming on the issue. |
| The problem is you went to Smoking Guns, Kentucky Firearms, or whatever they're called this week. I have a friend that got screwed over on two nfa items there. And when I say screwed I mean have a complete item when you pay for it and once the stamp comes in its missing critical parts and nobody is able to help. I drove over four hours last week with the idea of starting the paperwork on a sbr and once I seen how my friend was treated that day I took my money elsewhere. |
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The problem is you went to Smoking Guns, Kentucky Firearms, or whatever they're called this week. I have a friend that got screwed over on two nfa items there. And when I say screwed I mean have a complete item when you pay for it and once the stamp comes in its missing critical parts and nobody is able to help. I drove over four hours last week with the idea of starting the paperwork on a sbr and once I seen how my friend was treated that day I took my money elsewhere. I'm sure Rex will be along shortly to address this. I have personally dealt with Rex on a couple of NFA transfers and found him to be a first class act. We are going to need details. 
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The problem is you went to Smoking Guns, Kentucky Firearms, or whatever they're called this week. I have a friend that got screwed over on two nfa items there. And when I say screwed I mean have a complete item when you pay for it and once the stamp comes in its missing critical parts and nobody is able to help. I drove over four hours last week with the idea of starting the paperwork on a sbr and once I seen how my friend was treated that day I took my money elsewhere. First,I have never screwed anyone over.Not on a girl,not on a car,not on NFA. Ever. Thats not how I operate.I dont make a living on NFA so I dont have to"screw" someone over.Second,Smokin Guns is where my stuff is at.I dont sell guns,they dont sell NFA. My people there wont let anything out the door unless I say so.You can understand that on this stuff.If I could have been able to talk,maybe I could have fixed it. If you are referring to the piston for the Osprey,I can just mail it to your friend.Easy installation.I have already called this morning,and got a message his phone was either off or out of the area.I will try again later or if you could be so kind to have him call me.Once I talk to him I will know what I need to send. I was unavailable from Friday to Sunday.It was my birthday on Saturday and I was at the Poker run at Lake Cumberland all weekend.(Youtube Harmon Creek) Nothing I could do by the time I got home anyway after driving from Jamestown to Oldham county for my kids soccer game yesterday and then back to Nicholasville. I am sorry you got so upset over someone elses transaction, but rest assured I will get the correct piston to him and make it right.Everyone here knows that and you will too.I hope your dealer makes your transaction much better on your SBR.Sorry I couldnt get your business.Good luck. |
Maybe I overreacted on that one. It was a long ten hour around trip to end up getting a none working item. Add that on to what seemed to be rudeness from the shop ("We can't do nothin' for ya, pal") and a few failed attempts to contact you, it was a little heated five hour drive home. But I am aware that mistakes are made each and every day on everyone's part. I have only heard good things about you, Rex. With that in mind, maybe that day was just a perfect storm for a bad day. I apologize for my hasty comments that occurred in the heat of the moment. To my knowledge he as contacted Osprey and while they said it was strange, they will get him a replacement part. Everyone claims you're a stand up guy, and I'm starting to see why. Once again I apologize. Heck, I might even take that ar10 off your hands!
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| I was at the fun show this weekend and walked by their table. I thought it was funny when I heard a customer ask about a certain gun and the guy behind the table (another thing, do they hire only country boys?) said "I don't know nothin about that I hadn't worked in the store for months, I just came to help them with the tables this weekend". So they brought it people who know nothing about anything current in the store and can't answer questions at your large booth about anything in the store. |
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I was at the fun show this weekend and walked by their table. I thought it was funny when I heard a customer ask about a certain gun and the guy behind the table (another thing, do they hire only country boys?) said "I don't know nothin about that I hadn't worked in the store for months, I just came to help them with the tables this weekend". So they brought it people who know nothing about anything current in the store and can't answer questions at your large booth about anything in the store. Mind you its not my store or my booth.It is true they do have some extra hands come with them to help get setup and pack up.They also help to watch the tables.They have what, 15 tables and a bunch of guns? So,yeah it takes some extra help that you wont normally have in the store I guess and have help still at the store on Saturday? |
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Maybe I overreacted on that one. It was a long ten hour around trip to end up getting a none working item. Add that on to what seemed to be rudeness from the shop ("We can't do nothin' for ya, pal") and a few failed attempts to contact you, it was a little heated five hour drive home. But I am aware that mistakes are made each and every day on everyone's part. I have only heard good things about you, Rex. With that in mind, maybe that day was just a perfect storm for a bad day. I apologize for my hasty comments that occurred in the heat of the moment. To my knowledge he as contacted Osprey and while they said it was strange, they will get him a replacement part. Everyone claims you're a stand up guy, and I'm starting to see why. Once again I apologize. Heck, I might even take that ar10 off your hands! No hard feelings.I have not been able to reach him so have him call me.I have the part he needs but I need to know which thread. I got a call Wednesday or Thursday last week that I had paperwork in for him.I said great I will be able to get it to him in time for the weekend.So I called and told him to pick it up.I did not pull it myself and verify it was correct.I thought I was doing him a favor after 5 months.Next time I will wait until I can put my hands on it before I make a call to pick it up.It may delay things another week but thats what I will do before I have someone pick up an item.This wont be a problem in the future.I appologize for the guys there not giving you a part,but they just dont know what exactly they can give out unless I tell them.Some of these NFA laws are silly and they are just being cautious.Sometimes its a fine line. Have him call me so I can send the correct piece. |
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I was at the fun show this weekend and walked by their table. I thought it was funny when I heard a customer ask about a certain gun and the guy behind the table (another thing, do they hire only country boys?) said "I don't know nothin about that I hadn't worked in the store for months, I just came to help them with the tables this weekend". So they brought it people who know nothing about anything current in the store and can't answer questions at your large booth about anything in the store. Mind you its not my store or my booth.It is true they do have some extra hands come with them to help get setup and pack up.They also help to watch the tables.They have what, 15 tables and a bunch of guns? So,yeah it takes some extra help that you wont normally have in the store I guess and have help still at the store on Saturday? Yeah others with big tables bring 4 people and keep their business open. I saw one guy and his girl and their buddy (who I guess were supposed to be working) mostly hanging out shooting the breeze though so that probably explains it. |