Posted: 1/10/2010 6:47:03 AM EDT
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Hello everyone, I'm a Wilton resident who submitted his pistol permit app Nov 10 of 2009, also another family member of mine sumbitted his Nov 3 of 2009. For me, this tuesday will be week 9. I know that there is an 8 week limit however am not nearly well enough informed to even consider pursuing that yet. I normally would not be so antsy, however when I spoke with the detective in charge of my permit two weeks ago he made mention that they had "the settings wrong on their computer" So for two or three weeks none of my papwerwork or assumedly anyone elses get sent into the FBI for a background check. Also to be noted, I have zero record, not even a speeding ticket. So, what does everyone think is this generally the norm? Would it even make sense to call and ask for a sitrep? BTW, it took my mother under three weeks to get her permit a few months ago when we had a different police chief.
Thanks in advance, Steve. |
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WIlton, iirc, is one of those towns that dont like having to give out permits. As such they drag their feet unless you have connections.
I believe the detective fed you a line though I am not really cognizant on how such checks work. I have a friend who works Waterbury PD coming over tonight so I'll ask him about the mystical settings. And good luck trying to impose the 8 week limit- thats been ignored for years by many towns (especially the anti-2A ones). No one has ever sued a city that I know of for violating the 8 week time limit. |
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Connecticut towns are all over the map on timing of Permit processing. My local PD was very helpful (6 years ago) and did not seem to be obstructing the process, and it still took almost 8 weeks. You can get a little more info on the CT hometown part of www.opencarry.org, and the CCDL (Connecticut Citizens Defense League) www.ccdl.us. There is apparently one person in Stratford at about 7 months right now.
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| Thanks for the responses thus far everyone. Tomorow I plan on calling the detective assigned to my application and asking the current status. I have been having some trouble finding the exact legislation regarding the 8 week rule. Does anyone have an online source for that? |
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Quoted:
So, what does everyone think is this generally the norm? . Quoted:
when I spoke with the detective in charge of my permit two weeks ago he made mention that they had "the settings wrong on their computer" You inadvertently answered your own question. In far too many municipalities the officials will shine you on with BS and/or drag their feet. Some helpful resource info can be found here: http://www.ctgunrights.com/ |
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I don't know how much good calling them does, in my case I think it had the opposite effect.
When I turned my app in the nice lady in the records dept told me to call the detectives after 8 - 10 weeks to check on it. Starting at 10 weeks I called every 2 weeks and got a "not ready yet" for 7 months. I still wonder if the detectives got tired of me calling and put my app on the bottom of the pile because a friend of mine put his in 2 weeks after me and had it in 3 months. |
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That's also something I have been taking into account. However, at the end of the day, they legally only have 8 weeks. And I am an outstanding citizen with a pristine record. When I call tomorow I will be polite and well informed, with legislation in hand if necessary, however I believe my main goal will be simply to get a more accurate assessment of the current status beyond that of "pending".
-Steve |
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Quoted:
That's also something I have been taking into account. However, at the end of the day, they legally only have 8 weeks. And I am an outstanding citizen with a pristine record. When I call tomorow I will be polite and well informed, with legislation in hand if necessary, however I believe my main goal will be simply to get a more accurate assessment of the current status beyond that of "pending". -Steve Don't call and push the 8 week issue. If you push it too hard, they could use that as the basis for a suitability denial OR cause the investigating officer to find justification for a suitability denial. Give it a few weeks and inquire regarding the status- but don't bring up that time-limit statute. Your best bet is to play along |
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I live in Wilton as well.
Call them, be polite and ask about the status. There is no problem with that at all. Wilton will give you your permit. While slow, they are not one of these screw your citizen towns at all. (except on your taxes!!!!!!!!!) There is another member here who is WPD. He may chime in here at some point. |
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I completely agree that for the most part the Wilton Police Force are generally good guys. In fact I regularly shoot with a recently retired Sergeant (you may also know him). I just ended up leaving a message with the detective because he was not working today, politely asking for a status update on my permit application.
-Steve |
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Then I stand corrected. Didn't mean to jump down your throat, dude. Wilton P.D. does have a checklist of hoops to jump through for pistol permits and NFA signoffs, just to have some organized process in place. You have to make an appointment with (a very nice) detective, typically on a weeknight, to get processed and fingerprinted. Thankfully, Wilton PD uses digital fingerprints which are much faster than ink. Where the dep't might go off the beaten path is if a married female applies for a pistol permit (for example, without the husband's knowledge). Then they might do some more digging (e.g., interview neighbors) to make sure there isn't any domestic violence going on. More often than not, you'll then go into the Chief who will personally hand you your (temporary) pistol permit. Which, I think, is kinda cool, it's not too often you get to meet your police chief. |
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I'm in Trumbull, and it took 8 weeks almost to the day. They seemed like great guys for the most part. When I went for my fingerprinting, the detective didn't have any appreciation for "assault weapons", but I let that slide and didn't argue with him, discretion being the better part of valor.
Because I'm new to the state, the detective who was doing my background check actually called me to see if I had any local references. I gave him a couple of names. He seemed genuinely interested in getting me squared away within the 8 weeks. Both detectives said there were only three or four investigators, and the sheer volume of applications was the reason for the slowness of the process. They have to fit this in with their other duties. |
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As I mentioned I called my assigned detective yesterday and left a message. He promptly returned my call at 0830 today which I was very pleased about. Nonetheless though, there is no update other than that he is still waiting on the FBI's background check. So taking into account the "computer error" and the 8-10 weeks that most people seem to have been waiting I would guess I'm looking at another 4-5 weeks. There really isn't much I can do now though except hurry up and wait. The detective has been very pleasant to work with regardless of the outcome.
-Steve |
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Quoted: I'm in Trumbull, and it took 8 weeks almost to the day. They seemed like great guys for the most part. When I went for my fingerprinting, the detective didn't have any appreciation for "assault weapons", but I let that slide and didn't argue with him, discretion being the better part of valor. Because I'm new to the state, the detective who was doing my background check actually called me to see if I had any local references. I gave him a couple of names. He seemed genuinely interested in getting me squared away within the 8 weeks. Both detectives said there were only three or four investigators, and the sheer volume of applications was the reason for the slowness of the process. They have to fit this in with their other duties. i know in trumball they do face to face interviews with the neighbors and references you give. a friend is a trumball cop. |
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Here's the statute:
Sec. 29-28a. Application for permit. Notice of decision to applicant. (a) Requests for temporary state permits under section 29-28 shall be submitted to the chief of police, or, where there is no chief of police, to the warden of the borough or the first selectman of the town, as the case may be, on application forms prescribed by the Commissioner of Public Safety. Upon written request by any person for a temporary state permit not on a prescribed application form, or upon request by any person for such application form, the local authority shall supply such forms. When any such request is made in person at the office of the local authority, the local authority shall supply such application form immediately. When any such request is made in any other manner, the local authority shall supply such application form not later than one week after receiving such request. If such application form is not supplied within the time limits required by this section, the request therefor shall constitute a sufficient application. If any local authority fails to supply an application form upon the request of any person, such person may request an application form from the Commissioner of Public Safety or any barracks of the Division of State Police, and the time limits and procedures set forth in this section for handling requests for such forms shall be applicable. (b) The local authority shall, not later than eight weeks after a sufficient application for a temporary state permit has been made, inform the applicant that such applicant's request for a temporary state permit has been approved or denied. The local authority shall forward a copy of the application indicating approval or denial of the temporary state permit to the Commissioner of Public Safety. If the local authority has denied the application for a temporary state permit, no state permit may be issued. The commissioner shall, not later than eight weeks after receiving an application indicating approval from the local authority, inform the applicant in writing that the applicant's application for a state permit has been approved or denied, or that the results of the national criminal history records check have not been received. If grounds for denial become known after a temporary state permit has been obtained, the temporary state permit shall be immediately revoked pursuant to section 29-32. This was put into the statutes because some chiefs were playing games and jerking people around. Unfortunately, there's no penalty for violations. |
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Never heard of 8 week timeline and I think the chief has other things to do he/she as a priority The 8 week time frame is stated in the following state statue regarding pistol permits. Sec. 29-28a. Application for permit. Notice of decision to applicant. (b) The local authority shall, not later than eight weeks after a sufficient application for a temporary state permit has been made, inform the applicant that such applicant's request for a temporary state permit has been approved or denied.
The 8 weeks is routinely ignored by some towns and cities. Others will come in under the 8 week period. The larger cities are the worst and tend to take the longest. New Haven took three days shy of 6 months for my permit application. They used a variety of reasons why the permit was taking so long. The reasons included; "we do the applications in batches and yours is in the next batch", "we only have one person who handles the applications and they only work part time and are not in today", "we are waiting for the background check from the FBI", and "the permits are on the chief's desk awaiting their signature". Others had long delays due to "finger print card issues" and had to get their fingerprints redone several times. There are basically two things to do if your issuing authority goes past the 8 week period. One is to wait it out. If you pass all the legal requirements you will eventually get the permit. Second option is to file a complaint, which may take a year or more to before it's heard, with Board of Firearms Permit Examiners. They are well aware of these delaying tactics and with towns who tack on extra requirements like interviews and letters of recommendation (or what ever they choose to call them). A third and probably very expensive and time consuming option is to get a lawyer and try to sue and get the courts involved in speeding up the process. Here are the questions New Haven asked me when the asked that I come in for an interview on the application for the permit. Do you own any guns and what kind are they?
Any domestic problems? Ever been arrested? Any problems with your neighbors? Ever had a permit before? Asked what pistol course I took (ask if it was NRA)? Asked how long living in city? Asked where work and address? Asked why I wanted a pistol permit? I was very uncomfortable with the question about the do I own any guns and what kind where they. I also was concerned that they'd interview my neighbors since other folks in other towns have reported that the police called their neighbors and employer to inform them about a person wanting a pistol permit. I was concerned that if my neighbors knew I might experience a break-in or other issues. And some may have issues if their boss or place of employment finds out they are trying to get a pistol permit. |
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As mentioned there has been an extraordinary influx of applications to all of the towns and burgs in CT just as there has been across the country. The NRA even said that permit kits ordered by instructors for all of 2008 was surpassed very early in 2009! The influx of applications has been noted everywhere. Even in NH, a state that usually turns around non-res apps in a couple of weeks is taking many many months....as many as 5 months......to turn around applications. Usually most towns only have one or two employees handling the apps. Flooding them with thousands of apps just bogged the system down. So, while the 8 week turnaround is still advertised here in CT, chances are that in the town you applied there has been an exponential increase in traffic and that's causing the delays.
Add that to some of the hoops that regularly foot-dragging cities insist on adding and you've got a recipe for real delays that can extend too many months. Also, regarding referrals and references, I've been working in the background with my State Senator Kissel to have some of those terrible invasions of privacy removed. I have made some progress as the two Chiefs that represent the State Chiefs of Police organization in CT who did agree with me that asking references if "Bob Jones should have a pistol permit issued" is an invasion of privacy. This is especially true when interviewing employers or neighbors. They were going to take my suggestions to the body of their membership and discuss a policy change that would eliminate any mention of "handgun permit" when interviewing any references or neighbors. They feel they have the right to do reference checks pursuant to the "suitability clause" but I argued that even mentioning firearms was an invasion of an applicant's privacy. I'm continuing to pursue that angle further with Senator Kissel's help. I'm hoping that at least that this one change can be implemented state-wide. The wheels of these bureaucracies move very slowly, however, as you might imagine. Rest assured that this is still an active case. Still, many if not most towns in CT follow the State's stated process without the need for all these extraneous demands of referrals, letters, and interviews. It won't go away but we can at least rest assured the applicants won't have their intentions of obtaining firearms permits won't be discussed during any interviews. If I do win this one, small battle, it will be illegal for a LEO or detective from disclosing the reason of the interview or referral and, I imagine, could be an actionable event for any applicant to file a complaint. Just look at the current situation in all 50 states. Firearms are flying out the door at every shop. Cabela's in E. Htfd has people there 3 deep some days. Ammo still remains backlogged although that situation seems to be relaxing slightly. You all know that manufacturers of firearms still have huge backlogs, too, as the demand as well out-stripped the supply. America is arming itself, fellas. Those who got in early have had few issues. Those coming in later in the game are suffering delays due to the load being put on the system. How long this will continue remains to be seen. I'd bet, however, that after the November mid-term elections, things will slow down a bit if the super-majority in the Senate and House can be removed. Rome |
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Thanks, I can reference it now. Guess the "shall" holds a different meaning than "must" Unfortunately many people think that CT is a "shall issue" state. Were are not, we are actually a "may issue" state due to the "suitability clause". That clause allows the local issuing authority to deny the application if they find the applicant "unsuitable". |
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Just thought I would post up, still no news on my end. This tuesday will be the eleven week mark for myself and over 12 for my father. I went shooting with my room mates yesterday and shot some clays as well as pistols at my buddies farm. We had a blast (pun intended) however it also reminded me that I'm still waiting on the red tape to clear. So my question now is how did the gentleman in Shelton receive his permit after 5 1/2 weeks? Do they not run an FBI background check? I also find it hard to believe that the Wilton detectives are that busy seeing as that I know at least four of them work on permits and that it is two different detectives assigned to my father and myself. The only thing they are going to see in my background check is that I attended USMC OCS last summer and that I have never in my life been given a ticket.
Someone throw me a pity party please 
-Steve |
| My father lives in CT in Farmington and he recieved his after 7 1/2 weeks. Not sure, I certainly hope their not dicking you around on purpose or something. Do you know anyone else in town you can ask about this? All towns are different and yours could be a tough one? As stated in earlier replies I wouldn't push the matter, just play along and keep calling politely onece every week or two as to the "status" of your paperwork. |
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Here's what I learned today. This is a response to an email from my father earlier in the week requesting an update on his permit (filed a week or so before me). He was one of two people copied on this email, not too happy about the detective sending out both of our last names to myself and the other party, nonetheless at least he is trying to straighten this out for us.
Mr. My dad & Mr. Otherguy. I spoke to the FBI and the State there was a data entry issue for your fingerprints. I have sent a written request for the FBI’s response to the State of CT. Hopefully we should have an answer soon. This happens from time to time with submissions and the two of you were submitted at the same time. I will keep you both informed It's assumed that my prints were also in this batch, so on monday I will call or this weekend I will send an email to my detective asking if he can do more than just tell me he hasn't heard back yet, since that obviously isn't going to be entirely productive. Just wanted to keep everyone updated. -S |
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burr i think your town is stroking everyone
how can town A get it done in a (semi) timely manner and town B be grossly incompetent (or appear to be) and blame the other government agencies for the hold up sounds like this is town B way of just not issuing them (trying to keep control over it citizens) there hoping youll get discussed and walk away from the application to me didnt the law pass where the local agencies arent allowed to do there own requirements any longer? thought this might help your situation good luck and stick it out for the long run |
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I am familiar with the BFPE letter that was sent out. Unfortunately I think it's only application in my case is possibly in regards to the meeting I am mandated to have with the Chief of Police. My understanding is that this is more informal than anything else. In the case of an older gentleman I know who recently got his permit, he was asked why he wanted it, and how long he had lived in town for. After that he was handed his temporary permit. In the case of his son however, who has no record other than a few speeding tickets, he was asked why he wanted it and further if he intended on carrying around Wilton, and why he would think he needed to carry in Wilton. He responded that it was mainly for range duty and refrained from a smart ass response.
The state is allowed a background check, whether or not this meeting falls under that I am unsure. -S |
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I wonder when the petition by the CCDL to the Board of Examiner's edict will be circulated and take effect. It's evident that it still hasn't impacted the permits under consideration as exemplified here. While your Chief doesn't sound like he's being a hard-ass unlike some of the other departments have been, asking for reasons to carry are meant to intimidate and entrap someone from just giving the examiner a reason to revoke a permit.
Rome |
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Well, as of last thursday, over a week ago, I had left a message with my detective requesting the status of my permit and informing him that I would be in town this weekend and today. So far I have not heard back from him. So, today I stopped by the police department and attempted to speak with the alternate detective who as of recently has been handling my permit as well as my father's. He told me that as of last week the FBI had no proof or record of ever receiving my finger prints or my father's, or another gentleman whom I mentioned earlier. So a week ago he sent in a written request asking them to find it. My understanding is that the state finger printing check as well as the FBI were sent out at the same time by the same means and that the state did indeed work.
When I spoke to him though I asked about further action, and any timeframe and his response was that he was waiting on the FBI and wasn't sure. He phrased it though by stating that he didn't enjoy having these fingerprint check files open and that since it's a government function that I had to just wait around. He made it clear that he would contact me as soon as he heard anything. To this I responded that I had been waiting 15 weeks and was wondering if there was anything I could do on my end to help expedite the process. The conversation again ended with me biting my tongue and learning only that essentially, they never got my finger prints to the FBI on time. What rubs me the wrong way was his apparent lack of concern for my consitutional rights being put to the wayside. As well as the fact that I have been calling since as early as week 6 asking politely to please verify the status of my application. Gee do you think if maybe someone had taken the time to make a phone call and see that there was something wrong that maybe we could have found out I don't know.... two months ago? The only options I have now are to bend over and take it or to sue. Being a young man in school I do not have the financial means for the latter option. What say you? |
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No, those aren't your only options. You can also file a complaint with the state Board of Firearms Permit Examiners. The good news is that it won't cost you anything. The bad news is that they are badly backlogged and you probably won't get a hearing for a year or more.
http://www.ct.gov/BFPE/site/default.asp In defense of the detective you spoke with, what exactly is he supposed to do about your constitutional rights? What I'm getting from your post is that this guy is trying to clean up the mess left by the other guy. You don't know if they failed to send out the prionts or if the FBI lost them. In either case, he's at the bottom of the food chain and has no power to do anything about it. If you want to speak to someone about solutions, go talk to the mayor or First Selectman or whatever you have in your town. They are the ones that have to please the voters and respond to complaints. Ragging on the guy at the bottom might feel good, but it won't accomplish much. |
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The 8 week time frame is stated in the following state statue regarding pistol permits.
Sec. 29-28a. Application for permit. Notice of decision to applicant. Thanks, I can reference it now. Guess the "shall" holds a different meaning than "must" Connecticut is not shall isuue.... |
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I bet you would of had your permit by now if you had never bothered them in the first place. I don't think so because my father and another gentleman are in the same situation, and I know for a fact that my father never called to ask for a status update until he reached week 14 or so. At which point detective #2 realized the problem. Furthermore, they still hold responsibility for the fact that around week 8 or so I asked what the status was and was told the local PD had a "computer issue" on their end and that my prints had not made it to the FBI for certain. That was from an impromptu conversation I had with detective #1 while accompanying my friend to drop off his paperwork for a Utah permit. I understand that they may not be completely responsible, however they are not without blame. And if they wanted to, they could do as the law states and issue me my permit in accordance to the 8 week rule. |
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Good News !
From detective to me, I was able to make contact with someone at the State Police in Middletown. They advised me that they DID receive the prints from the FBI, but that, from time to time, the FBI only sends their results to the State Police, but NOT to the town. It appeared to them that this was the case here, as his records showed that the FBI never sent them to us. Meeting with the chief monday. So it looks like, a day short of 16 weeks, ouch. Just glad the wait is over. |
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Well as of now I'll be transferring a 1911 and a G19 from a family member to myself. The first real purchase will likely a .357 smith. I guess I should try and figure out whether to do the transfer at JoJos, a friend of mine with an FFL, or just at home.... -S As long as you both are Connecticut residents, the most economical way to go about it would be to handle the paperwork between you two and not involve and FFL. You'll be paying a lot for no gain. |
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Yeah, I will most likely end up doing it at home. The FFL would be free though just because it is a friend of mine not in the firearms industry but who happens to have one. It looks like I just need to fill out some forms though and send them to the proper authorities as well as call the SLFU.
http://www.ct.gov/dps/cwp/view.asp?Q=294488 |