[ARCHIVED THREAD] - AR trigger (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 1/17/2012 10:30:54 PM EDT
| OK...so I have this AR15 that I've tricked out to the point I'm over $4k invested already and I was wondering if I should swap the trigger out for a Timney or something. I don't know squat about AR triggers except that everything I've read says they are terrible from the factory (mines a Colt LE6920 if that makes any difference) ...so, should I trick the trigger too or are the stock triggers not as bad as I've read? |
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I've got stock fcg with very light polish, trimmed the tail off the hammer to lighten it a bit and moly lube on the contact points with the JP yellow (3#) springs in some rifles and a timney 3# in my varmint/paperpunching rifle.
the yellow springs help out quite a bit and I've had no issue with any kind of ammo; the timney is just plain nice. |
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I've used the 15 minute trigger job on numerous ARs. I've also used the JP yellow springs that the others were talking about.
I see no reason to spend $175 to $230 for a trigger for an AR. http://www.sargenthome.com/15_Minute_AR_Trigger_Job.htm |
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I've used the 15 minute trigger job on numerous ARs. I've also used the JP yellow springs that the others were talking about. I see no reason to spend $175 to $230 for a trigger for an AR. http://www.sargenthome.com/15_Minute_AR_Trigger_Job.htm while I've got both, the timney trigger I've got has a very different feel (ie no trigger creep) to it compared to a stock fcg with yellow springs even though both have a pull weight of 3#; the install for either set up is approx the same. of course $10 yellow springs sets are a lot cheaper than the $175 I gave for the timney hence the reason I've got multiple yellow spring set ups vs. a single timney trigger. of course you can always do the mod to the lower (ala superior arms) that puts the set screw through the pistol grip screw to adjust over travel/creep on a stock fcg and get the same feel. I can't tell the difference in trigger pull between the superior arms lower with stock fcg/yellow spring set up and the lower with the timney trigger installed that I have. |
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I have a couple of different triggers besides "stock USGI" & "tweaked USGI" units
Wilson Combat TTU 4lb single stage, it has no creep period, a very crisp break along with a quick reset *my favorite semi trigger, but I haven't had the chance to play with a Geissele SD-3G yet. Geissele SSF - it is like a 2-stage trigger in semi and single stage in auto *my favorite select fire trigger* |
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I've got JP springs (yellow) in all my ARs except the 22LR AR, in addition my 2 long range ARs both have JP triggers in them, and the hammer spurs removed to improve lock time. The JP springs help tremendously, but they do nothing for the grating creep in the take up, the JP triggers are adjustable and eliminate that, but they do require installation and adjustment, which does require some skill, while the Timney trigger mentioned is essentially a drop in unit. |
| I have had everything from the stock GI style FCG to the Timney that I am using now. For me, remind you this is for me, the Timney has been the best performer thus far. I have felt the AR Gold and the Geiselle and they both are nice and I hope to shoot them sometime in the near future. One thing to remember is the lighter triggers are not for everyone as some shooters need to master the heavy GI FCG first to really enjoy the nice FCG of those mentioned thus far. |
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Have you shot it yet? You are giving us other people’s opinion of the trigger instead of yours. What you think of the trigger is more important them what other people think. I've shot it many times and I've never had a problem with the trigger but then I've never shot an AR with one of these replacement triggers either so I have no idea if they are better or not, hence asking you guys who may have had such experience. I think after reading all ya'lls input I'll keep the stock trigger for now...I can always change it later if need be. Thanksya's 
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| I have JP triggers in both of my rifles they break around 4.5 pounds I have shot some that are 3 pounds that are just sweet. I can tell a big difference between the stock fcg and the aftermarket. The JPs take alot of the creep out of the trigger. If you are thinking about upgrading I would talk to someone who has an aftermarket fcg and see if you can try theirs. I could also tell a pretty big difference just putting the lightened JP springs in like some of the others mentioned you can get those for right around ten bucks I believe. |
| I recently purchased a cmc "tactical drop in trigger group" for $150 from midway; it pulls #3.5 but has some creep to it; I haven't shot it much yet, but I plan to; it's no where near as nice as the timney, the timney as a very minor amount of creep, the cmc while not as "creepy" as a stock fcg has more than I feel a aftermarket unit should. |
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I recently purchased a cmc "tactical drop in trigger group" for $150 from midway; it pulls #3.5 but has some creep to it; I haven't shot it much yet, but I plan to; it's no where near as nice as the timney, the timney as a very minor amount of creep, the cmc while not as "creepy" as a stock fcg has more than I feel a aftermarket unit should. I just practically cringe when people talk about spending that kind of money on a trigger. I once had a H&K 91 that had a trigger that felt like were pulling a concrete block across railroad ties. I got it smoothed out till it broke like a hard piece of peppermint stick. It was crisp as hell but broke at 5 lbs. It wasn't a two stage trigger pull of course. But the rifle was accurate and I made a chunk of money off of it. I've had set triggers, two stage triggers, and regular triggers. I guess I prefer a two stage above everything else on iron sights but not behind a scope. I've shot a Geiselle trigger in an AR which is supposedly the very best you can get. I wasn't impressed enough to spend the money on drop in custom trigger. But I do believe there must be something to them if Brother L will spend the money on one. 
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I recently purchased a cmc "tactical drop in trigger group" for $150 from midway; it pulls #3.5 but has some creep to it; I haven't shot it much yet, but I plan to; it's no where near as nice as the timney, the timney as a very minor amount of creep, the cmc while not as "creepy" as a stock fcg has more than I feel a aftermarket unit should. I just practically cringe when people talk about spending that kind of money on a trigger. I once had a H&K 91 that had a trigger that felt like were pulling a concrete block across railroad ties. I got it smoothed out till it broke like a hard piece of peppermint stick. It was crisp as hell but broke at 5 lbs. It wasn't a two stage trigger pull of course. But the rifle was accurate and I made a chunk of money off of it. I've had set triggers, two stage triggers, and regular triggers. I guess I prefer a two stage above everything else on iron sights but not behind a scope. I've shot a Geiselle trigger in an AR which is supposedly the very best you can get. I wasn't impressed enough to spend the money on drop in custom trigger. But I do believe there must be something to them if Brother L will spend the money on one.
I'm not impressed wtih the cmc "tatical" trigger drop in, I've read reviews that people posted that said they broke clean/crisp, but that's not my experience with the one I've got; course I haven't shot it yet so maybe they improve with use, but right now it feels not a whole lot different from the stock fcg with yellow springs installed; don't own no stock or recieve free triggers from timney but I'd recommend one of them before I recommend a cmc; from first impressions of the cmc means I'll save up the $180 and buy another timney or do without before I buy another cmc drop in "tactical" trigger group. |
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I put a Spike's Tactical Battle Trigger in my AR I just put together...
It's nickel boron coated, and has very little creep... Advertised break is at about 5-8 lbs, but I haven't tested it with a scale. I think I will like it once I get used to the mil-spec pull weight ETA: it was about $55 |
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I put a Spike's Tactical Battle Trigger in my AR I just put together... It's nickel boron coated, and has very little creep... Advertised break is at about 5-8 lbs, but I haven't tested it with a scale. I think I will like it once I get used to the mil-spec pull weight ETA: it was about $55 put some yellow springs in it and give us a aar |
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I recently purchased a cmc "tactical drop in trigger group" for $150 from midway; it pulls #3.5 but has some creep to it; I haven't shot it much yet, but I plan to; it's no where near as nice as the timney, the timney as a very minor amount of creep, the cmc while not as "creepy" as a stock fcg has more than I feel a aftermarket unit should. I just practically cringe when people talk about spending that kind of money on a trigger. I once had a H&K 91 that had a trigger that felt like were pulling a concrete block across railroad ties. I got it smoothed out till it broke like a hard piece of peppermint stick. It was crisp as hell but broke at 5 lbs. It wasn't a two stage trigger pull of course. But the rifle was accurate and I made a chunk of money off of it. I've had set triggers, two stage triggers, and regular triggers. I guess I prefer a two stage above everything else on iron sights but not behind a scope. I've shot a Geiselle trigger in an AR which is supposedly the very best you can get. I wasn't impressed enough to spend the money on drop in custom trigger. But I do believe there must be something to them if Brother L will spend the money on one.
I'm not impressed wtih the cmc "tatical" trigger drop in, I've read reviews that people posted that said they broke clean/crisp, but that's not my experience with the one I've got; course I haven't shot it yet so maybe they improve with use, but right now it feels not a whole lot different from the stock fcg with yellow springs installed; don't own no stock or recieve free triggers from timney but I'd recommend one of them before I recommend a cmc; from first impressions of the cmc means I'll save up the $180 and buy another timney or do without before I buy another cmc drop in "tactical" trigger group. I'll spend the money on a JP spring set a lot sooner than I would a high dollar trigger. A little polishing with JB Bore Paste will also make a lot of difference. I have found that switching one trigger set up from one receiver to another doesn't assure you will get the same trigger pull. Believe it or not, a simple thousandth difference in the axis holes on the receiver will noticeably change the trigger pull. I bought some K&N non rotating pins to put in my Colt and it jammed up the works. The secondary sear wouldn't release. I used the 155 instead of the 154 K&N set. The pins I had in the Colt were the oversized 155s and they worked fine. The K&N pins worked fine on my Rock River though. 
A smooth flat steel surface and springs will do more for a stock trigger/hammer engagement/trigger pull far more cheaply than putting in a high dollar trigger to my way of thinking. |
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I recently purchased a cmc "tactical drop in trigger group" for $150 from midway; it pulls #3.5 but has some creep to it; I haven't shot it much yet, but I plan to; it's no where near as nice as the timney, the timney as a very minor amount of creep, the cmc while not as "creepy" as a stock fcg has more than I feel a aftermarket unit should. I just practically cringe when people talk about spending that kind of money on a trigger. I once had a H&K 91 that had a trigger that felt like were pulling a concrete block across railroad ties. I got it smoothed out till it broke like a hard piece of peppermint stick. It was crisp as hell but broke at 5 lbs. It wasn't a two stage trigger pull of course. But the rifle was accurate and I made a chunk of money off of it. I've had set triggers, two stage triggers, and regular triggers. I guess I prefer a two stage above everything else on iron sights but not behind a scope. I've shot a Geiselle trigger in an AR which is supposedly the very best you can get. I wasn't impressed enough to spend the money on drop in custom trigger. But I do believe there must be something to them if Brother L will spend the money on one.
I'm not impressed wtih the cmc "tatical" trigger drop in, I've read reviews that people posted that said they broke clean/crisp, but that's not my experience with the one I've got; course I haven't shot it yet so maybe they improve with use, but right now it feels not a whole lot different from the stock fcg with yellow springs installed; don't own no stock or recieve free triggers from timney but I'd recommend one of them before I recommend a cmc; from first impressions of the cmc means I'll save up the $180 and buy another timney or do without before I buy another cmc drop in "tactical" trigger group. I'll spend the money on a JP spring set a lot sooner than I would a high dollar trigger. A little polishing with JB Bore Paste will also make a lot of difference. I have found that switching one trigger set up from one receiver to another doesn't assure you will get the same trigger pull. Believe it or not, a simple thousandth difference in the axis holes on the receiver will noticeably change the trigger pull. I bought some K&N non rotating pins to put in my Colt and it jammed up the works. The secondary sear wouldn't release. I used the 155 instead of the 154 K&N set. The pins I had in the Colt were the oversized 155s and they worked fine. The K&N pins worked fine on my Rock River though.
A smooth flat steel surface and springs will do more for a stock trigger/hammer engagement/trigger pull far more cheaply than putting in a high dollar trigger to my way of thinking. well yeah, you're talking $10 springs with a slight bit of polishing with a rubber dremal wheel vs $150+ trigger group; the one thing a stock fcg can't match most of the time is the clean crisp break without much creep, unless you do the grip screw mod (this isn't necessary if you've got a superior arms lower); if you mod the fcg engagement surfaces you get a decent creep free trigger pull at the expence of reliability cause it will fail prq if you shoot it much since you've polished/ground through the surface's hardfacing. the jard trigger groups are great too, I've had one but the model I had took a bit of setup and in my 10 it wouldn't set off the surplus ammo with 100% reliability; so I removed it and reinstalled the stock armalite fcg; if this cmc don't work in the 10, I'll buy one of the timney units made for the 10, but the ad for the cmc said it was made to work in the 10 platform in addition to the 15 platform so I'll find out if it works. don't get me wrong I been harping the yellow springs for the last 8+ years, I like them and they are an excellent value for upgrade improvement per dollar spent for somebody on a budget or just wanting to improve the stock fcg pull; but they are of little comparison to the feel of an aftermarket trigger group if said trigger group works as advertized. and the yellow hammer spring won't work in the ar10 platform reliably, they just don't have enough umph to set off a large rifle primer. there is a red spring kit that supposidly hits with a bit more power than the yellows do, but I've never tried them. |
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well yeah, you're talking $10 springs with a slight bit of polishing with a rubber dremal wheel vs $150+ trigger group; the one thing a stock fcg can't match most of the time is the clean crisp break without much creep, unless you do the grip screw mod (this isn't necessary if you've got a superior arms lower); They sell a grip screw with a set screw through the middle to set the trigger close. It's an 8-32 instead of a 1/4-28 to adjust the trigger. It works but it's $40 I believe. if you mod the fcg engagement surfaces you get a decent creep free trigger pull at the expence of reliability cause it will fail prq if you shoot it much since you've polished/ground through the surface's hardfacing. It's damned easy to get through that surface hardness with a stone. Fine grit and a cloth wheel on a dremel won't get it that hot. A cratex wheel can but you really have to push it. the jard trigger groups are great too, I've had one but the model I had took a bit of setup and in my 10 it wouldn't set off the surplus ammo with 100% reliability; so I removed it and reinstalled the stock armalite fcg; if this cmc don't work in the 10, I'll buy one of the timney units made for the 10, but the ad for the cmc said it was made to work in the 10 platform in addition to the 15 platform so I'll find out if it works. don't get me wrong I been harping the yellow springs for the last 8+ years, I like them and they are an excellent value for upgrade improvement per dollar spent for somebody on a budget or just wanting to improve the stock fcg pull; but they are of little comparison to the feel of an aftermarket trigger group if said trigger group works as advertized. I'm just a cheap jerk who doesn't appreciate the cost differential for what you get with some of those high dollar triggers. and the yellow hammer spring won't work in the ar10 platform reliably, they just don't have enough umph to set off a large rifle primer. All I can tell you is to get a M1A.
there is a red spring kit that supposidly hits with a bit more power than the yellows do, but I've never tried them. If anybody could make it work, I'm sure you're the man. 
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Their a lot of aftermarket stuff you just dont need , Rock River 2 stage is a good all around bench and hunting trigger no creep
Not to light in the trigger pull ,liked my Tinmy for off the bench but walking in the woods I would keep it on SAFE with a 3lb pull and breakes over in .030in a bad could happen real fast ,it has it place . I have done the 15min spring job and help in wt but lot of work in polishing parts ,just cant see spending that Kind of money on a set of yellow spring |
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Their a lot of aftermarket stuff you just dont need , Rock River 2 stage is a good all around bench and hunting trigger no creep Not to light in the trigger pull ,liked my Tinmy for off the bench but walking in the woods I would keep it on SAFE with a 3lb pull and breakes over in .030in a bad could happen real fast ,it has it place . I have done the 15min spring job and help in wt but lot of work in polishing parts ,just cant see spending that Kind of money on a set of yellow spring I've done both - the 15 min trigger job and the yellow springs. The yellow springs are better V. Worth the money. |
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Their a lot of aftermarket stuff you just dont need , Rock River 2 stage is a good all around bench and hunting trigger no creep Not to light in the trigger pull ,liked my Tinmy for off the bench but walking in the woods I would keep it on SAFE with a 3lb pull and breakes over in .030in a bad could happen real fast ,it has it place . I have done the 15min spring job and help in wt but lot of work in polishing parts ,just cant see spending that Kind of money on a set of yellow spring I've got bolt rifles with much lighter/shorter pulls than the timney drop in AR trigger; been hunting with them for years, they along with the timney's don't magically go off by themselves, they got to be depressed/pulled first .
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I've got the JP Rifles trigger in 2 of my AR's, it breaks at about 3.5 lbs after the trigger is broken in. The JP Rifles trigger comes as just a trigger, which I got, or a kit with trigger and hammer. It takes a bit more fiddling adjustments to install than the drop in triggers like the Chip McCormick, and sometimes you have to adjust the disconnector on them, I had to adjust the disconnector on one of my rifles but not the other. If a person is mechanically competent and knows the AR fire control system the JP isn't hard to install, but some might not want to go to the trouble. I've also bobbed the hammer on several of my AR's, the "speed hammer" modification, it lowers the mass of the hammer a bit and speeds up lock time a bit. A fairly nice trigger can be obtained by some judicious polishing and a set of JP Rifles reduced power (yellow) springs. |
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Their a lot of aftermarket stuff you just dont need , Rock River 2 stage is a good all around bench and hunting trigger no creep Not to light in the trigger pull ,liked my Tinmy for off the bench but walking in the woods I would keep it on SAFE with a 3lb pull and breakes over in .030in a bad could happen real fast ,it has it place . I have done the 15min spring job and help in wt but lot of work in polishing parts ,just cant see spending that Kind of money on a set of yellow spring I've got bolt rifles with much lighter/shorter pulls than the timney drop in AR trigger; been hunting with them for years, they along with the timney's don't magically go off by themselves, they got to be depressed/pulled first .
Brush , that all  .....................
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Their a lot of aftermarket stuff you just dont need , Rock River 2 stage is a good all around bench and hunting trigger no creep Not to light in the trigger pull ,liked my Tinmy for off the bench but walking in the woods I would keep it on SAFE with a 3lb pull and breakes over in .030in a bad could happen real fast ,it has it place . I have done the 15min spring job and help in wt but lot of work in polishing parts ,just cant see spending that Kind of money on a set of yellow spring I've got bolt rifles with much lighter/shorter pulls than the timney drop in AR trigger; been hunting with them for years, they along with the timney's don't magically go off by themselves, they got to be depressed/pulled first .
Brush , that all .....................
who walks around the woods with the safety's disengaged until they're ready to shoot?
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I do , right or left index finger is my safety,
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I learned that some people think after market triggers are a waste of money, some think high dollar triggers are the only way to go, some people think replacing some spring is best and one guy seemed almost disgusted that I have over $4K in my AR and haven't swapped the trigger yet. Oh and I got the impression some people didn't think I even had such a gun lol.
All in all...I think that I will swap out the trigger next time I have an influx of money. Oh, and I learned I'll have someone else do it when the time comes. I'm not comfortable doing it myself...yeah, I know it's no big project but I swapped the grip myself so there. :P |
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I learned that some people think after market triggers are a waste of money, some think high dollar triggers are the only way to go, some people think replacing some spring is best and one guy seemed almost disgusted that I have over $4K in my AR and haven't swapped the trigger yet. Oh and I got the impression some people didn't think I even had such a gun lol. All in all...I think that I will swap out the trigger next time I have an influx of money. Oh, and I learned I'll have someone else do it when the time comes. I'm not comfortable doing it myself...yeah, I know it's no big project but I swapped the grip myself so there. :P Its not really hard to do just do some reading on the subject ,just changing the spring out will change the trigger pull wt but will not take out the creep when you pull The trigger , just pull the trigger on Colt slowly and you understand what trigger creep is. |
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I learned that some people think after market triggers are a waste of money, some think high dollar triggers are the only way to go, some people think replacing some spring is best and one guy seemed almost disgusted that I have over $4K in my AR and haven't swapped the trigger yet. Oh and I got the impression some people didn't think I even had such a gun lol. All in all...I think that I will swap out the trigger next time I have an influx of money. Oh, and I learned I'll have someone else do it when the time comes. I'm not comfortable doing it myself...yeah, I know it's no big project but I swapped the grip myself so there. :P Its not really hard to do just do some reading on the subject ,just changing the spring out will change the trigger pull wt but will not take out the creep when you pull The trigger , just pull the trigger on Colt slowly and you understand what trigger creep is. On my 6551 Colt you can see the hammer move back ever so slightly.
Using the screw (grip screw hole) to adjust take up fixed that. One day I'll pick up some extra hammers and triggers, do a little metal work and do away with the adjustment screw.
They are cheap enough if you mess up you're not out a lot of money. ETA Brandi, if we (your friend, you, and me) ever take your 1873 Springfield to OKC Gun Club, bring your AR. I can change the springs out in a few minutes. You can order them from Brownells or pick some up at Cold Hand Arms. I got some there for a friend's AR and they were about $16 or so. Brownells has them for a little less but shipping will eat you up unless you order other items you may need. They are about $10 from Brownells. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=7582/Product/AR-15-REDUCED-POWER-SPRING-KIT 
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I learned that some people think after market triggers are a waste of money, some think high dollar triggers are the only way to go, some people think replacing some spring is best and one guy seemed almost disgusted that I have over $4K in my AR and haven't swapped the trigger yet. Oh and I got the impression some people didn't think I even had such a gun lol. All in all...I think that I will swap out the trigger next time I have an influx of money. Oh, and I learned I'll have someone else do it when the time comes. I'm not comfortable doing it myself...yeah, I know it's no big project but I swapped the grip myself so there. :P 
if you've swapped out the grip you're more than capable of swapping out the fcg 
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yep, the cmc trigger is advertized as working in the AR10 platform; while it may install just like any other unit; it had a approx 20% failure ratio this afternoon with 40 rounds of SA surplus ammo; Goddamned light primer strikes.
so out it went and the stock fcg went back in. but it worked fine in a ar15 besides having quite a bit of creep to it; at least there were no light primer strikes through 60 rounds of LC. guess the ar10 specific timney unit is on my short list of upgrades. |
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OK, so assuming money isn't an issue and I wanted to replace the trigger with the best possible after market trigger....which one should I buy? Keeping in mind the rifle is for home defense and target shooting so some crazy 1.5 # trigger break isn't an option.
What say ye? And thanks Dan. Supposedly it should be back in my hands in a week. And hell yes, I'll bring my AR and my Winnie 94 and my .357 mag (and if i'm really lucky and it arrives in time, my STI Elektra) and my friend will have her AR and her Kimber Ultra and her Glock and her new S&W M&P .22 pistol that's she's jonesing to shoot for the first time....woohoo, if you have anything fun to shoot bring it
Hmmm...I should stock up on ammo now. |
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I've had the jard and the timney units; as far as ease of install the timney is easier; the jard takes a bit of set up, but will get you a very light weight trigger pull.
I've got the #3 flat trigger timney in my "varmint" rig; I like it, have approx 1200rnds on it with no issues whatsoever. the timney's you can get in flat trigger and curved trigger units in #3lb and #4lb pull weight models. the jard adjustable was a pretty sweet pulling trigger too, but it takes a bit more time to properly set up and in my ar10 it didn't hit the surplus ammo hard enough even though it was a ar10 specific fcg; I pulled it out and reinstalled the stock fcg because I shoot a lot more surplus ammo than "factory" ammo through this rifle. it'd work for what you're talking about too, it has spring rates from #1 to #5lbs; they sell pre set weight models also. the cmc tactical trigger group didn't work in the 10 either even though it too is advertized as working in the 10 platform; like I posted above it experienced approx 20% failure to hit the south african surplus's primers hard enough the first time through; it worked in my ar15 though. there is a lot of trigger groups available; look in the ar15 section; iirc there is a trigger group review in the "build it yourself" forum. |
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OK, so assuming money isn't an issue and I wanted to replace the trigger with the best possible after market trigger....which one should I buy? Keeping in mind the rifle is for home defense and target shooting so some crazy 1.5 # trigger break isn't an option. What say ye? And thanks Dan. Supposedly it should be back in my hands in a week. And hell yes, I'll bring my AR and my Winnie 94 and my .357 mag (and if i'm really lucky and it arrives in time, my STI Elektra) and my friend will have her AR and her Kimber Ultra and her Glock and her new S&W M&P .22 pistol that's she's jonesing to shoot for the first time....woohoo, if you have anything fun to shoot bring it
Hmmm...I should stock up on ammo now. olyeller suggested a good one. The AR Gold.
The Camp Perry Gold Medalist (Jon G.) I shot with over Christmas uses a Geisele and would not use anything else on an AR. His suggestions are something I take as gospel. He's ain't no slouch with a rifle.
I guess their all around trigger is the Geisele S3G trigger (3 Gun). http://geissele.com/super3guns3gtrigger.aspx At $270, it's a little out of my ball park. If I was going to start back up on my "ultimate AR", using a Colt upper and WOA SDM 1-8 barrel, and money wasn't an issue, I might go that way and use one myself. As it is, I'll probably get a WOA A4 pre-ban National Match upper instead and use my Colt 6551 lower. My next acquisition is going to be more optics and mount though. ETA I'd also consider what Ndenway says about the triggers. The man may be a huge BSer, but what he says about firearms I have found to be very valuable.
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