Posted: 3/9/2007 5:32:24 PM EDT
| guys, i'm wondering what you guys think. do you guys think there will be a new awb? |
|
Yes, I do think there will be some type of gun control passed. The fact that the Washington, D.C. handgun ban was turned over by the Federal Court of Appeals in the last few days and the subsequent Supreme Court Appeal will be the pivot point or launching point for something to happen. It's not a coincidence. If the Supreme Court hears the case quickly, it won't be a good sign. I hope I'm wrong. |
The way I understand, it is very strict, banding everything imported, and everything that has a pistol grip (shotgun or rifle), has no sunset and such. This is so because it is still in nagotiation, and will become less harsh as the bill comes to its final form. For my .02 I don't think its gonna happen before the 08 election, and then it will depend on the pres. at that time. I also wouldn't put it past Bush to sign the ban, so I am doing what I can to stock up now. God help us all
|
At least. the dems want gun control/ban but are not going after it right away. They learned the last time around and want to keep thier postions. They are trying to lay the foundation for thier agenda. We need to fight them hard, but also get ready in case we are not successfull. |
So what, how, and where are you going to bury stuff? A guy once told me the bumper sticker - They can have my guns when they pry them from my cold dead fingers. - could and would happen if you resist. Are you going to give a squad of UN Pakastani troops coffee and donuts or shoot at them when they pull up in front of your house in an APC to take your guns? US troops won't do it. And at any one time, we have approximately 500,000 UN troops in the US for training purposes. And the US gov't pays those Third World troops the wages of American soldiers.They go from nickels and dimes to hundreds of dollars when training in the US. So the gov't does have the means to actually confiscate weapons whether we admit it or not. And if you hide or bury weapons and ammunition due to government, they have still attained a measure of gun control. What has been in limbo for so long is the "individual right" vs "militia" constitutional argument. One of the barriers that has stopped a lot of legislation is the Courts' not clearly defining and avoiding the issue for decades With the District of Columbia ban on handguns being turned over, and the Second Amendment "individual right" being addressed and clarified, it has set the stage for the Supreme Court to rule on the 2A issue of individual right vs right to form militia. With it not being addressed for so long by the Courts, it actually worked in our favor over the long haul. With Americans and issues being left in the gray, they are usually interpeted in the most liberal fashion. That has worked to our favor, though slightly due to stiff resistance, over the years. Watch the Washington DC handgun issue for Supreme Court rulings. If the Supreme Court rules in favor of Second Amendment individual rights, we're going to be OK for awhile. If they rule that individual rights don't exist due to the lack or need of a militia (i.e. the National Guard fulfills that need), we're going to be bent over a barrel and screwed royally. There won't be a grandfather clause and Congress can do as they please in passing gun laws.The legal groundwork is being done to do away with 2A constitutional rights without a constitutional convention or modification. The victory in overcoming the Washington DC handgun ban is just setting us up for the big fall - the loss of 2A individual rights. Things are going to get crazy price wise if it looks like the AWB crap will be permanent. You have three choices, all depending on the existence of a grandfather clause in the AWB efforts. If they downright outlaw all types of weapons will depend on the Washington DC handgun issue in front of the Supreme Court. If the Supreme Court rules against 2A individual rights, we are really going to be screwed. They won't have a sunset in the bill and they can outright ban anything they want. Here are your three choices if that happens: Lose all your investment in your firearms and related equipment/materials when they start the confiscation. Sell all your stuff for top dollar and profit from ensuing paranoia and buying frenzy. Hide it, bury it, etc and become a criminal. Or a mixture of the three. I was one of the first SDA instructors in the state. The first year, I had over 300 students. 90% were good law abiding citizens except for one thing. They carried a gun on their person or vehicle to protect themselves even if it was against the law. The other 10% wouldn't knowingly break the law by carrying a gun but strongly felt the need to do so. The SDA gave them the legal opportunity to carry a gun and protect themselves. I believe if they do away with the 2A, they are going to make a lot of good citizens big time criminals.  The demographics of firearms usage is well known. New Orleans and Katrina changed the outlook of the Courts permanently with the street thugs and their firearms keeping the authorities tied down from saving lifes. Any Supreme Court ruling will involve Katrina and New Orleans as part of their justification of doing away with 2A individual rights if they rule against us. So the government think tanks have drawn up contingency plans on how to actually get guns out of the hands of US citizens. What they are can only be guessed at!!! The usage of UN troops is the most likely scenario. And I really don't what route I'll take. I ain't going to try to fight it out with a bunch of Third World assholes in an APC in my front yard. I'm good with a rifle and handgun but not stupid enough to oppose those with an APC, RPGs. or lots of FA capability. 1shott, you brought up a thought provoking issue. The northwestern part of the US and California are strongly against the 2A. The midcentral and western US are strongly for the 2A. It's going to be a bitch of a fight. |
No matter what the gov. do on the gun control, the criminals always find their way to guns. Cocaine and marijuana are considered as controlled substances but look at how much American spent on them a year? If they take our guns away then who is going to be there for us in case of something happened like in New Orlean during the Katrina, which will happen again in our lifetime. What we suppose to do call 911 and wait for help , yeah they will come to help to put your dead bodies in the body bag and make a report.The best I can do right now, just renewal my NRA membership every year. |
1shott, you are right. They will do it in a few areas at first, redefine and improve their methods, then build up to it. They are just laying the foundation and groundwork now. It will take a few years to implement. By the way, don't you know that you are a white supremacist if you have guns, ammo, and reloading gear? They'll have the public relations sewn up before they start. And most of our gullible citizens will swallow it hook, line, and sinker. Their premise is you don't need to protect yourself. Government will take care of you. 
|
|
If my own government made guns illegal, and came after mine..to be honest...I'm not sure what I would do. If it were UN troops, they will be fired upon. But I ain't too worried...the UN is not capable of conquering even the most backwoods African state, let alone a bunch of fat healthy and violent Americans. |
|
+1 agreed i served in the un in haiti in 95/96. un troops are jokes at their best. and thats me giving them alot of credit 
|
|
Well, let's see how they would do it. Find the ones that are known to buy lots of ammo, etc. via credit card records, yellow/white sheets, Class III stuff, ... then go visit them to confiscate. They're going to use their best and most obedient troops to do it. Also with a proviso, you screw up, you're going to back to Pakistan for $25 a month vs the $800 or more the US is paying you. Also, we want you to do it quickly and without bloodshed. (They obviously don't want another Waco!) If they are Third World UN trash troops, they still have far more firepower than you do. They'll make sure your wife/children are home so you won't endanger their lives. Believe me, the government has the demographics of gun bearing Americans down to a fine line. When and if they do come to take weapons, they'll screw up here and there of course But overall, if they want to be successful, they will be in the long run. The UN troops is just an example. Hell, if they form the North American Alliance, they might use Mexican or Canadian troops to do the job. They aren't walking jokes with guns, believe me. I'm not trying to stir the pot, but provoke thoughts. Forewarned is forearmed to some degree. |
|
danc46, i'm not saying un troops on American soil could never happen. i'm just saying you have nothing to fear from them. yes they will have firepower and elite units as assets. but i have trained them and served with them . i'll take a few good Americans on myside over thousands of thirdworld soldiers anyday of the week. just one example for ya. haiti 1995, bangladesh paratrooper trying to clear his ak in a clearing barrel. manages to shoot his inspecting nco 14 times. i was 10 feet away when this happend. another, while in bosnia, watched several french infantry and armored units have to call for American support just to complete simple route security patrols. one french armored unit was lost for 2 days and had gps. we had to drive for 6 hours to find them and esscort them back to Camp dobol. now for my 2 cents"tinfoil hat time" you have more to worry about from your local law enforcement , augmented by atf units. when it comes time to take your guns. then you do with "UN Troops"
|
An individual stands little chance against a squad, no matter how incompetent they are. Also, as an individual, I don't have explosive munitions to discourage or end a firefight. Chuck, direct confrontation against superior might and numbers is foolhardy. They WILL pry your cold dead fingers from your gun when they take them IF you openly oppose them. Better to be an unknown and sneaky sniper than a famous, brave, and dead hero. 
|
| Dan, if UN troops were sent to US soil to disarm americans...first of all, I believe that it would create a huge rift within the Federal Government. Believe it or not, there are many people on our side. Second, I don't think I'll let them murder me in my own home. They can't kick in the doors of millions of people at the same time. Most of us are going to be aware of what's going on before they come to our neighborhoods. I betchya some of us would be a little more 'pro-active' about it. I don't care how elite they are. We know the terrain and the local population alot better than they do. I personally know several local law enforcement officers who would be shooting at the blue helmets. |
|
Everything I have stated is supposition except for one thing. Most gun owners in the USA would surrender their weapons instead of being the victims in another Waco. Ruby Ridge is an example. After two family members were killed, there was a surrender. They weren't religious fanatics expecting rapture - they wanted to live. I'm not trying to piss anyone off but I believe what I just said. I'm not bad with guns and can damn sure take more than one with me if they come after me. But I like living and I am realistic. I can reach a pump shotgun loaded with buckshot within 10 seconds anywhere in my home. (I've got more than one!) If I know they'll be coming after my shotguns a(and other things) and not necessarily me, well hell, I sold those suckers a few months ago. It's not going to be like those black ninjas that busted in on the 92 yo grandma with a warrant for the wrong house. She shot 3 of them but she's dead now.... In the late 50's and early 60's, there were the Minute Men - the John Birchers - in the western US. They had arms caches all over the deserts in case the revocation of the 2A. That was prior to the gun control movement from the Kennedy assassination. They kept getting busted, losing their arms caches, went to jail. And only in one or two instances did they go out in a blaze of guts and glory. And they were a whole lot more radical about the 2A than you or I ever will be. Even the ultra right wing fascist extremists in this country don't usually shoot it out when they get there doors busted in. So I'm not talking out of my ass. The point is, if they come knocking, I'm going to lose my prized 22 single shot, 30/30, the New England Firearms single shot 12 gauge, my 25 Raven, my Viet Nam era (beat up) SKS, my one and only  AK and the 200 or so rounds I still have left after selling all that other stuff I used to have. Do you catch my drift? 
|
I don't see them confiscating our firearms either, the second amendment guarantees the American citizenry the right to bear arms, although I'll add this for a bit of thought, no where is it written in the second amendment that it does guarantee our right to own ammunition for them. |
|
Some still haven't caught on about the Washington DC court case. They said we have individual rights with the 2A. Others say the "right to form militia" is taken care of by the state with the National Guard - under STATE, not FEDERAL control, and the "individual rights" are implied and no longer apply today. Before it was always implied and understood. Now it is a written issue about to go before the Supreme Court who hasn't ruled on the 2A in decades. They now have the chance to redefine the 2A. About the same time a new AWB hits Congress? Do you think that is coincidence? It may be or it may be not. We'll see if the 2A is redefined by the Supreme Court shortly.If they do, it's our "individual rights" under the 2A that is in jeopardy. |
nope Dan your right about an individual standing against many, but histroy is rife with hero's that fought battles to the man against armys that greatly outnumbered them and their brethern, they may have lost the battle, but they sent a lot of their enemies to the grave before they joined them, the last I looked there is plenty of gun owners in this nation, we could fight with weapons as did our forefathers, or we could use our heads and fight for our rights with the political system the libs are using against us, if every gun owner in America joined and supported the NRA or other organizations like them, boycotted all anti-gun companies, and voted in each and every election we could delay the loss of our freedoms, and if that doesn't work, then we'd all better start prepairing now, cause theres no place left for us to run. |
Isn't that exactly how this nation was formed? By outnumbered and outgunned people? There are many ways to fight. Waiting in your house for the boot to kick in the door is indeed foolhardy. Most people have a line that they will not be pushed across. I absolutely hate it when someone thinks that they know whats best for me. Especially when they live in oh say NYC or DC. What do they know of my life here? There are many ways to fight. I have a very good friend that says that if asked, he will turn in all his guns without a word. He also refuses to get involved in the political process. Pisses me off to no end. I'd say that with the UN troops that I've seen I'd be good for at least a company. Thats weak handed with a 1911. 
|
+1 |