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Posted: 3/20/2006 6:19:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/20/2006 6:19:53 PM EDT by Sumoj275]
OK, here is the deal. I have been longing to get a heavy brl in .223 for a whie but needed some justification. Today the oppurtunity arose with the invite to a 4 day p-dog hunt.

For those of you that have had or have a hb varmint type upper what do you recomend? 18", 20", 22", 24" fluted, non fluted, etc.

How about just an upper that I can swap out on my current lower?

Thanks
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 7:08:24 PM EDT
18 or 20 should do you just fine.

Fluting is OK, it does aid in cooling the barrel faster, BUT in varmit shooting I doubt you will do lots fo rapid fire.

Yes, a upper you can swap with one lower is fine. Lots of folks do that.

Check out Jasons site, give him a call..JTAC supply, he is a industry partner here. Also located in Panola.

Good guy, does great work. I know, he has stole enough of my money from me...





Link Posted: 3/20/2006 7:39:40 PM EDT
I have heard that there is no difference in accuracy between a 20" and a 24" barrel, I personally don't know if that is correct or not, but you do lose some velocity with the shorter barrel, but remember that 24" bull barrel rifle is heavy!

Here's mine, J&T upper on a Stag Arms lower receiver, 5.56mm with a 24" stainless bull barrel
with a 1-8 twist, JP Rifles single stage trigger.

Link Posted: 3/21/2006 12:05:01 PM EDT
I did that number with a varmint upper to switch out on my regular AR. I ended up buying a another lower to put together another rifle.
I had a Colt 24" bull barrel with a 10x SS Tasco scope. It was fun to shoot, accurate but it grew old in a hurry.
Just my opinion, ARs are fun and great rifles, but is hard to beat a bolt action 223 for furry varmints.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 2:03:31 PM EDT
I like my 16" varmint ar..... to each his own .......
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 2:31:30 PM EDT
I've read the same ting about 20" and 24" barrels in regards to accuracy and velocity. Once you get to about 20" thats about as fast and as accurate as you'll get. My next build is probly going to be an SPR lookin rifle. I just think they look cool.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 2:55:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By acman145acp:
I like my 16" varmint ar..... to each his own .......


But you like your pellet gun more?
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 3:50:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2006 3:55:48 PM EDT by Ndenway]
I don't really think barrel length/contour has any affect on accuracy in a cold barrel, I've got 16" barrels that are just as accurate as my 26" barrels, now length and contour do have great effect on velocity and heat disapation, which will affect bullet drop as distances increase and accuracy as barrel heats, a heavy barrel will take longer to heat, but it will also take longer to cool, but if your strictly varmint shooting, you won't be firing that many rounds in a row for the barrel to get hot enough to greatly effect accuracy, if you do get it hot, leave the bolt open and switch to your spare rifle,

a heavy barrel also adds weight to the rifle which helps you hold it more steady,

a 20" in 223 should work just fine out to 300 yards, I don't think any but the 40 to 52gr. varmit bullets can be driven fast enough with the 223 to reliably blow apart much past 300 yards anyway, they will expand a little, but you won't see the explosive expansion like they do at shorter ranges, which might allow a gut shot animal to crawl into a hole and die, instead of blowing the hell outta him and killing him instantly,

last time we went PD hunting, I used a hornet loaded w/45gr Bee bullet out to 125yards, a 223 w/50gr vmax out to 250 yards and a 22-250 w/ 50gr vmax for 250 yards plus.

Link Posted: 3/21/2006 4:22:43 PM EDT
Ok if were going to get all technical.....


Originally Posted By Ndenway:
I don't really think barrel length/contour has any affect on accuracy in a cold barrel, I've got 16" barrels that are just as accurate as my 26" barrels,
I think were in complete agreement here


now length and contour do have great effect on velocity
How does contour affect velocity never heard that one


and heat disapation, which will affect bullet drop as distances increase and accuracy as barrel heats, a heavy barrel will take longer to heat, but it will also take longer to cool, but if your strictly varmint shooting, you won't be firing that many rounds in a row for the barrel to get hot enough to greatly effect accuracy, if you do get it hot, leave the bolt open and switch to your spare rifle,

a heavy barrel also adds weight to the rifle which helps you hold it more steady,

a 20" in 223 should work just fine out to 300 yards, I don't think any but the 40 to 52gr. varmit bullets can be driven fast enough with the 223 to reliably blow apart much past 300 yards anyway, they will expand a little, but you won't see the explosive expansion like they do at shorter ranges, which might allow a gut shot animal to crawl into a hole and die, instead of blowing the hell outta him and killing him instantly,

last time we went PD hunting, I used a hornet loaded w/45gr Bee bullet out to 125yards, a 223 w/50gr vmax out to 250 yards and a 22-250 w/ 50gr vmax for 250 yards plus.




Link Posted: 3/21/2006 4:26:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By danc46:

Originally Posted By acman145acp:
I like my 16" varmint ar..... to each his own .......


But you like your pellet gun more?



only because i'd venture to say it's killed more animals than most people will ever think about shooting
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 5:06:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By acman145acp:
Ok if were going to get all technical.....


Originally Posted By Ndenway:
I don't really think barrel length/contour has any affect on accuracy in a cold barrel, I've got 16" barrels that are just as accurate as my 26" barrels,
I think were in complete agreement here


now length and contour do have great effect on velocity
How does contour affect velocity never heard that one

I knew I should have took the effort to write this part differently instead of lumping it together, contour has no effect on velocity, it does have an affect on how fast the barrel heats and cools

and heat disapation, which will affect bullet drop as distances increase and accuracy as barrel heats, a heavy barrel will take longer to heat, but it will also take longer to cool, but if your strictly varmint shooting, you won't be firing that many rounds in a row for the barrel to get hot enough to greatly effect accuracy, if you do get it hot, leave the bolt open and switch to your spare rifle,

a heavy barrel also adds weight to the rifle which helps you hold it more steady,

a 20" in 223 should work just fine out to 300 yards, I don't think any but the 40 to 52gr. varmit bullets can be driven fast enough with the 223 to reliably blow apart much past 300 yards anyway, they will expand a little, but you won't see the explosive expansion like they do at shorter ranges, which might allow a gut shot animal to crawl into a hole and die, instead of blowing the hell outta him and killing him instantly,

last time we went PD hunting, I used a hornet loaded w/45gr Bee bullet out to 125yards, a 223 w/50gr vmax out to 250 yards and a 22-250 w/ 50gr vmax for 250 yards plus.





Link Posted: 3/21/2006 6:20:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By acman145acp:

only because i'd venture to say it's killed more animals than most people will ever think about shooting



I don't know about killing, but I'd say you're mean enough to use it shoot the balls of off cats, dogs, and any squirrels that come into your yard!

I did see my son pop a large Canadian in the head with a 17 cal pellet gun, killing it at 25 yds.
I'm not cutting the accuracy of those little rifles!
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 6:21:24 PM EDT
Barrel length has no real effect in shooting, it's how you use the barrel!
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 6:29:46 PM EDT
Thanks guys,
I am really at a toss up here. I would love to have the varmint style brl and upper, but the money I am looking at I can get a Savage or a CZ dedicated varmint rifle and keep the "wifes" M-4 in its current configuration. Too many choices.

I guess the old adage of "its not how long it is, but how you use it" can hold true here or the other old adage " the longer the better"? Which is it
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 7:31:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2006 7:33:49 PM EDT by JTAC_Supply]
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 8:18:59 PM EDT
If you are stationary and not moving much, a long heavy barrel is an asset. But if you are humping it for a distance for just one or two shots, it's not worth the weight. A short stout tube gives very good accuracy if everything is right, like trigger pull, optics, etc.
Chances of getting into a 20+ shots at one sitting are pretty slim unless you get into one hell of a prairie dog town. I haven't seen or done that in almost 20 years.
I like Savage rifles for the accuracy and price. My son has a Savage 16 in 223 with Accutrigger that is damn deadly on varmints. With a little coaching, he was hitting the rams at 500 meters with 55 gr soft points. 6 shots, the first a spotter, then 5 hits in a row.
A buddy on the Shawnee PD (Wingman knows him!) has an Olympic upper with a SUM 16" barrel that he swears is deadly accurate.
What got me off heavy barrels was humping a 300 Win Mag Savage Tactical in Colorado up and down hills. I could have hit and killed an elk at 500 yds no problem, but never got a shot.
Depending on the bullets you are going to use, the twist is much more important than the barrel length in the 18 to 24 inch barrel lengths.
A dedicated 24 in barrel and good optics on an AR makes for a great bench rifle, but to me isn't much good for field use.
But I sure do love my bolts for hunting anything with fur on it!
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 8:40:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By danc46:
If you are stationary and not moving much, a long heavy barrel is an asset. But if you are humping it for a distance for just one or two shots, it's not worth the weight. A short stout tube gives very good accuracy if everything is right, like trigger pull, optics, etc.
Chances of getting into a 20+ shots at one sitting are pretty slim unless you get into one hell of a prairie dog town. I haven't seen or done that in almost 20 years.

a little off topic but i must be the luckiest sob in the world because their were 2 of us shooting when i went and we were getting off at least 20 shots each when we started ..out of bolt gun and a encore.... you guys gotta find better spots ...... even on our 7-8 trip through the town we were getting 5-7 shots each off.....

I like Savage rifles for the accuracy and price. My son has a Savage 16 in 223 with Accutrigger that is damn deadly on varmints. With a little coaching, he was hitting the rams at 500 meters with 55 gr soft points. 6 shots, the first a spotter, then 5 hits in a row.
A buddy on the Shawnee PD (Wingman knows him!) has an Olympic upper with a SUM 16" barrel that he swears is deadly accurate.
What got me off heavy barrels was humping a 300 Win Mag Savage Tactical in Colorado up and down hills. I could have hit and killed an elk at 500 yds no problem, but never got a shot.
Depending on the bullets you are going to use, the twist is much more important than the barrel length in the 18 to 24 inch barrel lengths.
A dedicated 24 in barrel and good optics on an AR makes for a great bench rifle, but to me isn't much good for field use.
But I sure do love my bolts for hunting anything with fur on it!


their was / i would imagine still is good pd shooting/ it aint hunting .......in the panhandle you just got to find it
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 8:44:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By acman145acp:
their was / i would imagine still is good pd shooting/ it aint hunting .......in the panhandle you just got to find it



Just how many of those man eating prairie dogs did you get with that wicked ass pellet gun?
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 4:25:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By danc46:

Originally Posted By acman145acp:
their was / i would imagine still is good pd shooting/ it aint hunting .......in the panhandle you just got to find it



Just how many of those man eating prairie dogs did you get with that wicked ass pellet gun?



I killed a lot that day........ but most of it was done with the 223 tactical........... i took a few shots with the encore..... but the triger on that thing sucks i couldn't hit with it past 175

wind dope is the key trying to shoot out at any distance.... elevation is easy wind was a killer that day best i could was about a 2 foot area around them
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