Posted: 10/11/2013 9:00:32 AM EDT
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Not sure how much help I can get here, mostly looking for advice on how the appeals process works... My mother recently applied for her concealed carry permit; I just had a phone call from her that she received a Denial Letter in the mail yesterday. Apparently her "records" show her as being involuntarily committed to a mental institution in 2010. This did NOT happen, ever. The only possible explanation she can think of: as an RN, she has signed papers having OTHER patients committed. Maybe that has some bearing. maybe it doesn't. So, does she need a lawyer? Can she handle the Appeal herself? UPDATE #1: Mom finally spoke with the Circuit Court Clerk today. She was told the only information that was returned was there's a record of my mother being involuntarily committed to a mental institution on 11/1/10. The only evidence my mother would be able to offer to refute this claim is that she was at work that day. Additionally, the Clerk indicated the Judge only hears these issues once a month and the next time is tomorrow (10/17). My mother has been added to the docket; I'm not thrilled about this as she is NOT prepared. The only thing she can currently do is state that she was never committed, she worked that day, but has no further evidence to support her claim; AND she's only being given one day to prepare. The Clerk also told her the C.A. and the Sheriff will be at the Court hearing and she can address this with them at that time. WTF!!! I really feel like she's treating the too lightly... I can't really do anything further; I've told her this can turn into a serious issue and she only gets the single appeal (from limited reading on the denial process pages). My father also thinks this is mostly a non-issue since it's a very rural county and he feels like I'm being to paranoid about the issue. Thoughts? UPDATE #2: Mom wen to court and is out. The Judge asked her if she disagreed with the denial letter and why; mom told him she wasn't committed and was working the day in question. CA piped up and stated they'd looked into the case yesterday and realized there is another person with a similar name and DOB that was committed and has a felony record. Judge is issuing a court letter to correct the situation and will be issuing her permit as well. I am a little frustrated with my mom... After everything she's been told, she went to court this morning with nothing more than her driver license and passport; she was banking on it being a mistaken identity. My dad was pretty upset with her since he'd gotten her timesheets for her from 10/1/10-10/1/11 to prove she hadn't been absent for the period in question. He was also apparently upset she was seeming to blow the whole thing off and relying on the generosity of the Judge and CA... ANYWAY, it's over and the issue is resolved! Thanks for everyone's input. |
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I don't know if she will require a lawyer or not but I just checked on the Virginia State Police website for what to do in the event an application is wrongfully denied. Have a look here: http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_ResidentConcealed.shtm#Denied
It looks like your mother needs to get in touch with the county circuit court clerk and let them know that she's going to appeal the decision. I've never actually heard of a CHP application being denied so I don't know what the process is to fix it. |
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Well, I've told her what she needs to do according to the Sate Police website... She wants to wait till sometime next week and talk to the Commonwealth Attorney. I'm sure exactly what she hopes/expects to accomplish, but I think she's hoping he'll tell her what exactly was found negative against her. If she thinks she needs a lawyer I'm not certain how far she'll push this to get it corrected. If I'm not mistaken though, as part of being involuntarily committed, wouldn't she now be prohibited from owning any firearms? Obviously if thats the case, she may take it a little more seriously.
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She needs to get it straight, it may pop up now on a background check for a firearm and potentially as an RN, depending on if she changes jobs. She may need to get it expunged which may involve additional hearings.
The CA may help, but I doubt it. The judge with the help of the county clerk reviewed the paperwork and VSP should have done the background check. She should also reach out to the county clerk to file for a hearing and ask them nicely for the background info on when she was denied, it could be a clerical error during the check. Quoted:
Well, I've told her what she needs to do according to the Sate Police website... She wants to wait till sometime next week and talk to the Commonwealth Attorney. I'm sure exactly what she hopes/expects to accomplish, but I think she's hoping he'll tell her what exactly was found negative against her. If she thinks she needs a lawyer I'm not certain how far she'll push this to get it corrected. If I'm not mistaken though, as part of being involuntarily committed, wouldn't she now be prohibited from owning any firearms? Obviously if thats the case, she may take it a little more seriously. |
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Quoted:
She needs to get it straight, it may pop up now on a background check for a firearm and potentially as an RN, depending on if she changes jobs. She may need to get it expunged which may involve additional hearings. The CA may help, but I doubt it. The judge with the help of the county clerk reviewed the paperwork and VSP should have done the background check. She should also reach out to the county clerk to file for a hearing and ask them nicely for the background info on when she was denied, it could be a clerical error during the check. Quoted:
She needs to get it straight, it may pop up now on a background check for a firearm and potentially as an RN, depending on if she changes jobs. She may need to get it expunged which may involve additional hearings. The CA may help, but I doubt it. The judge with the help of the county clerk reviewed the paperwork and VSP should have done the background check. She should also reach out to the county clerk to file for a hearing and ask them nicely for the background info on when she was denied, it could be a clerical error during the check. Quoted:
Well, I've told her what she needs to do according to the Sate Police website... She wants to wait till sometime next week and talk to the Commonwealth Attorney. I'm sure exactly what she hopes/expects to accomplish, but I think she's hoping he'll tell her what exactly was found negative against her. If she thinks she needs a lawyer I'm not certain how far she'll push this to get it corrected. If I'm not mistaken though, as part of being involuntarily committed, wouldn't she now be prohibited from owning any firearms? Obviously if thats the case, she may take it a little more seriously. CA will not likely lift a finger - there's no crime to prosecute here. She needs to file for an Ore Tenus hearing with the Clerk of the Circuit Court (NOT the County Clerk). I can't imagine an attorney would charge her a whole lot to represent her, but it will be worth every dime - the judges and attorneys all know each other, and having a reputable attorney speak for her carries weight. |
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UPDATE: (In OP as well) Mom finally spoke with the Circuit Court Clerk today. She was told the only information that was returned was there's a record of my mother being involuntarily committed to a mental institution on 11/1/10. The only evidence my mother would be able to offer to refute this claim is that she was at work that day. Additionally, the Clerk indicated the Judge only hears these issues once a month and the next time is tomorrow (10/17). My mother has been added to the docket; I'm not thrilled about this as she is NOT prepared. The only thing she can currently do is state that she was never committed, she worked that day, but has no further evidence to support her claim; AND she's only being given one day to prepare. The Clerk also told her the C.A. and the Sheriff will be at the Court hearing and she can address this with them at that time. WTF!!! I really feel like she's treating the too lightly... I can't really do anything further; I've told her this can turn into a serious issue and she only gets the single appeal (from limited reading on the denial process pages). My father also thinks this is mostly a non-issue since it's a very rural county and he feels like I'm being to paranoid about the issue. Thoughts? |
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See if she can get a supervisor or someone to certify that she was at work that day. Did something else happen that can show she was out, maybe she got a ticket that day, or some interaction with DMV, etc?
Quoted:
UPDATE: (In OP as well) Mom finally spoke with the Circuit Court Clerk today. She was told the only information that was returned was there's a record of my mother being involuntarily committed to a mental institution on 11/1/10. The only evidence my mother would be able to offer to refute this claim is that she was at work that day. Additionally, the Clerk indicated the Judge only hears these issues once a month and the next time is tomorrow (10/17). My mother has been added to the docket; I'm not thrilled about this as she is NOT prepared. The only thing she can currently do is state that she was never committed, she worked that day, but has no further evidence to support her claim; AND she's only being given one day to prepare. The Clerk also told her the C.A. and the Sheriff will be at the Court hearing and she can address this with them at that time. WTF!!! I really feel like she's treating the too lightly... I can't really do anything further; I've told her this can turn into a serious issue and she only gets the single appeal (from limited reading on the denial process pages). My father also thinks this is mostly a non-issue since it's a very rural county and he feels like I'm being to paranoid about the issue. Thoughts? |
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Quoted: See if she can get a supervisor or someone to certify that she was at work that day. Did something else happen that can show she was out, maybe she got a ticket that day, or some interaction with DMV, etc? Quoted: See if she can get a supervisor or someone to certify that she was at work that day. Did something else happen that can show she was out, maybe she got a ticket that day, or some interaction with DMV, etc? Quoted: UPDATE: (In OP as well) Mom finally spoke with the Circuit Court Clerk today. She was told the only information that was returned was there's a record of my mother being involuntarily committed to a mental institution on 11/1/10. The only evidence my mother would be able to offer to refute this claim is that she was at work that day. Additionally, the Clerk indicated the Judge only hears these issues once a month and the next time is tomorrow (10/17). My mother has been added to the docket; I'm not thrilled about this as she is NOT prepared. The only thing she can currently do is state that she was never committed, she worked that day, but has no further evidence to support her claim; AND she's only being given one day to prepare. The Clerk also told her the C.A. and the Sheriff will be at the Court hearing and she can address this with them at that time. WTF!!! I really feel like she's treating the too lightly... I can't really do anything further; I've told her this can turn into a serious issue and she only gets the single appeal (from limited reading on the denial process pages). My father also thinks this is mostly a non-issue since it's a very rural county and he feels like I'm being to paranoid about the issue. Thoughts? No other interaction on that date. She's an RN at a local hospital; her shift that day was 7am - 7pm. Having that shift means she left the house at ~6am and got home around ~8:30pm (allowing for "chat" time with co-workers). That leaves the hours of 12:00-7:00a & 7:00p-11:59 unaccounted for legally. Obviously it should be a rational argument that one would not be involuntarily committed for such a short period of time, but I don't know how difficult the Judge may be and that worries me. |
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The only possible explanation she can think of: as an RN, she has signed papers having OTHER patients committed. Maybe that has some bearing. maybe it doesn't.
Your honor, I've been an RN for X years, I worked at Y facility. I left home at 0600am, worked a 12 hour shift and arrived home at ~0830pm. As part of my job I have signed paperwork to have people committed. It usually takes this long to do this (fill in details). Here are some of the steps/procedures that it takes to get someone committed. The involuntary commitment usually is for X hours/days, etc. in VA and we can only hold them for this period of time (1 hr, 24, 48, 72 hours, insert answer here) I ask that the CA produce the paperwork for the involuntary commitment and happy to walk thru it with your honor. If the paperwork cannot be produced at this time, I submit that there could have been a clerical error where my name was recorded in error. I can produce witnesses, supervisors, etc of my state of mind that day and I went to work the next day or next shift, etc. Since there isn't alot of time, if she doesn't feel comfortable, maybe she can get a continuance and seek out a 2A lawyer and get a consultation. PS: I didn't even stay at at Holiday Inn and not a lawyer. Quoted:
No other interaction on that date. She's an RN at a local hospital; her shift that day was 7am - 7pm. Having that shift means she left the house at ~6am and got home around ~8:30pm (allowing for "chat" time with co-workers). That leaves the hours of 12:00-7:00a & 7:00p-11:59 unaccounted for legally. Obviously it should be a rational argument that one would not be involuntarily committed for such a short period of time, but I don't know how difficult the Judge may be and that worries me. Quoted:
Quoted:
See if she can get a supervisor or someone to certify that she was at work that day. Did something else happen that can show she was out, maybe she got a ticket that day, or some interaction with DMV, etc? Quoted:
UPDATE: (In OP as well) Mom finally spoke with the Circuit Court Clerk today. She was told the only information that was returned was there's a record of my mother being involuntarily committed to a mental institution on 11/1/10. The only evidence my mother would be able to offer to refute this claim is that she was at work that day. Additionally, the Clerk indicated the Judge only hears these issues once a month and the next time is tomorrow (10/17). My mother has been added to the docket; I'm not thrilled about this as she is NOT prepared. The only thing she can currently do is state that she was never committed, she worked that day, but has no further evidence to support her claim; AND she's only being given one day to prepare. The Clerk also told her the C.A. and the Sheriff will be at the Court hearing and she can address this with them at that time. WTF!!! I really feel like she's treating the too lightly... I can't really do anything further; I've told her this can turn into a serious issue and she only gets the single appeal (from limited reading on the denial process pages). My father also thinks this is mostly a non-issue since it's a very rural county and he feels like I'm being to paranoid about the issue. Thoughts? No other interaction on that date. She's an RN at a local hospital; her shift that day was 7am - 7pm. Having that shift means she left the house at ~6am and got home around ~8:30pm (allowing for "chat" time with co-workers). That leaves the hours of 12:00-7:00a & 7:00p-11:59 unaccounted for legally. Obviously it should be a rational argument that one would not be involuntarily committed for such a short period of time, but I don't know how difficult the Judge may be and that worries me. |
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^ Damn, that sounds pretty good to me for not being a lawyer.
Another thing to consider is if there is another person w/ the same name as your mom? I always get delayed on background checks (though it didn't affect my permit) because there's someone else with my exact name who apparently has a record. I'm wondering if it could be a case like that, and there is some other woman w/ your moms name who got admitted. Another option that comes to mind is if you can get the name of the mental institution and give them a call to see what they may or may not have on record about your mom, but I don't know if that would be something that could be done or if it would be against HIPAA or whatever. |
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UPDATE: Mom wen to court and is out. The Judge asked her if she disagreed with the denial letter and why; mom told him she wasn't committed and was working the day in question. CA piped up and stated they'd looked into the case yesterday and realized there is another person with a similar name and DOB that was committed and has a felony record. Judge is issuing a court letter to correct the situation and will be issuing her permit as well. I am a little frustrated with my mom... After everything she's been told, she went to court this morning with nothing more than her driver license and passport; she was banking on it being a mistaken identity. My dad was pretty upset with her since he'd gotten her timesheets for her from 10/1/10-10/1/11 to prove she hadn't been absent for the period in question. He was also apparently upset she was seeming to blow the whole thing off and relying on the generosity of the Judge and CA... ANYWAY, it's over and the issue is resolved! Thanks for everyone's input. |
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Tell her congrats and hope that she realized she "figuratively" dodged a bullet. She also should follow up in a couple of months to make sure that it isn't still entered in the system. As a great man once said, trust but verify.
Had a friend of a friend who was popped at 80+, younger driver, he was talking about going into court and pleading with the judge. I was able to set him straight and he got a lawyer and was able to get the charges reduced. Quoted:
Not sure how much help I can get here, mostly looking for advice on how the appeals process works... My mother recently applied for her concealed carry permit; I just had a phone call from her that she received a Denial Letter in the mail yesterday. Apparently her "records" show her as being involuntarily committed to a mental institution in 2010. This did NOT happen, ever. The only possible explanation she can think of: as an RN, she has signed papers having OTHER patients committed. Maybe that has some bearing. maybe it doesn't. So, does she need a lawyer? Can she handle the Appeal herself? UPDATE #1: Mom finally spoke with the Circuit Court Clerk today. She was told the only information that was returned was there's a record of my mother being involuntarily committed to a mental institution on 11/1/10. The only evidence my mother would be able to offer to refute this claim is that she was at work that day. Additionally, the Clerk indicated the Judge only hears these issues once a month and the next time is tomorrow (10/17). My mother has been added to the docket; I'm not thrilled about this as she is NOT prepared. The only thing she can currently do is state that she was never committed, she worked that day, but has no further evidence to support her claim; AND she's only being given one day to prepare. The Clerk also told her the C.A. and the Sheriff will be at the Court hearing and she can address this with them at that time. WTF!!! I really feel like she's treating the too lightly... I can't really do anything further; I've told her this can turn into a serious issue and she only gets the single appeal (from limited reading on the denial process pages). My father also thinks this is mostly a non-issue since it's a very rural county and he feels like I'm being to paranoid about the issue. Thoughts? UPDATE #2: Mom wen to court and is out. The Judge asked her if she disagreed with the denial letter and why; mom told him she wasn't committed and was working the day in question. CA piped up and stated they'd looked into the case yesterday and realized there is another person with a similar name and DOB that was committed and has a felony record. Judge is issuing a court letter to correct the situation and will be issuing her permit as well. I am a little frustrated with my mom... After everything she's been told, she went to court this morning with nothing more than her driver license and passport; she was banking on it being a mistaken identity. My dad was pretty upset with her since he'd gotten her timesheets for her from 10/1/10-10/1/11 to prove she hadn't been absent for the period in question. He was also apparently upset she was seeming to blow the whole thing off and relying on the generosity of the Judge and CA... ANYWAY, it's over and the issue is resolved! Thanks for everyone's input. |