Posted: 2/24/2010 7:52:38 AM EDT
|
I have an old Mauser 8MM rifle. It's a POS. Seriuosly. I bought it for $50 from a friend and it has some pitting, cracked wood, etc...
I saw where a guy cut down an old Mosin. If and how can I legally turn it into a "pistol"? I wanna cut off the butt stock and cut the barrel down to only a few inches... Its not a shotgun so I dont hafta worry about that... But a rifle into a pistol? How? |
|
Quoted:
I have an old Mauser 8MM rifle. It's a POS. Seriuosly. I bought it for $50 from a friend and it has some pitting, cracked wood, etc... I saw where a guy cut down an old Mosin. If and how can I legally turn it into a "pistol"? I wanna cut off the butt stock and cut the barrel down to only a few inches... Its not a shotgun so I dont hafta worry about that... But a rifle into a pistol? How? Once a rifle is a rifle, it may NEVER, EVER be made into a pistol. The best you can do is pay the $200 tax to turn it into an SBR. The disposition of the stock at that point is irrelevant, it will still be an SBR. This is why when you build an AR pistol, you MUST start with a virgin receiver transferred to you as a handgun. If it's transferred as a rifle, then it's officially a rifle and may not have a barrel shorter than 16" w/o first getting the stamp for it. |
|
I don't beleive this to be true any longer. That's why stripped receivers are sold as other now and not rifle or pistol (and why those younger than 21 can no longer purchase a stripped lower). Because you can build either a rifle or a pistol. Few years ago, if you wanted to build a pistol AR you did have to have the stripped receiver transferred as a pistol. Past readings I recall Thompson Center having a law suit/court case with the ATF about this very thing. As long as the short barrel firearm does not have a butt stock, it isn't a rifle. You put a butt stock on a "pistol" and now you have a SBR.
Any one else recall the T/C case? |
|
Quoted:
and why those younger than 21 can no longer purchase a stripped lower and why that conveniently happened right during the post-obama election rush on stripped lowers. Before then I could buy them, then when I wanted a few, nope, the 'law' changed without any elected officials passing any new laws. |
|
Quoted:
Because you can build either a rifle or a pistol
Yes, but once you build it as a rifle, you can't change it to a pistol. And with a milsurp like the 8mm, it started as a rifle, has to stay that way. I'm going to have to disagree with you on this, because as I remember it, T/C argued that an owner could switch btwn rifle/pistol/rifle as long as the configuration did not violate the reg for a pistol to not have a butt stock or that a rifle not have a barrel less that 16 inches. Besides, ATF has no idea on how I build up my stripped lower. I can change it back and forth. They would never know. This may not apply to a rifle such as what the OP has, as it is a rifle on the books. But then again, I'm not a lawyer and if any one else can shed a more educated light on the matter, I'm willing to listen and learn. |
|
It's all about CURRENT CONFIGURATION.
You can switch back and forth all you want, AS LONG AS IT IS LEGAL IN IT'S CURRENT CONFIGURATION. Period. The rules changed over a year ago, and prior to that, there was a lot of confusion regarding this issue- which is why there was a modification to the 4473 as well as the policies regarding "pistol only" vs "rifle only" receivers in an effort to minimize confusion. Don't make this complicated. Just keep the configuration legal, and you're GTG. 
Just my .02 Hope this helps! ~WTS |
|
Quoted:
I don't beleive this to be true any longer. That's why stripped receivers are sold as other now and not rifle or pistol (and why those younger than 21 can no longer purchase a stripped lower). Because you can build either a rifle or a pistol. Few years ago, if you wanted to build a pistol AR you did have to have the stripped receiver transferred as a pistol. Past readings I recall Thompson Center having a law suit/court case with the ATF about this very thing. As long as the short barrel firearm does not have a butt stock, it isn't a rifle. You put a butt stock on a "pistol" and now you have a SBR. Any one else recall the T/C case? You sir are correct! That's the way Thompson/Center explained it to me when I called & ask them about putting a rifle barrel on my Contender pistol frame. This was about 5 years ago when I ask T/C about this. |
|
Read The Book, Guys! Here's what the current ATF "Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide" has to say: (18 USC 921)
"The term "short barreled rifle" means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length AND ANY WEAPON MADE FROM A RIFLE (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches." Further, Title 26, US Code, Section 5845(a) defines a short barreled rifle as a "firearm" subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act. What all this means is that if you cut down a rifle and make a pistol out of it, you've just made an NFA weapon. The law says that you can do this, but you must file a form 1 with ATF and get the approval back before you start work. And don't forget that pesky $200 tax! |
|
Quoted:
Read The Book, Guys! Here's what the current ATF "Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide" has to say: (18 USC 921) "The term "short barreled rifle" means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length AND ANY WEAPON MADE FROM A RIFLE (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches." Further, Title 26, US Code, Section 5845(a) defines a short barreled rifle as a "firearm" subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act. What all this means is that if you cut down a rifle and make a pistol out of it, you've just made an NFA weapon. The law says that you can do this, but you must file a form 1 with ATF and get the approval back before you start work. And don't forget that pesky $200 tax! And please correct me if I'm wrong (I've asked about this in the NFA section of the Armory as well), if you take a pistol and make a rifle out of it, it can't ever be a pistol again....i.e. if I take my AR pistol (which was built as a pistol from a virgin receiver as a pistol and has no NFA bindings) and put a 16" barrel and a butt-stock on it, if I convert it back to a pistol, I'm now violating the NFA unless I get the stamp. Is that correct? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Read The Book, Guys! Here's what the current ATF "Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide" has to say: (18 USC 921) "The term "short barreled rifle" means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length AND ANY WEAPON MADE FROM A RIFLE (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches." Further, Title 26, US Code, Section 5845(a) defines a short barreled rifle as a "firearm" subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act. What all this means is that if you cut down a rifle and make a pistol out of it, you've just made an NFA weapon. The law says that you can do this, but you must file a form 1 with ATF and get the approval back before you start work. And don't forget that pesky $200 tax! And please correct me if I'm wrong (I've asked about this in the NFA section of the Armory as well), if you take a pistol and make a rifle out of it, it can't ever be a pistol again....i.e. if I take my AR pistol (which was built as a pistol from a virgin receiver as a pistol and has no NFA bindings) and put a 16" barrel and a butt-stock on it, if I convert it back to a pistol, I'm now violating the NFA unless I get the stamp. Is that correct? It sounds crazy, but that's what ATF says. Once you have converted the pistol to a rifle, then if you make it back to a pistol again, it becomes a "...weapon made from a rifle". Personally, I think that's bullshit, but I'll leave it to someone else to try to convince a federal judge. |
|
Quoted:
It's all about CURRENT CONFIGURATION. You can switch back and forth all you want, AS LONG AS IT IS LEGAL IN IT'S CURRENT CONFIGURATION. Period. The rules changed over a year ago, and prior to that, there was a lot of confusion regarding this issue- which is why there was a modification to the 4473 as well as the policies regarding "pistol only" vs "rifle only" receivers in an effort to minimize confusion. Don't make this complicated. Just keep the configuration legal, and you're GTG.
Just my .02 Hope this helps! ~WTS So just to clarify, based on what conductor said, the above is not true. Once you put a gun in a 2-handed, shoulder fired configuration, it is a rifle. If you pull the butt stock off and shorten the barrel, it's not a pistol, it's an SBR, and may never be considered a pistol again. |