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AR15.COM
1/18/2009 5:32:28 AM EDT
This hasn't happened to me but it could.
I thought about it the other day when I was at the gun shop and a lady brought in a DA revolver that was jammed to the point it could not be unloaded. The gun shop told her they did not do any gunsmithing and it was a felony for her have a loaded gun in her car. She gave them the gun.
But it got me thinking....
I shoot at the I.S.R.A. Range which is about a 25 minute drive from home. What if one of my handguns malfunctioned to the point it could not be unloaded.
How would I lawfuly get it home or to a gunsmith for proper tending?

I guess if this had happened in the past the only thing I could think to do is to call the county sheriff dept and tell them my situation and see what they suggest.
Is there some sort of provision in the IL. compiled statutes?
What'dya think?

Thanks For Your Time
 VonBarky
1/18/2009 5:38:33 AM EDT
[#1]
I guess I would proabably make sure the weapon was safe as possible and unloaded as much as possible before I would put it in the car to take home.

Dont invite "the man" into your life.
1/18/2009 6:28:33 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
This hasn't happened to me but it could.
I thought about it the other day when I was at the gun shop and a lady brought in a DA revolver that was jammed to the point it could not be unloaded. The gun shop told her they did not do any gunsmithing and it was a felony for her have a loaded gun in her car. She gave them the gun.
But it got me thinking....
I shoot at the I.S.R.A. Range which is about a 25 minute drive from home. What if one of my handguns malfunctioned to the point it could not be unloaded.
How would I lawfuly get it home or to a gunsmith for proper tending?

I guess if this had happened in the past the only thing I could think to do is to call the county sheriff dept and tell them my situation and see what they suggest.
Is there some sort of provision in the IL. compiled statutes?
What'dya think?

Thanks For Your Time
 VonBarky


Good question!
I will have to follow this thread to find out the answer to that one myself.
I know what I WOULD DO, but would like to know the legal answer.
1/18/2009 6:29:01 AM EDT
[#3]
There is an exemption in the statute allowing transportation of a weapons that



"(i) are broken down in a non-functioning state;"





The difficulty is meeting that definition. Presumably, the jam prevents disassembly. If it's loaded and cannot be disassembled, the fact that it doesn't function will not likely help you. I would not transport such a weapon in this State.





THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF ILLINOIS,      )     Appeal from the

                                                                                               )     Circuit Court of

          Plaintiff-Appellee,                                    )     Cook County.

                                                                                               )

                        v.                                                                  )    

                                                                                               )

MATT MARTINEZ,                                                             )     Honorable

                                                                                               )     Stanley Sacks,

          Defendant-Appellant.                                   )     Judge Presiding.



          JUSTICE GREIMAN delivered the opinion of the court:

          Matt Martinez (defendant) was convicted of unlawful use of a

weapon in a bench trial held on August 31, 1995. Defendant

appeals his conviction, arguing that his possession of an

inoperable stun gun or taser was not culpable conduct under

section 24-1(a)(4) of the Criminal Code of 1961. 720 ILCS 5/24-

1(a)(4) (West 1994). For the reasons that follow, we affirm.

          On January 12, 1995, defendant, a 28-year-old cab driver,

walked through a metal detector stationed inside Chicago police

headquarters at 1121 South State Street carrying a stun gun in

his fanny pack. Deputy sheriff Daniel Vittrio was operating the

metal detector and observed defendant trigger the machine's

alarm. Vittrio detained defendant and searched his fanny pack,

recovering what "he believed to be a stun gun." Vittrio summoned

the police, who placed defendant under arrest.

          When identifying the stun gun in court, Vittrio testified

that it was in the same condition as when he recovered it on

January 12, 1995. Vittrio confirmed that there was a crack on the

casing near the antennae, but he did not know if this rendered

the gun inoperable. Defense counsel tested the gun against his

own hand, and Vittrio acknowledged that the gun did not "shock"

defense counsel.

          Defendant testified that he purchased the stun gun for

protection in August of 1994. Defendant accidentally dropped the

stun gun in November of 1994, causing a screw to fall out, which

rendered the gun incapable of producing electric current. Also,

one antenna was "different" from the other. Defendant continued

to carry the stun gun because he believed "the sight of it alone

might deter someone from attacking him."

          At the close of trial, the court found defendant guilty of

unlawful use of a weapon and sentenced him to one year's

probation with the provision that he perform 10 hours of

community service. Defendant appeals from this finding and

sentence.

          The relevant inquiry on appeal is whether, upon viewing the

evidence in the light most favorable to the prosecution, any

rational trier of fact could have found the essential elements of

the crime beyond a reasonable doubt. People v. Young, 128 Ill. 2d

1, 49 (1989).

          "A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons

[UUW] when he knowingly *** [c]arries or possesses in any vehicle

or concealed on or about his person except when on his land or in

his own abode or fixed place of business any pistol, revolver,

stun gun or taser or other firearm." 720 ILCS 5/24-1(a)(4) (West

1992). By statutory definition, a "stun gun or taser" means:

                                   "(i) any device which is powered by electrical

                        charging units, such as, batteries, and which fires one

                        or several barbs attached to a length of wire and

                        which, upon hitting a human, can send out a current

                        capable of disrupting the person's nervous system in

                        such a manner as to render him incapable of normal

                        functioning or (ii) any device which is powered by

                        electrical charging units, such as batteries, and

                        which, upon contact with a human or clothing worn by a

                        human, can send out current capable of disrupting the

                        person's nervous system in such a manner as to render

                        him incapable of normal functioning." 720 ILCS 5/24-

                        1(a)(10) (West 1992).

          Defendant maintains that because his stun gun was inoperable

at the time of his arrest, it does not meet the definition of

"stun gun" found in section 24-1(a)(10). Therefore, he argues,

the State failed to prove him guilty of UUW beyond a reasonable

doubt. This argument is premised on defendant's interpretation of

the language "can send out a current capable of disrupting the

person's nervous system in such a manner as to render him

incapable of normal functioning." (Emphasis added.) 720 ILCS 24-

1(a)(10) (West 1992). Since a broken stun gun is not capable of

emitting such a charge, it does not, defendant argues, qualify as

a prohibited weapon under section 24-1(a)(4).

          Defendant's argument, though provocative, is misplaced.

Contrary to defendant's interpretation, we find the words "can

send" to be descriptive of a stun gun and its function rather

than requiring a present ability to send an incapacitating

charge. A stun gun, like any other tool or device, is not changed

in character merely because of its present inability to perform.

This finding is amply supported by precedent dealing with

firearms. See People v. Williams, 266 Ill. App. 3d 752, 755

(1994) (unloaded handgun); People v. Trask, 167 Ill. App. 3d 694,

708 (1988) (unloaded shotgun); People v. Delk, 96 Ill. App. 3d

891, 903 (1981) (rusty, unloaded and difficult-to-pump shotgun);

People v. Strompolis, 2 Ill. App. 3d 289, 292 (1971) (unloaded,

encased shotgun); People v. White, 33 Ill. App. 3d 523, 530

(1975) (unloaded, broken firing pin); People v. Halley, 131 Ill.

App. 2d 1070, 1072-73 (1971) (witnesses unable to testify whether

gun was real or toy); People v. Hughes, 123 Ill. App. 2d 115, 122

(1970) (inoperable "zip gun").

          The statute does not require that a stun gun be operational

in order to serve as the basis of a UUW charge under section 24-

1(a)(4), and we decline to impose such a requirement. See People

v. Bryant, 128 Ill. 2d 448, 455 (1989) (court's function in

construing statute is to ascertain and effectuate the intent of

the legislature). Accordingly, we affirm the trial court's

finding that defendant's device met the statutory definition of a

stun gun.

          Alternatively, defendant argues that a stun gun made

inoperable because of a missing piece falls within the statutory

exemption for "broken down" or "not immediately accessible"

weapons. Exemptions from criminal liability for the offense of

UUW exist for "weapons that are broken down in a non-functioning

state or are not immediately accessible." 720 ILCS 5/24-2(b)(4)

(West 1992). The defendant bears the burden of proving his

entitlement to the exemption by a preponderance of the evidence.

720 ILCS 5/24-2(h) (West 1992); People v. Smith, 71 Ill. 2d 95,

105 (1978).

          For purposes of the statutory exemptions, accessibility

refers to the proximity of the weapon to the defendant and the

capability of the defendant to reach the weapon. Williams, 266

Ill. App. 3d at 756; Smith, 71 Ill. 2d at 102 ("[s]o long as the

weapon in question is in such proximity to the accused as to lie

within easy reach so that the weapon is readily available for

use, it is 'immediately accessible'"); see also People v.

Bolling, 181 Ill. App. 3d 845 (1989) (handgun in a zippered

athletic bag in the back seat of a car was accessible to the

driver). In the present case, the stun gun's location in

defendant's fanny pack, worn around his waist, was clearly and

immediately accessible.

          Alternatively, defendant argues that his stun gun, which was

missing a screw, had a crack in its casing and was unable to emit

an electric current, was "broken down in a non-functioning

state." 720 ILCS 5/24-2(b)(4) (West 1992). This exemption

requires that the gun must be not only non-functioning but also

broken down, meaning disassembled. Williams, 266 Ill. App. 3d at

756; Delk, 96 Ill. App. 3d at 902-03 (testimony that the shotgun

was unloaded, rusty and difficult to pump did not render the

weapon broken down in a non-functioning state) (and cases cited

therein). Even if the weapon was inoperable at the time of

defendant's arrest, that alone would not prove the statutory

exemption. Williams, 266 Ill. App. 3d at 757; Delk, 96 Ill. App.

3d at 902.

          In People v. Worlds, 80 Ill. App. 3d 628, 632 (1980), the

court found that the "so-called gun," which was rusty, missing a

handle and unable to be cocked, was in such a decrepit state that

it could not properly be classified as a gun or deadly weapon. In

the present case, defendant's stun gun had a crack in the casing,

a missing screw and one "different" antenna. The trial court had

the opportunity to examine the gun at trial (no photograph of the

weapon is in the record before this court) and concluded that it

was not "broken down" for purposes of the exemption. We will

defer to the trial court's finding.

          In People v. Freeman, 196 Ill. App. 3d 370, 371-72 (1990),

the court found that defendant's act of removing the gun's

cylinder prior to transporting it was sufficient to fall within

the "broken down in a non-functioning state" exemption. Here,

defendant dropped the stun gun in November and testified that it

did not work thereafter. This was not an affirmative act to make

the weapon safe for purposes of transport but, rather, an

accident that seemingly rendered the gun inoperable. For all

practical purposes, the stun gun was intact and gave the

impression, as testified to by deputy sheriff Vittrio, that it

was a functional device. That a screw may have come off when

defendant dropped the gun is not analogous to the consciously

disassembled weapon in Freeman. As the State observes, the

exemption applies to weapons that are "broken down," not simply

broken.

          Lastly, defendant contends that stun guns or tasers "have a

unique definition which set[s] them wholly apart from firearms."

Consequently, defense counsel urges this court to avoid analogy

to firearm precedent in this area. We reject this contention, and

advice, because the legislature has expressly included firearms

and stun guns within the category of "unlawful weapons." The fact

that "stun gun" has its own definition is due to the somewhat

technical and uncommon nature of the device, and not the result

of the legislature's intention that such devices receive

treatment separate and apart from other unlawful weapons.

          For the reasons set forth above, we affirm the trial court's

verdict and judgment.

          Affirmed.


1/18/2009 7:18:43 AM EDT
[#4]
How do you transport a jammed gun?


The same way you transport a broken down vehicle with a chain or tow strap: Backroads and good timing....
1/18/2009 7:20:37 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
How do you transport a jammed gun?


The same way you transport a broken down vehicle with a chain or tow strap: Backroads and good timing....




I know Nofffing!
1/18/2009 7:44:54 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
There is an exemption in the statute allowing transportation of a weapons that

"(i) are broken down in a non-functioning state;"


The difficulty is meeting that definition. Presumably, the jam prevents disassembly. If it's loaded and cannot be disassembled, the fact that it doesn't function will not likely help you. I would not transport such a weapon in this State.

THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF ILLINOIS,      )     Appeal from the
                                                                                               )     Circuit Court of
          Plaintiff-Appellee,                                    )     Cook County.
                                                                                               )
                        v.                                                                  )    
                                                                                               )
MATT MARTINEZ,                                                             )     Honorable
                                                                                               )     Stanley Sacks,
          Defendant-Appellant.                                   )     Judge Presiding.

          JUSTICE GREIMAN delivered the opinion of the court:
          Matt Martinez (defendant) was convicted of unlawful use of a
weapon in a bench trial held on August 31, 1995. Defendant
appeals his conviction, arguing that his possession of an
inoperable stun gun or taser was not culpable conduct under
section 24-1(a)(4) of the Criminal Code of 1961. 720 ILCS 5/24-
1(a)(4) (West 1994). For the reasons that follow, we affirm.
          On January 12, 1995, defendant, a 28-year-old cab driver,
walked through a metal detector stationed inside Chicago police
headquarters at 1121 South State Street carrying a stun gun in
his fanny pack. Deputy sheriff Daniel Vittrio was operating the
metal detector and observed defendant trigger the machine's
alarm. Vittrio detained defendant and searched his fanny pack,
recovering what "he believed to be a stun gun." Vittrio summoned
the police, who placed defendant under arrest.
          When identifying the stun gun in court, Vittrio testified
that it was in the same condition as when he recovered it on
January 12, 1995. Vittrio confirmed that there was a crack on the
casing near the antennae, but he did not know if this rendered
the gun inoperable. Defense counsel tested the gun against his
own hand, and Vittrio acknowledged that the gun did not "shock"
defense counsel.
          Defendant testified that he purchased the stun gun for
protection in August of 1994. Defendant accidentally dropped the
stun gun in November of 1994, causing a screw to fall out, which
rendered the gun incapable of producing electric current. Also,
one antenna was "different" from the other. Defendant continued
to carry the stun gun because he believed "the sight of it alone
might deter someone from attacking him."
          At the close of trial, the court found defendant guilty of
unlawful use of a weapon and sentenced him to one year's
probation with the provision that he perform 10 hours of
community service. Defendant appeals from this finding and
sentence.
          The relevant inquiry on appeal is whether, upon viewing the
evidence in the light most favorable to the prosecution, any
rational trier of fact could have found the essential elements of
the crime beyond a reasonable doubt. People v. Young, 128 Ill. 2d
1, 49 (1989).
          "A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons
[UUW] when he knowingly *** [c]arries or possesses in any vehicle
or concealed on or about his person except when on his land or in
his own abode or fixed place of business any pistol, revolver,
stun gun or taser or other firearm." 720 ILCS 5/24-1(a)(4) (West
1992). By statutory definition, a "stun gun or taser" means:
                                   "(i) any device which is powered by electrical
                        charging units, such as, batteries, and which fires one
                        or several barbs attached to a length of wire and
                        which, upon hitting a human, can send out a current
                        capable of disrupting the person's nervous system in
                        such a manner as to render him incapable of normal
                        functioning or (ii) any device which is powered by
                        electrical charging units, such as batteries, and
                        which, upon contact with a human or clothing worn by a
                        human, can send out current capable of disrupting the
                        person's nervous system in such a manner as to render
                        him incapable of normal functioning." 720 ILCS 5/24-
                        1(a)(10) (West 1992).
          Defendant maintains that because his stun gun was inoperable
at the time of his arrest, it does not meet the definition of
"stun gun" found in section 24-1(a)(10). Therefore, he argues,
the State failed to prove him guilty of UUW beyond a reasonable
doubt. This argument is premised on defendant's interpretation of
the language "can send out a current capable of disrupting the
person's nervous system in such a manner as to render him
incapable of normal functioning." (Emphasis added.) 720 ILCS 24-
1(a)(10) (West 1992). Since a broken stun gun is not capable of
emitting such a charge, it does not, defendant argues, qualify as
a prohibited weapon under section 24-1(a)(4).
          Defendant's argument, though provocative, is misplaced.
Contrary to defendant's interpretation, we find the words "can
send" to be descriptive of a stun gun and its function rather
than requiring a present ability to send an incapacitating
charge. A stun gun, like any other tool or device, is not changed
in character merely because of its present inability to perform.
This finding is amply supported by precedent dealing with
firearms. See People v. Williams, 266 Ill. App. 3d 752, 755
(1994) (unloaded handgun); People v. Trask, 167 Ill. App. 3d 694,
708 (1988) (unloaded shotgun); People v. Delk, 96 Ill. App. 3d
891, 903 (1981) (rusty, unloaded and difficult-to-pump shotgun);
People v. Strompolis, 2 Ill. App. 3d 289, 292 (1971) (unloaded,
encased shotgun); People v. White, 33 Ill. App. 3d 523, 530
(1975) (unloaded, broken firing pin); People v. Halley, 131 Ill.
App. 2d 1070, 1072-73 (1971) (witnesses unable to testify whether
gun was real or toy); People v. Hughes, 123 Ill. App. 2d 115, 122
(1970) (inoperable "zip gun").
          The statute does not require that a stun gun be operational
in order to serve as the basis of a UUW charge under section 24-
1(a)(4), and we decline to impose such a requirement. See People
v. Bryant, 128 Ill. 2d 448, 455 (1989) (court's function in
construing statute is to ascertain and effectuate the intent of
the legislature). Accordingly, we affirm the trial court's
finding that defendant's device met the statutory definition of a
stun gun.
          Alternatively, defendant argues that a stun gun made
inoperable because of a missing piece falls within the statutory
exemption for "broken down" or "not immediately accessible"
weapons. Exemptions from criminal liability for the offense of
UUW exist for "weapons that are broken down in a non-functioning
state or are not immediately accessible." 720 ILCS 5/24-2(b)(4)
(West 1992). The defendant bears the burden of proving his
entitlement to the exemption by a preponderance of the evidence.
720 ILCS 5/24-2(h) (West 1992); People v. Smith, 71 Ill. 2d 95,
105 (1978).
          For purposes of the statutory exemptions, accessibility
refers to the proximity of the weapon to the defendant and the
capability of the defendant to reach the weapon. Williams, 266
Ill. App. 3d at 756; Smith, 71 Ill. 2d at 102 ("[s]o long as the
weapon in question is in such proximity to the accused as to lie
within easy reach so that the weapon is readily available for
use, it is 'immediately accessible'"); see also People v.
Bolling, 181 Ill. App. 3d 845 (1989) (handgun in a zippered
athletic bag in the back seat of a car was accessible to the
driver). In the present case, the stun gun's location in
defendant's fanny pack, worn around his waist, was clearly and
immediately accessible.
          Alternatively, defendant argues that his stun gun, which was
missing a screw, had a crack in its casing and was unable to emit
an electric current, was "broken down in a non-functioning
state." 720 ILCS 5/24-2(b)(4) (West 1992). This exemption
requires that the gun must be not only non-functioning but also
broken down, meaning disassembled. Williams, 266 Ill. App. 3d at
756; Delk, 96 Ill. App. 3d at 902-03 (testimony that the shotgun
was unloaded, rusty and difficult to pump did not render the
weapon broken down in a non-functioning state) (and cases cited
therein). Even if the weapon was inoperable at the time of
defendant's arrest, that alone would not prove the statutory
exemption. Williams, 266 Ill. App. 3d at 757; Delk, 96 Ill. App.
3d at 902.
          In People v. Worlds, 80 Ill. App. 3d 628, 632 (1980), the
court found that the "so-called gun," which was rusty, missing a
handle and unable to be cocked, was in such a decrepit state that
it could not properly be classified as a gun or deadly weapon. In
the present case, defendant's stun gun had a crack in the casing,
a missing screw and one "different" antenna. The trial court had
the opportunity to examine the gun at trial (no photograph of the
weapon is in the record before this court) and concluded that it
was not "broken down" for purposes of the exemption. We will
defer to the trial court's finding.
          In People v. Freeman, 196 Ill. App. 3d 370, 371-72 (1990),
the court found that defendant's act of removing the gun's
cylinder prior to transporting it was sufficient to fall within
the "broken down in a non-functioning state" exemption. Here,
defendant dropped the stun gun in November and testified that it
did not work thereafter. This was not an affirmative act to make
the weapon safe for purposes of transport but, rather, an
accident that seemingly rendered the gun inoperable. For all
practical purposes, the stun gun was intact and gave the
impression, as testified to by deputy sheriff Vittrio, that it
was a functional device. That a screw may have come off when
defendant dropped the gun is not analogous to the consciously
disassembled weapon in Freeman. As the State observes, the
exemption applies to weapons that are "broken down," not simply
broken.
          Lastly, defendant contends that stun guns or tasers "have a
unique definition which set[s] them wholly apart from firearms."
Consequently, defense counsel urges this court to avoid analogy
to firearm precedent in this area. We reject this contention, and
advice, because the legislature has expressly included firearms
and stun guns within the category of "unlawful weapons." The fact
that "stun gun" has its own definition is due to the somewhat
technical and uncommon nature of the device, and not the result
of the legislature's intention that such devices receive
treatment separate and apart from other unlawful weapons.
          For the reasons set forth above, we affirm the trial court's
verdict and judgment.
          Affirmed.






While I understand that the fact that even if the gun is inoperable an individual can be charged with UUW, what would you do when it was time to leave the range if you wouldn't transport it? Would you turn it over to LE or would you just leave the gun at the range or what?

Personally, I'm pretty sure that I could clear the weapon in just about any circumstance.
I'd be curious to know how a DA revelver was so jammed that it could not be cleared. I bet the gun shop figured out a way to clear it.

If I couldn't clear it for some reason, I'd stash it in the trunk and take it home and figure out how to fix it later. I don't think I would give it away under any circumstances.

1/18/2009 9:31:35 AM EDT
[#7]
Heres what I would do.

Do my best to unload it, and if that didn't work, confirm that it was in a non functioning state.  The law says non-functioning state, so I'd think a jammed gun would qualify as that.

Put it in a case, lock the case, and put the case in the trunk.  

Honestly, if you were transporting it directly home, or on your way to a gunsmith, I doubt you'd have any trouble.  Explain what you are doing if necessary, and I'll be you will be ok.  Otherwise, ask the officer for a viable alternative to get him thinking about it.  

This is all assuming you're silly enough to even let him get to the point where he can even see your firearm.  

"Are you transporting a firearm".  "yes".  "Can I see it"  "no".
1/18/2009 9:44:16 AM EDT
[#8]
when it comes to police they don't have to follow the law to the letter they have the ability do make there own decisions based upon what a reasonable person would think. i would hope the cop would realize it is not functioning and you had no other choice but to put it back in it case and transport it home in that matter.
1/18/2009 9:46:21 AM EDT
[#9]
AGNTSA.

Was the gun store person a District Attorney? If not it sounds like .

Why? Whether she commited a felony or not depends on her intent and how she got the weapon from her vehicle to the interior of the shop, since UUW can be charged on both a misdemeanor and felony level.

From the State Statute  - available HERE:

(720 ILCS 5/24‑1) (from Ch. 38, par. 24‑1)
   (Text of Section from P.A. 95‑809)
   Sec. 24‑1. Unlawful Use of Weapons.
   (a) A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly:
<snip>
4) Carries or possesses in any vehicle or concealed on or about his person except when on his land or in his own abode or fixed place of business any pistol, revolver, stun gun or taser or other firearm, except that this subsection (a) (4) does not apply to or affect transportation of weapons that meet one of the following conditions:

           (i) are broken down in a non‑functioning state; or  
       (ii) are not immediately accessible; or
           (iii) are unloaded and enclosed in a case, firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container by a person who has been issued a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card;
 

The problem with the cited case decision was that he was carrying the taser at the time - as such that is apples to the oranges in this discussion. The fact that he carried a questionable device into the headquarters of the "Daley Gestapo"* lends a whole new meaning to terminal stupidity.

* (No offense intended to my Brothers on CPD - I know "it's a brass thing")

How would I transport a loaded firearm in Illinois?

In a vehicle? In the trunk by itself, or in a locked (not just closed) case - better yet, if truly concerned about complying with all the restrictions on one's RKBA in this state - in a locked case in the trunk.

In person, going from, say, a vehicle to the gunsmith? In a locked (not just closed) case.

People who only read parts of our legal language try to insist that the gun has to be inaccesible AND in a case, or broken down AND inaccesible, or other combinations.

Read the Statute, and recognize two things:

The use of the language "does not apply to or affect transportation of weapons that meet one of the following conditions"

The placement of the "; or", which reflects an additional singularity of conditions that need to be met: unloaded or broken down or inaccesible.

If the statute said "; and", then multiple conditions would apply.

If the gun is accesible, it must be unloaded or broken down (thus the technical legality of so-called "Illannoys Carry" of an unloaded pistol and loaded mag)

If the gun is inaccesible, it may be functional and/or loaded.
1/18/2009 12:26:51 PM EDT
[#10]


Quoted:

AGNTSA.



Was the gun store person a District Attorney? If not it sounds like
.



Why? Whether she commited a felony or not depends on her intent and how she got the weapon from her vehicle to the interior of the shop, since UUW can be charged on both a misdemeanor and felony level.



From the State Statute - available HERE:





(720 ILCS 5/24&#8209;1) (from Ch. 38, par. 24&#8209;1)

(Text of Section from P.A. 95&#8209;809)

Sec. 24&#8209;1. Unlawful Use of Weapons.

(a) A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly:

<snip>

4) Carries or possesses in any vehicle or concealed on or about his person except when on his land or in his own abode or fixed place of business any pistol, revolver, stun gun or taser or other firearm, except that this subsection (a) (4) does not apply to or affect transportation of weapons that meet one of the following conditions:



(i) are broken down in a non&#8209;functioning state; or

(ii) are not immediately accessible; or

(iii) are unloaded and enclosed in a case, firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container by a person who has been issued a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card;




The problem with the cited case decision was that he was carrying the taser at the time - as such that is apples to the oranges in this discussion. The fact that he carried a questionable device into the headquarters of the "Daley Gestapo"* lends a whole new meaning to terminal stupidity.




* (No offense intended to my Brothers on CPD - I know "it's a brass thing")



How would I transport a loaded firearm in Illinois?



In a vehicle? In the trunk by itself, or in a locked (not just closed) case - better yet, if truly concerned about complying with all the restrictions on one's RKBA in this state - in a locked case in the trunk.



In person, going from, say, a vehicle to the gunsmith? In a locked (not just closed) case.



People who only read parts of our legal language try to insist that the gun has to be inaccesible AND in a case, or broken down AND inaccesible, or other combinations.



Read the Statute, and recognize two things:



The use of the language "does not apply to or affect transportation of weapons that meet one of the following conditions"



The placement of the "; or", which reflects an additional singularity of conditions that need to be met: unloaded or broken down or inaccesible.



If the statute said "; and", then multiple conditions would apply.



If the gun is accesible, it must be unloaded or broken down (thus the technical legality of so-called "Illannoys Carry" of an unloaded pistol and loaded mag)



If the gun is inaccesible, it may be functional and/or loaded.
Good catch. I forgot that exemption entirely.





Quoted:



The law says non-functioning state, so I'd think a jammed gun would qualify as that.


I wouldn't count on it. Tango7 has the right answer.



1/19/2009 11:13:23 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
This hasn't happened to me but it could.
I thought about it the other day when I was at the gun shop and a lady brought in a DA revolver that was jammed to the point it could not be unloaded. The gun shop told her they did not do any gunsmithing and it was a felony for her have a loaded gun in her car. She gave them the gun.
But it got me thinking....
I shoot at the I.S.R.A. Range which is about a 25 minute drive from home. What if one of my handguns malfunctioned to the point it could not be unloaded.
How would I lawfuly get it home or to a gunsmith for proper tending?

I guess if this had happened in the past the only thing I could think to do is to call the county sheriff dept and tell them my situation and see what they suggest.
Is there some sort of provision in the IL. compiled statutes?
What'dya think?

Thanks For Your Time
 VonBarky



What gun shop was this?
1/20/2009 6:41:57 AM EDT
[#12]
When I worked at the range, we went through the NRA Range officer course. I believe that question was asked. If I remember right and Ron can chime in, it the jammed firearm was not to leave the range. But Ron being the great old man thinker that he is made brass rods to solve that problem. I know I unjammed many a rifles from that evil wolf ammo.
1/20/2009 9:23:58 AM EDT
[#13]
most guns, cant you push a pin out for the hammer or trigger?

no way if hell the gun would function if you remove one of those pins..

its probebly not the best. but would put it into a non functioning state.
1/20/2009 12:49:08 PM EDT
[#14]
Worst jam I saw come into Maxon's was a Ruger Black Hawk that was jammed with a cocked hammer and loaded chamber.

Somehow the owner of the gun got some wood stuck between the hammer and action.