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AR15.COM
6/23/2007 9:50:43 PM EDT
This is from IL's "peaceable journey" law.

Peaceable journey law summary

Date updated: Dec 26, 2006 @ 1:01 am

Illinois residents must have a Firearm Owner's Identification (FOID) card. Non-residents do not need a FOID card, but must be in compliance with the non-resident exceptions listed in the FOID Act. Note that a person must be in compliance with the FOID Act, the Unlawful Use of Weapons (UUW) law, and the Wildlife Code simultaneously. While violations of the FOID Act or the Wildlife Code are usually just misdemeanors, violation of the UUW law is usually a felony. Below are the pertinent excerpts from the FOID Act, the UUW law, and the Wildlife Code.

(430 ILCS 65/2) Sec. 2. Firearm Owner's Identification Card required; exceptions:


...(9) Nonresidents whose firearms are unloaded and enclosed in a case;
  (10) Nonresidents who are currently licensed or registered to possess a firearm in their resident state...




This is from the "Unlawful Use of Weapons" text:

(720 ILCS 5/24-1) Sec. 24-1. Unlawful Use of Weapons.

(a) A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly:
(4) Carries or possesses in any vehicle or concealed on or about his person except when on his land or in his own abode or fixed place of business any pistol, revolver, stun gun or taser or other firearm, except that this subsection (a)(4) does not apply to or affect transportation of weapons that meet one of the following conditions:
(i) are broken down in a non?functioning state; or
(ii) are not immediately accessible; or
(iii) are unloaded and enclosed in a case, firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container by a person who has been issued a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card; (Source: P.A. 94?72, eff. 1?1?06.)

Some compact handguns are shipped from the factory in a soft nylon case with a belt loop on the back. It seems to me that one could legally carry a weapon in one of these cases, worn on the belt, as long as it was unloaded. If you carried a pistol in this fashion, with the slide locked open, and a loaded magazine in a seperate belt carrier one would be within the confines of the laws, but still have a weapon readily available. As long as the weapon is in the case and unloaded, a person should be GTG, as far as the law is concerned.

It's not as good as carrying a loaded CCW in a belt holster, but it would sure beat leaving the gun at home.

I would like to hear the opinions of some of our IL members, especially lawyers and police officers.

6/24/2007 4:12:13 AM EDT
[#1]

Some compact handguns are shipped from the factory in a soft nylon case with a belt loop on the back. It seems to me that one could legally carry a weapon in one of these cases, worn on the belt, as long as it was unloaded. If you carried a pistol in this fashion, with the slide locked open, and a loaded magazine in a seperate belt carrier one would be within the confines of the laws, but still have a weapon readily available. As long as the weapon is in the case and unloaded, a person should be GTG, as far as the law is concerned.

It's not as good as carrying a loaded CCW in a belt holster, but it would sure beat leaving the gun at home.

I would like to hear the opinions of some of our IL members, especially lawyers and police officers.


There was a guy from Icarry that suggested that same thing. I think he got into some legal trouble last year over doing what you described. It is a gray area for sure, and if a officer notices your gun you will likley be detained and questioned at the least.

6/24/2007 4:53:00 AM EDT
[#2]
Look at topic, "holster a "case"."
6/24/2007 5:49:09 AM EDT
[#3]

Quoted:
There was a guy from Icarry that suggested that same thing. I think he got into some legal trouble last year over doing what you described. It is a gray area for sure, and if a officer notices your gun you will likley be detained and questioned at the least.


Technically, the guy from ICarry.org was carrying in a holster that he had professionally sewn so that it did not expose the gun.

And he wasn't the first one to come up with it.  Basically, it's called "fannypacking".  www.concealcarry.org/carrylegal.htm

It is MOST DEFINITELY still in legal gray area.  Undoubtedly you will be arrested if you are discovered (or as the ICarry.org episode revealed if you are bold/stupid enough to broadcast it with a holster).  Undoubtedly, you will face large legal bills to regain and keep your freedom.

There is some positive legal authority for doing this, i.e. the McDade and Brunner cases, but I don't think they've created anywhere the level of precedent to rely upon.  Besides they would not be binding on other appellate districts.  Only if ruled on by the IL Supreme Ct. would it be binding.  And unless the composition of the court has changed DRAMATICALLY since the Morton Grove case (i.e. upheld a ban on ALL handguns against constitutional challenge), that isn't likely to happen soon or favorably.

Moreover, you are going to run into the contrary argument that the legislature never intended concealed carry, and that is what you are basically doing, not simply "transporting" your firearm from home to range, etc.  In that sense having it in a fanny pack is more suspect because its less convincing that you were transporting than if you have it in a regular gun case inside something else.  Also, what hasn't been legally tested is whether having the loaded mags either in the same case or immediately accessible/on your person, legally constitutes the firearm being "loaded."  i.e. the law loves to do stuff like "technically it wasn't loaded, but we're going to consider it constructively loaded".  Apparently, enough police follow this logic to cause concern in doing so.  Again, legal gray area -- although probably more favorable to our side because those favoring that interpretation have to prove that it is a reasonable interpretation of the statutory language.

I would say fannypack at your own peril.  If you are discovered, the least that will happen is arrest and a lengthy court battle to clear your name if the DA decides to pursue you (directionally proportional to the distance from Chicago).  The worst, you're probably looking at a felony record (goodbye guns) and a nice couple or few years at your local prison.

If somebody decides to do so, though, I would say maybe stay away from bona fide fannypacks.  I think the police are somewhat wise to them.  There are other things that aren't as noticeable, like day planners (just make sure its fully zippered), or just plain bags or backpacks if you throw a pistol case inside them.

6/24/2007 6:33:32 AM EDT
[#4]
I'm not talking about a modified holster or fanny pack, but strictly about a pistol case that is shipped with the pistol from the factory.
6/25/2007 10:25:53 AM EDT
[#5]

Quoted:


(iii) are unloaded and enclosed in a case, firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container by a person who has been issued a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card

You have to have an IL FOID to have a chance to get aquitted.


Look again. There are exceptions to having the card. Two of which are:

...(9) Nonresidents whose firearms are unloaded and enclosed in a case;
(10) Nonresidents who are currently licensed or registered to possess a firearm in their resident state...
6/25/2007 12:40:13 PM EDT
[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:


(iii) are unloaded and enclosed in a case, firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container by a person who has been issued a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card

You have to have an IL FOID to have a chance to get aquitted.


Look again. There are exceptions to having the card. Two of which are:

...(9) Nonresidents whose firearms are unloaded and enclosed in a case;
(10) Nonresidents who are currently licensed or registered to possess a firearm in their resident state...

Look again.  The specific exemption you are citing requires ALL three things in combination - 1: unloaded  2:in a case, etc  and 3:possesses a valid FOID

You must comply with all elements of the law simultaneously.  Just because one section of the law says you don't need a FOID, another section can require one in particular circumstances.  The caselaw on "fanny pack carry" indicates that all three elements are required for compliance with the UUW statute.  If you don't have a FOID pick the other specified methods of transportation.  
6/25/2007 1:14:28 PM EDT
[#7]
I wouldnt risk it.
6/25/2007 4:00:28 PM EDT
[#8]

Quoted:
The farce of "fanny pack carry" is for FOID cardholders only.


Oops, I forgot that was the case, and neglected to mention it in my post.  
6/27/2007 8:45:52 PM EDT
[#9]
What we teach people at the local NRA classes is, "Just use common sense. Don't do anything that will get you into trouble, even stuff that is borderline legal." The idea is simple: Go by the rules to stay out of trouble. Anything attached to the belt or body in some fashion is a holster. A REAL gun case is one that you carry, not wear. If the gun is totally unloaded with no ammo or magazine in it AND in any kind of case, you'll be alright....EXCEPT in CROOK... errr... Cook County/Chicago. King Richard II and his minions just don't have any sense of humor involving firearms for ANYBODY in their area, including cops. Daley has refused to let CPD retired officers carry concealed guns so the CPD Benevolent has gone around him to get their retired officers allowed to carry concealed in spite of Daley.hard
6/28/2007 2:10:25 AM EDT
[#10]
After reading some CPD blogs, if Herr Daley could get away with it he wouldn't evan let his on duty PO be armed.
6/28/2007 8:18:37 AM EDT
[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:

If somebody decides to do so, though, I would say maybe stay away from bona fide fannypacks.  I think the police are somewhat wise to them.  There are other things that aren't as noticeable, like day planners (just make sure its fully zippered), or just plain bags or backpacks if you throw a pistol case inside them.


They must not be too wise to it.
I've been carrying in a fannypack since 1999.....mostly in Cook County since 1999.
My current Maxpedition bag lets me carry all my junk for work plus a book, phone, keys and glasses in addition to a couple pounds of Life Insurance.


ckmorley



Shhhh
6/28/2007 1:52:22 PM EDT
[#12]
We've had a few arrests already...........charges dropped.

IMHO, Kranish screwed himself and us, with that goofy modified holster. If the waters are muddy now, wait until a Judge decides any sort of fabric cases is a holster.

ckmorley