My Front Sight Experience > Nevada

Posted: 6/10/2007 7:19:40 PM EDT

I wanted to post this for everyone now that I've finally finished my article about Front Sight. I've pasted the text from it below. If you want to see it on my site with the pictures, click here.

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Before I get into my experience at the two courses I took at Front Sight Firearms Institute, I wanted to write about how I got to the point of making a decision to sign up as a life member and attend my first course.

I would say that I grew up around guns. My father was in the Navy his whole life and had quite a few handguns and rifles. I grew up in New Orleans but we also had some land in Hillsdale, MS. We would shoot pretty much every time we went up there. Some of the guns that are embedded in my memory are the little .25 Beretta, Colt Frontier Scout .22 and a Taurus 92. Our father always taught us to put safety first and how to properly handle and shoot whatever it was we were shooting at the time. I thought I was a bit more experienced with guns then some of my other friends and people my age. Then I went into the Army National Guard. We shot a good bit in boot camp and I did pretty well. When I got home we shot maybe once a year.

Since then I never really thought about buying a gun for myself. In the past couple years, I was starting to get an itch to get a gun. I finally had to scratch it and this past November I purchased my first gun, a Beretta 90-two .40. I didn’t do a whole lot of research. I knew I wanted a Beretta in a .40; saw they had this new model that looked pretty nice...SOLD!

Then I started reading some gun magazines and started surfing more and more firearm related websites. I got some information on obtaining a CCW permit and took the class. That’s when I bought my next gun, a Beretta .32 Tomcat for a backup gun. I wanted a smaller gun to conceal and “had” to buy it that day because I wanted to get it listed on my permit with the other one. This is about the time I started realizing I didn’t know as much about guns as I thought.

I had heard about Front Sight from a friend at work whose girlfriend had attended a course. I checked it out and thought how cool it would be to take some classes but didn’t give it much thought. I guess I figured I didn’t have the time or the money. But I did sign up for the free 15 Gun Training Reports that Ignatius Piazza sends out. As I got these reports, I saw that there was some really good information he was sending out. It had its marketing blurbs but the information in the emails was worth.

By the end of the 15 reports, I think I was a bit more interested in attending classes because of the great information they were giving out. I remember thinking if an email newsletter is this good then the actual training must be outstanding, right?

Then I received the Front Sight Legacy DVD in the mail. I didn’t watch it right away but once I did, I was glad I took the time to watch it. Not only is it a training institute but Ignatius also explains the Front Sight Purpose: To POSITIVELY change the image of gun ownership in our lifetime. And I have to say, I was ready to purchase a lifetime membership right then and there. I called the next day and signed up as a Legacy Lifetime Member and managed to get another free membership to give to someone as a Bonus. I also scheduled my first courses, a 2-Day Defensive Handgun Course and a 4-Day Defensive Handgun Course.

The day came to attend the 2-Day course and I just couldn’t wait to get there and see what Front Sight was all about. I was expecting more of a “bootcamp-ish” feel to it but I was way off. I left my house in Las Vegas heading to Front Sight. It was a pretty easy drive which Google Maps said to be about an hour and fifteen minutes away. I’m a freak about getting to places early so it wound up taking me about 45 minutes to get there and I was about an hour early. When I arrived the gates were still locked. So I just waited out until 7AM when someone came around and opened the gates. A Front Sight staff member greeted me, found out which class I was attending, and directed me to the parking area. I also got a paper listing what I needed to bring up to the check-in area. They basically just check out your firearm, gear and ammo and then assign you to a range.

They had a lecture for about an hour that contains the welcome information, a little about Front Sight and an explanation of the different levels of competence among people. I’ll say this right now; EVERY lecture that I have sat through was VERY informative. You may think lecture equals boring but they all had my attention and I learned a great deal from every one.

Next, we were on the range and introduced to the Range Master and other Instructors. My instructor for both courses was Mr. Bishop. He was a retired Army Master Sergeant and sounded like one but had a great sense of humor. They started off with safety which is always #1. Then they group you up with another person and there are two firing relays. You are either on the line (dry) firing or behind that person coaching them. Everyone is responsible for each other’s safety on the range. When you are coaching you are watching the other person to make sure they are handling their weapon properly and also to help them with the technique on which you are currently working. I think this is a great way to train because as I could see, everyone there was ready to learn and help the next person learn as well. I noticed this in my 4-Day course as I already knew how they ran the range as well as how to present properly. So I think I was able to help my partner with certain techniques better from the beginning. A couple of people did notice and asked if I’d been there before. They say that after taking a course there that people will notice how you handle your weapon, how you’re presenting perfectly at the range, etc. That’s true; I noticed this at my range last weekend. Another point I’ll add here is that I practiced between courses and dry practice is definitely key. I noticed a BIG difference in my performance on my 4-Day course. And that’s with just about fifteen to twenty minutes a day of dry practice.

While you are on the range usually you’ll practice a technique dry first a few times and then with live rounds. The targets you are shooting are an average of a few thousand x-rays Ignatius Piazza took during his chiropractic career to give a target of the average person. The targets are also setup on a turning target system that the instructors can control manually or have it setup on timers. We did use some targets that had real people printed on them with weapons in their hands but most of the time we used the silhouette targets that you can see in some of the pictures.

During lunch, you can either eat outside or inside the lecture hall. They either play the Front Sight Story DVD, talk about membership options or some other really good lectures such as how to select a proper defensive handgun and another called Reality of the Streets. Some of the real-life video they showed in the last lecture really makes you realize what kind of things can happen out there. It definitely made me feel like I made the right decision to attend Front Sight to further my firearms training. As I said, I have my CCW so I believe I should have as much training as possible with that weapon I carry every day.

After lunch, you either have to attend another lecture if you are attending for the first time or you practice on certain techniques while the others are in the lecture. I almost wanted to attend the lectures again on my 4-Day course because they were so good but decided the practice would be better.

Some of the things they taught were how to properly present from a holster and fire 2 shots to the thoracic area, how to deliver necessary shots to the cranial vascular cavity for situations such as a failure to stop or a hostage situation. You may think, “Hostage situation???” If someone had one of you loved ones in front of them with a gun to their head, wouldn’t you like to know that you could deliver a guaranteed stopping shot to end the threat to your loved one and yourself? I would! I won’t say that I am 100% after taking the two courses but with practice I can see that I can get to the point when I can be confident in a shot like that. This is the level of training they teach at Front Sight. During both courses, it was pretty amazing to see how some people were on the morning of the first day and then see how well they were doing on the last day. Especially the women! I think they must learn how to shoot easier and faster than us! I really noticed the difference when I went through the Live-Fire Tactical Simulator on the 2-Day course compared to the 4-Day.

Earlier that day we had some training on how to clear halls, rooms and open doors. There wasn’t too much focus on this as that is what their advanced courses are for but they do show you the basics which you can use to practice on your own. Going through the simulator was a lot of fun. It was a house split into two sections that you clear one at a time. After clearing each one, you review the targets with the instructor and he tells you how you did, what you should have done here, etc. I was pretty proud of myself. I had no missed shots, no innocent kills, no hostage kills and most of my necessary head shots. Some of them I placed higher on the forehead or lower on the chin which isn’t in the target area. During my first 2-Day course we did just one room standing and I shot everything….and I mean everything. So within a matter of weeks I could see a drastic difference in my own skills. And I can owe all of this to Front Sight and the fantastic trainers they have on staff.

I’d have to give an A+ to every trainer they had there. Each one of them was very helpful while walking the line; helping everyone get into the correct stance, how to hold the gun properly, presentation…I can go on and on. Every question I had that would come up they had an answer for me.

Two of the more fun things we did were a night shoot and a target shooting competition. During the night shoot, they taught us how to properly present with a flashlight in hand and fire. I remember Mr. Bishop asking me, “Does it hurt [your shoulders]?” I said, “Yes, sir”, and he said, “Then you’re doing it right!” That’s just because you are using muscles you don’t normally use to keep the isometric tension in this technique. The instructors also showed the class the difference in low muzzle flash rounds and regular rounds. I didn’t even know there was such a thing as low flash rounds so that was pretty interesting. The competition we had was an accuracy and speed contest. They randomly selected two people from the class to shoot against each other. The targets were metal and the first one was a grey metal hostage with a white plate representing the hostage taker. You had to present from a holster, get the hostage taker shot, hit an outside metal target at about 15 feet and another one inside at the same distance. The fastest to hit all three without hitting a hostage wins. I lost as I hit the hostage but it was pretty fun. The winner of the 3 handgun courses going on that weekend went heads up and our range won. The winner was a guy that was in the Army. He was something called Military Intelligence? Anyway, he was pretty damn fast!

Something I didn’t think about much before attending Front Sight were malfunctions and reloads. We covered them both in the 2-Day and 4-Day courses but more in the 4-Day course which included them in the skills test. They covered Type I, II and III malfunctions as well as tactical and emergency reloads. I now always carry at least an extra magazine on my support side.

The last two days of the 4-Day course we presented from concealment. I think every other person had a vest but I asked if I could just put my t-shirt over since I was there with my Taurus Millennium Pro PT140 with a Comp-tac C-T.A.C IWB holster. That was fine with them and they said that was better anyway since that’s how I pretty much carry every day. Train how you fight, right? You won’t ever see me with a vest on unless I’m fly-fishing. So that was really good to finally see how it was to PROPERLY present and fire from concealment. On the last day you take a skills test. If you want to go for a graduate or a distinguished graduate, you have to take the skills test presenting from concealment. The skills test covered pretty much all tactics they trained us on throughout the weekend from presentation, different firing drills with different time limits and distances and malfunctions. I think I was pretty close to a graduate certificate but I dropped a magazine doing a tactical reload and missed a couple of shots completely. I managed to nail every one of my malfunctions although I did have a few blood blisters on my hands by the end of the course. That’s mostly because of the small gun that I’m using but with practice I don’t do that much anymore. But by the end of the course, you can safely and easily draw your weapon from a CONCEALED holster and fire two sighted shots to the center of a target 5 yards away - all under 1.5 seconds! And that’s pretty impressive to me.

After taking both of these classes, I was extremely happy that I signed up for a lifetime membership. I know I will be going back as often as possible. I actually switched a scheduled Edged Weapons course for a Handgun Skills Builder course that I’ll be taking on June 16th and 17th. From what they tell me, the Skills Builder course is like the 4-Day course with no lectures so it’s all on the range. I’d recommend at least taking a course at Front Sight if not actually getting a lifetime membership and keeping your own training up to date. You will definitely feel more confident in your gun handling skills especially if you carry every day. Hopefully, I’ll see you in my next course!

Posted: 6/10/2007 7:30:45 PM EDT

[#1]

Not to be a dick, but this all reads like a Guns and Ammo article, or even worse an advertisment.

What do you do for a living?

V
OUT

Posted: 6/10/2007 7:33:04 PM EDT

[#2]

I'm a project manager for a web company. What does that have to do with anything? So I had a good experience and I wrote about it. What's wrong with that?

Posted: 6/10/2007 7:48:13 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
I'm a project manager for a web company. What does that have to do with anything? So I had a good experience and I wrote about it. What's wrong with that?

Nothing at all. I just stated an obvious fact/question. I commend you on your grammar, applicable context, cognizant idea flow and sentence structure.

I am no fan at gazing at anyone's Dangling Participles...

No need to be so defensive

V
OUT

Posted: 6/10/2007 8:16:43 PM EDT

[#4]

I love it 'Boot Campish Feel'

Just go ahead and kill me now I have nothing to live for you Merc.

Let us know when you get to Blackwater and sign the contract.....it should be rich in reading nonetheless.

Posted: 6/11/2007 4:42:10 AM EDT

[#5]

Didn't Front Sight screw a bunch of people who sunk quite a bit of money in that whole land deal out there at their "compound"? I think there's a law suit in the works as well.

Clint Smith wrote an article a few years ago about people who run out and get all this training who don't really have a need for it. It was a pretty good read.

I'm not trying to shit in people's cereal but if you're not a cop or military why spend all kinds of cash on training for stuff you'll most likely never encounter?

Posted: 6/11/2007 5:51:56 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
I'm not trying to shit in people's cereal but if you're not a cop or military why spend all kinds of cash on training for stuff you'll most likely never encounter?

If you can question my wanting to learn HOW to use my homeland defense rifles, it is just as valid to question WHY I want them. Many people here won't stand for the second.

Do you have a carry permit? What the hell for? The statistics tell me you'll never pull it let alone shoot it.

Get the picture?

Posted: 6/11/2007 7:54:23 AM EDT

[#7]

Dude, you spent all that money to be a life member, and you are carrying a Taurus! How serious are you about learning how to protect yourself??? If you have all the time and money to be driving out there, drive to the gun store and buy a Glock, Sig, or a quality 1911.

Posted: 6/11/2007 8:05:27 AM EDT

[#8]

I am going there because I have a CCW and feel that I should have some training if I am going to carry a firearm everyday.

The reason I have the Taurus is that I wasn't sure I wanted a small gun like that so I didn't want to spend a bunch of money. I do have my eye on the Glock 27 but so far I haven't had any problems with the Taurus so why should I replace it? I've only had a couple of malfunctions and they were always because I didn't seat the magazine which was my own fault. So I'd say there is nothing wrong with my Taurus, of course that's just my own personal preference. I have heard some bad things about that gun but no problems here.

Posted: 6/11/2007 8:21:27 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'm not trying to shit in people's cereal but if you're not a cop or military why spend all kinds of cash on training for stuff you'll most likely never encounter?

If you can question my wanting to learn HOW to use my homeland defense rifles, it is just as valid to question WHY I want them. Many people here won't stand for the second.

Do you have a carry permit? What the hell for? The statistics tell me you'll never pull it let alone shoot it.

Get the picture?

He's probably referring to the rather silly firearms classes. Like shooting from a helicopter or from the bed of a pick up and other such nonsense.

Posted: 6/11/2007 8:41:17 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
I'm not trying to shit in people's cereal but if you're not a cop or military why spend all kinds of cash on training for stuff you'll most likely never encounter?

If you're a firearms enthusiast and your interests are in the tactical - practical area (and you have the money), why shouldn't you learn what you want to learn? It's like taking guitar lessons even if you have no plan to start the next biggest Rock & Roll band or learning how to sky-dive even though you have no intention of making a combat jump. -Besides, you never know when you're going to be put in a situation where you are on your own and something you have learned may save your life or someone else's.

Posted: 6/11/2007 9:09:51 AM EDT

[#11]

You know what these places should offer and what you guys should also think about is tactical medicine classes. You stand a greater chance of getting f'ed up during an accident or random bullets than actually having to use your sidearm. Kind of a good idea to know how to control bleeding. Just a thought.

Posted: 6/11/2007 9:10:33 AM EDT

[#12]

You know what these places should offer and what you guys should also think about is tactical medicine classes. You stand a greater chance of getting f'ed up during an accident or random bullets than actually having to use your sidearm. Kind of a good idea to know how to control bleeding. Just a thought.

Posted: 6/11/2007 9:14:22 AM EDT

[#13]

Dang... hostile crowd today

thanks,
Ron

Posted: 6/11/2007 9:16:16 AM EDT

[#14]

I wsa actually looking into some kind of EMT classes but haven't found anything yet. I don't have the time to go through a college level course but I'm sure I can find something. I heard the red cross gave out first aid training for free or something like that. I leearned first aid in boot camp but that was a while ago.

Posted: 6/11/2007 9:19:20 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
I wsa actually looking into some kind of EMT classes but haven't found anything yet. I don't have the time to go through a college level course but I'm sure I can find something. I heard the red cross gave out first aid training for free or something like that. I leearned first aid in boot camp but that was a while ago.

Here is one that I was looking at. Scroll down to towards the bottom and you will see it. These guys offer some great classes.

www.lmsdefense.com/lms/home/courses

thanks,
Ron

Posted: 6/11/2007 9:27:44 AM EDT

[#16]

Thanks, Dr.Cheney. I'll look into them. Does anyone know of anything like this located here in Las Vegas or close to LV?

Posted: 6/11/2007 9:37:27 AM EDT

[#17]

I guess I didn't make myself clear enough. I don't understand why people who aren't a cop, the military, or a private security contractor would want to take the time and the money for advanced tactical classes when they would never utilize the skill sets they would learn.

I'm all for someone taking basic marksmanship and follow on courses in pratical shooting for CCW to make them a better shooter. However, for some guy who works in the IT field to take a class like the 4 Day Advanced Pratical Rifle course offered at Front Sight, is a waste of time and money for them.

The article that Clint Smith wrote basically follows my same train of thought. I don't remember the article word for word but I do remember Mr. Smith's basic notion was that people are wasting their time running around all kitted up and trying to play army or whatever when the training will do them no good. I agree with that.

But if all the Tactical Teddy's in the world much like the denziens of this site want to spend their hard earned money on that kind of thing, so be it.

Posted: 6/11/2007 9:43:14 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
I wsa actually looking into some kind of EMT classes but haven't found anything yet. I don't have the time to go through a college level course but I'm sure I can find something. I heard the red cross gave out first aid training for free or something like that. I leearned first aid in boot camp but that was a while ago.

first aid is nice for basic stuff but that won't help you when you or someone else is bleeding to death. It's good you are looking into that kind of training. One thing to remember is that it is also perishable knowledge and hard to practice. I sure as hell won't let you practice needle decomp on me

Posted: 6/11/2007 9:47:34 AM EDT

[#19]

Yea, that's true. In the college courses I was looking at I remember seeing refresher classes so maybe that's something I should just look into and then going back every so often.

Posted: 6/11/2007 11:17:27 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
I guess I didn't make myself clear enough. I don't understand why people who aren't a cop, the military, or a private security contractor would want to take the time and the money for advanced tactical classes when they would never utilize the skill sets they would learn.

I'm all for someone taking basic marksmanship and follow on courses in pratical shooting for CCW to make them a better shooter. However, for some guy who works in the IT field to take a class like the 4 Day Advanced Pratical Rifle course offered at Front Sight, is a waste of time and money for them.

The article that Clint Smith wrote basically follows my same train of thought. I don't remember the article word for word but I do remember Mr. Smith's basic notion was that people are wasting their time running around all kitted up and trying to play army or whatever when the training will do them no good. I agree with that.

But if all the Tactical Teddy's in the world much like the denziens of this site want to spend their hard earned money on that kind of thing, so be it.

You are obviously welcome to your opinion. Clint also makes a wonderful living training people he thinks is foolish to train, FWIW. I've been to Thunder Ranch and I think you're taking his comments a bit out of context. His point of view was more one of "if you pull that rifle out for a serious social event, you probably won't have all that other stuff". Never did he question the why we were there. After all, his classes are probably 80% civilian.

I don't mean to jump on you, but I have the point of view that I don't question what other people want to do with their spare cash and time, as long as they are fulfilling life's responsibilities. Your initial post very nearly came across as the typical clay shooter or Fudd that looks down on the type of rifles we choose to own.

I'm sure you spend $$ and time on stuff I think would be foolish, but it is your $$ and time. As for me:

It's fun!

It's related to my hobby!

I do it for the same reason a dog licks himself...'cuz I can!

Posted: 6/11/2007 11:52:21 AM EDT

[#21]

If I had money to burn,I'd spend it with Line of Fire.

We were all new once.

Posted: 6/11/2007 12:52:30 PM EDT

[#22]

First off, if you are an avid shooter, regardless of job title, a 4 day class in advanced carbine will not be a waste of time, you will learn something useful to your hobby.

Secondly, it is simply for enjoyment. I have no legitimate job use at this time for those classes but enjoy taking them, it gives me something else to practice when out shooting. I doubt I will ever need to do a transition from a carbine to a handgun in the middle of a fire fight but it's still fun to test your abilities in engaging multiple targets at different ranges with different techniques and weapon systems..

If that isn't a good enough explanation just think of different people's likes and desires. Some people pay 10s of thousands of dollars for one experience in a modern fighter, some pay hundreds to thousands to dog fight in WWII fighters. Some people pay thousands to learn to race Indy or Nascar knowing full well they will never even get behind the wheel again.

John P..

Posted: 6/11/2007 3:55:20 PM EDT

[#23]

height=8

Quoted:
Didn't Front Sight screw a bunch of people who sunk quite a bit of money in that whole land deal out there at their "compound"? I think there's a law suit in the works as well.

Clint Smith wrote an article a few years ago about people who run out and get all this training who don't really have a need for it. It was a pretty good read.

I'm not trying to shit in people's cereal but if you're not a cop or military why spend all kinds of cash on training for stuff you'll most likely never encounter?

It is a class action suit of three people. There were some considerable construction delays due to contractor problems over the past few years, and a few people got antsy and wanted their money back, all the while taking hundreds of courses a year between them. And while it may seem like a collection of people with a common interest of firearms might be creating a compound, a master planned gated community, the like of which is all over this state and others, hardly qualifies as a "compound."

As for the use of tactical training for a civilian, man, I hope to god I never have to use any of it. On the rare chance that I have to use my firearm to protect my family or friends in a hostile situation, I'd sure as shit rather have "wasted my time" and have the skills to rely on, than not.

Posted: 6/11/2007 5:30:02 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
I guess I didn't make myself clear enough. I don't understand why people who aren't a cop, the military, or a private security contractor would want to take the time and the money for advanced tactical classes when they would never utilize the skill sets they would learn.

I'm all for someone taking basic marksmanship and follow on courses in pratical shooting for CCW to make them a better shooter. However, for some guy who works in the IT field to take a class like the 4 Day Advanced Pratical Rifle course offered at Front Sight, is a waste of time and money for them.

The article that Clint Smith wrote basically follows my same train of thought. I don't remember the article word for word but I do remember Mr. Smith's basic notion was that people are wasting their time running around all kitted up and trying to play army or whatever when the training will do them no good. I agree with that.

But if all the Tactical Teddy's in the world much like the denziens of this site want to spend their hard earned money on that kind of thing, so be it.

It's no different than the guys I used to instruct for AMG when I was driving race cars. They'd spend $1300/day to come drive cars on the track and learn new skills that might, just maybe one day, save their lives. Of course it's damn cool to strap on a helmet and go flying around a track in someone else's 550 hp car too.

Who cares what people want to spend their money on? Why do you feel the need to judge them or denigrate them for wanting to play tactical guy? It's a free country. Opinions are like assholes...

Posted: 6/12/2007 7:30:39 AM EDT

[#25]

You know, I really want to like Front Sight. The idea of having such a big, world class firearms training center so close to home really appeals to me. I have just heard too much bad stuff about the place to consider going. It sounds like there are too many shady practices going on their on the business side.

Posted: 6/12/2007 7:49:06 AM EDT

[#26]

What are the shady practices you are referring to? The only bad press I've read is the lawsuit stated above. You should try to pick up a certificate to attend a course and check it out especially if you live close. They usually have some listed on Ebay.

Posted: 6/12/2007 8:11:16 AM EDT

[#27]

Ok - try to help me squared away....

DefensorFortis > what the hell is the English translation of "denziens" and do you kill for a living?

Posted: 6/12/2007 8:20:56 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Ok - try to help me squared away....

DefensorFortis > what the hell is the English translation of "denziens" and do you kill for a living?

Denziens means people who inhabit an area such as the Hometown Forums.

As to my occupation, Im an Air Force Security Forces Craftsman, 3P071 aka. Cop. I'm a veteran of three campaigns in GWOT and a combat veteran. I've been a patrolman, desk sergeant, armorer, MK-19 gunner, protective service detail member, and an 81mm mortarman. So I think that qualifies me to lend my opinion however unpopular.

Posted: 6/12/2007 9:07:18 AM EDT

[#29]

I am glad that people take classes like this. First, it's way less gay than spending hundreds of dollars to trot around manicured lawns, chasing a dimpled ball with a stick. Second, it supports the firearms industries. He had to buy gear, ammo, ear protection, guns, etc. Third, if God forbid, he should ever need those skills, he has banked some time on them and will have options that wouldn't be available if he hadn't "wasted" his money.
To me, a better analogy would be the taking of martial arts. It makes you a better person, even if you never use your ninja skills to defeat an invading Samurai army. It's good exercise and good for discipline building.
My opinion probably doesn't carry much weight, since I don't kill for a living...but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express

Posted: 6/12/2007 9:31:13 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I wsa actually looking into some kind of EMT classes but haven't found anything yet. I don't have the time to go through a college level course but I'm sure I can find something. I heard the red cross gave out first aid training for free or something like that. I leearned first aid in boot camp but that was a while ago.

first aid is nice for basic stuff but that won't help you when you or someone else is bleeding to death. It's good you are looking into that kind of training. One thing to remember is that it is also perishable knowledge and hard to practice. I sure as hell won't let you practice needle decomp on me

Hmmm.... chiz45 and I talked about putting a 'first aid for recreational shooters' kind of class a year or so ago. I got the okay from the Health District to put a syllabus together, etc, and AMR did say they'd let me use the facilities to teach it. Not to mention Dr. Carrison said he'd come in and do his ballistics lecture.

I kind of put it away.... life happened.

Is this an idea I should resurrect? Maybe a two or three day class?- not the equlivalent of EMT or even first responder, but at least you'd know the basic first aid for injuries/illnesses you're likely to see here in southern NV out on the range.... at least until the pros get there on scene.

Hell, maybe I can talk TraumaRN (and who else is it on here that works here?the_agent?) into talking a little about what they do at the trauma center with GSW's.....

BTW- FWIW, I'll probably never go to Front Sight. I appreciate the review, kahman, but they've just gotten too much bad press here in NV, and they're a little too pricey for my tastes. I've been pleased with Line of Fire- smaller classes and alot of personalized advice.

Posted: 6/12/2007 9:43:24 AM EDT

[#31]

Hmmm.... chiz45 and I talked about putting a 'first aid for recreational shooters' kind of class a year or so ago. I got the okay from the Health District to put a syllabus together, etc, and AMR did say they'd let me use the facilities to teach it. Not to mention Dr. Carrison said he'd come in and do his ballistics lecture.

I kind of put it away.... life happened.

Is this an idea I should resurrect? Maybe a two or three day class?- not the equlivalent of EMT or even first responder, but at least you'd know the basic first aid for injuries/illnesses you're likely to see here in southern NV out on the range.... at least until the pros get there on scene.

Hell, maybe I can talk TraumaRN (and who else is it on here that works here?the_agent?) into talking a little about what they do at the trauma center with GSW's.....

Sounds like a great idea for a class. I'd be there.

Posted: 6/12/2007 10:07:06 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I wsa actually looking into some kind of EMT classes but haven't found anything yet. I don't have the time to go through a college level course but I'm sure I can find something. I heard the red cross gave out first aid training for free or something like that. I leearned first aid in boot camp but that was a while ago.

first aid is nice for basic stuff but that won't help you when you or someone else is bleeding to death. It's good you are looking into that kind of training. One thing to remember is that it is also perishable knowledge and hard to practice. I sure as hell won't let you practice needle decomp on me

Hmmm.... chiz45 and I talked about putting a 'first aid for recreational shooters' kind of class a year or so ago. I got the okay from the Health District to put a syllabus together, etc, and AMR did say they'd let me use the facilities to teach it. Not to mention Dr. Carrison said he'd come in and do his ballistics lecture.

I kind of put it away.... life happened.

Is this an idea I should resurrect? Maybe a two or three day class?- not the equlivalent of EMT or even first responder, but at least you'd know the basic first aid for injuries/illnesses you're likely to see here in southern NV out on the range.... at least until the pros get there on scene.

Hell, maybe I can talk TraumaRN (and who else is it on here that works here?the_agent?) into talking a little about what they do at the trauma center with GSW's.....

BTW- FWIW, I'll probably never go to Front Sight. I appreciate the review, kahman, but they've just gotten too much bad press here in NV, and they're a little too pricey for my tastes. I've been pleased with Line of Fire- smaller classes and alot of personalized advice.

Been waiting for you to chime in. Go for it, I will help. I'm no medic but I can share the equipment, training and experiences of treating GSW and other misc flying metal, for those who might be the first responder involuntarily.

Posted: 6/12/2007 10:14:55 AM EDT

[#33]

I would definitely be interested in taking a class like this.

Posted: 6/12/2007 10:16:10 AM EDT

[#34]

Originally posted by Bedhead
BTW- FWIW, I'll probably never go to Front Sight. I appreciate the review, kahman, but they've just gotten too much bad press here in NV, and they're a little too pricey for my tastes. I've been pleased with Line of Fire- smaller classes and alot of personalized advice.

Bedhead hit the nail right on the head here. Too much bad press and shady dealings going on there and the prices suck as well. If you want good training go with Joe Nizzari with Line of Fire, good instruction and he wont try to recruit you into his church either.

Posted: 6/12/2007 10:34:51 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Been waiting for you to chime in. Go for it, I will help. I'm no medic but I can share the equipment, training and experiences of treating GSW and other misc flying metal, for those who might be the first responder involuntarily.

That sounds great. I've got alot of time in the rig here in an urban environment, but not being military, I'm sure that I don't have the real live war experience you do.

And yes, you have access to some cool little .mil doodads that I can't get hold of.

We'll see if we can set it up for when you get back.... I'll have to put the syllabus/course together and get approval from SNHD though.

Posted: 6/12/2007 11:36:15 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
and he wont try to recruit you into his church either.

Come on now.. don't just give us a tidbit and leave us hanging... enquiring minds want to know.

thanks,
Ron

Posted: 6/12/2007 11:45:28 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Been waiting for you to chime in. Go for it, I will help. I'm no medic but I can share the equipment, training and experiences of treating GSW and other misc flying metal, for those who might be the first responder involuntarily.

That sounds great. I've got alot of time in the rig here in an urban environment, but not being military, I'm sure that I don't have the real live war experience you do.

And yes, you have access to some cool little .mil doodads that I can't get hold of.

We'll see if we can set it up for when you get back.... I'll have to put the syllabus/course together and get approval from SNHD though.

I think this is a good idea as you both have some important imput to the class. Heck I might even be in to take the class because you never know what could happen in a house with guns or out in Vegas or at the range for that matter.

Posted: 6/12/2007 12:58:12 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
So I think that qualifies me to lend my opinion however unpopular.

You don't need qualifications to have an opinion (other than warm and breathing). I guess that makes you overqualified...

Posted: 6/12/2007 1:58:09 PM EDT

[#39]

I've taken 2 courses at front sight and am a lifetime member. I'm glad I spent the money, and I agree with the review 100%. Although I am getting sick and tired of the constant mail and phone calls asking for membership upgrades. Front Sight solicites more than the NRA, which is pretty bad too. Sure it's for a good cause but come on.

I would also love to take a medic course, if one were available locally.

Posted: 6/12/2007 2:13:30 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

If you want good training go with Joe Nizzari with Line of Fire, good instruction and he wont try to recruit you into his church either.

Nope, he won't. He *might* try to turn you into a vegetarian though...

j/k, Joe.

Posted: 6/12/2007 3:58:06 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
If I had money to burn,I'd spend it with Line of Fire.

We were all new once.

Quoted:

BTW- FWIW, I'll probably never go to Front Sight. I appreciate the review, kahman, but they've just gotten too much bad press here in NV, and they're a little too pricey for my tastes. I've been pleased with Line of Fire- smaller classes and alot of personalized advice.

Quoted:
Bedhead hit the nail right on the head here. Too much bad press and shady dealings going on there and the prices suck as well. If you want good training go with Joe Nizzari with Line of Fire, good instruction and he wont try to recruit you into his church either. [:P

Quoted:

Quoted:

If you want good training go with Joe Nizzari with Line of Fire, good instruction and he wont try to recruit you into his church either.

Nope, he won't. He *might* try to turn you into a vegetarian though...

j/k, Joe.

Thank you for your votes of confidence Guys and Gals.

Those of you that have gone through any Line of Fire, LLC, course know the level of instruction provided, and the caliber of the range staff and how we care about each and every student that sets foot in the classroom and on the firing line.

For those who have participated in Line of Fire courses, I again say Thank You. For those that will be attending courses, I say welcome aboard!

As always, I will continue to serve and maintain my students with the highest quality, profesional firearms and self-defense training.

Be Safe.

Joe

PS: I'll have the Veggie Burger with soy cheese, and lettuce tomato and Nayonaise.

Posted: 6/12/2007 5:12:24 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

PS: I'll have the Veggie Burger with soy cheese, and lettuce tomato and Nayonaise.

Posted: 6/13/2007 8:23:30 AM EDT

[#43]

Front Sight Litigation

Dr. Ignatius Piazza, Front Sight’s creator, billed the 550-acre master planned community as a Disneyland for gun enthusiasts.
Piazza said, “The vision out here at Front Sight is to have the safest town in America.”

Thousands of people bought in with memberships ranging in price from a few thousand to hundreds of thousands of dollars. Most were guaranteed a lifetime of weapons training and six figure deals, called platinum memberships, promised a one-acre homesite.

Dr. Piazza said, “At some point in the future when the development is completed, they’ll have access to a one-acre home site and we'll deed it out to them.”

Bill Haag thought he'd retire on the range. But one year became three, became five with his dream home no closer to completion.

Attorney Keith Greer said, “That’s what happened here. Piazza took other people’s money for investment capital to start his operation and when he got it up and running he hung them out to dry. There’s been no water, no roads, no grating, no electricity.”

In November 2005, Greer filed a class action lawsuit on behalf of Haag and two other members. In it he charged fraud, racketeering and misappropriation of funds by Piazza and the organization.

After months of litigation in federal court, a judge ruled Front Sight could no longer sell memberships without court approval.

Posted: 6/13/2007 8:37:48 AM EDT

[#44]

Front Sight Class Action Complaint/RICO Act Violation

Posted: 6/13/2007 3:42:06 PM EDT

[#45]

There was also the suit with Las Vegas Paving and Martin-Harris Construction for non payment. Last I heard was the courts sided with the contractors.

Posted: 6/13/2007 5:18:42 PM EDT

[#46]

I went to Front Sight once. I have "checked out" some of the "other experts" in town.
I will stick with Progressive Force Concepts
Best experience I have ever had. Reasonable cost, nothing shady and real military training by military people.

Posted: 6/13/2007 9:44:02 PM EDT

[#47]

1337-G

Who did you work for when you drove race cars?

Posted: 6/13/2007 9:53:11 PM EDT

[#48]

When I did the AMG gig I worked for a company out of SoCal called AMCI.

Posted: 6/14/2007 12:29:26 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Don't limit yourself to one style of training. You can learn something from every school you go to.

+1 I've taken a few courses with PFC, and learned alot from each one. With that said, i'd love to train with IShoot (just getting the TIME is hard to do these days). Steve and Brian will tell that their way is not the only way--try what they have to offer, keep what you want, discard what you don't.

Thanks for your interest, Chiz.

I would love to train with you as well, and hopefully you will be able to make training with us in the future.

I hear nothing but good things about PFC, and I know that Steve and his staff are top notch. On the other hand, I hope that you will give LOF a try sometime.

Be Safe.

Joe

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - My Front Sight Experience (Page 1 of 2)

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - My Front Sight Experience (Page 1 of 2)