Posted: 7/5/2014 3:59:29 AM EDT
| After many years of not having an AR I'm more than ready to take the plunge. I've done a lot of research and narrowed it down to a few rifles. S&W mp15 ORC, Stag model 3 and maybe Diamondback DB15B. Any suggestions or words of wisdom? Yes I know building your own is more cost effective but I'm not ready for that. |
| Of the 3 i would say get the stag but you should really just build your own, theres nothing to it. You will get a much better rifle for what you spend. You dont have to build completely from parts. Find a lower, build it up then buy a complete upper and pin it together. There are good deals to be had if you shop around and keep an eye on the EE. |
| I agree building is probably better but it has been so long since I have had an AR. My biggest fear is actually spending more money building than purchasing ready to go rifle. First not sure which tools are needed. Second, so many parts options, what goes with what? I have a few guys I know that say they will help build but I'm hesitant of that. |
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Quoted: I agree building is probably better but it has been so long since I have had an AR. My biggest fear is actually spending more money building than purchasing ready to go rifle. First not sure which tools are needed. Second, so many parts options, what goes with what? I have a few guys I know that say they will help build but I'm hesitant of that. Or pick up a colt 6920 for a ready built
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For a very slight amount more money you can get a much better setup. Going with a better S&W, Colt, or BCM for around $1000-1100 will be the best extra $200-300 you have ever spent in your life. Keep in mind the S&Ws are known to be quality, but some are better than others (twist rates, receiver extensions, etc.).
I've been there and done that and I've had it with hobby guns when 20-25% more money gets you from "maybe" to "100% reliable." I learned these lessons by wasting money and time fighting bullshit non-spec guns that started to shit the bed when you put any kind of round count through them. I have a pile of shit sitting in a closet from guns that wouldn't run, optics that wouldn't hold zero, dangerous holster designs, nylon gear that was poorly fitted and constructed, etc. that I won't even give away because I don't want to feel responsible for another person's frustration with them. I have since applied this lesson to home improvements and my automotive hobby and I can't believe I ever uttered the words "just as good as" and helped other people make the same mistakes I made. The specification, to us, is this: Gun A plus Ammo B equals a working gun. It is a package, a known quantity, and within the limits of mechanical realities (things made by man can fail) it is the most certain you can be about your firearm. Some Walmarts sell the Colt equipped with Magpul furniture for less than $1000. Midwest Industries generally has the basic BCM 16" carbine on the shelf for a little more than $1000 (bonus - support a local company selling another local brand and get some great local Dang! rootbeer while you're filling out your 4473). Either can be bought online and transferred to your local dealer for around $1000-1150 plus shipping and transfer fee depending on exact configuration. You can also save yourself a little money by watching the BCM blemish sales. Buy a separate upper and lower, and push two pins to assemble them for the exact setup you want. That approach might also help you spend the little extra money by amortizing the cost over a longer period of time. |
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I agree with the above posters.
I would highly suggest saving a little bit more money and going with either BCM or Colt. I went with a Colt 6920 and love it. However, if I were to do it all over again, I would buy a complete BCM lower and pair it with a BCM upper of my choice, both purchased from Midwest Industries. I've always been kind of a buy once cry once kind of guy and I feel like for the money your shelling down on a AR (and how long a quality rifle will last you) you might as well go all out. |
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I'm no expert, nor do I have any "high-end" rifles. All I can do is relate my experiences as a novice to the platform.
1st AR I owned is an Eagle/Armalite in rifle configuration. 20" heavy target barrel, A2 stock, flat-top with detachable carry handle. I've got a 4-12X50 scope on it, and it's more accurate than I can shoot. Only mods I made was to add an ambi-safety. It's a "post-ban" that I bought during the AWB. Paid $775 NIB. 2nd is one I built. Again nothing special... built the lower to save money, bought a complete upper from MidwayUSA. Mostly DPMS parts. DPMS stripped lower - $125, DPMS lower parts kit - $50, DPMS ambi-safety - $20, DPMS buffer tube / buffer / spring - $30, Magpul MOE stock - $50, DPMS 16" M3 upper - $400. I bought the upper from Midway on sale, everything else was bought in one day at a B&R gun show in Antigo... about 2 weeks before Obummer's first election. I've got $675 in it, and it took me less than an hour to assemble the lower (my 1st time). 3rd is so new, it hasn't even been fired yet.  Bought a Reaper Tactical lower at a B&R show on Memorial day weekend - $100. Bought a Bushmaster lower parts kit - $55, UTG A2 stock assembly / tube/buffer/spring - $59, CMMG ambi-safety - $25, all from Natchez SS. Assembled it in 30 minutes. Just received a .450 Bushmaster 16" upper day before yesterday. On sale at Midway USA right now (until Monday 4/7) for $549. Already had a scope riser and scope, otherwise the whole gun is $780..... MSRP on a complete .450 Bushmaster rifle is $1521.88 according to Davidson's Gallery of Guns. 
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| OK say I spring for the little extra cash. Where do I start? I guess I know that I'd like a flat top with railed gas block. 5.56 for sure. Ideal use: target shooter and home defense gun. There are hundreds of parts out there. I guess it would be nice if I could compile a list and start shopping. |
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I'm going to go a little away from the pack here.
Build one. As for the whole "need special tools blah blah blah", sure. It depends. But you can get those tools, and they are a lifetime investment. You can then work on your own rifles, without help. Building allows you to buy economy where you can, and invest where you should. Where should you spend? Trigger and barrel. So where can you save? Just about everywhere else. Example: I have an AR in 223 Wylde that will hit an 8" gong at 600 yards all day long if you know how to read wind. At 100 yards, it prints about 3/4 moa consistently, with the odd 1/2 moa refrigerator target. It's a superior lower, Aero upper, jard single stage target trigger, and a 20" stainless Lilja barrel. The bcg in that one happens to be bcm, but any good in-spec bcg will work. The rest of the parts don't matter as long as they are all in spec (reference my use of inexpensive upper/lower). You'll need perhaps $100ish in tools, and a bench vise. It really is easy. |
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I understand. I've been where you are. Pretty sure we all have. Where are you located? I'm sure someone here would be willing to help, myself included (location dependent, of course). Or if you're willing to drive...
Eta: building you own may not be "more cost effective", but you'll end up with a better rifle, and one that is more closely tailored to your goals. |
| I'm 15 minutes SW of Milwaukee. I do have some mechanical abilities so I'm not all thumbs. I have heard good things about Palmetto State parts and found a blem stripped lower but it is high shelf. That's exactly what I'm worried about. Buying parts that won't be compatible. |
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FWIW, I built my first AR, easy peasy. Between this site and Youtube no worries the info is there.
I bought the second, a BCM though Midwest industries. It was there, I wanted it. It was at the range that afternoon. The newest one is being built simply cause its not available off the shelf If you just want to get one, and not bother with being concerned over the right parts. Stop by MI, talk with them and they will hook you up with what your looking for. |
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I agree w/ building your own. If you buy one prebuilt your going to see different things that you wished you had different and then end up changing and spending however much more. But I would just say stop by midwest industries. Love their SSK handguards and they have quality stuff.
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IMHO....
Save a few more bucks for a BCM. I bought one just cuz I wanted it, now it gets 90% of my trigger time. Wife has one, now her DelTon sits in the safe. 2 guys at work bought theirs after seeing mine and they love em. Nothing wrong with building one ( built my Grendel ) but the BCM is worth every penny. Good luck with whatever you decide. |
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Colt 6920 for under $900.
http://www.cdnnsports.com/6920-16-flat-top-rogers-ret.html#.U7ouatm9K0c |
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Since you are close to our shop I incourge you to come in. We will do what can to answer your questions and help you get the most gun you can for your money. Even if you do not buy a gun from us you will leave with with a little more information and will have seen a number of examples of what can done to set up an AR for your purpose.
Thank you, Pete MI |
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Quoted:
Since you are close to our shop I incourge you to come in. We will do what can to answer your questions and help you get the most gun you can for your money. Even if you do not buy a gun from us you will leave with with a little more information and will have seen a number of examples of what can done to set up an AR for your purpose. Thank you, Pete MI +1 |
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Just a word about saving money building an AR.
I build my first one, it was simple and it's perfect. Never a jamb or misfire. My friend that helped me said I'd save money, but idk, If I'd bought online, probably so but there was a local gun show.... Rguns had an upper with a camel toe barrel... I guess I'm too easy of a mark for that kind of stuff! Anyways, I do love that gun but it wasn't cheaper. My second AR is a nice light weight M4 style at slightly over 6 lbs. I'm liking that one a lot too but it's my short range plinker where my first one is for 100 yard tannerite ignition... |
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Quoted:
I'm trying to decide on an upper. PSA has one m4 profile 1 in 7 twist chrome lined with MI hand guard or I found a BCM blem same specs but no BCG or hand guard. Both about same price. Not really budget but better quality. Opinions? Bravo Company is running a promo on their upper receiver groups right now - a lot of them come with BCM auto bolt carrier groups and BCM Mod 0 Compensators installed. You usually need to add a charging handle or source one separately, as well as maybe a handguard but those are user preferences anyways. Bravo Company (BCM) 16" Mid-Length w/BCG and BCM Mod 0 Comp $439 Another option with DD 12" FF Rail for $599 |
| Status update. 80% lower machined, came out perfect. Upper from PSA ordered and estimated arrival date 7/30/14. Super fast considering I had read PSA shipping was slow. Ordered AIM BCG and BCM Gunfighter charging handle. I do need suggestions on a detachable carry handle sight. I'd rather not spend in excess of $100. I checked EE and not much there. |