Posted: 5/8/2013 4:56:23 AM EDT
| I've been kicking around getting one of my lowers SBR'd and changing out one of my 5.56 uppers to a 14.5" barrel. The question I have is the legality of hunting coyotes and fox with this rig. I realize it needs to be 16" for hunting purposes, but with does it have to be a "permanent" 16" or does a flash hider attached count on an SBR as long as the overall length is 16"? |
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Last year the regulations stated that it had to be a 16" unless you had a licensed SBR. I haven't looked this year yet. The paper pamphlet you get with your license has no actual "laws" in it. It is a glorified FAQ. There is a disclaimer on the cover that it is only a "summary" of laws. Quoted:
I've been kicking around getting one of my lowers SBR'd and changing out one of my 5.56 uppers to a 14.5" barrel. The question I have is the legality of hunting coyotes and fox with this rig. I realize it needs to be 16" for hunting purposes, but with does it have to be a "permanent" 16" or does a flash hider attached count on an SBR as long as the overall length is 16"? There are no WI State Statutes or DNR Administrative Code which mention barrel length for a rifle in regards to hunting. There are 2 different minimum barrel length for handguns depending on the game you are hunting. Deer and Bear require a 5 1/2" barrel length. Quoted:
All others are referenced to the same exemption (tax-paid transfer) that lalows general possession and use. This has nothing to do with any "hunting laws". As an example, there is no "law" which states that an unregistered SBR or can is illegal for hunting. They are simply illegal to possess, period. Quoted:
I didnt know this either, good to know. I emailed them about hunting with a AR Pistol, and they said that it was OK also. It is legal to hunt Bear and Deer with an AR pistol so long as it is centerfire and .22 caliber or larger with a 5 1/2" barrel and expanding bullets. If you had a .204 caliber, you may only hunt small game and it must have a 4" barrel. You may possess any caliber and barrel length during any hunting season so long as you are not "hunting" with it and you may not possess any buckshot shells during the 9 day Deer season. |
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Last year the regulations stated that it had to be a 16" unless you had a licensed SBR. I haven't looked this year yet. The paper pamphlet you get with your license has no actual "laws" in it. It is a glorified FAQ. There is a disclaimer on the cover that it is only a "summary" of laws. Quoted:
I've been kicking around getting one of my lowers SBR'd and changing out one of my 5.56 uppers to a 14.5" barrel. The question I have is the legality of hunting coyotes and fox with this rig. I realize it needs to be 16" for hunting purposes, but with does it have to be a "permanent" 16" or does a flash hider attached count on an SBR as long as the overall length is 16"? There are no WI State Statutes or DNR Administrative Code which mention barrel length for a rifle in regards to hunting. There are 2 different minimum barrel length for handguns depending on the game you are hunting. Deer and Bear require a 5 1/2" barrel length. Quoted:
All others are referenced to the same exemption (tax-paid transfer) that lalows general possession and use. This has nothing to do with any "hunting laws". As an example, there is no "law" which states that an unregistered SBR or can is illegal for hunting. They are simply illegal to possess, period. Quoted:
I didnt know this either, good to know. I emailed them about hunting with a AR Pistol, and they said that it was OK also. It is legal to hunt Bear and Deer with an AR pistol so long as it is centerfire and .22 caliber or larger with a 5 1/2" barrel and expanding bullets. If you had a .204 caliber, you may only hunt small game and it must have a 4" barrel. You may possess any caliber and barrel length during any hunting season so long as you are not "hunting" with it and you may not possess any buckshot shells during the 9 day Deer season. The handgun barrel measurements are taken from muzzle to firing pin. On revolvers, the length of the cylinder IS included in the measurement, so the actual barrel can be shorter than the 4" or 5.5" minimums. For example, if your cylinder is 1.5" long, the actual barrel only needs to be 2.5" or 4". I know the discussion here isn't about revolvers, but for the benefit of those who don't know this... well, now they do. 
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Yeah when I looked I was under the impression you could take game with an M203 and HE rounds - I was even lining up donors to make it happen. M203 would be a no-go on game birds because you may not use a single ball. So long as the propellant is some type of "gunpowder", I believe you may use a legally possessed M203 with a solid shell for game animals other than birds. Although I do not see any specific prohibition of using HE shells for hunting, I suspect that the objection would be that you did not use the projectile to take the game, but instead, the force from the explosion. There is the additional issue of WI regulating the use of explosives under Statutes other than those pertaining to hunting. 
Count me in as a donor if you figure how to do it legally.... 
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Yeah when I looked I was under the impression you could take game with an M203 and HE rounds - I was even lining up donors to make it happen. M203 would be a no-go on game birds because you may not use a single ball. So long as the propellant is some type of "gunpowder", I believe you may use a legally possessed M203 with a solid shell for game animals other than birds. Although I do not see any specific prohibition of using HE shells for hunting, I suspect that the objection would be that you did not use the projectile to take the game, but instead, the force from the explosion. There is the additional issue of WI regulating the use of explosives under Statutes other than those pertaining to hunting.
Count me in as a donor if you figure how to do it legally....
They did make shotshell rounds for the M203, but I have never personally seen them... |
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.22 beehives are a no-go due to their caliber, right? Or is it the bore size, not the actually projo size that dictates?
I would just want to show up with a big rubbermaid container full of deer parts and hand the warden a tag and say "we couldn't find an ear." |
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No MGs or DDs (greater than 10 gauge/0.75"), plus the capacity limits on migratory birds. Do you have a cite for the 10ga limit? Before I go any further, yes I know the hand-out rules pamphlets are just a summary of the rules and have no legal weight in themselves... but there's a statute or Admin rule to back them up, they didn't just pull this out of their butts. Don't have time to look now. In the waterfowl rules pamphlet, page 10.... Illegal to: Other Methods:take migratory game birds with a trap, snare, net, rifle, pistol/handgun, swivel gun, shotgun chambered for a shell larger than 10 gauge, punt gun, battery gun, machine gun, fishhook, poison, drug, explosive, or stupefying substance or possess any shotshells larger than no. 10 gauge Small game & turkey regs pamphlet, page 5.... Illegal to: •hunt anygame bird with a shotgun or muzzleloader loaded with shot larger than no. BB; with a single slug or ball; or which is chambered for a shotshell larger than no. 10 gauge. Deer regs pamphlet, page 20.... Shotguns • Must have an overall minimum length of 26” with an 18” minimum barrel length unless you possess a federal license to possess a ‘short-barrelled’ shotgun. • Rifled shotgun barrels of at least 18” in length are considered to be shotguns for the purpose of hunting deer if they fire a single projectile and are in the following gauges: 10, 12, 16, 20, and 28. • It is illegal to hunt deer with a handgun loaded with any .410 shotgun shell ammunition, or any shotgun with a bore of .410 or less. •Buckshot is not legal to use or possess while hunting deer unless you also possess a valid, unfilled bobcat or wolf harvest permit/tag. Rifles |
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Before I go any further, yes I know the hand-out rules pamphlets are just a summary of the rules and have no legal weight in themselves... but there's a statute or Admin rule to back them up, they didn't just pull this out of their butts. Don't have time to look now. As is evident by the confusion they often cause, they really did pull the verbiage out of their butts.  . Just in the last 5 years there have been several outright errors corrected and several clarifications made because of how it has been written in the past.
My thought right now is that (just like SBR/SBSs) they are referring to the general prohibition of owning a shotgun larger than 10ga without being NFA registered. As you recall, until recent years they did not have the disclaimer regarding NFA for SBSs, they simply said that it is illegal to hunt with a shotgun barrel less than 18". I looked through both the Statutes and Admin Code and can find no prohibition of hunting with a larger then 10ga shotgun. The only mention of any shotgun size at all is .410. There is no mention of 10/12/16/20/28, etc in any Admin Code or Statute which I noticed. |
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.22 beehives are a no-go due to their caliber, right? Or is it the bore size, not the actually projo size that dictates? I would just want to show up with a big rubbermaid container full of deer parts and hand the warden a tag and say "we couldn't find an ear." It must be .22 caliber Centerfire. A beehive fires several .22 caliber Rimfire cartridges concurrently. |
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No MGs or DDs (greater than 10 gauge/0.75"), plus the capacity limits on migratory birds. Do you have a cite for the 10ga limit? It's in those hunting pamphlets the state puts out. I don't have one handy. That's where the 10 gauge is cited as the largest bore diameter possible. Mike ETA: Looks like it's already being discussed. I don't have the time to research it all- you can if you've got the time. Just repeating what is being promulgated by state agencies. 
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Fed code?
Title 50 Wildlife and Fisheries Part 20 Migratory Bird Hunting sub part C- Taking § 20.21 What hunting methods are illegal? Migratory birds on which open seasons are prescribed in this part may be taken by any method except those prohibited in this section. No persons shall take migratory game birds: (a) With a trap, snare, net, rifle, pistol, swivel gun, shotgun larger than 10 gauge, punt gun, battery gun, machinegun, fish hook, poison, drug, explosive, or stupefying substance; (b) With a shotgun of any description capable of holding more than three shells, unless it is plugged with a one-piece filler, incapable of removal without disassembling the gun, |
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See also:
NR 10.09 Guns, ammunition and other devices. (1) Prohibited methods. No person shall: (a)Shotshells. 1.`Slugs or balls.' Possess or have in control, while hunting any gamebird, any shotshells loaded with single slug or ball except during the open gun season for deer, elk or bear. 2.`Size.' Possess or have in control, while hunting, shells containing shot larger than no. BB during the period commencing on June 1 and continuing through the last day of any deer season or hunt established in s. NR 10.01 (3) (e), (es), or (et), whichever season is later, except in any of the following circumstances: a. During the open season established in s. NR 10.01 (1) (b), (c) and (g) when nontoxic shot size BBB and T may be used for hunting migratory game birds listed in s. NR 10.01 (1) (b), (c) and (g). b. A person holding a valid permit to harvest a bobcat and an unfilled pelt tag issued under s. NR 10.145 may possess and use shotshells containing shot larger than no. BB for the purpose of hunting bobcat during the open season established in s. NR 10.01 (3) (d). 3.`Game bird hunting.' a. Hunt any game bird with a rifle or shotgun loaded with single ball, pellet, BB or slug or shot larger than no. BB. b. Use or possess shot or shells containing shot larger than no. 2 steel or no. 4 for lead or other no. 4 non-steel shot while hunting wild turkeys. (b)Incendiary shells. Possess or have in control, while hunting, any shell, cartridge or ammunition known as tracer shells, or incendiary shells or cartridges. Distress flares are exempt from this section. (c)Guns and devices. 1.`Type.' Hunt with any means other than the use of a gun designed to be fired from the shoulder utilizing the energy of gun powder or compressed air, bow and arrow or by falconry except: a. Muzzleloaders may be used for hunting, except that any muzzleloader used in the muzzleloading season described in s. NR 10.01 (3) (es) shall have a solid breech plug attached with threads, be capable of being loaded only from the muzzle, use black powder or other black powder substitute, and may include a mounted telescopic sight. b. Hare, rabbit, squirrel, raccoon, fox, coyote, bobcat and unprotected wild animals may be hunted with handguns or pellet guns of .17 caliber or larger. Handguns shall have a minimum barrel length of 4 inches measured from the muzzle to the firing pin with the action closed. c. Deer or bear may be hunted with handguns loaded with centerfire cartridges of .22 caliber or larger and that have a minimum barrel length of 5 ½ inches measured from the muzzle to the firing pin with the action closed. Note: Hunters using handguns must comply with all state and federal laws respecting handguns, including s. 941.23, Stats., respecting concealment, and s. 29.597, Stats., respecting transportation. d. Deer or bear may be hunted with cylinder loading black powder muzzle-loading handguns which are not less than .44 caliber, do not use cartridges, and have a minimum barrel length of 7 inches measured from muzzle to breech face that fire a single projectile weighing not less than 138 grains. e. Crossbows may be used by disabled individuals issued a permit under ss. 29.171 (4) and 29.193 (2), Stats., which authorize the use of a crossbow and by resident senior citizens to hunt small game, bear, deer, elk and wild turkey with an appropriate license, permit and tag if required. Note: In addition, pursuant to ss. 29.164 and 29.171, Stats., crossbows may be used by resident senior citizens for hunting turkey under a license issued under s. 29.164, Stats., bear under a license issued under s. 29.184, Stats., elk under a license issued under s. 29.182, Stats., and for small game and deer under the authority of an archery license issued under s. 29.171, Stats. 2.`Deer or bear hunting.' Hunt any deer or bear with any air rifle, rim-fire rifle, any center-fire rifle less than .22 caliber, any .410 bore or less shotgun or handgun loaded with .410 shotgun shell ammunition or with ammunition loaded with nonexpanding type bullets or ammunition loaded with shot other than a single slug or projectile. 3.`Possession.' Possess any rim-fire rifle larger than .22 caliber or any center-fire rifle .22 caliber or larger in areas wherein there is an open season or hunt specified in s. NR 10.01 (3) for hunting deer with shotgun only unless the rifle is unloaded and enclosed within a carrying case. NR 10.09(1)(d) (d)Automatic firearms. Hunt with a fully automatic firearm. (e)Handguns. Persons possessing a class A or C disabled permit may use handguns chambered for .410 or larger shot shells for hunting all species except deer, elk, bear, turkey and migratory game birds. |
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2.`Deer or bear hunting.' Hunt any deer or bear with any air rifle, rim-fire rifle, any center-fire rifle less than .22 caliber, any .410 bore or less shotgun or handgun loaded with .410 shotgun shell ammunition or with ammunition loaded with nonexpanding type bullets or ammunition loaded with shot other than a single slug or projectile. There it is. Now I have more time to do something else tonight....
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