Posted: 1/28/2013 6:38:45 PM EDT
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Some time back I missed making The Flame's generous reloading class(es) -- more specifically missed the insight as to good gear. However, I did have an opportunity to take a cool hands on class put on by Hornady's Dave Emary himself at Camp Perry. What I learned was I don't the time or more specifically the patience to get into reloading so I never pursued it further. Not sure if I remember any of it actually. Now of course, given current politics etc., it seems a good idea to have some materials put up (yeah, a little late to be starting that). On top of that the parts for a 300 AAC/Blackout upper have arrived, which there is nothing available to feed it with. It seems this would be a good place to start, at least with a small amount. Same goes for working up .308 precision rig loads on a small scale. Of course, both of these are based on the actual project guns getting worked on first even with parts on hand (I'm laughing over here). So the question is what is a good entry startup rig. I guarantee it isn't going to grow on me as it does for many -- it will be a backup system as well as something to do occasional work on, not bulk processing of .223 or what not. I know Lee is local and "ok" (entry level?), Dillon is really good and has endless options, etc. What is in between these ends? Lee has a turret "starter" deluxe kit with various things like a scale, but that scale looks like a POS so I'm not so sure it is a deal when you end up replacing most of it? I'll subscribe to the buy once cry once for some things but in this case that might really be a waste. Thoughts? |
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While Lee equipment would work for you and has very useable die sets, my equipment is RCBS and it is durable and perfoms reloading tasks quite well.
I load .380, 9mm, .223, 7.62x39, 30-30 and 30-06 (Used to do many more)all on the single stage Rockchucker press included in the RCBS master reloading kit. I still have all my original equipment but am on my 2nd tumbler. Wouldn't have a clue on the progressives but my buddy has a Lee he is pleased with. How much do you wish to spend? Maybe having Flame do your loading would be better financially than you purchasing equipment then not use it much. |
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Speed costs money.... How fast you want to go?
Get a single stage and start slow..... As single stages go, Lee will do you as well as anyone.... You you really need to crank out a bazillion rounds of .223 in a weekend , I rent use of the 650 in basement out for beer (to be consumed after all reloading has been ceased of course) |
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Well one thing you should do is to get a few load books for starters, also look into getting a book called "The ABC's of reloading" good book to have. Outside of that get a lyman tumbler for tumbling brass, They are quieter than the Frankford Arsenal tumblers by a LOT.
Other than that I can help with questions as well not to mention there is a ton of information in the reloading forum in the tacked threads at the top there too. |
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Lee makes some pretty solid stuff, but they are inexpensive for a reason. Some of their dies are not made correctly, but other manufacturers have the same issue (oddball calibers based on only one of a series of chamber designs, for example). If I were loading more than a thousand rounds a year, I'd want to go to something more than my turret press (think progressive). I honestly suggest you start with the .308 and a small hand press. It's all about consistent application of the fundamentals, and then you add volume processing later. My buddy Brian and I can walk you through anything; you just have to pop up north a bit some weekend.
I am hurting for a progressive right now; I'm still using a Lee hand press for my match ammo (I can prep and load while "watching" a movie), and a turret press for bulk ammo. I just keep turret heads set up for .45, 38 Super, and .223, and I'm covered for everything I reload. 9mm will be getting a setup soon (when I can find dies again). Oh, and for the time it will take you to process .223 into 300BLK brass, you can buy that shit ready to go CHEAP if you go to the 300blk forum. That's the direction I'm going for my SBR; I can buy thousands of rounds of brass for the cost of the trimmer I'd need to process bulk brass like that. |
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Lee equipment is a bit finicky to setup, but I have had good luck with both my Lee Classic Cast Turret Press (.223, 7.62x54r) and my Lee Pro 1000 (40 S&W). A decent budget choice.
However, as others mention... start with a single stage or similar to get used to making quality reloads and get used to the process (or try a progressive press under supervision). You *will* want to upgrade to a progressive down the road if you want to do any sort of significant volume I've done thousands of rounds through my Lees, but they're not the fastest if you want to maintain quality. |
reloading is an addiction and will often lead to a secondary addiction known as bullet casting. 
It is also a valuable skill that is well worth learning. I started reloading when I was 17 (now 57) so I could afford to shoot more. By the time I hit 20 I was also casting my own boolits, so I could shoot even more. I purchased a used RCBS Rockchucker back then, still use it today, and have no doubt my grandchildren will be using it after I'm gone. Today I probably have 2 - 3K invested in reloading and casting tools but they have paid for themselves many times over. with the current prices of ammo it's well worth it to "find the time" to reload. for example: my practice handgun ammo (w/cast boolits) cost me approx $3.50 per 50 rounds for 9mm, 38, 357, 40, & 45acp, 45LC & 44mag run about $5. |
| I like Lee for certain things, and the fact that they a Wisconsin product helps. Dies are pretty good, and their single stage classic cast is a beast. If you end up going at a faster speed than single stage, you might want to look at rcbs or Dillon as I have heard their turret/progressives are top of the line. |
| Oh, and for powder measures, use the Lee perfect powder measure for rifle, and the autodisk for pistol. Some will tell you otherwise, but this scientist says LOAD VOLUMETRICALLY, not by weight. The weight will change lot to lot and season to season, the physical size of the individual grains stays much more consistent. If you develop loads with ladder testing, you can develop a volumetric load and never weigh another charge again, as your volumetric changes from lot to lot will be less than your normal deviation if you throw charges in the middle of an accuracy node from the ladder. |
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Quoted: While Lee equipment would work for you and has very useable die sets, my equipment is RCBS and it is durable and perfoms reloading tasks quite well. I load .380, 9mm, .223, 7.62x39, 30-30 and 30-06 (Used to do many more)all on the single stage Rockchucker press included in the RCBS master reloading kit. I still have all my original equipment but am on my 2nd tumbler. Wouldn't have a clue on the progressives but my buddy has a Lee he is pleased with. How much do you wish to spend? Maybe having Flame do your loading would be better financially than you purchasing equipment then not use it much. Yes, RCBS, that's the one I was trying to think of. |
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I picked up an RCBS Rock Chucker used for $100 maybe 8 years ago. I was into 300RUM back then and didn't want to spend $3 per shot. Great press and I'm about to break it out again any day now for some long range .223 loads. Here is the entire kit but I'd suggest piecing something together with a used press. The manual scale they include is a pain in the ass and I hate using hand primer tools.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/646599/rcbs-rock-chucker-supreme-single-stage-press-master-kit I've used this scale for weighing bullets, powder, silver coins, and even broadheads! Quick and accurate. Plus it's only $25 more than manual scale. I love this scale My press must be an older style because this is the priming arm that came with it and it works fine. Not sure why they say it can't be used or maybe the guy I bought it from just rigged it to work? Priming Arm I might have a reloading manual on PDF that I can email you. I'll check when I get home tonight. |
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If you're not going the progressive route and getting a single-stage, do yourself a favor and get a turret type press. The advantage over a single stage is you can set your dies once and leave them set by changing turret heads if you want to do another caliber. Single stage presses work, but the downside to them is with only one station at a time, you must constantly switch dies, and every switch requires another adjustment.
I started in reloading back in 1975, with a Mec 650 12ga progressive (which I still have). I was shooting about 5,000 rounds of trap every year, and saved a ton of money by reloading my own. I could get 6-10 reloads out of a AA hull, and I worked not far from Illinois Shot Co, and picked up the bags of shot right at the factory, for cheap. I started loading metallic cartridges in the mid-90s, when my daughter started shooting with me (she would go through ammo like shit through a goose  ) I began with a Lee Challenger package set up, and loaded 9mm & .243 for her guns. I soon expanded into more calibers. I now have a Dillon Square Deal and a Lee 1000 progressive for handgun. The Lee scale looks cheap, as does their powder dispenser, but they do work just fine. I have an old Herters scale made in the 60s that's much better, and also a small electronic scale. I load .380, 9mm, .44 mag, .45acp, .45 Colt, .223, .243, .280, .308, .30-06, .35 Rem, and .45-70. It's an addiction. 
edit: a small cheap "pocket size" electronic scale is a real asset for checking your finished product. The worst things you can have happen is a double load of powder... or no powder.  Shit does happen, and mistakes can be made (especially with progressives). By weighing each finished cartridge before boxing them up for use, you can quickly spot trouble. A pocket electronic scale is super fast for a good check of the finished product.
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Quoted: Keep your eyes open for used gear. My father in law has put together a complete Dillon setup off of Craigslist over the last year for a fraction of what he paid new for his other rig. I've got something even better to trade than cash. I figured I could get something like a commercial production Dillon Super 1050 for two, maybe three PMAGs. New in wrapper of course. I'll learn my lesson about procrastination. I could have scored it three weeks ago for one. |
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Loading volumetrically is what everyone is really doing when they use a powder measure attached to the press. You set a certain volume in cc/mL and then it always throws that volume no matter what the weight. RONCO load-o-matic 2000; Set it and forget it.
Most people just don't really think about it, but you use charge density calculations to set the powder measure originally (you're doing conversions back and forth) so this is a normal procedure for many, they just screw with the consistency by weighing their first charge when sitting down for a new reloading session and adjusting to weight instead of trusting the measure. Instead, just check to mmake sure the micrometer (or whatever adjustment) has not moved and you're GTG. |
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Since you don't seem to want to load large amounts of ammo, I'd start off with a O frame press, a balance beam scale (like RCBS or the like), and a basic lube pad for rifle cases.
I use a Dillon 550B for reloading everything. Kind of minor pain to change the primer tubes for small and large primers. I also have not gotten separate powder chargers for each caliber. I have the lowest end Lee C frame press which I use for depriming and sizing. I find it more conveniant to do so when I plan to polish the cases, since I'll polish the lube off the rifle cases, and get the primer pockets clean too. I do the stainless steel wet tumbling method now. You don't need to do it this way, I just find it looks better, and the primer pockets are cleaner than normal tumbling methods. I also started casting my own bullets, buckshot, and slugs again. The only thing I'll need to worry about are components, powder and primers, and once in a long while, wads. I'm set for now on all those, but you can bet I'll be making it a habit to restock 2:1 when the panic dies down again. A good reloading manual is a big help too. I'd recommend the Lee, as they have a lot of how-to information in it on all aspects of reloading. Once you get familiar with reloading, you can get load data for free from the various powder manufacturers online. |
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Quoted:
I started out small then grew with reloading. It get crappy upgrading and selling off stuff... I wish I would have STARTED with a Dillon 550. Just my $.02 V OUT I got into reloading 5 years ago with a Dillon 550. I even bought the case feeder for it. I've reloaded. 5.56, .38, .357, .45, 9mm and .30 cal carbine. My only wish is that I'd bought a 650. But I'm still happy with it. Never had an issue with it, and it is very consistant. I'm sure that Lee and others are fine machines, but I really like my Dillon. I also like their no bullshit guarantee. I give it 3 thumbs up. 
Ed |
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Don't settle for less than a Dillion 650 w Case Feed if you want to be serious about it. Get a Forster Co-Ax single stage while you're at it. No Shellholders required.
Sizing rifle brass in the 650 is doable for mass prod but I like my Co-Ax for more low volume precision stuff. Also get a digital scale like the RCBS powder dropping model(chargemaster). You can make precision rifle rounds or just use the scale by itself if you want to. The 650 is definitely not perfect and should be tweeked in a few areas to make it perform better but I've never felt that I really should have a 1050. I've always told people the best way to do it is find someone willing to let u use their equipment under supervision. But most people want to do it themselves so that's OK too just costs a lot more. In the last 5 years or so, the cost to reload 9mm, 223, 40, etc was not a whole lot cheaper than buying bulk ammo. The reason I do it is because I require special loads for competition that factory stuff just can't supply. You have to buy components in bulk to save money most times but a lot of rifle especially hunting and match bullet stuff is cheaper to reload no matter what. B-Man |
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Quoted:
Don't settle for less than a Dillion 650 w Case Feed if you want to be serious about it. Get a Forster Co-Ax single stage while you're at it. No Shellholders required. Sizing rifle brass in the 650 is doable for mass prod but I like my Co-Ax for more low volume precision stuff. Also get a digital scale like the RCBS powder dropping model(chargemaster). You can make precision rifle rounds or just use the scale by itself if you want to. The 650 is definitely not perfect and should be tweeked in a few areas to make it perform better but I've never felt that I really should have a 1050. I've always told people the best way to do it is find someone willing to let u use their equipment under supervision. But most people want to do it themselves so that's OK too just costs a lot more. In the last 5 years or so, the cost to reload 9mm, 223, 40, etc was not a whole lot cheaper than buying bulk ammo. The reason I do it is because I require special loads for competition that factory stuff just can't supply. You have to buy components in bulk to save money most times but a lot of rifle especially hunting and match bullet stuff is cheaper to reload no matter what. B-Man Not to derail, but how come you post everything in huge font? |
| I've been using Lee's basic kit since I started reloading last year. i ditched the scale and bought an RCBS one though. Other than that I've been rolling through 9mm and .223 like crazy. It takes a while on a single-stage press and I will probably upgrade to a progressive as I start shooting more. I can't even find 9mm bullets right now so I've kind of put things on hold for the moment. Finding powder and primers has been a bit of a headache too. |
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Hawzwood, The key for me was to purchase equipment that I can count on for the long haul.
I purchased a RCBS master reloading kit and it came with theRockchucker press with primer arm and primer tubes, 505 scale, manual case trimmer kit, Uniflow powder thrower, chamfer tool, sizing pad and lube, I purchased a Lyman tumbler(since deceased) and replaced with a Cabelas tumbler and rotary separator kit. I added an electric RCBS Case Prep Center and that is it. I have since quit using the lube pad and now use Hornady One Shot spray lube, and the case prep center took the place of the manual chamfer tool. I feel by still using my original purchased equipment I am saving money by not buying more and "trading" up so to speak. If I loaded more pistol ammo I would possibly look for a progessive, other than that I load around 4000 rounds per year and my original expense has in my eyes saved me money. I load with all ball or sphereical types propellants so as to keep my loading simplified and the my original Uni-flow works well with the ball types not so much with extruded so I don't use much extruded. Again for me it was KISS and I got into reloading to save money not spend it upgrading equipment. Again YMMV |
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Quoted:
I've been using Lee's basic kit since I started reloading last year. i ditched the scale and bought an RCBS one though. Other than that I've been rolling through 9mm and .223 like crazy. It takes a while on a single-stage press and I will probably upgrade to a progressive as I start shooting more. I can't even find 9mm bullets right now so I've kind of put things on hold for the moment. Finding powder and primers has been a bit of a headache too. I just ordered from this place. I haven't gotten anything delivered as it takes 4-6 weeks but I have heard good things about them. http://www.precisiondelta.com/product.php?cindx=2 |
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Not to derail, but how come you post everything in huge font?
Just tryin to help out the cranky old farts here.. or it didn't look that big in preview..... I suppose if you just want to tinker around you can get the Lee stuff or rcbs or hornady. Next step down from Dillon would be Hornady IMO. I've only been at it for 20 years now so I'm sure there are others here that can offer more wisdom. B-Man |
| <======= Hornady Lock-N-Load guy. Great quality, many different kits to get you started, wide range of equipment, pretty easy to get around here. Cabela's Richfield carries almost their entire line-up. If I need something and just drive up there to get it. (In normal times, of course.) |
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Another vote for Dillon.
If you haven't bought by now though, I'm not sure you should even bother. Dillon is 6-8 weeks out on presses last I heard. Other manufacturers are probably not doing much better. Having said that, Scheels sells Dillon and a small assortment of parts/accessories. I usually go there to window shop, but actually purchase directly from Dillon (mostly because Scheels only has part of what I need in stock, and looking at only part of what I need irritates me that I don't have the rest). |