Posted: 7/19/2012 12:21:10 PM EDT
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Concerning CCW in personal vehicles at work. In a meeting today, we were told that weapons are not allowed on the grounds including personal vehicles. There is a gate and fence around the parking lot with a no weapons sign, and I am sure is means nothing legally. However,... Let's say they somehow DID find out because someone saw your gun in your car, and you were then laid off. What then? This is a contractor we are talking about here, so it is both the policies of the contractor and the vendor, and is on vendor grounds. Seems to me like you would be screwed.
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Concerning CCW in personal vehicles at work. In a meeting today, we were told that weapons are not allowed on the grounds including personal vehicles. There is a gate and fence around the parking lot with a no weapons sign, and I am sure is means nothing legally. However,... Let's say they somehow DID find out because someone saw your gun in your car, and you were then laid off. What then? This is a contractor we are talking about here, so it is both the policies of the contractor and the vendor, and is on vendor grounds. Seems to me like you would be screwed. It was my understanding that your vehicle no matter where it is parked is your personal property and the with the exception of the GFSZ rule a business or property owner cannot prohibit you from having a firearm in your vehicle. Of coures if you step out of your vehicle with the weaopn on then you are technically on their property and can be cited. I am not a lawyer, I just play one in my mind. |
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Concerning CCW in personal vehicles at work. In a meeting today, we were told that weapons are not allowed on the grounds including personal vehicles. There is a gate and fence around the parking lot with a no weapons sign, and I am sure is means nothing legally. However,... Let's say they somehow DID find out because someone saw your gun in your car, and you were then laid off. What then? This is a contractor we are talking about here, so it is both the policies of the contractor and the vendor, and is on vendor grounds. Seems to me like you would be screwed. It was my understanding that your vehicle no matter where it is parked is your personal property and the with the exception of the GFSZ rule a business or property owner cannot prohibit you from having a firearm in your vehicle. Of coures if you step out of your vehicle with the weaopn on then you are technically on their property and can be cited. I am not a lawyer, I just play one in my mind. This is roughly what I have heard as well. |
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This was taken off of the DOJ FAQ
Can an employer prohibit employees from carrying concealed weapons on the job? Yes. An employer may prohibit an employee from carrying a concealed weapon or a particular type of concealed weapon in the course of the employee‘s employment or during any part of the course of the employee‘s employment. Wis. Stat. § 175.60(15m)(a). Does that prohibition apply to my car or the employer’s parking lot? No. An employer may not prohibit a person with a CCW license, as a condition of employment, from carrying a concealed weapon, a particular type of concealed weapon, or ammunition or from storing a weapon, a particular type of weapon, or ammunition in the licensee‘s own motor vehicle, regardless of whether the motor vehicle is used in the course of employment or whether the motor vehicle is driven or parked on property used by the employer. Wis. Stat. § 175.60(15m)(b). Was the contractor using a company issued vehicle? |
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This was taken off of the DOJ FAQ Can an employer prohibit employees from carrying concealed weapons on the job? Yes. An employer may prohibit an employee from carrying a concealed weapon or a particular type of concealed weapon in the course of the employee‘s employment or during any part of the course of the employee‘s employment. Wis. Stat. § 175.60(15m)(a). Does that prohibition apply to my car or the employer’s parking lot? No. An employer may not prohibit a person with a CCW license, as a condition of employment, from carrying a concealed weapon, a particular type of concealed weapon, or ammunition or from storing a weapon, a particular type of weapon, or ammunition in the licensee‘s own motor vehicle, regardless of whether the motor vehicle is used in the course of employment or whether the motor vehicle is driven or parked on property used by the employer. Wis. Stat. § 175.60(15m)(b). Was the contractor using a company issued vehicle? Your vehicle, your choice. State law says so, employers cannot use company policy to violate state statutes. I'd think that if you were disciplined or terminated for violating what amounts to an ILLEGAL condition of employment emposed upon you, you've got both a criminal complaint against the employer and a civil suit. |
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This is a personal vehicle. To further this situation,........... let's say the vendor tells the general contractor that you need to be gone. The general contractor tells the sub-contractor, whom you work for, to get you off the job site. The sub-contractor then lays you off. This ends two ways here, You are then laid off due to "lack of work" officially, or you are employed at another jobsite for a week, then laid off due to "lack of work." Lay offs happen all the time in construction, when work is slow. This will be the excuse. I get that this would be illegal, but what would be done about it? EDIT: A lawsuit obviously would be a choice here, but I think this is how they can get out of it. |
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This is a personal vehicle. To further this situation,........... let's say the vendor tells the general contractor that you need to be gone. The general contractor tells the sub-contractor, whom you work for, to get you off the job site. The sub-contractor then lays you off. This ends two ways here, You are then laid off due to "lack of work" officially, or you are employed at another jobsite for a week, then laid off due to "lack of work." Lay offs happen all the time in construction, when work is slow. This will be the excuse. I get that this would be illegal, but what would be done about it? EDIT: A lawsuit obviously would be a choice here, but I think this is how they can get out of it. In either situation at the very least you would receive unemployment. Where you'd have a legal battle would be over wrongful termination, assuming you were terminated. You'd have to prove that you were removed from the job site for a violation of an illegal rule. Which may be very difficult to prove. |
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This is a personal vehicle. To further this situation,........... let's say the vendor tells the general contractor that you need to be gone. The general contractor tells the sub-contractor, whom you work for, to get you off the job site. The sub-contractor then lays you off. This ends two ways here, You are then laid off due to "lack of work" officially, or you are employed at another jobsite for a week, then laid off due to "lack of work." Lay offs happen all the time in construction, when work is slow. This will be the excuse. I get that this would be illegal, but what would be done about it? EDIT: A lawsuit obviously would be a choice here, but I think this is how they can get out of it. In either situation at the very least you would receive unemployment. Where you'd have a legal battle would be over wrongful termination, assuming you were terminated. You'd have to prove that you were removed from the job site for a violation of an illegal rule. Which may be very difficult to prove. It wouldn't be that hard to prove. Civil trials have a lower burden of proof than criminal trials (no "beyond a reasonable doubt"). They're not going to do anything because so & so "said" he saw a gun, etc. They'd have to have more than that. Anything they could use as proof you have a gun in your vehicle could also be used as proof that it was an unlawful termination. If they claim "lack of work", then they better not replace him. If they immediately replaced him, that's more proof that it's bullshit. IMO, either they don't know the law (and the consequences of not following it) or they think that the employees don't know their rights under the law, and they're blowing smoke in hopes of scaring employees into following their bullshit regulations. Bottom line is, it's his choice, as it's his job at stake. Not yours or mine to make, and I'm not suggesting any course of action for him, because it's not my ass on the line. But I will say this much... I will say what I'd do. I'd say screw 'em, and follow the law, by leaving my gun in my vehicle (well hidden or in a lock-box, I might add). The fact that they're either ignorant of the law, or more likely they're intentionaly defying the law, would piss me off enough to take them on, if needed. Besides, the only way they'd find it is by searching my car. I'd document that search with cell-camera or another method. If then "let go" because of it (or even a bullshit "no work" claim), I'd have plenty of proof for a court case, and I'd willingly use it. Fuck these people who think they can disregard my rights just because they might not agree with that right. |
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If you are (anyone is) not a licensee, there is nothing protecting your (their) ability to store a handgun in your vehicle....  I see nothing prohibiting them from posting against non-licensees.As the very first sentence in the original post was: " Concerning CCW in personal vehicles at work.", I think we can safely assume the OP is talking about legal, licensed CCW. CCW in a vehicle without a license is an illegal act itself. |
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Quoted: Quoted: If you are (anyone is) not a licensee, there is nothing protecting your (their) ability to store a handgun in your vehicle.... I see nothing prohibiting them from posting against non-licensees.As the very first sentence in the original post was: " Concerning CCW in personal vehicles at work.", I think we can safely assume the OP is talking about legal, licensed CCW. CCW in a vehicle without a license is an illegal act itself. Correct, in the meeting, they said..... "even if you have a concealed carry permit". |
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If you are (anyone is) not a licensee, there is nothing protecting your (their) ability to store a handgun in your vehicle.... I see nothing prohibiting them from posting against non-licensees.As the very first sentence in the original post was: " Concerning CCW in personal vehicles at work.", I think we can safely assume the OP is talking about legal, licensed CCW. CCW in a vehicle without a license is an illegal act itself. Correct, in the meeting, they said..... "even if you have a concealed carry permit". So in this meeting, did anyone raise their hand and ask to comment... and tell them they can't prohibit licensees, the fricking LAW says so!??? Wish I was there... I've never been one to not open my big mouth when I had something to say and I knew I was in the right. |
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Quoted: No. I preferred the 'concealed means concealed' personal policy I have, and did not wish to rock the boat so to speak concerning my job. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you are (anyone is) not a licensee, there is nothing protecting your (their) ability to store a handgun in your vehicle.... I see nothing prohibiting them from posting against non-licensees.As the very first sentence in the original post was: " Concerning CCW in personal vehicles at work.", I think we can safely assume the OP is talking about legal, licensed CCW. CCW in a vehicle without a license is an illegal act itself. Correct, in the meeting, they said..... "even if you have a concealed carry permit". So in this meeting, did anyone raise their hand and ask to comment... and tell them they can't prohibit licensees, the fricking LAW says so!??? Wish I was there... I've never been one to not open my big mouth when I had something to say and I knew I was in the right. Like I have said, I think they could get away with this. I saw no point in getting made an example of on the spot, even though they would be in the wrong.
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No. I preferred the 'concealed means concealed' personal policy I have, and did not wish to rock the boat so to speak concerning my job. Quoted:
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If you are (anyone is) not a licensee, there is nothing protecting your (their) ability to store a handgun in your vehicle.... I see nothing prohibiting them from posting against non-licensees.As the very first sentence in the original post was: " Concerning CCW in personal vehicles at work.", I think we can safely assume the OP is talking about legal, licensed CCW. CCW in a vehicle without a license is an illegal act itself. Correct, in the meeting, they said..... "even if you have a concealed carry permit". So in this meeting, did anyone raise their hand and ask to comment... and tell them they can't prohibit licensees, the fricking LAW says so!??? Wish I was there... I've never been one to not open my big mouth when I had something to say and I knew I was in the right. Like I have said, I think they could get away with this. I saw no point in getting made an example of on the spot, even though they would be in the wrong.
I don't blame you for not rocking the boat. But, just because they "might" get away with it doesn't make it right. If I were you, I'd start looking for another job, ASAP. I know times are tough, and I'm not saying quit now, then look. But it doesn't hurt to look around. What I'm saying is, I could not stay there and be happy. I'd have a hard time working for someone who I think would try to circumvent the law. What other laws will they willingly circumvent? Some that pertain to job safety perhaps? They're already totally disregarding your own personal safety going to and from work. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: No. I preferred the 'concealed means concealed' personal policy I have, and did not wish to rock the boat so to speak concerning my job. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you are (anyone is) not a licensee, there is nothing protecting your (their) ability to store a handgun in your vehicle.... I see nothing prohibiting them from posting against non-licensees.As the very first sentence in the original post was: " Concerning CCW in personal vehicles at work.", I think we can safely assume the OP is talking about legal, licensed CCW. CCW in a vehicle without a license is an illegal act itself. Correct, in the meeting, they said..... "even if you have a concealed carry permit". So in this meeting, did anyone raise their hand and ask to comment... and tell them they can't prohibit licensees, the fricking LAW says so!??? Wish I was there... I've never been one to not open my big mouth when I had something to say and I knew I was in the right. Like I have said, I think they could get away with this. I saw no point in getting made an example of on the spot, even though they would be in the wrong. I don't blame you for not rocking the boat. But, just because they "might" get away with it doesn't make it right. If I were you, I'd start looking for another job, ASAP. I know times are tough, and I'm not saying quit now, then look. But it doesn't hurt to look around. What I'm saying is, I could not stay there and be happy. I'd have a hard time working for someone who I think would try to circumvent the law. What other laws will they willingly circumvent? Some that pertain to job safety perhaps? They're already totally disregarding your own personal safety going to and from work. I agree with you there, and I do not want to back to the unemployment line. This is just a discussion on the hypothetical situation in the OP.  |
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No. I preferred the 'concealed means concealed' personal policy I have, and did not wish to rock the boat so to speak concerning my job. Quoted:
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If you are (anyone is) not a licensee, there is nothing protecting your (their) ability to store a handgun in your vehicle.... I see nothing prohibiting them from posting against non-licensees.As the very first sentence in the original post was: " Concerning CCW in personal vehicles at work.", I think we can safely assume the OP is talking about legal, licensed CCW. CCW in a vehicle without a license is an illegal act itself. Correct, in the meeting, they said..... "even if you have a concealed carry permit". So in this meeting, did anyone raise their hand and ask to comment... and tell them they can't prohibit licensees, the fricking LAW says so!??? Wish I was there... I've never been one to not open my big mouth when I had something to say and I knew I was in the right. Like I have said, I think they could get away with this. I saw no point in getting made an example of on the spot, even though they would be in the wrong.
I don't blame you for not rocking the boat. But, just because they "might" get away with it doesn't make it right. If I were you, I'd start looking for another job, ASAP. I know times are tough, and I'm not saying quit now, then look. But it doesn't hurt to look around. What I'm saying is, I could not stay there and be happy. I'd have a hard time working for someone who I think would try to circumvent the law. What other laws will they willingly circumvent? Some that pertain to job safety perhaps? They're already totally disregarding your own personal safety going to and from work. I agree with you there, and I do not want to back to the unemployment line. This is just a discussion on the hypothetical situation in the OP. Gotcha... but just the fact that you brought it up shows me that you're not thrilled with it. I wouldn't be either. Luckily for me, I got out of construction after 20 years, and have been self-employed for 26 years. If someone tells me I can't carry in their building (by posting it) I'll respect that. I might not agree, but I agree it's their choice. But if someone tells me I cannot have a gun in my vehicle parked on their property, they can kiss my ass. I'll walk away, RFN. Did so a few weeks ago. A customer with a no guns policy needed some locks rekeyed. Yes I was in their parking lot, but I did not take a gun from my van. I had 3 in my work van (as I always do)... Ruger 10-22, Glock 19, and Kahr CM9. The Kahr I carry on my person, and because their building is posted, I left it in my van, setting it on the floor behind my van's cab divider, and locking all doors. I removed 4 locks from a building (never stepping inside, BTW...  all the doors open out) and took them back to my van for rekeying. I was inside my van doing so, on the workbench I have inside, when a maintenance employee I was dealing with walked over with one more lock for me to work on. The side doors were open, he saw the Kahr lying on the floor... and had a hissy fit, about "no weapons" signs at the gates, yadda yadda yadda. He made a smart ass remark about my pro-Walker bumper sticker too. I picked up all his locks (one still in pieces), put them in a cardboard box, and handed them to him. "Bye bye", I said. He stood there dumbfounded as I shut the doors, and drove away. I hope he knew how to re-install them. Fuck 'em, I don't need their work, if that's their attitude.
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No. I preferred the 'concealed means concealed' personal policy I have, and did not wish to rock the boat so to speak concerning my job. Quoted:
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If you are (anyone is) not a licensee, there is nothing protecting your (their) ability to store a handgun in your vehicle.... I see nothing prohibiting them from posting against non-licensees.As the very first sentence in the original post was: " Concerning CCW in personal vehicles at work.", I think we can safely assume the OP is talking about legal, licensed CCW. CCW in a vehicle without a license is an illegal act itself. Correct, in the meeting, they said..... "even if you have a concealed carry permit". So in this meeting, did anyone raise their hand and ask to comment... and tell them they can't prohibit licensees, the fricking LAW says so!??? Wish I was there... I've never been one to not open my big mouth when I had something to say and I knew I was in the right. Like I have said, I think they could get away with this. I saw no point in getting made an example of on the spot, even though they would be in the wrong.
I don't blame you for not rocking the boat. But, just because they "might" get away with it doesn't make it right. If I were you, I'd start looking for another job, ASAP. I know times are tough, and I'm not saying quit now, then look. But it doesn't hurt to look around. What I'm saying is, I could not stay there and be happy. I'd have a hard time working for someone who I think would try to circumvent the law. What other laws will they willingly circumvent? Some that pertain to job safety perhaps? They're already totally disregarding your own personal safety going to and from work. I agree with you there, and I do not want to back to the unemployment line. This is just a discussion on the hypothetical situation in the OP. Gotcha... but just the fact that you brought it up shows me that you're not thrilled with it. I wouldn't be either. Luckily for me, I got out of construction after 20 years, and have been self-employed for 26 years. If someone tells me I can't carry in their building (by posting it) I'll respect that. I might not agree, but I agree it's their choice. But if someone tells me I cannot have a gun in my vehicle parked on their property, they can kiss my ass. I'll walk away, RFN. Did so a few weeks ago. A customer with a no guns policy needed some locks rekeyed. Yes I was in their parking lot, but I did not take a gun from my van. I had 3 in my work van (as I always do)... Ruger 10-22, Glock 19, and Kahr CM9. The Kahr I carry on my person, and because their building is posted, I left it in my van, setting it on the floor behind my van's cab divider, and locking all doors. I removed 4 locks from a building (never stepping inside, BTW... all the doors open out) and took them back to my van for rekeying. I was inside my van doing so, on the workbench I have inside, when a maintenance employee I was dealing with walked over with one more lock for me to work on. The side doors were open, he saw the Kahr lying on the floor... and had a hissy fit, about "no weapons" signs at the gates, yadda yadda yadda. He made a smart ass remark about my pro-Walker bumper sticker too. I picked up all his locks (one still in pieces), put them in a cardboard box, and handed them to him. "Bye bye", I said. He stood there dumbfounded as I shut the doors, and drove away. I hope he knew how to re-install them. Fuck 'em, I don't need their work, if that's their attitude.Good for you! It's refreshing to see someone who will "walk the walk" and stand by their convictions even if they take a hit for it. We had a woman come in for a case of root beer, She made a comment that because of the Walker sign on the door, she wasn't going to purchase it out of principal. She then made a statement that she was going to go over to Sprecher to buy a case. I didn't have the heart to tell her that the Sprecher family is extremely active in the Republican Party and Scott Walker campaigns too. |
| From my reading and understanding of the law, the only thing that an employer can restrict in a personal vehicle is that the weapon be kept out of sight. Out of sight meaning a glove compartment, trunk, etc. It's always an uphill battle against an employer who has a lawyer at their disposal, but I applaud your efforts. If it's in your vehicle, out of sight, they wouldn't know it existed. Just my .02. |
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Quoted: From my reading and understanding of the law, the only thing that an employer can restrict in a personal vehicle is that the weapon be kept out of sight. Out of sight meaning a glove compartment, trunk, etc. It's always an uphill battle against an employer who has a lawyer at their disposal, but I applaud your efforts. If it's in your vehicle, out of sight, they wouldn't know it existed. Just my .02. And I am 100% certain the vendor alone in this case has several very expensive lawyers. |
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I would print out copies of the DOJ FAQ and the actual WI statute, pertinent parts in bold, and pin them up around the office when no one was looking.
Do it in random but visible locations. Don't paper the whole office. Do it slowly, one location at a time. And only put up the next one when you notice the first has been taken down. 
Don't print it out on their printers or on their PC's or LAN. |