Posted: 6/24/2011 5:49:36 AM EDT
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So looking over the CCW not strict enough for some gun owners? thread I began wondering how many people who are against a higher standard of training have actually undergone any CCW-oriented training?
I can live with the adopted system but I do think that knowledge is a powerful thing and that if you elect to carry a gun you should also be armed with the knowledge of what you're getting into. It's not about gun handling or marksmanship. It's about keeping your ass out of jail if you actually wind up defending yourself. That's the benefit I found to the CCW-classes I've taken. |
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I have had the type of training that was asked for by the Dems. I took that type of class in '05 to get a MN permit. Do I think people should have a similar or identical class? Absolutely. I've owned handguns for 40 years, was a hunter safety instructor, and I'll be the first to admit I learned quite a bit about the legal issues of self defense and safe ways to carry concealed. I've already advised several people that qualify for the WI permit through hunter safety (which they had years ago), they should go take a cc- oriented class ASAP. It's money well spent, IMO. I'm not an instructor, so I have nothing to gain monetarially.
But on the flip side, do I think training should be required to exercise a constitutional right? No, I don't. But I think most responsible people will do so on their own. The irresponsible probably wouldn't gain anything anyway. If it was mandated, they're just there for a piece of paper, nothing more. They'd be content with just handing over a check and getting the certificate, and skipping the class altogether. |
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Quoted:
I have had the type of training that was asked for by the Dems. I took that type of class in '05 to get a MN permit. Do I think people should have a similar or identical class? Absolutely. I've owned handguns for 40 years, was a hunter safety instructor, and I'll be the first to admit I learned quite a bit about the legal issues of self defense and safe ways to carry concealed. I've already advised several people that qualify for the WI permit through hunter safety (which they had years ago), they should go take a cc- oriented class ASAP. It's money well spent, IMO. I'm not an instructor, so I have nothing to gain monetarially. But on the flip side, do I think training should be required to exercise a constitutional right? No, I don't. But I think most responsible people will do so on their own. The irresponsible probably wouldn't gain anything anyway. If it was mandated, they're just there for a piece of paper, nothing more. They'd be content with just handing over a check and getting the certificate, and skipping the class altogether. This is pretty much how I feel, too. But recent conversation here seems to indicate that pro-training = hidden racist/elitist agenda. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I have had the type of training that was asked for by the Dems. I took that type of class in '05 to get a MN permit. Do I think people should have a similar or identical class? Absolutely. I've owned handguns for 40 years, was a hunter safety instructor, and I'll be the first to admit I learned quite a bit about the legal issues of self defense and safe ways to carry concealed. I've already advised several people that qualify for the WI permit through hunter safety (which they had years ago), they should go take a cc- oriented class ASAP. It's money well spent, IMO. I'm not an instructor, so I have nothing to gain monetarially. But on the flip side, do I think training should be required to exercise a constitutional right? No, I don't. But I think most responsible people will do so on their own. The irresponsible probably wouldn't gain anything anyway. If it was mandated, they're just there for a piece of paper, nothing more. They'd be content with just handing over a check and getting the certificate, and skipping the class altogether. This is pretty much how I feel, too. But recent conversation here seems to indicate that pro-training = hidden racist/elitist agenda. Not quite. pro-.gov-mandated-expensive-lengthy-difficult-to-find-and-schedule-training = hidden racist/elitist agenda. Anyone who says training is a good idea, but stops short of wishing the WI Legislature passed something with more expensive/difficult training, I'm okay with them. And anyone who does not think that SOME, possibly MANY who wish higher level training were MANDATORY, at minimum want to feel like one of the "cool kids" and somehow better than everyone else, or at worst actually are hoping it'll dissuade minorities and people who make them feel "uncomfortable" from getting permits, even if they would have qualified.. has their head in the sand. Putting the whole issue aside that some elderly widow who has her deceased husband's .38, might never pass a class, but does not need a class to stick it in the belly of someone mugging her at point blank range... The more "good guys" that have CCW the better. It's just like herd immunity with vaccinations. And furthermore, the more law-abiding minorities with clean records that have CCW the better too. They can shoot the bad-actors in their communities, with less racial strife, and less media hand-wringing, before one of us is forced to. |
As you discuss the issue of CCW with people who you may know, or may not know, and discover that they wish that more "serious" training had been mandated, press them on that issue as to why. 100% of the people I've pressed on "why" basically say to keep the "undesirables" from getting a permit, regardless of what they actually consider undesirable. "Gasp You mean almost anyone can get a permit?  "
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Quoted:
Should you HAVE to? No. Would I highly recommend it? Yes. Should you be held accountable for your actions? You damn well better beleive it! +1 Should you be held accountable for your actions? You damn well better beleive it!
With that, it is after the fight, the aftermath, so to speak, when your training level will play as much (or more) into the "survival equation", as before the fight. C361 Stan |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Should you HAVE to? No. Would I highly recommend it? Yes. Should you be held accountable for your actions? You damn well better beleive it! +1 Should you be held accountable for your actions? You damn well better beleive it!
With that, it is after the fight, the aftermath, so to speak, when your training level will play as much (or more) into the "survival equation", as before the fight. C361 Stan this sums it up. freedom is just that, being free to make a choice. if someone wants to be ignorant that is their right. mandating every sam dick and jane must get 50 hours of training before getting a CCW permit is idiotic. we need less govt in out life, not more! as far as keeping undesirable people from getting permits, that will be a self correcting problem as those undesirable people will break the law and loose their right to legally carry at some point. and who is to say the people you deem "undesirable" are not carrying for the very same purpose you do? to defend them self from the true scum of the world who would do them harm? hell they may look the part of an "undesirable", but they very well may be a normal guy/gal who just has to live in the neighborhoods with the real bad guys, if anything those individuals need the CCW more than betty and bob brookfield in suburbia |