[ARCHIVED THREAD] - OWI w/ minor question (Page 1 of 5)
Posted: 6/4/2010 10:29:11 AM EDT
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01 Jul 10, it is now a crime to have a person 16 or under in your car if you have an 1O OWI.
So, 02 Jul 10, I am at a BBQ and have a few beers in an hour and then take my daughter (age 14) home and get pulled over OWI. What is the final fine/criminal punitive action? I assume it will be a misdemeanor of sorts. The suggested fine was $350-1100. Confinement from 5 days - 6 mos. Thanks V OUT |
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WI New OWI Laws
5 days to 6 months in jail $350 to $1,100 fine |
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Yay incrementalism..... IT'S FOR THE CHILDREN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ( now what in the blue fuck does that sound so familiar) I'm against incrementalism. I think we should just make 1st-offense OWI a felony. In a better world, Wisconsin wouldn't be the ONLY state in the US where "normal" 1st-offense OWI is not a crime––just a traffic ticket. 
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Yay incrementalism..... IT'S FOR THE CHILDREN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ( now what in the blue fuck does that sound so familiar) I'm against incrementalism. I think we should just make 1st-offense OWI a felony. In a better world, Wisconsin wouldn't be the ONLY state in the US where "normal" 1st-offense OWI is not a crime––just a traffic ticket.
Agreed |
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Well, I don't actually think plain-vanilla 1st offense should be a felony. But it should be a misdemeanor instead of a lousy traffic ticket. And every other state in the Union sees the sense in this. (Of course, 48 other states also have enough common sense to allow CCW...just showing how messed up we are.)
Guess I was just pimping S&P, knowing he and I strongly disagree on the issue. 
(BTW, polio vaccines are "for the children", so I'm against polio vaccines.) |
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Well, I don't actually think plain-vanilla 1st offense should be a felony. But it should be a misdemeanor instead of a lousy traffic ticket. And every other state in the Union sees the sense in this. (Of course, 48 other states also have enough common sense to allow CCW...just showing how messed up we are.) Guess I was just pimping S&P, knowing he and I strongly disagree on the issue.
(BTW, polio vaccines are "for the children", so I'm against polio vaccines.) I think driving somewhere that is not nessecary should be a first offense felony.... I DEFINATLY think hooking up a trailer without proper safty chains , or with the wrong sized ball should be a felony..... Shit Speeding should be a felony too , Running a light , failure to yield the list goes on forever..... Someone could be killed. We need to stop the carnage , regardless of wether or not anything HAPPENS , we need laws based on WHAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN. THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (polio vaccines dont involve the use of force of law against people for victimless crimes BTW, Piss poor analogy) |
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Well, I don't actually think plain-vanilla 1st offense should be a felony. But it should be a misdemeanor instead of a lousy traffic ticket. And every other state in the Union sees the sense in this. (Of course, 48 other states also have enough common sense to allow CCW...just showing how messed up we are.) Guess I was just pimping S&P, knowing he and I strongly disagree on the issue.
(BTW, polio vaccines are "for the children", so I'm against polio vaccines.) I think driving somewhere that is not nessecary should be a first offense felony.... I DEFINATLY think hooking up a trailer without proper safty chains , or with the wrong sized ball should be a felony..... Shit Speeding should be a felony too , Running a light , failure to yield the list goes on forever..... Someone could be killed. We need to stop the carnage , regardless of wether or not anything HAPPENS , we need laws based on WHAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN. THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (polio vaccines dont involve the use of force of law against people for victimless crimes BTW, Piss poor analogy) Willing to answer a hypothetical for me? When you are driving drunk with someone and you get into an accident and kill either your passanger and/or the driver or occupant of another vehicle, would you change you mind on the matter? |
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Well, I don't actually think plain-vanilla 1st offense should be a felony. But it should be a misdemeanor instead of a lousy traffic ticket. And every other state in the Union sees the sense in this. (Of course, 48 other states also have enough common sense to allow CCW...just showing how messed up we are.) Guess I was just pimping S&P, knowing he and I strongly disagree on the issue.
(BTW, polio vaccines are "for the children", so I'm against polio vaccines.) I think driving somewhere that is not nessecary should be a first offense felony.... I DEFINATLY think hooking up a trailer without proper safty chains , or with the wrong sized ball should be a felony..... Shit Speeding should be a felony too , Running a light , failure to yield the list goes on forever..... Someone could be killed. We need to stop the carnage , regardless of wether or not anything HAPPENS , we need laws based on WHAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN. THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (polio vaccines dont involve the use of force of law against people for victimless crimes BTW, Piss poor analogy) Willing to answer a hypothetical for me? When you are driving drunk with someone and you get into an accident and kill either your passanger and/or the driver or occupant of another vehicle, would you change you mind on the matter? No. My turn. Would you change your mind on all of those things I listed being felonies if you killed someone with an improperly hooked trailer or while speeding? (I will say that charges for kiling someone while driving drunk are absolutely in order, Same as charges if you kill someone violating any other traffic law) |
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Well, I don't actually think plain-vanilla 1st offense should be a felony. But it should be a misdemeanor instead of a lousy traffic ticket. And every other state in the Union sees the sense in this. (Of course, 48 other states also have enough common sense to allow CCW...just showing how messed up we are.) Guess I was just pimping S&P, knowing he and I strongly disagree on the issue.
(BTW, polio vaccines are "for the children", so I'm against polio vaccines.) I think driving somewhere that is not nessecary should be a first offense felony.... I DEFINATLY think hooking up a trailer without proper safty chains , or with the wrong sized ball should be a felony..... Shit Speeding should be a felony too , Running a light , failure to yield the list goes on forever..... Someone could be killed. We need to stop the carnage , regardless of wether or not anything HAPPENS , we need laws based on WHAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN. THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (polio vaccines dont involve the use of force of law against people for victimless crimes BTW, Piss poor analogy) Willing to answer a hypothetical for me? When you are driving drunk with someone and you get into an accident and kill either your passanger and/or the driver or occupant of another vehicle, would you change you mind on the matter? No. My turn. Would you change your mind on all of those things I listed being felonies if you killed someone with an improperly hooked trailer or while speeding? (I will say that charges for kiling someone while driving drunk are absolutely in order, Same as charges if you kill someone violating any other traffic law) Apples and oranges. If you are driving drunk you are driving impared. Proven fact. |
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Willing to answer a hypothetical for me? When you are driving drunk with someone and you get into an accident and kill either your passanger and/or the driver or occupant of another vehicle, would you change you mind on the matter? No. My turn. Would you change your mind on all of those things I listed being felonies if you killed someone with an improperly hooked trailer or while speeding? (I will say that charges for kiling someone while driving drunk are absolutely in order, Same as charges if you kill someone violating any other traffic law) Apples and oranges. If you are driving drunk you are driving impared. Proven fact. apples and apples, You are engaging in a behavior that increases the risk you may kill or injure someone..... (so you would make driving on less then 8 hours sleep in the past 24 hours a felony too then correct?) |
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http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100427/GPG0101/100427053/Driver-fined-401-in-trailer-crash-that-killed-teen-in-Howard
Curious Flame.... What punishment should this guy recieve? |
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http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100427/GPG0101/100427053/Driver-fined-401-in-trailer-crash-that-killed-teen-in-Howard Curious Flame.... What punishment should this guy recieve? That is up to a jury to decide. But it seems they should be charged with negligent homicide. |
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http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100427/GPG0101/100427053/Driver-fined-401-in-trailer-crash-that-killed-teen-in-Howard Curious Flame.... What punishment should this guy recieve? That is up to a jury to decide. But it seems they should be charged with negligent homicide. Actually it is not , He was fined $400 case closed ..... No jury, and there is a girl in a box because of it , Now if the desicion he made was not " who needs saftey chains" but "I think I will have a few beers and drive home" and he was caught , He would have been punished worse , even if he hurt no one/ no accident , just a traffic stop.... Why the hypocrisy? ( you never answered my question on driving tired OR changing your mind on Felony improper trailer attachment , or felony first offense speeding ) |
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Do we really need more laws?
If you kill someone, there are plenty of laws already on the books to cover that. I do not drive when I've been drinking. Plain and simple. So don't think I'm supporting drinking and driving. But I don't think more laws will fix anything. Drinking and driving is already against the law. What next? Ban listening to the radio while you drive? it can be just as distracting. Ban phones in cars? Sure...you may not be talking, but what if your phone rings and you "have" to check who it is? Ban driving after dark? Accidents are far more likely to happen at night. I could go on forever and a day. Creating more laws does not solve problems. |
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http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100427/GPG0101/100427053/Driver-fined-401-in-trailer-crash-that-killed-teen-in-Howard Curious Flame.... What punishment should this guy recieve? That is up to a jury to decide. But it seems they should be charged with negligent homicide. Actually it is not , He was fined $400..... No jury, and there is a girl in a box because of it , Now if the desicion he made was not " who needs saftey chains" but "I think I will have a few beers and drive home" and he was caught , He would have been punished worse , even if he hurt no one/ no accident , just a traffic stop.... Why the hypocrisy? ( you never answered my question on driving tired OR changing your mind on Felony improper trailer attachment , or felony first offense speeding ) Ok I see what you are driving at now. I still stand by my statement. I did answer your question. It's not a fair comparison. To bad you cannot see that. I am simply astounded that you think it's ok to drive drunk. But you don't think you are drunk when you drive right?
Ok maybe not a felony on the first offense, or perhaps manditory 90 days in jail for first offense and a $5K fine. Ok ao do you think there should be any punishment for drunk driving? If so, what? An atta boy and heres another beer on me? |
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Do we really need more laws? If you kill someone, there are plenty of laws already on the books to cover that. I do not drive when I've been drinking. Plain and simple. So don't think I'm supporting drinking and driving. But I don't think more laws will fix anything. Drinking and driving is already against the law. What next? Ban listening to the radio while you drive? it can be just as distracting. Ban phones in cars? Sure...you may not be talking, but what if your phone rings and you "have" to check who it is? Ban driving after dark? Accidents are far more likely to happen at night. I could go on forever and a day. Creating more laws does not solve problems. I generally agree we don't need more laws. Yes this is contradicting my previous statements, but I will say again I get tired of the drinking crap in this state. If I see someone drunk driving I am turning you in. Kill a family member............................ |
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Actually it is not , He was fined $400..... No jury, and there is a girl in a box because of it , Now if the desicion he made was not " who needs saftey chains" but "I think I will have a few beers and drive home" and he was caught , He would have been punished worse , even if he hurt no one/ no accident , just a traffic stop.... Why the hypocrisy? ( you never answered my question on driving tired OR changing your mind on Felony improper trailer attachment , or felony first offense speeding ) Ok I see what you are driving at now. I still stand by my statement. I did answer your question. It's not a fair comparison. To bad you cannot see that. I am simply astounded that you think it's ok to drive drunk. But you don't think you are drunk when you drive right?
Ok maybe not a felony on the first offense, or perhaps manditory 90 days in jail for first offense and a $5K fine. Ok ao do you think there should be any punishment for drunk driving? If so, what? An atta boy and heres another beer on me? NO punishment for a crime with no victim. Same as everything else i believe... And you are hiding behine your apples and oranges statement , and ignoring that fact that driving tired and DUI are EXACTLY the same and not hooking chains or sppeding are similar enough to be grouped together, because you know answering my question truthfully will expose YOUR hypocrisy on the matter. It is a fair comparison....You are engaging in a behavior that increases your risk of harming someone, I have told you why it IS a fair comparison, Why don't you enlighten us why is it not .... Maybe baby steps are in order...... WHat is the root cause of Driving drunk being illegal ? You said " you are impared" .... but if you take it a step further isn't the real problem with being impared that you have a higher probability of causing an accident and harming someone? Would you argee with that statement? |
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I guess S&P I don't have a good answer for you. In the end there is nothing you will do or say to change my mind on the dinking and driving subject.
Laws, we don't need more really. We need the current laws to be enforced and actually apply the full penalties. It would also be nice if the people who choose to drink and drive would just die themselves in an accident instead of killing others and then walking away. Sure would serve justice. They would get what they deserve. That said I am done with this conversation. There is nothing more I can add at the moment that will benifit anyone. |
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I guess S&P I don't have a good answer for you. In the end there is nothing you will do or say to change my mind on the dinking and driving subject. Laws, we don't need more really. We need the current laws to be enforced and actually apply the full penalties. It would also be nice if the people who choose to drink and drive would just die themselves in an accident instead of killing others and then walking away. Sure would serve justice. They would get what they deserve. That said I am done with this conversation. There is nothing more I can add at the moment that will benifit anyone. That is a shame , I was hoping at the very least you would discuss open mindedly why you feel the way you do about DUI laws ..... |
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I guess S&P I don't have a good answer for you. In the end there is nothing you will do or say to change my mind on the dinking and driving subject. Laws, we don't need more really. We need the current laws to be enforced and actually apply the full penalties. It would also be nice if the people who choose to drink and drive would just die themselves in an accident instead of killing others and then walking away. Sure would serve justice. They would get what they deserve. That said I am done with this conversation. There is nothing more I can add at the moment that will benifit anyone. That is a shame , I was hoping at the very least you would discuss open mindedly why you feel the way you do about DUI laws ..... Maybe tomorrow. Having the bad day I have has impaired my judgement.
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Quoted: NO punishment for a crime with no victim. Same as everything else i believe... And you are hiding behine your apples and oranges statement , and ignoring that fact that driving tired and DUI are EXACTLY the same and not hooking chains or sppeding are similar enough to be grouped together, because you know answering my question truthfully will expose YOUR hypocrisy on the matter. It is a fair comparison....You are engaging in a behavior that increases your risk of harming someone, I have told you why it IS a fair comparison, Why don't you enlighten us why is it not .... Maybe baby steps are in order...... WHat is the root cause of Driving drunk being illegal ? You said " you are impared" .... but if you take it a step further isn't the real problem with being impared that you have a higher probability of causing an accident and harming someone? Would you argee with that statement? Wow... You are aware that there are tons of crimes with no direct, immediate victim. So you're cool with legalizing ALL drugs, cocaine, heroine, along with child porn, fleeing the police (eluding/fleeing), election fraud, impersonating an office, impersonating military, criminal gang activity, gambling, bribery, mail fraud, virtually all DNR citations (poaching, shining, fishing without a license, etc), operating after revocation, all crimes against animals, sexually violent person commitments... the list goes on, and on. You really think it would be a good idea to do all that along with other decriminalizing other crimes? You don't think there would be ANY adverse affects on society? I think the world of S&P would look something between Road Warrior and The Devil's Rejects  DVDrip.jpg)  |
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I think driving somewhere that is not nessecary should be a first offense felony.... I DEFINATLY think hooking up a trailer without proper safty chains , or with the wrong sized ball should be a felony..... Shit Speeding should be a felony too , Running a light , failure to yield the list goes on forever..... Someone could be killed. We need to stop the carnage , regardless of wether or not anything HAPPENS , we need laws based on WHAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN. THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (polio vaccines dont involve the use of force of law against people for victimless crimes BTW, Piss poor analogy) Of course polio vaccine is a poor analogy. So are safety chains, wrong ball size, speeding, and FYR.
OWI is only "victimless" until there's a victim...and there are LOTS of victims. Between my EMS and LE jobs, I've seen ~25 OWI fatalities. I've never seen one for trailers w/o safety chains. Extending your "victimless crime" logic, I can shoot my AR-15 wildly and negligently around the neighborhood, and you can't do squat until I hit one of your family members, because my reckless behavior hasn't created a victim yet. The mere fact that I've greatly increased the chance of killing your family is irrelevant until I actually do kill someone. I cannot agree with that. S&P have discussed this before, and I'm not going to change his mind, so I shall bow out. Have fun, everyone! |
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Quoted: Quoted: NO punishment for a crime with no victim. Same as everything else i believe... And you are hiding behine your apples and oranges statement , and ignoring that fact that driving tired and DUI are EXACTLY the same and not hooking chains or sppeding are similar enough to be grouped together, because you know answering my question truthfully will expose YOUR hypocrisy on the matter. It is a fair comparison....You are engaging in a behavior that increases your risk of harming someone, I have told you why it IS a fair comparison, Why don't you enlighten us why is it not .... Maybe baby steps are in order...... WHat is the root cause of Driving drunk being illegal ? You said " you are impared" .... but if you take it a step further isn't the real problem with being impared that you have a higher probability of causing an accident and harming someone? Would you argee with that statement? Wow... You are aware that there are tons of crimes with no direct, immediate victim. So you're cool with legalizing ALL drugs, cocaine, heroine, (Yes I am) along with child porn, ( possession or manufacturing? Manufacturing ? I would say the child was the victim would'nt you? Possession? as fucked up as it is, no, this is the road to thought crime) fleeing the police (eluding/fleeing), ( I would say the officer was prevented from doing his job no? ) election fraud, ( now you are just getting ridiculous the person who the FRAUD was against is the victim) impersonating an office, (you have to be misleading someone to be impersonating, Standing in the middle of the woods screaming you are king george hurts no one, Pretending to be "from the government and here to help TO a person would make them a victim) impersonating military, (see above) criminal gang activity, (like what? do tell, Personally I think you are just reaching again so you make make your piss poor analogy at the bottom of your post) gambling, ( should be legal) bribery, (you have to be bribing someone, Meaning you have to want something from them that you are not entitled to , and someone else is, I would think that someone else would be a victim being deprived of whatever it is was rightfully theirs , but given to you ) mail fraud, ( FRAUD, needs a victim.... You really need to THINK about what you are saying and stop knee jerk posting ) virtually all DNR citations (poaching, shining, fishing without a license, etc), (You have no permission to hunt the kings deer", now where have I heard that before?) operating after revocation, (Yeah and ? wheres the victim again?) all crimes against animals, (like putting down your sick dog in Oklahoma , Which is a felony by the way) sexually violent person commitments ( just wait till its "crazy gun owner commitments" and see what you think of it, If they are too dangerous to be out of prison , change the law so they are not out of prison, This is a terribly dangerous end run around the constitution and i am WHOLEHEARTEDLY AGAINST IT) the list goes on, and on. ( is the rest of the list made up bullshit too?) You really think it would be a good idea to do all that along with other decriminalizing other crimes? You don't think there would be ANY adverse affects on society? ( The cost of living in a free society is putting up with other people doing shit you don't like AS LONG AS THEY ARE NOT HURTING YOU, Surely society would be better if we made all the guns go away right? You must be for that if you can justify denying freedom for some ethereal "greater good")) I think the world of S&P would look something between Road Warrior and The Devil's Rejects http://www.insidesocal.com/prepsports/road%20warrior.jpghttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/_UZUD5-c6U3U/S8QuVmV4UnI/AAAAAAAABDk/sskbEBEJHM4/s1600/The+Devil%27s+Rejects-%CE%A3%CE%AC%CF%81%CE%BA%CE%B1+%CE%BA%CE%B1%CE%B9+%CE%B1%CE%AF%CE%BC%CE%B1++(2005)DVDrip.jpg Hmmmmm Road Warrior and Devils rejects...... 2 Movies loaded with murder, rape and theft , all crimes with easily defined victims..... Again, Don't let any pre conceived notions cloud your rational thought ( i seem to have to use that line alot with you , Why is that I wonder?)
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Quoted: Quoted: I think driving somewhere that is not nessecary should be a first offense felony.... I DEFINATLY think hooking up a trailer without proper safty chains , or with the wrong sized ball should be a felony..... Shit Speeding should be a felony too , Running a light , failure to yield the list goes on forever..... Someone could be killed. We need to stop the carnage , regardless of wether or not anything HAPPENS , we need laws based on WHAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN. THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (polio vaccines dont involve the use of force of law against people for victimless crimes BTW, Piss poor analogy) Of course polio vaccine is a poor analogy. So are safety chains, wrong ball size, speeding, and FYR. OWI is only "victimless" until there's a victim...and there are LOTS of victims. Between my EMS and LE jobs, I've seen ~25 OWI fatalities. I've never seen one for trailers w/o safety chains. Extending your "victimless crime" logic, I can shoot my AR-15 wildly and negligently around the neighborhood, and you can't do squat until I hit one of your family members, because my reckless behavior hasn't created a victim yet. The mere fact that I've greatly increased the chance of killing your family is irrelevant until I actually do kill someone. I cannot agree with that. S&P have discussed this before, and I'm not going to change his mind, so I shall bow out. Have fun, everyone! Read my link..... Theres your victim ( actually a dozen people a year are killed by incorrectly hooked trailers).... Or do you only think things should be a felony if there are more the a certain number of bodies caused by an action? If it kills 12 people a year , no problem $400 fine for the killer, If it kills 30,000 we need 9 months in jail for anyone who does it regardless of whether there is anyone hurt .... again WHY THE HYPOCRISY?!?!?!?. Personally I think it is because MATD and MAIHT is harder to say then MADD, and you have all been sold their lies... While we are here care to chime in on making DWT ( driving while tired) a crime? Surely you know fatigued drives kill as many or more people then drunk drivers , Almost every OTHER fatal accident (that does not include intoxicated or tired drivers) involves speeding, Why don't you support felony speeding offenses the first or second time?)
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Well, I don't actually think plain-vanilla 1st offense should be a felony. But it should be a misdemeanor instead of a lousy traffic ticket. And every other state in the Union sees the sense in this. (Of course, 48 other states also have enough common sense to allow CCW...just showing how messed up we are.) Guess I was just pimping S&P, knowing he and I strongly disagree on the issue.
(BTW, polio vaccines are "for the children", so I'm against polio vaccines.) And every other state in the Union sees the sense in this. (Of course, 48 other states also have enough common sense to allow CCW...just showing how messed up we are.)
Maybe the NRA should get lessons from the Tavern League... C361 Stan |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: NO punishment for a crime with no victim. Same as everything else i believe... And you are hiding behine your apples and oranges statement , and ignoring that fact that driving tired and DUI are EXACTLY the same and not hooking chains or sppeding are similar enough to be grouped together, because you know answering my question truthfully will expose YOUR hypocrisy on the matter. It is a fair comparison....You are engaging in a behavior that increases your risk of harming someone, I have told you why it IS a fair comparison, Why don't you enlighten us why is it not .... Maybe baby steps are in order...... WHat is the root cause of Driving drunk being illegal ? You said " you are impared" .... but if you take it a step further isn't the real problem with being impared that you have a higher probability of causing an accident and harming someone? Would you argee with that statement? Wow... You are aware that there are tons of crimes with no direct, immediate victim. So you're cool with legalizing ALL drugs, cocaine, heroine, (Yes I am) (so you're happy with kids snorting cocaine on the playground? you don't see any problem with heroin in the classroom?) along with child porn, ( possession or manufacturing? Manufacturing ? I would say the child was the victim would'nt you? Possession? as fucked up as it is, no, this is the road to thought crime) (so you're cool supporting the child porn industry? just wanted to make sure...) fleeing the police (eluding/fleeing), ( I would say the officer was prevented from doing his job no? ) (wrong: the officer is almost never going to be considered a victim in this case, so technically, these 99% of the time go down as "victimless crimes"... so you're ok with people running from the police?) election fraud, ( now you are just getting ridiculous the person who the FRAUD was against is the victim) (again, wrong: the fraud is against the system... since this is a "victimless crime", you support legalizing it i suppose?) impersonating an office, (you have to be misleading someone to be impersonating, Standing in the middle of the woods screaming you are king george hurts no one, Pretending to be "from the government and here to help TO a person would make them a victim) (there are many, many circumstances where this could be classified as a victimless crime, and one obvious example that comes to mind would be someone representing themselves to be a LEO to a real LEO... LEO almost never get classified as victims with a few rare exceptions... so again, i guess you're fine with that) impersonating military, (see above) (so some guy walks around downtown dressed as a decorated marine colonel and you want to classify everyone who saw him as a victim? unless this guy used his false position to exploit something, this is usually going to be a victimless crime, ergo, i guess you're fine with it...) criminal gang activity, (like what? do tell, Personally I think you are just reaching again so you make make your piss poor analogy at the bottom of your post) (someone doesn't know his criminal code, eh? Wis. Stat. 941.38 along with penalty enhancers) gambling, ( should be legal) (fair enough) bribery, (you have to be bribing someone, Meaning you have to want something from them that you are not entitled to , and someone else is, I would think that someone else would be a victim being deprived of whatever it is was rightfully theirs , but given to you ) (no, this would be a public health sort of crime if the target took the money. hard to call someone a victim when they take the money, right? so bribery, where the bribery takes place, is classified as a victimless crime... so i guess you're ok with that?) mail fraud, ( FRAUD, needs a victim.... You really need to THINK about what you are saying and stop knee jerk posting ) (again, you're 100% wrong. people lie about things to the post office on pieces of mail and bam: mail fraud... once more, you need to think before you just flame away) virtually all DNR citations (poaching, shining, fishing without a license, etc), (You have no permission to hunt the kings deer", now where have I heard that before?) (as long as you're ok with any bubba shooting deer on another person's back patio, ok... i wouldn't want someone hunting on my property without my permission, nor do i want all the deer hunted to extinction, or companies dumping chemical waste into our rivers and killing all the fish and plant life... but i guess you are cool with that since most of the time there would not be a legal victim...) operating after revocation, (Yeah and ? wheres the victim again?) (exactly: so you don't think we should need drivers licenses to be able to drive. anyone should be able to drive no matter what, right?) all crimes against animals, (like putting down your sick dog in Oklahoma , Which is a felony by the way) (or going buying dogs from a store and skinning them alive, or kicking them to death, or any number of other cruel treatments or unnecessary deaths... as in the Tessmer case pending in Waukesha now... but if you're cool with people torturing animals to death, then ok... (we're not talking mercy killings here, this is something way beyond that)) sexually violent person commitments ( just wait till its "crazy gun owner commitments" and see what you think of it, If they are too dangerous to be out of prison , change the law so they are not out of prison, This is a terribly dangerous end run around the constitution and i am WHOLEHEARTEDLY AGAINST IT) (while i DO agree with you actually, scary to say out loud, that chapter 980 commitments are a scary proposition for anyone with a sense of liberty and freedom, it also does accomplish a fundamentally very important purpose. many/most of these defendants are in their 50s, 60s, 70s and have a long history of sexual assault/rape victims, often children, and have shown they will reoffend after they get out. ergo, and after thorough psych evals to confirm their status as a sexually violent person, ch. 980 is initiated as they end their prison time to throw them behind bars again...) the list goes on, and on. ( is the rest of the list made up bullshit too?) (well, maybe they're bullshit to someone with a screwed up view of how the law functions. another example would be obstructing/resisting an officer, which i guess you're fine with since again: officers will almost never be classified as a victim (this is different from battery to a peace officer). i guess you're also cool with felon in possession of a firearm... i suppose you're also a card carrying member of NAMBLA since they contend these "crimes" are victimless since the child consents... penalty enhancers for the commission of certain crimes within 1,000 feet of a school or park... i can go on ticking off these "Victimless crimes" that you must be fine with.) You really think it would be a good idea to do all that along with other decriminalizing other crimes? You don't think there would be ANY adverse affects on society? ( The cost of living in a free society is putting up with other people doing shit you don't like AS LONG AS THEY ARE NOT HURTING YOU, Surely society would be better if we made all the guns go away right? You must be for that if you can justify denying freedom for some ethereal "greater good")) (there are important laws and rights that we ALL must sacrifice to protect the general health and welfare of the civil society. this is clearly recognized, by most people i suppose, in the need to criminalize hard drugs, protection children from sexual predators, deter bribery, high speed police pursuits, criminal gang activity... etc. i am mostly fine with the laws we have because i recognize the role they serve to better society. some laws i think are too strict, such as firearm laws, whereas other laws i think are too lax, such as drunk driving laws. but taken as a whole, i think we are reasonably close. and the "Greater good" is not an ethereal concept but a tangible reality. the tricky part is that the libs often try to attribute things to the "greater good" that are simply not cost effective in what they trade off.) I think the world of S&P would look something between Road Warrior and The Devil's Rejects http://www.insidesocal.com/prepsports/road%20warrior.jpghttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/_UZUD5-c6U3U/S8QuVmV4UnI/AAAAAAAABDk/sskbEBEJHM4/s1600/The+Devil%27s+Rejects-%CE%A3%CE%AC%CF%81%CE%BA%CE%B1+%CE%BA%CE%B1%CE%B9+%CE%B1%CE%AF%CE%BC%CE%B1++(2005)DVDrip.jpg Hmmmmm Road Warrior and Devils rejects...... 2 Movies loaded with murder, rape and theft , all crimes with easily defined victims..... (and hardcore drug use, along with numerous other examples from the movies) Again, Don't let any pre conceived notions cloud your rational thought ( i seem to have to use that line alot with you , Why is that I wonder?) (what pre-conceived notions? id venture to say that ive had far more contact with the users and abusers of narcotics, rape offenders and victims, murderers and their victim's families, etc, than yourself.) I think you need to go to some CLEs to keep that law degree fresh, because you are clearly out of your league on these legal points in this thread... also: and i know that this won't work and i'll get flamed for asking, but you CAN reply to these posts and points in a less hostile way so that we can accomplish more substantively rather than getting wrapped up in the vitriol. there's no need for ad hominem attacks, and you made several.
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So Spray and pray.. I'm curious.... if you were king for a day... What should WI's DUI laws look Like? They would'nt Wow lets make you king! Then maybe all the drunken retards will get on a bike with no helmet and be eliminated from the gene pool! My brother was whacked (while on his bike) by some dumb shit that thought he was ok to drive after drinking. He also had his 3 kids in the car and never stopped! (his kids turned him in) |
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So Spray and pray.. I'm curious.... if you were king for a day... What should WI's DUI laws look Like? They would'nt Wow lets make you king! Then maybe all the drunken retards will get on a bike with no helmet and be eliminated from the gene pool! My brother was whacked (while on his bike) by some dumb shit that thought he was ok to drive after drinking. He also had his 3 kids in the car and never stopped! (his kids turned him in) Impossible... DUI is illegal ... |
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Oh Spray... see my responses in blue. The bottom line is that you clearly do not know what you are talking about when it comes to identifying a legal victim of a crime. All of the crimes I listed above, unless in unusual circumstances, typically/often have no 'legal' victim.
[/div][div]I think you need to go to some CLEs to keep that law degree fresh, because you are clearly out of your league on these legal points in this thread...
[/div][div]also: and i know that this won't work and i'll get flamed for asking, but you CAN reply to these posts and points in a less hostile way so that we can accomplish more substantively rather than getting wrapped up in the vitriol. there's no need for ad hominem attacks, and you made several. Coming from the guy that accuses me of being in NAMBLA cause I disagree with him , and letting his personal opinon of me interfere with the most BASIC reading comprehension in the insurance thread .... Too funny. You should take your own advise.... I don't recall trying to associate you with anyone based on your opinion, Feel free to prove me wrong though No way can i respond to your post from this computer , but rest assured, I will when I get home. |
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So Spray and pray.. I'm curious.... if you were king for a day... What should WI's DUI laws look Like? They would'nt I guess I don't understand... So are you advocating that WI should not have any laws regarding drinking and driving?? I do not really know you stand on this. |
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So Spray and pray.. I'm curious.... if you were king for a day... What should WI's DUI laws look Like? They would'nt I guess I don't understand... So are you advocating that WI should not have any laws regarding drinking and driving?? I do not really know you stand on this. You are corrent.... Modifiers for having an accident while drinking and driving , sure ...... But unless you can show me a victim of someone driving home drunk , Then I can't support throwing them in jail..... Sounds like a great idea , but sets too much bad precident. Freedom is sold, an inch at a time in the interest of some socialist bullshit feeling of "greater good" How you YOU feel on Felony Failure to properly hook a trailer, Felony driving tired or Second offence felony speeding? |
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Quoted: Oh Spray... see my responses in blue. The bottom line is that you clearly do not know what you are talking about when it comes to identifying a legal victim of a crime. All of the crimes I listed above, unless in unusual circumstances, typically/often have no 'legal' victim. [/div][div]I think you need to go to some CLEs to keep that law degree fresh, because you are clearly out of your league on these legal points in this thread... [/div][div]also: and i know that this won't work and i'll get flamed for asking, but you CAN reply to these posts and points in a less hostile way so that we can accomplish more substantively rather than getting wrapped up in the vitriol. there's no need for ad hominem attacks, and you made several. Coming from the guy that accuses me of being in NAMBLA cause I disagree with him , and letting his personal opinon of me interfere with the most BASIC reading comprehension in the insurance thread .... Too funny. You should take your own advise.... I don't recall trying to associate you with anyone based on your opinion, Feel free to prove me wrong though No way can i respond to your post from this computer , but rest assured, I will when I get home. 1. I didn't accuse you of anything... I clearly joked that "i suppose..." you are also a card carrying member of NAMBLA since they consider it a "victimless crime." [div] [/div] [div]2. Your "basic reading" was poor english because it was 100% incorrect grammar. If you have a problem with that, take it up with the english language, not me. [div] Looking forward to the response! Seriously though Spray, I want to be able to shake your hand and share a laugh when I meet you one of these days. So let's just have fun with the discussion!  [/div][div] edit: the post came through with all kinds of [div] html code crap... and it continues to after two edits, so if it does this again after reloading my browser I'm giving up.[/div][/div] |
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clearly the guy drives around drunk on his harley with no helmet..(maybe his bandanna will save him) because we all know if you wear a helmet nobody can see how cool you are.....he proly smokes a carton everyday...
revs his harley by my house at 2 in the morning driving home from the bar... |
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clearly the guy drives around drunk on his harley with no helmet..(maybe his bandanna will save him) because we all know if you wear a helmet nobody can see how cool you are.....he proly smokes a carton everyday... revs his harley by my house at 2 in the morning driving home from the bar... And clearly as a gun owner you are a babykilling basement dweller prone to fly off the handle that should be institutionalised...... Did you have anything to add to the discussion BESIDES personal attacks and suppositions ? Maybe a logical discussion as to why you believe I am wrong? Did'nt think so, appearently logical discussion about a difference of opinion is beyond a backwoods redneck gun owner like yourself. You probably don't even have any teeth.........
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Oh Spray... see my responses in blue. The bottom line is that you clearly do not know what you are talking about when it comes to identifying a legal victim of a crime. All of the crimes I listed above, unless in unusual circumstances, typically/often have no 'legal' victim.
[/div][div]I think you need to go to some CLEs to keep that law degree fresh, because you are clearly out of your league on these legal points in this thread...
[/div][div]also: and i know that this won't work and i'll get flamed for asking, but you CAN reply to these posts and points in a less hostile way so that we can accomplish more substantively rather than getting wrapped up in the vitriol. there's no need for ad hominem attacks, and you made several. Coming from the guy that accuses me of being in NAMBLA cause I disagree with him , and letting his personal opinon of me interfere with the most BASIC reading comprehension in the insurance thread .... Too funny. You should take your own advise.... I don't recall trying to associate you with anyone based on your opinion, Feel free to prove me wrong though No way can i respond to your post from this computer , but rest assured, I will when I get home. 1. I didn't accuse you of anything... I clearly joked that "i suppose..." you are also a card carrying member of NAMBLA since they consider it a "victimless crime." [div] [/div][div]2. Your "basic reading" was poor english because it was 100% incorrect grammar. If you have a problem with that, take it up with the english language, not me.[div] Looking forward to the response! Seriously though Spray, I want to be able to shake your hand and share a laugh when I meet you one of these days. So let's just have fun with the discussion! [/div][div]
edit: the post came through with all kinds of [div] html code crap... and it continues to after two edits, so if it does this again after reloading my browser I'm giving up.[/div][/div] "i suppose you're also a card carrying member of NAMBLA " is not a joke, It is an accusation. Especially without ssome sort of smiley to indicate you are joking , Stop backpedaling and admit you meant what you said, Then were forced to backpedal when you accused me of attacks. As for you using your preconcieved notion of me to misread What I wrote , Shall I start a poll to see what ther hive thinks I meant when I wrote " mine went up over $100" in the context of the discussion ? Care to wager on the outcome? I know I would. And unlike some people here, I have no problem with you personally due to a difference of opinion, and would have no problem shaking your hand and laughing (althouth not about lost freedoms, sorry) "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. " |
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clearly the guy drives around drunk on his harley with no helmet..(maybe his bandanna will save him) because we all know if you wear a helmet nobody can see how cool you are.....he proly smokes a carton everyday... revs his harley by my house at 2 in the morning driving home from the bar... And clearly as a gun owner you are a babykilling basement dweller prone to fly off the handle that should be institutionalised...... Did you have anything to add to the discussion BESIDES personal attacks and suppositions ? Maybe a logical discussion as to why you believe I am wrong? Did'nt think so, appearently logical discussion about a difference of opinion is beyond a backwoods redneck gun owner like yourself. You probably don't even have any teeth......... WOW your a badass |
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clearly the guy drives around drunk on his harley with no helmet..(maybe his bandanna will save him) because we all know if you wear a helmet nobody can see how cool you are.....he proly smokes a carton everyday... revs his harley by my house at 2 in the morning driving home from the bar... And clearly as a gun owner you are a babykilling basement dweller prone to fly off the handle that should be institutionalised...... Did you have anything to add to the discussion BESIDES personal attacks and suppositions ? Maybe a logical discussion as to why you believe I am wrong? Did'nt think so, appearently logical discussion about a difference of opinion is beyond a backwoods redneck gun owner like yourself. You probably don't even have any teeth......... WOW your a badass Thanks for reaffirming my point. |
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clearly the guy drives around drunk on his harley with no helmet..(maybe his bandanna will save him) because we all know if you wear a helmet nobody can see how cool you are.....he proly smokes a carton everyday... revs his harley by my house at 2 in the morning driving home from the bar... And clearly as a gun owner you are a babykilling basement dweller prone to fly off the handle that should be institutionalised...... Did you have anything to add to the discussion BESIDES personal attacks and suppositions ? Maybe a logical discussion as to why you believe I am wrong? Did'nt think so, appearently logical discussion about a difference of opinion is beyond a backwoods redneck gun owner like yourself. You probably don't even have any teeth......... WOW your a badass Thanks for reaffirming my point. did i not strike the nail on the head with my description of you? lol i bet i did |
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clearly the guy drives around drunk on his harley with no helmet..(maybe his bandanna will save him) because we all know if you wear a helmet nobody can see how cool you are.....he proly smokes a carton everyday... revs his harley by my house at 2 in the morning driving home from the bar... And clearly as a gun owner you are a babykilling basement dweller prone to fly off the handle that should be institutionalised...... Did you have anything to add to the discussion BESIDES personal attacks and suppositions ? Maybe a logical discussion as to why you believe I am wrong? Did'nt think so, appearently logical discussion about a difference of opinion is beyond a backwoods redneck gun owner like yourself. You probably don't even have any teeth......... WOW your a badass Thanks for reaffirming my point. did i not strike the nail on the head with my description of you? lol i bet i did I'm a lover not a fighter..... So no , You missed, I smoke maybe 2 cigars a year, I never ride if I have been drinking more then 1 beer an hour, And when I do have my bike out past 9pm I lay off the throttle and if at all possible stay out of residential neighborhoods unless i have a destination there , I coast into and out of my garage with the engine off until i get to the main road .... You are 25% right though, I don't like to wear a helmet Strains the neck and wind noise is terrible .... However you only get half credit on that one as the only thing I expect the bandana to save me from is bugs on my forehead and a sunburn on my tender scalp..... So 12.5% right .... You should work for the government with that kind of accuracy |