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Posted: 1/20/2006 1:56:47 PM EDT
No surprise here!

Jeff

FRIDAY, Jan. 20, 2006, 4:47 p.m.
Doyle to veto concealed weapons bill tonight

Madison - Gov. Jim Doyle tonight will veto a bill that would allow people to carry concealed weapons, saying it would make the state more dangerous.

“The bill does not create a single job, help a single Wisconsin citizen afford health care, or improve schools for a single Wisconsin child,” Doyle said in a statement. “The Legislature should spend more time trying to get jobs into our communities instead of more guns.”

Doyle was traveling around the state today. Aide Anne Lupardus said he would veto the bill at the governor’s mansion when he returns this evening.

Doyle has long promised to veto the bill, and Republicans who control the Legislature have pledged to override the governor. That requires a two-thirds vote of both houses.

The bill, SB 403, passed the Senate by that margin, while the Assembly passed the bill 64-32 — two votes shy of the 66 needed for an override. Republicans have said they expect to have the votes because one member, Mary Williams of Medford, was absent and one seat was vacant.

The vacant seat has since been filled by Rep. Scott Newcomer (R-Delafield), a supporter of the bill.
But two Assembly Democrats who voted for the bill originally - John Steinbrink of Pleasant Prairie and Terry Van Akkern of Sheboygan - have not said how they will vote on an override. They did not return calls today.

The bill would allow people 21 and over to carry a concealed weapon after passing a course.

-By Patrick Marley
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 2:32:49 PM EDT
So we could have the override vote on Tuesday?
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 2:42:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2006 2:42:20 PM EDT by NewbHunter]
What a complete idiot. I knew he'd veto it, but his reasoning is just asinine. I can't wait to get that moron out of office.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 3:04:37 PM EDT
So if the over ride goes through on Tuesday....how long would it take before the state would issue permits?

Chris
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 3:22:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2006 3:22:51 PM EDT by FMD]

Originally Posted By UZI4you:
So if the over ride goes through on Tuesday....how long would it take before the state would issue permits?

Chris



60 Days...theoretically.

In reality, it will be sometime late summer/fall...if everything goes well.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 3:41:27 PM EDT
I'm rather surprised he's vetoing it so soon. I figured it would be next Thursday so he could get his photo-op goons together for a dog and pony media blitz. Maybe he's not having as much success at strong-arming as he did last time.

If he does lose this battle, he may be facing the truth, he’s a lame duck 1 term Governor
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 4:24:25 PM EDT
What an assbag. Damn, I can't even stand to see his picture in the paper. What makes Wisconsin so much different than the other 46 states that have concealed carry? Fuck, I can't wait until I get to vote against him! I knew for a fact that he was going to veto this bill, but it still makes me stomping mad!!!
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 4:35:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MGLouie:
I'm rather surprised he's vetoing it so soon. I figured it would be next Thursday so he could get his photo-op goons together for a dog and pony media blitz. Maybe he's not having as much success at strong-arming as he did last time.

If he does lose this battle, he may be facing the truth, he’s a lame duck 1 term Governor



Probably overriding so soon because he knows we don't have votes for an override. If he needed more time it was probably because he need more time to do some political arm twisting. If you look at the last state senate election in Kenosha county the Dem. party withheld money from Sen. Wirches re-election because he voted for the previous PPA override. It wasn't until the last two weeks of the campaign when it was obvious that Wirch's seat was in trouble did the teachers union bail him out. Preibous was up 12 points up until that point. So by using that as an example it’s pretty clear to the elected officials that going against the governor can be certain death politically.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 5:29:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RavenJeff:
“The bill does not create a single job, help a single Wisconsin citizen afford health care, or improve schools for a single Wisconsin child,” Doyle said in a statement. “The Legislature should spend more time trying to get jobs into our communities instead of more guns.”



Paraphrase:
"I am a socialist, and this legislation does nothing to advance my socialist agenda."

Sorry folks, but I have matriculated into being PPA-indifferent.
If we get it, I'll be happy because it will translate directly into more good-guys having teeth.
If we don't get it, it strengthens the legislature's argument to the state supreme court that, "We did all we could to comply with your directive to bring a permit system online. You'll have to take matters into your own hands."

The Wisconsin supreme court shirked it's duty when they told the legislature to get a permit system up and running. They clearly saw that the law was in conflict with the state constitution, and HAD A SWORN DUTY to throw out the law and uphold the constitution. Instead, they played a political game.
"We'll ignore our duty, just this once, so that you can decrement your policy into marginal constitutional compliance."
When they said, "Get a permit system in place," what they were saying is, "That is THE ONLY way that the law can be seen to have a contorted/convoluted constitutional compliance. Do it or else."
Having made the valiant effort with a full run-up of political jockeying, TWICE, the court has little choice but to uphold the constitution or look malfeasant and ineffectual.

If the PPA does not become law, we have a TREMENDOUS chance of forcing the court to declare Vermont carry Constitutional Carry.
The chance is SO GOOD, that the attorney general and state prosecutors are collectively blinking, and declining to prosecute any CCW that looks quazy-legitimate.

I think PPA is a mistake. The liberty minded part of me hopes it doesn't happen.
The pro-PPA party line is that we'll get what we can now, and then gut the bill little-by-little later.
But it will always be a permit .... you will always have to submit a formal request for permission from the state ........... to exercise the priviledge that the state has bestowed upon you.

Once again:
It is a short sighted err to accept a Right as a priviledge and declare it a victory.

Link Posted: 1/21/2006 8:24:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Throttle-Junkie:
Sorry folks, but I have matriculated into being PPA-indifferent.



Welcome to the dark side.

+1 to everything else TJ said.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 8:52:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FMD:

Originally Posted By Throttle-Junkie:
Sorry folks, but I have matriculated into being PPA-indifferent.



Welcome to the dark side.

+1 to everything else TJ said.



yup

Link Posted: 1/21/2006 1:15:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FMD:

Originally Posted By UZI4you:
So if the over ride goes through on Tuesday....how long would it take before the state would issue permits?

Chris



60 Days...theoretically.

In reality, it will be sometime late summer/fall...if everything goes well.




In reality, possibly more than a year from now. Take it from a MO resident who watched the fight for CCW. If you all have a cesspool like we have St. Louis, they might very well try to hold it up. Heck, STL just recently started issuing, about two years after the law was passed and a year after the courts made up their minds everything was peachy.


I wish you all luck, I will be graduating this May and will only be considering Wisconsin for a job if y'all get CCW. So far I have about 11 states I'd be willing to relocate to, it would be nice if I could add a 12th.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 2:16:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FMD:

Originally Posted By Throttle-Junkie:
Sorry folks, but I have matriculated into being PPA-indifferent.



Welcome to the dark side.

+1 to everything else TJ said.



I didn't think it was all that dark over here.

Now, am I Darth Vader? Or just a lowly stormtrooper?
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 3:36:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/21/2006 3:38:12 PM EDT by FMD]
Sorry TJ, I been banging this drum a loooooong time (I seem to remember you chiding my criticism of WCCA awhile back).

You can be Darth, just as long as I'm the Emperor.

ETA: Spudgnr, I'm aware of the long fights in MO, OH, and MN. I was giving the best case scenario.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 6:34:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FMD:
(I seem to remember you chiding my criticism of WCCA awhile back).



Whether you intended it or not, what I perceived was a slander of money grubbing.
I took offense at the time because myself, and everyone else that I had worked with for PPA the first time around had been operating at a loss and volunteering for more.

I also took the position that, "If you can't be a supporter, atleast don't be a detractor."
I've decided not to apply my efforts and funds to the PPA-push this time around.
You and I agree that the fight strategy is mis-applied; sometimes due to shortsighted naivity, and sometimes due to political bought-and-paid-for dirty dealing.

I don't level attacks against the people who are (Albeit loosely) in my camp.
THIS is what I chided you for.
You wanna cast you ballot elsewhere ..... fine, there are valid reasons to do so ....... don't torch the teepees on your way out.


At any rate, ......
It's all water under the bridge now.
You were understandably frustrated with tangible mismanagement.
The organizations that were supposed to be steadfastly and uncompromisingly pro-gun-rights, got entangled in political floundering.

IIRC, it revolved around Gary Sherman.
Instead of focusing on gaining the needed seats for a succesful override, they focused on Gary Sherman.
They wanted to set the example.
There was gonna be hell to pay for crossing them ........

Only they didn't have a viable alternative, threw supporter's money into an abyss, and blinked on an opportunity ...... for what? Political pride?
So people would know not to fuck with them?
Do I get my colors now?
You're supposed to stay focused on my wife getting to carry a pistol, so she doesn't get assaulted.
Fuck the political reprisals ..... that's not what I paid/worked for.

We're more in agreement than in disagreement.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 6:15:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/22/2006 6:16:08 AM EDT by FMD]
[Emperor to Anakin]
I can feel your anger. It gives you focus... makes you stronger.
[/Emperor ot Anakin]



IM sent.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 9:17:28 AM EDT
I like the fact that many criminal openly admit that they have no fear of "holding somebody up" due tot he fact that there is a 99% chance they won't have a gun.

I also like all the nutjobs that voted Doyle into office and now say things against him. (Life my Father). What did you think was going to happen?

I can only pray for good votes on Tuesday.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 2:41:29 PM EDT

NRA-ILA Grassroots Alert Vol. 13, No. 3 01/20/06

WISCONSIN "PERSONAL PROTECTION ACT" UPDATE

The State Senate gave final approval to the 2005 Personal Protection Act (PPA) and is sending the bill to Governor Jim Doyle (D) for his promised veto. It will be his second veto of the PPA in as many years. He is committed to his distrust of law-abiding Wisconsinites and to keeping the state as one of only four that strictly prohibit trained, licensed citizens who pass a criminal background check from carrying concealed firearms for self-defense.

Once again, there are a sufficient number of supporters in the Senate and Assembly to override the veto, but only if past supporters stay steadfast in their support of the bill. In 2004, the Senate easily overrode the veto, but the Governor was able to convince a fellow Democrat in the Assembly and a one-time supporter of the PPA to change his vote for partisan political reasons, thus killing it by a single vote.

This time around, the Governor and other opponents are once again hard at work trying to find a Democrat who will play politics with Wisconsinites' personal safety by changing his vote. All six Assembly democrats who voted for the bill in December must stay steadfast in support of the bill in order for the override to be successful. Four of the six have publicly committed to voting in support of overriding the Governor's veto. Clearly, the two who have not are in the Governor's sights.

Representative John Steinbrink (D-65), from Pleasant Prairie, has voted in favor of the PPA four of four times since 2002, including the veto override in 2004. Now, he reports that he is considering reversing his long-time support in order to sustain the Governor's veto. Representative Steinbrink has been a consistent supporter of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, specifically for self-defense.

Representative Terry Van Akkeren (D-26), from Sheboygan, has voted for the PPA all three times that it has come before him since 2003. Like Representative Steinbrink, he is also considering a change of position on the very piece of legislation that he voted to support only a month ago.

Of all things, the right to self-defense should trump partisan political games. Please contact these two representatives and ask them to remain consistent in their support of Wisconsinites' right to protect themselves and their loved ones from violence by voting to override the Governor's veto of the PPA, as they both did in 2004.

You can reach Representative Steinbrink by phone at (888) 534-0065, or by e-mail at rep.steinbrink@legis.state.wi.us.

You can reach Representative Van Akkeren by phone at (888) 529-0026, or by e-mail at rep.vanakkeren@legis.state.wi.us.

The FBI reports that over 24,000 Wisconsinites have been the victims of violent crime--murder, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault--since the last failed override in 2004. These citizens deserve the opportunity to defend themselves. PLEASE ACT NOW!

Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:22:40 PM EDT
Sorry, I just love stupid quotes....

Doyle, a Democrat, said the concealed carry bill would just put more guns on the street. - Duh.

Can we just overide the veto now and be done with it? I'm kinda surprised he vetoed it. It might of made sense for him to let it pass and claim Pontius Pilate of the whole thing and declare it was the will of the people. He would have lost less face than when they overide him IMO.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:28:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BigGeorgeC:
Sorry, I just love stupid quotes....

Doyle, a Democrat, said the concealed carry bill would just put more guns on the street. - Duh.

Can we just overide the veto now and be done with it? I'm kinda surprised he vetoed it. It might of made sense for him to let it pass and claim Pontius Pilate of the whole thing and declare it was the will of the people. He would have lost less face than when they overide him IMO.



I think you give them to much credit by thinking they will override it.
Just being realistic here.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 12:33:00 PM EDT
I have absolutely no faith in our legislators on this one. I need to move back to New Hampshire, or better yet, Vermont. What the hell is going on here in Wisconsin? Do our legislators think that it is just a fluke that the 46 states that have concealed carry are like the "wild West"? I am weary of this shit coming up like bad beef every year. We shouldn't have to beg for our Constitutional rights.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 1:04:28 PM EDT
Fuck it, carry anyway.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 1:10:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By inferno715:
Fuck it, carry anyway.



Seriously considering it.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 3:19:04 PM EDT
I'm not going to get all excited about this being overridden.My gut says the dems will flip flop again!
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 4:16:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GlockFace:
I'm not going to get all excited about this being overridden.My gut says the dems will flip flop again!




I Agree
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 10:38:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dalesimpson:

Originally Posted By inferno715:
Fuck it, carry anyway.



Seriously considering it.



I've uh, gave it some thought.... Don Hume IWB ahem, looks like it would work great with an XD9.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:44:01 AM EDT
Nuclear option anyone??? Fuckit let's pretend we are Ohio.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 6:42:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By inferno715:

Originally Posted By dalesimpson:

Originally Posted By inferno715:
Fuck it, carry anyway.



Seriously considering it.



I've uh, gave it some thought.... Don Hume IWB ahem, looks like it would work great with an XD9.



So then it would work with my current XD40 and my future XD45ACP. Good...
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 6:58:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2006 7:09:38 AM EDT by photoman]

Originally Posted By sprayandpray:
Nuclear option anyone??? Fuckit let's pretend we are Ohio.



That was discussed, proposals were put together, and a current group involved in the CCW fight said they were going to do it. Then they didn't.

The new nuclear option is everyone starting to CCW and saying fuck you to the legislature and just doing it. If you live in Milwaukee or Madison it's yer only option as open carry for your "security and defense" will get you arrested no matter what as it is department policy with those cities PDs.


ETA: I don't see anything on todays Senate or Assembly schedules regarding the PPA ......
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 3:16:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By photoman:

Originally Posted By sprayandpray:
Nuclear option anyone??? Fuckit let's pretend we are Ohio.



That was discussed, proposals were put together, and a current group involved in the CCW fight said they were going to do it. Then they didn't.

The new nuclear option is everyone starting to CCW and saying fuck you to the legislature and just doing it. If you live in Milwaukee or Madison it's yer only option as open carry for your "security and defense" will get you arrested no matter what as it is department policy with those cities PDs.


ETA: I don't see anything on todays Senate or Assembly schedules regarding the PPA ......




I know,I remember , fuckem , let's put it together ourself's, I grow weary of the games and tired of the fact that 30 states allow me to legally excercise my rights , but the asshats in Madison won't. So open carry lunch on the green anyone , not even a protest , let's just do lunch , I don't know , Opening the door to idea's , .................
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 3:18:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sprayandpray:
So open carry lunch on the green anyone , not even a protest , let's just do lunch , I don't know , Opening the door to idea's , .................



Get a lawyer willing to take the DC charge to the SC pro bono, and we'll talk.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 5:11:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FMD:

Originally Posted By sprayandpray:
So open carry lunch on the green anyone , not even a protest , let's just do lunch , I don't know , Opening the door to idea's , .................



Get a lawyer willing to take the DC charge to the SC pro bono, and we'll talk.



Yup thats about it. If I had the cash to get a lawyer for just this, I'd have done it long ago. As is I just give them the finger by carrying.
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