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Posted: 12/17/2005 9:51:50 AM EDT
The 5 or so years I lived in Madison were some of the most trying times in my life, THANK GOD I WOKE UP and moved out!



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Reject Hidden Gun Law, Promote Trusting Society Instead
The Capital Times :: EDITORIAL :: 9A
Thursday, December 8, 2005
Robert Chapman Middleton

Dear Editor: When judged by the number of gun deaths, America is the most violent of all industrialized nations. When we wonder how we have become such a violent, aggressive society, we have only to look at the repeated modeling of aggression as a solution to problems as shown over and over in our movies, tv programs, video games, media and even songs. Repeatedly, scientific studies show that this modeling of aggression increases aggressive behavior tendencies in people.

In view of the actual violence and modeling of violence in our society, one can only have compassion for people who want to carry a concealed gun. They see a dangerous world of violent, armed people and carrying a concealed gun as the solution to their fear. This fear appears so strong that concealed weapon carriers want their names concealed as well.

A healthy community depends on trusting that most citizens live in peace, despite the fact that there are some criminals. If ordinary citizens are allowed to carry a concealed weapon, this trust will be challenged as we wonder whether those carrying are in control of their emotions on any day. Road rage, job stress and alcohol consumption can result in powerful emotions that severely impair otherwise good judgment.

A healthy society must encourage positive, pro-social trust in each other and especially in our law enforcement officers, who are trained in when and how to use lethal force. Even law enforcement officers are questioning the "always armed" role as too many officers carrying weapons off duty have been killed or wounded. They know that tragedies are likely to occur, even with a lot of training.

Please urge the governor to veto concealed weapon legislation and the further generation of fear in our society. Let us trust each other, and our law enforcement officers. Let this choice to trust each other manage our fears, and promote psychological health for ourselves, our children and our communities.
>===========================<
Concealed Guns In Wisconsin?
Wisconsin State Journal :: SPECTRUM :: F1
Thursday, December 15, 2005
"My hunch is that most people will never have a reason to use a gun, and that the concealed carry bill is simply a ploy by the GOP. But if it turns out that there are loads of actual threats out there, I want to know so I can get a gun myself."

-- demosthenes

"I've been fortunate enough to live in decent neighborhoods and areas where I don't have to worry about getting murdered or mugged, but just because that's my situation doesn't mean I want to limit anyone else's ability to protect themselves with a firearm. Concealed carry is already legal in a lot of states, yet you don't hear about insane shootouts or any increase in murders and robberies. The people who murder other people and rob places already have guns and don't care what the law says anyway."

-- Cash68

"There is a place for a concealed-carry law. Good people will benefit from it. Will a few abuse it? Yes. That is true of all laws and all rules."

-- Perry

"As a former law enforcement officer, I am concerned for the safety of my former colleagues, family, and other citizens of this state. And just imagining random numbers of people carrying concealed firearms around, legally or not, is plain spooky. It's better not to risk it, because many times not having a weapon can do far more to save your life and that of others than being armed could ever do."

-- Cowboy99540

"I know three women who had attempts on their lives by total strangers right here in Madison. None had guns and two survived because of their quick wits. But one was killed. Still, I would never have a gun in my house because I have kids and I am concerned it would be used against me. At home, my best line of defense is an alarm system, a dog and telephones kept nearby. Away from home, I do my best to stay out of situations where I could find myself in danger."

-- Donna

"Guns are a tool that anyone with the proper training should be allowed to possess. I don't care about concealed carry so much. We always carried them right out in the open as we preferred to use them as a deterrent to crime rather than a last-minute life-saving effort."

-- GremlinGal

"It's legal to OWN a gun now, so wouldn't most people who would be inclined to own a gun already own one? And wouldn't those folks generally know the ins and outs of responsible ownership? I keep hearing liberals say more cops are going to get killed, but who would be killing the cops? Would it be people who would otherwise abide by the law?"

-- reaganknight

"Why is it that each side of this debate has to have all or nothing? The gun supporters want full rights to have whatever kind of gun you want with no waiting period and tons of ammunition. The other side wants no guns at all. Why not just make it hard for people to get guns, and impossible for people that shouldn't have guns? "

-- madisonman
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Stop Concealed Gun Nonsense

Wisconsin State Journal :: OPINION :: A8
Thursday, December 1, 2005
I am not against hunting nor am I against target shooting. But I am certainly against concealed weapons and putting thousands of more guns in our society.

It took years to get law and order in the early West because a lot of people carried guns every day. The pioneers carried guns for a good reason at that time, but a lot of innocent people were killed by those guns.

All too often we hear of a child killed by a gun that is supposed to be locked. No matter who is responsible to lock the gun, the dead child is still dead. Many domestic arguments result in a dead spouse or child, when if a gun were not present, the dead person probably would still be alive.

With more guns available at all times, you can expect more people to be killed in the crossfire situation that would not happen if neither of the guns were available at that time or place. Angry people and drunken people will often shoot innocent people. They will not be angry or drunk when they apply for a permit, and they will easily get their permit to carry, and they will be dangerous to all innocent people every day after.

I will be required to post a sign to keep guns off my property. Also, I'll be required to tell each individual verbally not to carry a gun at my place, even the priest or minister, friends, relatives, the delivery person, salespersons, etc. (Sounds like a built-in loophole for trial lawyers.)

We will soon be as lawless as the Middle East countries. I certainly will not feel any safer. Please stop this nonsense.

-- Lee E. Pelton, Belmont
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If Guns Concealed, Keep Bullets Visible
The Capital Times :: EDITORIAL :: 11A
Saturday, November 26, 2005
Frank Ryan Middleton

Dear Editor: I don't know about others, but I'm tired of the endless debate on legalizing concealed weapons in Wisconsin.

So, in all humility, I offer a compromise.

Legalize the damn hidden guns, but outlaw the carrying of concealed bullets. Bullets would have to be in full view atop one's ears.

No need to thank me.
>===========================<
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 3:09:36 PM EDT
CTF, where did that discussion come from? Got a link for us?
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 3:52:02 PM EDT
some very intresting views there. too bad it has to come to this type of debate when dealing with a constitutional right not a privealge like they make it out to be
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 7:26:11 PM EDT
Someone needs to post the SCOTUS ruling about the PD not being responsible for stopping the crime before it occurs.

I've worked in the ghetto too long to believe this happy go lucky limousine liberal "trust your fellow man" BS. I'd encourage these idiots to wake the F up, but they've eaten too much of the lotus blossom for me to even rouse them.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 9:34:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FMD:
CTF, where did that discussion come from? Got a link for us?



Yes, I got a link... all of these quites were pulled from WSJ and CapTimes websites. There were MANY, MANY, MANNNNYYYY MOOORRRREEE anti-Concealed Carry entries!!!

I love the one from the pussy that just wants everybody to get along, to be peaceful, to basically make kissy-face!!!

WFT??!!!!

The author is a FUKIN' PUSSY!!! Lets see how much pussy-assed kissy-faced emotions he feels when some crack-head gangsta puts a gat next to his skull!!!!!

Not only will he sh!t his pants, he will become a VICTIM rather than a VICTOR!!!

<silly rabbit... tricks are for kids...>

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