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10/20/2004 12:31:21 AM EDT
Ok, i know that we still haven't cleaned up from last weekend, but should we start planning the next DE class?

Lots of options; We could do a pistol class, carbine III, or a repeat of carbine I and II. (Running through it again can only increase our skills, and would let folk who mised it this time around get on board.) We could impose on Bulletcatcher's hospitality again, or get a WI crew roadtrip to Princeton together. (Could book a block of hotel rooms, have a hot tub party, not have to worry about lighting lawn chairs on fire or being molested by a mole while we sleep.)

Is April too early?? Maybe carbine I and II in April at Bulletcatchers, then a WI road trip to Princeton for carbine III in July.

Thoughts?
10/20/2004 5:42:26 AM EDT
[#1]
I like it.  A repeat of 1 & 2 would allow my wife to attend, and I definitely want to attend 3.

Glenn R.
10/20/2004 5:51:30 AM EDT
[#2]
april would be good just not the same weekend as the hun farm trip
10/20/2004 6:15:01 AM EDT
[#3]
I'm up for it(carbine 'refresher'),I'm also up for something sooner either up 'dere or at my place.I NEED to take handgun training and I'd like the armorer's class also.If there is enough interest to carpool from the SE I'm IN.


I'm also interested in cold weather training,,,pistol,rifle shotgun in one weekend.It would be a good time to 'combine' some winter camping skills  also.Maybe Jan.-Feb.???

I'll have a better idea of my schedule in a couple of weeks,I'm DEFINITELY interested in shooting drills out here as often as I can.

BulletcatchR




10/20/2004 7:06:54 AM EDT
[#4]
It ain't often I wish I lived in the southern part of the state...
10/20/2004 7:32:13 AM EDT
[#5]
I'd be interested in pretty much anything, depending on schedualing, except Carbine 3.  (since I missed Carbine 1&2 ).  Even winter camping is something I'd like to try.
10/20/2004 7:36:16 AM EDT
[#6]
mabey do some winter camping at my or bullets land after deer season
10/20/2004 7:47:28 AM EDT
[#7]
April would be great.........I'll skip Cold Weather class............Drdoolittle_1 AKA wimp!
I may try to plan a I/II carbine class for way up north....so a class III or handgun will be great. Guess I'll have to set up the Dillon for the 458 Socom so I can bring more ammo........
Cheers,
Dave
10/20/2004 8:11:35 AM EDT
[#8]

Quoted:
Ok, i know that we still haven't cleaned up from last weekend, but should we start planning the next DE class?

Lots of options; We could do a pistol class, carbine III, or a repeat of carbine I and II. (Running through it again can only increase our skills, and would let folk who mised it this time around get on board.) We could impose on Bulletcatcher's hospitality again, or get a WI crew roadtrip to Princeton together. (Could book a block of hotel rooms, have a hot tub party, not have to worry about lighting lawn chairs on fire or being molested by a mole while we sleep.)

Is April too early?? Maybe carbine I and II in April at Bulletcatchers, then a WI road trip to Princeton for carbine III in July.

Thoughts?



Tommy, In december(the next meeting) I'm going to ask the board at my club for the ok to do the carbine 1&2 class at the club down here in Racine. But that won't be till April at the earliest, and I still have to check with Sully about dates in April that would be open.  Anyone would be more than welcome to come down and take the class obviously. We could than hit carbine 3 in june as than we'd have more people that could take it. Just an idea.
I'm down for whatever. Carbine three is a definate must on my list, as well as a handgun course or three cuz I suck with a handgun.

ETA:
Just read the rest of the thread, looks like a couple of us want to get classes going in our areas. What if we all do that, get the 1&2 classes set up in ourt areas and than after the classes, we all get together for the carbine 3 class at tattoo's or BulletcatcheR's. That way we have the opertunity to get more people involved in our areas too.
10/20/2004 8:26:01 AM EDT
[#9]
Here is an idea:

Winter camping trip in January at BulletcatcheR's place.  Cold Weather land nav/survival FTX combined with cold weather rifle class.

I am up for Pistol and Carbine III by April or so as well.

10/20/2004 9:59:56 AM EDT
[#10]
I had a lot of fun at the Carbine/MBR class. If we can get everyone together again, I'll do it again.  I'm definately in for Carbine 3.
10/20/2004 10:12:33 AM EDT
[#11]

Quoted:
I had a lot of fun at the Carbine/MBR class. If we can get everyone together again, I'll do it again.  I'm definately in for Carbine 3.



Just leave the south african 223 at home this time though, I think you got enough practice with failure to extract drills
10/20/2004 9:26:16 PM EDT
[#12]
 

mabey do some winter camping at my or bullets land after deer season


That would be sweet, Ive always wanted to try winter camping, I know Anthony and his wife are pretty big into it.
10/20/2004 9:30:14 PM EDT
[#13]
I would be very interested in taking this class sometime around April. I'm taking the Contact Defense course in a couple of weeks, and depending on how that goes, I may want to do the DE Carbine I and II (and maybe III down the road).
10/21/2004 9:56:53 AM EDT
[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Ok, i know that we still haven't cleaned up from last weekend, but should we start planning the next DE class?

Lots of options; We could do a pistol class, carbine III, or a repeat of carbine I and II. (Running through it again can only increase our skills, and would let folk who mised it this time around get on board.) We could impose on Bulletcatcher's hospitality again, or get a WI crew roadtrip to Princeton together. (Could book a block of hotel rooms, have a hot tub party, not have to worry about lighting lawn chairs on fire or being molested by a mole while we sleep.)

Is April too early?? Maybe carbine I and II in April at Bulletcatchers, then a WI road trip to Princeton for carbine III in July.

Thoughts?



Tommy, In december(the next meeting) I'm going to ask the board at my club for the ok to do the carbine 1&2 class at the club down here in Racine. But that won't be till April at the earliest, and I still have to check with Sully about dates in April that would be open.  Anyone would be more than welcome to come down and take the class obviously. We could than hit carbine 3 in june as than we'd have more people that could take it. Just an idea.
I'm down for whatever. Carbine three is a definate must on my list, as well as a handgun course or three cuz I suck with a handgun.

ETA:
Just read the rest of the thread, looks like a couple of us want to get classes going in our areas. What if we all do that, get the 1&2 classes set up in ourt areas and than after the classes, we all get together for the carbine 3 class at tattoo's or BulletcatcheR's. That way we have the opertunity to get more people involved in our areas too.



So, let's hold off on carbine I and II until we find out what's brewing in PMs ares. Hopefully, a I and II will occur down that way in April, and we can look at either putting a carbine III together somewhere in June or July, or get a road trip together to do in in Princeton.

In the meantime, maybe we can impose on Bulletcatcher to host a weekend shoot where we can  practice what we learned, do a bit of camping and maybe do a bit of land nav and / or medical.

Sound like a plan?
10/21/2004 10:07:07 AM EDT
[#15]
Sounds good to me.
10/21/2004 10:25:38 AM EDT
[#16]

Quoted:
So, let's hold off on carbine I and II until we find out what's brewing in PMs ares. Hopefully, a I and II will occur down that way in April, and we can look at either putting a carbine III together somewhere in June or July, or get a road trip together to do in in Princeton.

In the meantime, maybe we can impose on Bulletcatcher to host a weekend shoot where we can  practice what we learned, do a bit of camping and maybe do a bit of land nav and / or medical.

Sound like a plan?



I like it.

Glenn R.
10/21/2004 2:25:08 PM EDT
[#17]
Sounds like a good idea, TT.  With luck, I can catch a Carbine 1 & 2 either at PM's range or in a MN roadtrip.  Hopefully, we can impose on Stan's hospitality for some more general 'get together' time.  
10/24/2004 6:14:54 AM EDT
[#18]
Can someone please explain what the class is about? Exactly please? What does it cost per person? What is involved. What weapons can be used, etc.
I have seen the talk around the board but don't know what it is about.

Thanks
Flame
10/24/2004 7:39:40 AM EDT
[#19]

Quoted:
Can someone please explain what the class is about? Exactly please? What does it cost per person? What is involved. What weapons can be used, etc.
I have seen the talk around the board but don't know what it is about.

Thanks
Flame



Flame, here's Sullys syllibus for carbine I and II, the course we went through last weekend. It was $150 per person, which is an astoundingly good price compared to other schools. We're trying to get at least one more carbine I /II class together in the spring, as well as a carbine III class. There's also talk about doing the same type of thing with the handgunning classes. More info about last weekends class, including pics, can be found here; www.jobrelatedstuff.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=21&t=186659 The website for the Defensive Edge is at the bottom of Sully's quote. I've taken handgin I and now carbine I and II, and found it all to be supurb training, as well as a lot of fun.


TACTICAL CARBINE RIFLE (I/II)
2-day (16 hour)

Tactical Carbine Rifle User Level I/II Course is designed for the novice shooter or remedial training for the more experienced Carbine Rifle shooter. The Carbine Rifle is becoming more popular in the urban setting due to its great accuracy capabilities, and generally it is easier to shoot for most people due to its lack of recoil. This lack of recoil, combined with greater accuracy, make it a favorite among shooters. At the end of this course the shooter will have confidence that they can shoot at something and hit it, and not be intimidated by recoil. Students will learn proper foundations, maintenance, employment, ammunition selection, mechanics and manipulation. This course is designed to hone basic fundamentals while teaching individual tactics and techniques. Movement shooting will be added and stressed. Students will deal with a multitude of different targets at varying distances, and learn to shoot from cover and concealment from twelve-plus different shooting positions. Multiple targets will challenge even the experienced operator. Proficiency will be stressed, as well as reloads, and malfunction clearing.

PURPOSE / OBJECTIVE:

This course is designed to provide the general and specific knowledge concerning operation and tactical employment of the Carbine/Rifle weapons system. This course starts from basic fundamentals, then leads into tactical applications of those fundamentals.


TIME:

This course is approximately 16 hours total. This will include 1 hour of registration and introduction to the course and instructors. The remaining 15 hours will be spent on firearms safety, nomenclature of the different weapons systems, maintenance, and operation of the weapons. Operation will include loading, ballistics, tactical considerations, shooting positions, moving targets, malfunctions, and transition drills. Students will fire a combat qualification training courses in the daylight (as well as in the night time if the range permits). All will gain a general overall knowledge of employing the carbine rifle in real world applications..


STUDENT MATERIALS: (Minimum Suggestion)

1. Tactical Carbine Rifle & 3-magazines (AR15/M16, Mini’s, HK’s, Etc)
2. 800 Rds. of Carbine Ammunition
3. Handgun with holster & 100 Rds. Handgun Ammunition
4. Protective Ear and Eye Wear, Hat, Sunblock, Rain Gear, Water, etc.



TACTICAL CARBINE
(INSTRUCTIONAL OUTLINE)
CLASSROOM:

1. Nomenclature and Functions.
2. Sights and Sight Picture.
3. Basic Maintenance and Advanced Maintenance.
4. Basic Ballistic Issues (Internal, External, Terminal, BZO Issues
5. Fitting and Uses of the Three-Point Tactical Sling.
Uses: Military Style Support (Hasty Sling)
Over Weakside Shoulder (Muzzle Down and Why)
2pt transitions
Backpack Carry
Suitcase Carry
Tactical Carry: Low Muzzle Frontal
High Muzzle Frontal
Patrol carry
Behind the Backup Weapon
Left-hand & Right-hand Fitting
Proper Fitting (tension)

6. Explanation of Loading/Unloading, and Jamb Clearing
Backup Weapon Transition

7. Principles of Marksmanship:
Stance Grip (finger outside of guard)
Low Ready High Ready
Presentation Mounting
Sighting Aiming
Trigger Control Follow Through
Recovery Breathing

8. Explanation of: Single Fire, Double Tap, Hammer Fire, Controlled Fire

9. Explanation of Range Exercises.

10. Introduction to Commands of “Gun” and “Body Armor”.
Explanation of Drug and Body Armor Point of Aim.

RANGE

Sling the Weapon.

Explanation of Shooting Stances.

Practice of Loading and Unloading.

Zero: “From Low Ready” )
(safety on, safety off/presentation, single fire)
3yd
7yd, 15yd, 25yd.

5. Reloading / Malfunctions: 7 & 15yds
(gun & bodyarmor commands)
Double Tap until malfunction then
transition to backup weapon.
Clear malfunction from cover.
Team Reloads & Malfunctions

6. Firing Positions: 25yds 12 positions
Hi-Lo Kneel Hi-Lo Sitting
Seated Rice Patty Prone
Prone 3 types Cooper Rollover
Roll up/Supine SBU
50, 75, 100yds (10rds) Choice of Positions
(2 minimum)

7. Movement Shooting: Forward Slow/Med/Fast
15yds Forward ATF, Groucho, SAS
Rearward
Sideways with torso sideways, Sideways with torso facing

Pivots & Turns: 5yds Turns ¼ & ½ Left/Right & Moving Turns

Multiple Threats: Movement shooting 2-3 targets
(slow/med/fast)

10. Distance: Steel Silhouettes at 100-300yds if the range permits.

Extra if time and range permits:
2-man tactics, 2-4 man building clearing, Fighting around vehicles,
Low Light Tactics and Applications, CQB.




For those that frequent other web-boards, please spread the word as we only need a few more to make this course happen. Indiana and Illinois have some tactical training junkies there as well, so you might check with them to see if anyone wants to make a short drive.


Stay Safe,
Greg Sullivan "Sully"
Chief Instructor
www.thedefensiveedge.com




10/27/2004 12:05:11 PM EDT
[#20]
I'm fairly new to ar15.com due to a recently purcahsed gun.  

These courses look like something I would be interested in.  If/when these get scheduled I assume someone will post it up in the forum, is that correct?

I'm in Racine, so something in the SE would be best for me.

10/27/2004 1:01:22 PM EDT
[#21]

Quoted:
I'm fairly new to ar15.com due to a recently purcahsed gun.  

These courses look like something I would be interested in.  If/when these get scheduled I assume someone will post it up in the forum, is that correct?

I'm in Racine, so something in the SE would be best for me.




Yes something will be posted.
10/27/2004 2:18:02 PM EDT
[#22]
great, looking forward to it.  
10/28/2004 5:04:12 AM EDT
[#23]

Quoted:
great, looking forward to it.  



So where do you shoot at around here?
10/28/2004 9:28:25 PM EDT
[#24]
Uh oh, another Racine guy witha black rifle...  I better run and hide .
10/29/2004 1:46:55 PM EDT
[#25]
I'm in for an April Carbine 1 & 2 in WI.

It does not have to be an AR-15 carbine, correct? I use a USGI M1 Carbine.

Av.
10/29/2004 2:25:36 PM EDT
[#26]
I posted in the other thread... but Shooters and Bristol Range...
10/29/2004 9:38:06 PM EDT
[#27]
Holy cow, Phil shows his face in the WI forum
11/1/2004 10:01:59 AM EDT
[#28]
Count me in, just let me kow where and when

Batch114
11/1/2004 10:37:43 AM EDT
[#29]

Quoted:
Holy cow, Phil shows his face in the WI forum



Saw yer car up at shooters Sat. I stopped in to get some .223 to feed the C-mag. I was gunna see if you were out on the range but Iwas running low on time.


Batch, I'm hoping the club.
ETA: Will know more at dec. board meeting.
11/2/2004 1:58:53 PM EDT
[#30]
Mark,

Can you send the raw photos to my gmail account?  I'd like to put them together on a page with thumbs...

Tommy,

You ready to sell that Takko HacPoint?

11/2/2004 2:13:26 PM EDT
[#31]

Quoted:
Holy cow, Phil shows his face in the WI forum



Damn, this is the WI forum?

I've got to start reading the forum names.

Are you going to be shooting SWESA on the 13th?

Av.

11/2/2004 9:42:17 PM EDT
[#32]
I'll be doing SEWSA next weekend, and IDPA this weekend.   How was last month's mano a mano?
11/3/2004 4:13:24 AM EDT
[#33]

Quoted:
Mark,

Can you send the raw photos to my gmail account?  I'd like to put them together on a page with thumbs...

Tommy,

You ready to sell that Takko HacPoint?




Yah I'll send them later today or tomarrow. I don't have all of them though. There are a bunch I can't get off the memory card still.

11/3/2004 9:23:06 AM EDT
[#34]

Quoted:
I'll be doing SEWSA next weekend, and IDPA this weekend.

Do you have links to these events?  I've never actually shot a competitive match.  I've been around to see a couple of them at Shooters, but that is about it.  Ainfo/links would be appreciated.
11/3/2004 10:15:26 AM EDT
[#35]
SEWSA is a lot of fun!

MisterPX, Batch114 and myself shoot most of the matches.

It's a very friendly group of people, a much more relaxed atmosphere than a IDPA or IPSIC match.

Bring a gun, a waistband holster, and a couple of mags (I use 5 mags total, but I "spray-n-pray" when I shoot).

I think we wind up shooting about 80 to 100 rounds - and that is a high estimate.

I've seen all types of guns there, I shoot a stock 92FS, Batch114 shoots a H&K Tactical, I *think* MisterPX uses a 1911, some Glocks, a CZ, plus a few others.

The next match is on Sat. Nov. 13.  I don't know the start time though. I think it is at 6:00 PM. Price is $15 now.

Think about going - you already know a few people there!

Av.
11/4/2004 4:02:22 AM EDT
[#36]

Quoted:
... MisterPX uses a 1911...



Blasphemy!  

How can I find more about SEWSA?
11/4/2004 8:49:26 AM EDT
[#37]

Quoted:
SEWSA is a lot of fun!

MisterPX, Batch114 and myself shoot most of the matches.

It's a very friendly group of people, a much more relaxed atmosphere than a IDPA or IPSIC match.

Bring a gun, a waistband holster, and a couple of mags (I use 5 mags total, but I "spray-n-pray" when I shoot).

I think we wind up shooting about 80 to 100 rounds - and that is a high estimate.

I've seen all types of guns there, I shoot a stock 92FS, Batch114 shoots a H&K Tactical, I *think* MisterPX uses a 1911, some Glocks, a CZ, plus a few others.

The next match is on Sat. Nov. 13.  I don't know the start time though. I think it is at 6:00 PM. Price is $15 now.

Think about going - you already know a few people there!

Av.

Where are they held?  Do they have a website?  Different classes?  What kind of shooting?
11/4/2004 9:49:22 AM EDT
[#38]

Quoted:
Where are they held?  Do they have a website?  Different classes?  What kind of shooting?



They are held at Shooters in Racine. No website, and shooting is a cross between IDPA and IPSIC. Put two in targets A - C, don't shoot the hostage, etc. No goofy "mag change with retention" rules - shoot a mag dry, drop it, and reload.  No jackets required - no hats required - there are guys there with nice "race gun" 1911's with speed holsters, and there are people like me with a stock 92FS, a Fobus paddle holster, and mags stuck in my pockets since I can't afford more than one mag holder.

They have different classes - but I have no idea what they are. I know I'm stock service pistol with my 92FS.

Like I said - it's a lot more laid back than an IPSIC or IDPA shoot.

Av.
11/4/2004 9:52:42 AM EDT
[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:
... MisterPX uses a 1911...



Blasphemy!  

How can I find more about SEWSA?



It's at Shooters in Racine.

2nd Saturday of the month at 6:00 PM.

Av.
11/4/2004 1:01:42 PM EDT
[#40]
Any chance the Carbine I/II can be held in May?
Otherwise I am gonna be in school . . . (Lousy college . . . )
11/4/2004 1:19:58 PM EDT
[#41]

Quoted:
Mark,

Can you send the raw photos to my gmail account?  I'd like to put them together on a page with thumbs...

Tommy,

You ready to sell that Takko HacPoint?





1st set on the way
11/4/2004 1:23:02 PM EDT
[#42]

Quoted:
Any chance the Carbine I/II can be held in May?
Otherwise I am gonna be in school . . . (Lousy college . . . )



I sent an IM to Sully to see what would work best for him and his guys. just waiting to hear back. We'll see what comes up. It won't be durring the week though if thatwould help.
11/5/2004 8:10:44 AM EDT
[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Where are they held?  Do they have a website?  Different classes?  What kind of shooting?



They are held at Shooters in Racine. No website, and shooting is a cross between IDPA and IPSIC. Put two in targets A - C, don't shoot the hostage, etc. No goofy "mag change with retention" rules - shoot a mag dry, drop it, and reload.  No jackets required - no hats required - there are guys there with nice "race gun" 1911's with speed holsters, and there are people like me with a stock 92FS, a Fobus paddle holster, and mags stuck in my pockets since I can't afford more than one mag holder.

They have different classes - but I have no idea what they are. I know I'm stock service pistol with my 92FS. han
Av.

Hmmm... I might be able to make that.  How long do they typically last?
11/5/2004 8:14:26 AM EDT
[#44]
Depending on when/where the classes take place, I'd like to get in on a handgun or carbine I/II class.  That's if you will allow those from "South of the border" to attend.
11/5/2004 9:20:13 AM EDT
[#45]

Quoted:
Mark,

Can you send the raw photos to my gmail account?  I'd like to put them together on a page with thumbs...

Tommy,

You ready to sell that Takko HacPoint?




I dunno man, you hurt my feelings pretty bad when you didn't respond to my IM. I'm still talking to my therapist about it.    


How's 75 bucks sound?
11/5/2004 10:16:32 AM EDT
[#46]

Quoted:
Hmmm... I might be able to make that.  How long do they typically last?



They usually start sign-in/setup/saftey breifing at 6, and we have shot as late as midnight.

There are two stages, so if you have to leave early, you get a chance to shoot at least once.

Av.
11/5/2004 1:47:36 PM EDT
[#47]

Quoted:
I dunno man, you hurt my feelings pretty bad when you didn't respond to my IM. I'm still talking to my therapist about it.    



Wuss.  

(check your IM)
11/5/2004 5:06:10 PM EDT
[#48]
Come down and try SEWSA at least once.  It's a nice easy laid back atmosphere, MUCH more enjoyable than IDPA.
11/17/2004 10:16:51 AM EDT
[#49]
Ok guys, just a quick update for you eventhough it's not much.

As far as dates for this class go, I won't be able to find out till the Dec. 5th board meeting at my club, by than all the regular events for the club are suposed to be scheduled and I'll be able to get the available dates. I also have an IM in to Sully to let him know too and to find out what works best for him, I know he said he had something going on in the time frame we wanted but wasn't sure of the dates yet. Once I hear back from Sully and after the meeting on Dec. 5th I'll update again.

I know it's not much but thats it for now. Just wanted to let you guys know whats going on to this point.
11/17/2004 10:22:27 AM EDT
[#50]

Quoted:
Ok guys, just a quick update for you eventhough it's not much.
<snip>
Just wanted to let you guys know whats going on to this point.



I know I speak for others when I say I appreciate the update and look forward to the next class!

Glenn R.