Posted: 7/12/2012 9:07:18 AM EDT
|
It's my understanding the only way for a civilian to own a machine gun in WA is to purchase one that is currently owned by a civilian and was granfathered in prior to the MG ban taking place. Is this a correct understanding? Does the same go for SBR/SBS?
Where would one look for a WA legal MG, SBR, SBR for sale? Thanks in advance! |
|
Quoted:
It's my understanding the only way for a civilian to own a machine gun in WA is to purchase one that is currently owned by a civilian and was granfathered in prior to the MG ban taking place. Is this a correct understanding? Does the same go for SBR/SBS? Where would one look for a WA legal MG, SBR, SBR for sale? Thanks in advance! This is only for non SOT holders and civilian ownership. It basically says that for you to own a MG, SBR, or SBS in WA, it must have been possesed/owned it prior to some date in July 1994. So basically unless you have a Form 4 or Form 1 dated prior to that date in 1994 you can not have it in WA. I can't even legally visit with my MG because I didn't own it till 2008, even though it was registered with the ATF in 1986. |
|
Quoted:
Negative. Class 3 dealers can have samples but no individuals can own sbr's, machine guns, or short barrel shot guns. Doesn't matter if you owned it in the 1920's it is illegal to own or possess. Only law enforcement departments can have them. So there is no grandfather clause for those that owned legal MG's in Washington State before the 1994 date?... interesting.... |
|
Quoted:
Negative. Class 3 dealers can have samples but no individuals can own sbr's, machine guns, or short barrel shot guns. Doesn't matter if you owned it in the 1920's it is illegal to own or possess. Only law enforcement departments can have them. The RCW says otherwise.: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.190 (3) It shall be an affirmative defense to a prosecution brought under this section that the machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle was acquired prior to July 1, 1994, and is possessed in compliance with federal law.
For the OP, that means someone can't buy an MG from someone in state who is grandfathered, as you the buyer would not qualify for the "affirmative defense", having not acquired the item prior to 7/1/94. |
| M-16-Real might have heard something new, but I have met people who owned MG's and for sure SBR's. If it was registerstered in this state, before Jul 1 '94 it should be good to go. Those who registered MG's before that date were LEO, dealer or .Mil anyway. I know nothing of whether those people were allowed to keep their MG's, but I can say for sure that I know 2 people with SBR's and 1 with an MG. |
|
Quoted:
Negative. Class 3 dealers can have samples but no individuals can own sbr's, machine guns, or short barrel shot guns. Doesn't matter if you owned it in the 1920's it is illegal to own or possess. Only law enforcement departments can have them. As pointed out you are incorrect, and they posted the RCW. I know there has been a push to repeal the WA state ban on SBR, SBS, and MG . When actually the best way to do it is to get a very clever amendment (like I suggest below) to RCW 9.41.190 passed. To change the current regulations as it reads from this: (3) It shall be an affirmative defense to a prosecution brought under this section that the machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle was acquired prior to July 1, 1994, and is possessed in compliance with federal law. To this: (3) It shall be an affirmative defense to a prosecution brought under this section that the machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle is possessed in compliance with federal law. When I moved to Alabama from WA about 9 years ago, they had a state SBS and SBR ban. The first bill was to amend that law completely but then instead of doing that, they did an amendment similiar to above and I now have a nice 20 ga SxS 9.5" barreled SBS 
|
|
Thank you all!
I am in the process of getting things in order for an FFL 01/03 or 07/02. I have LE business lined up and will be able to buy pre or post samples of MG, SBR, SBS. Post samples are relatively reasonable priced. Dealer Pre samples are considerably more costly (10 times plus for some) and a bit harder to find, however as a class 2 or 3 ffl, you are allowed to transfer them to your person down the road when you close your business. The other question it left me with is if the current law in WA doesn't change, I wouldn't be able to keep a pre sample anyway unless we move to a state that allows it in our retirement or WA laws change. Since supply of preban MG's won't increase, buying a preban and getting to keep it way down the road could be a good deal, especially when reselling 40 years down the road when I'm too old to shoot it from my hover-a-round! I guess I talked myself out of a dealer presample, its a lot of money and to be honest, I don't need a MG. That is unless I happen onto a killer deal. I don't have a real need for a MG, but its nice to have fun toys! 
I hope that the WA laws change to align with federal laws soon!
Will keep my eye on the thread about pending amendments and do my part to help them succeed. If anyone has more info or thoughts, I'm all ears. Thank you all! |
|
How is this so hard to understand?
If you had a machine gun, SBR, or SBS, you got to keep it if you owned it and was legally registered before 1994. That's it. Nothing more. You didn't need to be a cop or a dealer to own one before that. And you didn't have them confiscated after that date. I know a few people with machine guns and short barreled rifles that owned them since before that date. You can't buy one from someone who was grandfathered because you didn't own it before 1994. Once that person dies, the firearm will need to be transferred to a dealer with an SOT to be sold outside the state... or it can be turned over to a PD or the ATF... for destruction. |
|
Quoted:
How is this so hard to understand? If you had a machine gun, SBR, or SBS, you got to keep it if you owned it and was legally registered before 1994. That's it. Nothing more. You didn't need to be a cop or a dealer to own one before that. And you didn't have them confiscated after that date. I know a few people with machine guns and short barreled rifles that owned them since before that date. You can't buy one from someone who was grandfathered because you didn't own it before 1994. Once that person dies, the firearm will need to be transferred to a dealer with an SOT to be sold outside the state... or it can be turned over to a PD or the ATF... for destruction. Just curious...does this apply if the firearm is on a trust? |
|
Quoted:
How is this so hard to understand? If you had a machine gun, SBR, or SBS, you got to keep it if you owned it and was legally registered before 1994. That's it. Nothing more. You didn't need to be a cop or a dealer to own one before that. And you didn't have them confiscated after that date. I know a few people with machine guns and short barreled rifles that owned them since before that date. You can't buy one from someone who was grandfathered because you didn't own it before 1994. Once that person dies, the firearm will need to be transferred to a dealer with an SOT to be sold outside the state... or it can be turned over to a PD or the ATF... for destruction. I was under the impression that it could still be TX'd on the form 5 in the case of the death of the owner. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
How is this so hard to understand? If you had a machine gun, SBR, or SBS, you got to keep it if you owned it and was legally registered before 1994. That's it. Nothing more. You didn't need to be a cop or a dealer to own one before that. And you didn't have them confiscated after that date. I know a few people with machine guns and short barreled rifles that owned them since before that date. You can't buy one from someone who was grandfathered because you didn't own it before 1994. Once that person dies, the firearm will need to be transferred to a dealer with an SOT to be sold outside the state... or it can be turned over to a PD or the ATF... for destruction. I was under the impression that it could still be TX'd on the form 5 in the case of the death of the owner. How? The transferee on the form 5 wouldn't have had possession since before 1994... unless you mean to someone out of state of course. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
How is this so hard to understand? If you had a machine gun, SBR, or SBS, you got to keep it if you owned it and was legally registered before 1994. That's it. Nothing more. You didn't need to be a cop or a dealer to own one before that. And you didn't have them confiscated after that date. I know a few people with machine guns and short barreled rifles that owned them since before that date. You can't buy one from someone who was grandfathered because you didn't own it before 1994. Once that person dies, the firearm will need to be transferred to a dealer with an SOT to be sold outside the state... or it can be turned over to a PD or the ATF... for destruction. Just curious...does this apply if the firearm is on a trust? Now that is a good question, and a lawyer should be consulted. The trust owned it before the ban and is grandfathered, so anyone on the trust isn't really possessing it, but then the act of having it in your hand is possession. This adds a complication to the situation that someone will likely have to pay to get an answer to. I'm sure the state never thought about trusts or corporations when they wrote and passed the ban. |
|
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How is this so hard to understand? If you had a machine gun, SBR, or SBS, you got to keep it if you owned it and was legally registered before 1994. That's it. Nothing more. You didn't need to be a cop or a dealer to own one before that. And you didn't have them confiscated after that date. I know a few people with machine guns and short barreled rifles that owned them since before that date. You can't buy one from someone who was grandfathered because you didn't own it before 1994. Once that person dies, the firearm will need to be transferred to a dealer with an SOT to be sold outside the state... or it can be turned over to a PD or the ATF... for destruction. I was under the impression that it could still be TX'd on the form 5 in the case of the death of the owner. How? The transferee on the form 5 wouldn't have had possession since before 1994... unless you mean to someone out of state of course. 3) It shall be an affirmative defense to a prosecution brought under this section that the machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle was acquired prior to July 1, 1994, and is possessed in compliance with federal law. mentions nothing about who had possesion prior to 1 July 1994. |
|
Now let us muddy the waters a bit. Can a person purchase a Revocable Living Trust from the founder of that trust. I know that LLC's can be bought and sold. So here comes the muddy part, if one were to purchase a trust or LLC that had NFA property among the contents would a transfer be necessary? The trust or LLc is a legal entity and the NFA items belong to the entity and not the individual.
If it is indeed possible/legal to purchase a trust or LLC from another person, could one do this today and take possession of a MG that was property of that trust or LLC since before July 1994? The MG would remain property of the legal entity that it was registered to originally. The only real issue I see here is that most who were in the NFA game prior to 1994 did so on the CLEO sign offs, not the LLC trust route. |
|
Quoted:
3) It shall be an affirmative defense to a prosecution brought under this section that the machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle was ACQUIRED (caps added) prior to July 1, 1994, and is possessed in compliance with federal law. It is interesting that the firearm only had to be acquired, not owned or possessed. The state could have easily put the phrase "registered to the current owner" if they wished, but they didn't do so. So, it would seem that as long as anyone acquired the weapon prior to July 1, 1994, it would be an affirmative defense. The phrase doesn't say "acquired and maintained continuous possession by the current registered owner", the weapon only had to be acquired... Apparently anyone having possession of the weapon would have "acquired" the weapon. I did not see anything where the person who had acquired the weapon prior to july 1, 1994 was prohibited from transferring ownership. The statute could have added the phrase "said weapon is not to be transferred within the State of Washington". I guess it would be easy for me to go on because I no longer have my select fire weapons. So I really don't have a dog in this fight. But I wish they would change the law to make it the same as Federal law. |
|
Quoted:
Now let us muddy the waters a bit. Can a person purchase a Revocable Living Trust from the founder of that trust. I know that LLC's can be bought and sold. So here comes the muddy part, if one were to purchase a trust or LLC that had NFA property among the contents would a transfer be necessary? The trust or LLc is a legal entity and the NFA items belong to the entity and not the individual. If it is indeed possible/legal to purchase a trust or LLC from another person, could one do this today and take possession of a MG that was property of that trust or LLC since before July 1994? The MG would remain property of the legal entity that it was registered to originally. The only real issue I see here is that most who were in the NFA game prior to 1994 did so on the CLEO sign offs, not the LLC trust route. Business property is business property, doesn't matter who the owner is. Buying a Corp or LLC with NFA items should be no problem at all, as long as you can legally own or be in possession of weapons. Like you said trusts were not really the go to transfer method at the time. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How is this so hard to understand? If you had a machine gun, SBR, or SBS, you got to keep it if you owned it and was legally registered before 1994. That's it. Nothing more. You didn't need to be a cop or a dealer to own one before that. And you didn't have them confiscated after that date. I know a few people with machine guns and short barreled rifles that owned them since before that date. You can't buy one from someone who was grandfathered because you didn't own it before 1994. Once that person dies, the firearm will need to be transferred to a dealer with an SOT to be sold outside the state... or it can be turned over to a PD or the ATF... for destruction. I was under the impression that it could still be TX'd on the form 5 in the case of the death of the owner. How? The transferee on the form 5 wouldn't have had possession since before 1994... unless you mean to someone out of state of course. 3) It shall be an affirmative defense to a prosecution brought under this section that the machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle was acquired prior to July 1, 1994, and is possessed in compliance with federal law. mentions nothing about who had possesion prior to 1 July 1994. Try it. I'll bet that the BATFE will not approve the transfer based on state law. Take the state to court.... and win, get an opinion from the attorney general's office stating that the law means exactly how it is written and things might change. Our laws have been horribly written. If you go by the letter of the law a rifle with a detachable mag can still be carried in a car with a round in the chamber as long as the mag isn't in it. The state tried to ban suppressors years ago, but screwed up the wording and only made the use of them illegal. That was finally changed last year. |
|
Quoted:
If you go by the letter of the law a rifle with a detachable mag can still be carried in a car with a round in the chamber as long as the mag isn't in it. I believe that is incorrect and is illegal. Umm, I think loaded rifles are actually covered under the hunting regulations. From the game regs: Loaded Firearms in a Vehicle It is illegal to carry, convey, transport, possess, or control a loaded shotgun or rifle in or on any motor vehicle. A rifle or shotgun containing shells or cartridges in either the chamber or magazine, or a muzzleloading firearm that is loaded and capped or primed is considered loaded. EDIT to add: I'll take that back the law is not covered under the hunting regluations, but the statement has been in the hunting regulations ever since I was a kid and hunted in WA so the mid to late 80's. The term LOADED is defined in RCW 9.41.010 Terms defined. 10) "Loaded" means: (a) There is a cartridge in the chamber of the firearm; (b) Cartridges are in a clip that is locked in place in the firearm; (c) There is a cartridge in the cylinder of the firearm, if the firearm is a revolver; (d) There is a cartridge in the tube or magazine that is inserted in the action; or (e) There is a ball in the barrel and the firearm is capped or primed if the firearm is a muzzle loader. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you go by the letter of the law a rifle with a detachable mag can still be carried in a car with a round in the chamber as long as the mag isn't in it. I believe that is incorrect and is illegal. Umm, I think loaded rifles are actually covered under the hunting regulations. From the game regs: Loaded Firearms in a Vehicle It is illegal to carry, convey, transport, possess, or control a loaded shotgun or rifle in or on any motor vehicle. A rifle or shotgun containing shells or cartridges in either the chamber or magazine, or a muzzleloading firearm that is loaded and capped or primed is considered loaded. EDIT to add: I'll take that back the law is not covered under the hunting regluations, but the statement has been in the hunting regulations ever since I was a kid and hunted in WA so the mid to late 80's. The term LOADED is defined in RCW 9.41.010 Terms defined. 10) "Loaded" means: (a) There is a cartridge in the chamber of the firearm; (b) Cartridges are in a clip that is locked in place in the firearm; (c) There is a cartridge in the cylinder of the firearm, if the firearm is a revolver; (d) There is a cartridge in the tube or magazine that is inserted in the action; or (e) There is a ball in the barrel and the firearm is capped or primed if the firearm is a muzzle loader. You're right. But there is in the Fish and Wildlife section of the RCW this, RCW 77.15.460
Loaded firearm in vehicle — Unlawful use or possession — Penalty. (5) For purposes of this section, a firearm shall not be considered loaded if the detachable clip or magazine is not inserted in or attached to the firearm. Notice that it specifically state it's not considered loaded. It doesn't mention anything about a round in the chamber making it loaded, and directly contradicts the wording in title 9. Contradictory laws. Nowhere else does it state that a person can't have a loaded rifle or shotgun in a vehicle, and for the purposes of the only section that prohibits carrying a loaded rifle or shotgun, it states that a mag not in or on the firearm isn't loaded. Our lawmakers can't keep their shit straight. Now, I'm not going to be the one to try and test that. I'll leave that to some rich fool with much more money than sense, and a very good and large team of lawyers to argue. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you go by the letter of the law a rifle with a detachable mag can still be carried in a car with a round in the chamber as long as the mag isn't in it. I believe that is incorrect and is illegal. Umm, I think loaded rifles are actually covered under the hunting regulations. From the game regs: Loaded Firearms in a Vehicle It is illegal to carry, convey, transport, possess, or control a loaded shotgun or rifle in or on any motor vehicle. A rifle or shotgun containing shells or cartridges in either the chamber or magazine, or a muzzleloading firearm that is loaded and capped or primed is considered loaded. EDIT to add: I'll take that back the law is not covered under the hunting regluations, but the statement has been in the hunting regulations ever since I was a kid and hunted in WA so the mid to late 80's. The term LOADED is defined in RCW 9.41.010 Terms defined. 10) "Loaded" means: (a) There is a cartridge in the chamber of the firearm; (b) Cartridges are in a clip that is locked in place in the firearm; (c) There is a cartridge in the cylinder of the firearm, if the firearm is a revolver; (d) There is a cartridge in the tube or magazine that is inserted in the action; or (e) There is a ball in the barrel and the firearm is capped or primed if the firearm is a muzzle loader. You're right. But there is in the Fish and Wildlife section of the RCW this, RCW 77.15.460
Loaded firearm in vehicle — Unlawful use or possession — Penalty. (5) For purposes of this section, a firearm shall not be considered loaded if the detachable clip or magazine is not inserted in or attached to the firearm. Notice that it specifically state it's not considered loaded. It doesn't mention anything about a round in the chamber making it loaded, and directly contradicts the wording in title 9. Contradictory laws. Nowhere else does it state that a person can't have a loaded rifle or shotgun in a vehicle, and for the purposes of the only section that prohibits carrying a loaded rifle or shotgun, it states that a mag not in or on the firearm isn't loaded. Our lawmakers can't keep their shit straight. Now, I'm not going to be the one to try and test that. I'll leave that to some rich fool with much more money than sense, and a very good and large team of lawyers to argue. Can I get a big fucking hell yeah??!! |
|
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How is this so hard to understand? If you had a machine gun, SBR, or SBS, you got to keep it if you owned it and was legally registered before 1994. That's it. Nothing more. You didn't need to be a cop or a dealer to own one before that. And you didn't have them confiscated after that date. I know a few people with machine guns and short barreled rifles that owned them since before that date. You can't buy one from someone who was grandfathered because you didn't own it before 1994. Once that person dies, the firearm will need to be transferred to a dealer with an SOT to be sold outside the state... or it can be turned over to a PD or the ATF... for destruction. I was under the impression that it could still be TX'd on the form 5 in the case of the death of the owner. How? The transferee on the form 5 wouldn't have had possession since before 1994... unless you mean to someone out of state of course. 3) It shall be an affirmative defense to a prosecution brought under this section that the machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle was acquired prior to July 1, 1994, and is possessed in compliance with federal law. mentions nothing about who had possesion prior to 1 July 1994. Try it. I'll bet that the BATFE will not approve the transfer based on state law. Take the state to court.... and win, get an opinion from the attorney general's office stating that the law means exactly how it is written and things might change. Our laws have been horribly written. If you go by the letter of the law a rifle with a detachable mag can still be carried in a car with a round in the chamber as long as the mag isn't in it. The state tried to ban suppressors years ago, but screwed up the wording and only made the use of them illegal. That was finally changed last year. Since when do the feds enforce state law? |
|
It would be nice if I had a select fire weapon sale pending, in order to challenge the law...it would be even better if I had the money to pay an attorney to do all the legal fighting to get this all sorted out. But as things stand, I have neither a sale pending, nor the extra funds to pay an attorney to challenge this.
Things like this are what makes me dismayed at how the NRA and second amendment foundation do their legal fights. It would be great if one or both groups would take on the Hughes amendment and laws like this. It seems that most groups wait until someone else has already gotten the case pushed far enough along that they can "ride along" for the final stretch. Much like what the feds do when local law enforcement has done all the real work to uncover a case. Then they come in for all the press releases, glory, and try to hog all the credit for all the previous work that was done. |
|
Quoted:
Try it. I'll bet that the BATFE will not approve the transfer based on state law. Take the state to court.... and win, get an opinion from the attorney general's office stating that the law means exactly how it is written and things might change. Our laws have been horribly written. If you go by the letter of the law a rifle with a detachable mag can still be carried in a car with a round in the chamber as long as the mag isn't in it. The state tried to ban suppressors years ago, but screwed up the wording and only made the use of them illegal. That was finally changed last year. Since when do the feds enforce state law? Well there's this document http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8-chapter-9.pdf that states this, 9.4.2.1 Copies of transferees’ State or local licenses or permits. If State or local law requires the transferee to have a State or local license or permit to possess the firearm and the requirement is imposed upon the person prior to receipt, the Form 4 application should also be accompanied by a copy of the license or permit. as well as this, 9.4.2 ATF Form 4. Forms 4, Application for Tax Paid Transfer and Registration of a Firearm, are for use in transferring serviceable NFA firearms in the following instances: transfers by non-FFLs/SOTs to other such persons; transfers by non-FFLs/SOTs to FFLs/SOTs; and transfers by FFLs/SOTs to non- FFLs/SOTs.167 Appendix C contains a copy of the form. See also Sections 3.2.6.1 through 3.2.6.3. These transfers are subject to the NFA transfer tax, so the forms must be accompanied by the appropriate tax payment. Forms 4 transferring firearms to individuals other than FFLs/SOTs must also be accompanied by transferees’ fingerprints and photographs on FBI Forms FD-258. If the individual’s receipt or possession of the firearm would violate Federal, State, or local law, the form would be disapproved. In addition, an individual transferee must have an appropriate law enforcement official execute the certification on the form.168 See Section 9.8 for more information on law enforcement |
|
The loaded firearm contradiction where a round in the chamber means it is loaded, yet in another section having the magazine out means it is not loaded. So, it would appear that you might be able to argue that a round in the chamber of a firearm where the magazine has been removed, is unloaded.
I sure wouldn't want to try selling it to the jury, but it backs up an earlier statement about how badly some laws were written. Getting the state to change gun laws is difficult. They fear that opening up one section of laws for clarification, may in some way have a domino effect rendering other sections moot. |
|
Quoted: Quoted: Try it. I'll bet that the BATFE will not approve the transfer based on state law. Take the state to court.... and win, get an opinion from the attorney general's office stating that the law means exactly how it is written and things might change. Our laws have been horribly written. If you go by the letter of the law a rifle with a detachable mag can still be carried in a car with a round in the chamber as long as the mag isn't in it. The state tried to ban suppressors years ago, but screwed up the wording and only made the use of them illegal. That was finally changed last year. Since when do the feds enforce state law? Well there's this document http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8-chapter-9.pdf that states this, 9.4.2.1 Copies of transferees’ State or local licenses or permits. If State or local law requires the transferee to have a State or local license or permit to possess the firearm and the requirement is imposed upon the person prior to receipt, the Form 4 application should also be accompanied by a copy of the license or permit. as well as this, 9.4.2 ATF Form 4. Forms 4, Application for Tax Paid Transfer and Registration of a Firearm, are for use in transferring serviceable NFA firearms in the following instances: transfers by non-FFLs/SOTs to other such persons; transfers by non-FFLs/SOTs to FFLs/SOTs; and transfers by FFLs/SOTs to non- FFLs/SOTs.167 Appendix C contains a copy of the form. See also Sections 3.2.6.1 through 3.2.6.3. These transfers are subject to the NFA transfer tax, so the forms must be accompanied by the appropriate tax payment. Forms 4 transferring firearms to individuals other than FFLs/SOTs must also be accompanied by transferees’ fingerprints and photographs on FBI Forms FD-258. If the individual’s receipt or possession of the firearm would violate Federal, State, or local law, the form would be disapproved. In addition, an individual transferee must have an appropriate law enforcement official execute the certification on the form.168 See Section 9.8 for more information on law enforcement Let it go.
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Try it. I'll bet that the BATFE will not approve the transfer based on state law. Take the state to court.... and win, get an opinion from the attorney general's office stating that the law means exactly how it is written and things might change. Our laws have been horribly written. If you go by the letter of the law a rifle with a detachable mag can still be carried in a car with a round in the chamber as long as the mag isn't in it. The state tried to ban suppressors years ago, but screwed up the wording and only made the use of them illegal. That was finally changed last year. Since when do the feds enforce state law? Well there's this document http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8-chapter-9.pdf that states this, 9.4.2.1 Copies of transferees’ State or local licenses or permits. If State or local law requires the transferee to have a State or local license or permit to possess the firearm and the requirement is imposed upon the person prior to receipt, the Form 4 application should also be accompanied by a copy of the license or permit. as well as this, 9.4.2 ATF Form 4. Forms 4, Application for Tax Paid Transfer and Registration of a Firearm, are for use in transferring serviceable NFA firearms in the following instances: transfers by non-FFLs/SOTs to other such persons; transfers by non-FFLs/SOTs to FFLs/SOTs; and transfers by FFLs/SOTs to non- FFLs/SOTs.167 Appendix C contains a copy of the form. See also Sections 3.2.6.1 through 3.2.6.3. These transfers are subject to the NFA transfer tax, so the forms must be accompanied by the appropriate tax payment. Forms 4 transferring firearms to individuals other than FFLs/SOTs must also be accompanied by transferees’ fingerprints and photographs on FBI Forms FD-258. If the individual’s receipt or possession of the firearm would violate Federal, State, or local law, the form would be disapproved. In addition, an individual transferee must have an appropriate law enforcement official execute the certification on the form.168 See Section 9.8 for more information on law enforcement Let it go.
Notice that is only for Form 4, while a tax free transfer to a heir is done on a Form 5. |
|
They don't enforce state law they just won't approve a transfer if it's against state law.
Just like I stated in my first post. They won't allow the transfer based on state law. You are reading way to much into a simple sentence. Ok, forget that part of what I do for a living is sell these things. And that I've spoken to a couple lawyers who specialize in the NFA. And that I call and talk to our local BATFE agent. Forget all that and just try it yourself. Get one, prove me wrong. I could be totally screwed up. Or just call the NFA branch and ask. (304) 616-4500. |
|
Quoted: They don't enforce state law they just won't approve a transfer if it's against state law. Just like I stated in my first post. They won't allow the transfer based on state law. You are reading way to much into a simple sentence. Ok, forget that part of what I do for a living is sell these things. And that I've spoken to a couple lawyers who specialize in the NFA. And that I call and talk to our local BATFE agent. Forget all that and just try it yourself. Get one, prove me wrong. I could be totally screwed up. Or just call the NFA branch and ask. (304) 616-4500. Sorry,... slept since then. What were we talking about? |