Posted: 1/1/2009 5:14:17 PM EDT
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Well my wifes stepdad went to Big 5 to buy a surplus rifle the day after Thanksgiving and got delayed. He still hasent got the go ahead. I tell him that I can buy the rifle and sell it to him if things dont go through because Big 5 doesnt have the 3-5 day wait then release. If they dont here back in 30 days then he has to do it all over again or file a appeal. So today he asked me to do that.
I walk into Big 5 with him and I ask to see the rifle that he wanted so I could buy it. The guy told me I couldnt buy it then give it to him because it is a felony. So I cant buy a gun and give it to him as a gift? Why cant I but the gun and give it to him? I try to buy a gun and I get delayed? WTF? So know he dosent feel so bad about the delay. |
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Big5 is covering their ass, they are a California company after all, although I would find out if the 30 day wait is their BS or if someone is full of shit.
In this case with the information you have given it would be considered to be a straw purchase since someone was delayed. Did both of you use your SSN's? (P34) Will NICS provide an instant response? [Back]
NICS will not always provide an instant response. Licensees will receive either a “proceed”, “denied”, “delayed”, or “cancelled” response from NICS. If a “proceed” response is received, the transfer may proceed. If a “denied” response is received, the transfer may not proceed. **If a “delayed” response is received, the transfer must be delayed until a “proceed” response is received from NICS or until the lapse of 3 business days, whichever occurs first. Of course, the licensee must still comply with any waiting period requirements under State law. See Question P29 for a discussion of cancelled transactions. http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#p34 |
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Its not a straw purchase unless the guy legally CANNOT buy that gun by himself.
If the feds are delaying him, well...that sucks. I had a friend delayed on his first gun purchase because his name is Adam Smith - and there are probably 5 million people with that name in America, and 5000 of them are felons. Edited to add: Big 5 is covering their ass. |
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Its not a straw purchase unless the guy legally CANNOT buy that gun by himself. If the feds are delaying him, well...that sucks. I had a friend delayed on his first gun purchase because his name is Adam Smith - and there are probably 5 million people with that name in America, and 5000 of them are felons. He can't legaly buy the gun because he's been delayed by the FBI and ATF. That's pretty fucking legal to me. |
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Its not a straw purchase unless the guy legally CANNOT buy that gun by himself. If the feds are delaying him, well...that sucks. I had a friend delayed on his first gun purchase because his name is Adam Smith - and there are probably 5 million people with that name in America, and 5000 of them are felons. He can't legaly buy the gun because he's been delayed by the FBI and ATF. That's pretty fucking legal to me. I wasn't concise in my point: If he HADN'T filed the 4473 and this guy knew he was legally allowed to purchase the gun, and gifted it to him, it wouldn't be a straw purchase. At this point the feds delaying him may be fucking lame, but you cant circumvent that by purchasing the same gun and gifting it as far as the store and the gov are concerned. Getting delayed is luck of the draw in some database of names and social security numbers...usually doesn't take more than 3-5 days. Never have been. |
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It is legal to gift a firearm to someone who resides in the same state as you and whom you do not believe to be legally barred from owning or possessing firearms.
The problem with your specific situation is that several aspects have now been created that make it appear as though the sale is a straw man purchase for someone who cannot legally purchase a firearm himself. Look at it objectively. They have a customer who is unable to to pass the NICS check, then he shows up with someone else to buy the firearm as a "gift" for him. Now to make it starker, imagine that this involved Glock fotays, baggy pants, and grills. Based on the information provided, I'm not sure I can fault Big 5 for being hesitant here. They don't know you father in-law from Adam. |
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You set off all kinds of warning flags when you went to go ask about a rifle that was in the process of being purchased by someone who has it pending their delay.
Calling it a gift doesn't make it a legitimate gift. This is from the previous version of the 4473 Are you the actual buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form? Warning: You are not the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual buyer, the dealer cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you. (See Important Notice 1 for actual buyer definition and examples.) 1. For purposes of this form, you are the actual buyer if you are purchasing the firearm for yourself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for yourself (for example, redeeming the firearm from pawn/retrieving it from consignment). You are also the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm as a legitimate gift for a third party. ACTUAL BUYER EXAMPLES: Mr. Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the money for the firearm. Mr. Jones is NOT the actual buyer of the firearm and must answer “no “ to question 12a. The licensee may not transfer the firearm to Mr. Jones. However, if Mr. Brown goes to buy a firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Black as a present, Mr. Brown is the actual buyer of the firearm and should answer “yes” to question 12a. |
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You set off all kinds of warning flags when you went to go ask about a rifle that was in the process of being purchased by someone who has it pending their delay. Calling it a gift doesn't make it a legitimate gift. This is from the previous version of the 4473 Are you the actual buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form? Warning: You are not the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual buyer, the dealer cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you. (See Important Notice 1 for actual buyer definition and examples.) 1. For purposes of this form, you are the actual buyer if you are purchasing the firearm for yourself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for yourself (for example, redeeming the firearm from pawn/retrieving it from consignment). You are also the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm as a legitimate gift for a third party. ACTUAL BUYER EXAMPLES: Mr. Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the money for the firearm. Mr. Jones is NOT the actual buyer of the firearm and must answer “no “ to question 12a. The licensee may not transfer the firearm to Mr. Jones. However, if Mr. Brown goes to buy a firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Black as a present, Mr. Brown is the actual buyer of the firearm and should answer “yes” to question 12a. Understood. I just didnt know that since he filed that I couldnt buy the gun and give it to him. That's what I needed to know. I dont fault Big 5 for anything that happened just wanted to know the details as to why it would be a Felony. Which they didnt explain. I got the, It's Felony and that was all. Thanks for the info. |
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Unless I read the OP wrong, they have to give him the gun. You don't wait to hear from them. They have 4 business days to find a reason why he can't have it. If you don't hear from them, your good to go. I get delayed every time, and then I go back and pick up After 4 business day's. |
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It is legal to gift a firearm to someone who resides in the same state as you and whom you do not believe to be legally barred from owning or possessing firearms. The problem with your specific situation is that several aspects have now been created that make it appear as though the sale is a straw man purchase for someone who cannot legally purchase a firearm himself. Look at it objectively. They have a customer who is unable to to pass the NICS check, then he shows up with someone else to buy the firearm as a "gift" for him. Now to make it starker, imagine that this involved Glock fotays, baggy pants, and grills. Based on the information provided, I'm not sure I can fault Big 5 for being hesitant here. They don't know you father in-law from Adam. Enough said . Exactly what I was thinking. Edit: Also Axing for dos special Glock Bullets . |
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Unless I read the OP wrong, they have to give him the gun. You don't wait to hear from them. They have 4 business days to find a reason why he can't have it. If you don't hear from them, your good to go. I get delayed every time, and then I go back and pick up After 4 business day's. No such thing as "have to". If the delayed transaction cannot be resolved within three business days, it is at the discretion of the FFL whether to allow the firearm transfer. |
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Getting delayed is luck of the draw in some database of names and social security numbers...usually doesn't take more than 3-5 days.
I've bought many a weapon and have NEVER given out my SSN. Is that because of my CWP? http://www.atf.gov/forms/4473/index.htm Optional. WILL help you to not be delayed. |
| Normally most of the delay's Ive seen do not have the SSN listed. Most people who do put the SSN will either get a proceed or denied immediately. This is not to say that you wont get a proceed with out listing it your just more likely to get an immediate decision with it. Also with a delay, I have seen them come back within 30 minutes of being delayed. I usually tell people it is optional but, it does help. |
csumerall, I don't know if I've seen ya here before, so WELCOME!
I've always put my SSN on those forms. I'm one of those lucky ones who's never had a delay. Always seems creepy when they're on the phone talkin' about you with the Feds............... 
From what I've read here before, it seems delays are very common for some folks, for whatever random reason. Some always get a delay, they expect it, but it goes through eventually. Chalk it up to the failures of bloated beaurocracy, I guess........... VR15, I'm sure the delay will eventually get fixed. Continue calling them. And yeah, I hate to say it, but maybe shouldn't have gone in there with him, they obviously knew what was up at that point.............I can see them being wary, even though WE know you guys are cool..............still sucks though, I know. |
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If you get a delay, NICS has 3 business days to sort it out. If they do not get back to the FFL within those three days, the FFL can transfer you the firearm on the 4th day. Whether the FFL will transfer it to you is a business policy of the FFL. Some will wait until NICS gets back to them, some will transfer after the 3 days.
Apparently, during audits, the ATF will check for similar names in the event of a DENIAL, so if Mr. Smith comes in and gets denied, and a day later MRS. Smith comes in and buys the same gun, a flag will go up, a likely straw purchase. So to avoid that type of situation an FFL may not sell a gun in a suspicious situation. That's what it sounds like is happening here. ~Icarus |
So I got the word back from Big 5 that my delay turned in to the good to go. Great right, not really. Since I said I wanted to buy the rifle for my wifes stepdad not knowing about the straw purchase they terminated my transaction. I tried to buy the exacted gun not the one they are holding for him but one just like it at a diffrent store. The manager in Oak Harbor called Burlingtons Big 5 and told them I was trying to buy a gun for someone else. So I guess I cant buy that exact gun there ever
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So I got the word back from Big 5 that my delay turned in to the good to go. Great right, not really. Since I said I wanted to buy the rifle for my wifes stepdad not knowing about the straw purchase they terminated my transaction. I tried to buy the exacted gun not the one they are holding for him but one just like it at a diffrent store. The manager in Oak Harbor called Burlingtons Big 5 and told them I was trying to buy a gun for someone else. So I guess I cant buy that exact gun there ever WTF ? If what your saying is true...FUCK BIG 5. Their ammo prices suck anyhow. Their knife sales kick ass though. |
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So I got the word back from Big 5 that my delay turned in to the good to go. Great right, not really. Since I said I wanted to buy the rifle for my wifes stepdad not knowing about the straw purchase they terminated my transaction. I tried to buy the exacted gun not the one they are holding for him but one just like it at a diffrent store. The manager in Oak Harbor called Burlingtons Big 5 and told them I was trying to buy a gun for someone else. So I guess I cant buy that exact gun there ever I am just curious, how come you never ask advice BEFORE you do something and you never follow advice given? 
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So I got the word back from Big 5 that my delay turned in to the good to go. Great right, not really. Since I said I wanted to buy the rifle for my wifes stepdad not knowing about the straw purchase they terminated my transaction. I tried to buy the exacted gun not the one they are holding for him but one just like it at a diffrent store. The manager in Oak Harbor called Burlingtons Big 5 and told them I was trying to buy a gun for someone else. So I guess I cant buy that exact gun there ever I am just curious, how come you never ask advice BEFORE you do something and you never follow advice given?
I didnt think anything of it at first because I had bought a pistol for my grandfather for Christmas and had told the sales guy that I was doing this. No problem there. As for the advice you guy's gave me is after the fact of all this happening. I know better know. |