Posted: 9/11/2008 10:43:25 PM EDT
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How many here would give up everything(property, money, family, careers, safety and security, or life) for your ideals. Not just in hypothetical I mean really, not knowing if the cause would succeed or if it was in vain. Not being able to see the true end result of your actions is sometimes off-putting. In the instant gratification/prosperity above all world which we live, how many of us would or could sacrifice it all to change the coarse of this country. I only ask what I consider to be a very personal question because I need a gauge or maybe a social check of my own thoughts. I never cared much about politics or any of the "big issues" and until recently probably thought that other peoples opinion was more important than my own. These youthful feelings however are giving way to what I can only describe as a burning to do something, help, get involved, don't stand by while the wheels fall from this once great and respected nation. I believe myself to be of impeccable character and unwavering moral fiber, but what good does this do for me or anyone else. How, in a time and place where none will sacrifice for what they believe, can someone who will truly accomplish anything that resembles great. If those before us sought comfort and prosperity what would our world be today? Don't we owe them the honor of making this country the place they never saw it become? Even if we never get to see it. |
Good food for though. True that the earlier generations that built this country and made it great were not bent solely on the "instant gratification and prosperity" that you speak of. |
I do believe that Americans do contain a nationalistic attribute, but unfortunately it has been utilized (for the last two centuries) to facilitate imperialism. Rogo |
 His ideals are pretty much the same ones our Forefathers had at breeds hill. I see no distillation or dilution there. not trying to start a pissing contest, just calling em like i sees em. |
Reason and Ignorance, the opposites of each other, influence the great bulk of mankind. If either of these can be rendered sufficiently extensive in a country, the machinery of government goes easily on. Reason obeys itself; and Ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it. TP Rogo |
OP's post sounds pretty reasonable and makes just as much sense today as it did in 1775 does it not? |
The reference to a moral value if predicated upon the first person in every sentence of his post. When the republic was first written about it was a theory based upon the social fabric of the first nation state, and the moral fiber of the nation was fragile, as is the topic of this thread. His ideals are diluted because you think they are not. His ideals are anachronistic because you believe that they are contemporary. His ideals are distilled because there is holander grass in the water. Rogo |
Yo. Right here. If I don't, what kind of example would I be for my kids? As the pink floyd song asks: "Would you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage?" I'd rather be forgotten as one of the faceless masses who at least tried then remembered as one of the ones who meekly walked onto the cattle car. |
B44t |
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To argue with a man who has renounced his reason is like giving medicine to the dead. Rogo |
You walked onto the cattle car when you bred. Rogo |
To argue with a man who has renounced his reason is like giving medicine to the dead. Colud be construed as a personal attack instead of resoned and logical reply. Sort of carries the implication that i have renounced reason.  I assure all I have not.If one dissagrees with my resoning and logic just say so please. *Edited for overtired spelling and lousey punctuation* |
You walked onto the cattle car when you bred. So what exactly precicely are you saying about him? |
The mechanism humans use to move towards eternity is reproduction, unfortunately we have overpopulated our planet and through reproduction one does not facilitate species specific Darwinism, but the ultimate die-off of the species. Rogo |
And this constitutes getting on a proverbial cattle car how? Under your "ideal" circumstances, you are correct that the over-population of a species will eventually lead to its destruction, but the truth is that the planet can and will heal faster then the human race can entirely obliterate it, and secondly, humans are worse then cockroaches and will find a way to survive as a species, regardless of our self inflicted stupidity. They might not survive with todays standard of living, but we, as a species will survive. Count on it. |
I would like believe your proposition. Rogo |
When you have a somewhat controlled environment such as the easter islands, your concept was proven out. Except for the fact that the humans there didn't die. They left and went elsewhere. When taken as a whole, most of the creatures on this planet, excepting insectoids, do not survive in large enough numbers, and are geographically limited. Hence, given a climate shift over a short enough period of time, they will die of exposure to the elements because they cannot adapt fast enough. The thing about humans, as i'm sure you know, is that we are not gifted with natural physical attributes, but rather make up for it with the ability to think our way through changes, even changes to our environment brought about by ourselves. We wer egifted with the ability to change our environment instead of letting it kill us. We adapt through our use of tools and thought processes whereas all other creatures are forced to survive on natural physical talen, that when their environment becomes too much, too fast, they cannot adapt quickly enough and die out. The human races greatest strength is also our greatest weakness. While we can adapt over any and all environments on this planet and even outside of this planet, we can inflict too much change and cause the destruction of our environment. Not saying I agree with the whole "global warming caused by humans" crap, i'm thinking more along the lines of nuc warefare and the like. Even as lacking in higher thought processes as they are, even ghetto rats can prove extremely adaptable and survivable when put into unknown situations. Point being that even the lowest common denominator of the human species will find a way to survive. Maybe not in the best of means, or in the best manner, but we will. So long as there is at least one male and one female human left, we will survive. Like I said, we're like cockroaches....but with brains. |
Darwinism and such things are good topics for discusion please do not confuse the issue and change the subject here,,, How does haveing children make one one of the sheeple who meekly get on the cattle car especialy in the context of the original post? |
It's a good thing you wrote the next two paragraphs after that one... 'cuz I thought you were goin' all Lee Harvey on us. |
Although not in a patriotic sense, I am wrestling wiht that dilema myself lately. I'd love to say wholeheartedely that the "cause" is supreme, but I'm just arrogant enough to want to know the ending before I put the effort out. So do I continue looking, or do I leap? I dunno....yet. Hopefully that answers the question. 
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Since the introduction of atomic weapons, death from war has fallen significantly, driving the population upwards. Antibiotics have done the same to death from infections. Vaccines are keeping us ahead of the plagues. Public funding of healthcare for pregnancies and child rearing, even more pressure. The society we've maintained for ourselves is collapsing as some among us try to establish a welfare state that is unsustainable. |
What makes you think he's heterosexual? |
Very good post there, brother, very well put. And yeah, why is the troll in our midst bein fed? I wonder if there's a way we could get rid of this negative influence................. |
ignore his dumb ass... |
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In the end, the cause IS supreme and the best we can hope to know about the end is that we are already dead and will be forgotten, but our efforts will be the bedrock on which the cause will be founded. For there to be an advancement of mankind, or for ideals and principles to stand and succeed, there must be the forgotten, expendable foot soldiers who get ground into the mud for those who rise to flesh out the cause to walk over to get to the place where they can breath life into the cause. I've already accepted my position and am comfortable with it. It might not be me, my children, or even my grand children, but one day, as long as I do my part and pass down the teachings of right and wrong, strong moral principles, good ethics and the love of freedom, one day some kin of mine will be among those not just dying for the cause, but rather among those establishing and sustaining the cause of freedom through their influence, thought and action. I am comfortable being an unknown cog in the machine of freedom with the hope that through my example and encouragement of critical thought, self awareness, and the love of freedom, one day I will ensure that there will be a generation that will stand up and do the right thing for mankind and will be the ones making the decision to ensure liberty, not just getting ground up in the treads of the enemy while fighting for it. It is my hope that by my example and sacrifice, my kin will be at the forfront of the cause instead of the meek subjects of tyranny. |
 Here I was, starting to wonder if I missed the point of this thread in all the distractions.I am perfectly content with annonimity, but I wrestle with the idea of unsuccessful effort. It's not that I'm afraid of failing, I screw up all the time. I really don't mind talking about it or anything, I view it as a cold, unemotional fact. But the idea of wasted effort, of trying, and noone ever succeeding (myself, or those who build upon my corpse), is highly irratating. In an organizational theory class, I described it like this:
So, I'm willing to be expendable, even to fail at the larger goal, as long as I have made a contribution. But not knowing if I've made a contribution (because I don't know the end result), makes it potentially wasteful to exert my efforts. 
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