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AR15.COM
11/16/2006 11:11:49 AM EDT
This thread is meant for any of the WAHTF guys who are in the military, but as usual, anyone should feel free to jump in.

For those of you who have been to the sand box or the 'stan, how was your chain of command's policy on wearing aftermarket tactical gear.  Mine was cool with anything as long as it was tactically sound, and didnt replace maditory safety gear.

The reason I ask is I post on about.com's miltary forum quite a bit.  A kid who was interested in joining asked a question about wearing better(high speed) gear.  Now I am engaged in mortal combat with a guy who claims that all pieces of gear need to be approved by your COC, and that most commands dont like it.
11/16/2006 11:19:13 AM EDT
[#1]

Quoted:
This thread is meant for any of the WAHTF guys who are in the military, but as usual, anyone should feel free to jump in.

For those of you who have been to the sand box or the 'stan, how was your chain of command's policy on wearing aftermarket tactical gear.  Mine was cool with anything as long as it was tactically sound, and didnt replace maditory safety gear.

The reason I ask is I post on about.com's miltary forum quite a bit.  A kid who was interested in joining asked a question about wearing better(high speed) gear.  Now I am engaged in mortal combat with a guy who claims that all pieces of gear need to be approved by your COC, and that most commands dont like it.


In the grand scheme of things the individual COC is what matters.

If they say yes it's ok.  If they say no then your ass is up shit creek if you do it anyway.

When I was over there in 90-91 there was no such thing as high speed gear for my unit.

You wore what you were issued and that was all you wore.
11/16/2006 11:21:21 AM EDT
[#2]
I see where you are comming from GMW.  Im trying to get a majority perspective here.  Id say that the amount of COCs that disaprove are few.
11/16/2006 11:23:29 AM EDT
[#3]
i've never been deployed but i saw lots of guys that had been with aftermarket vests like blackhawk and various subloads at rifle qual at ft. lewis this september. i wouldnt think it would be conducive to precision shooting but there were several there. I guess my unit is cool with it. The attitude seems to be if you are in the field anything is cool, but in garrison you better square your ass away.
11/16/2006 11:26:58 AM EDT
[#4]

Quoted:
i've never been deployed but i saw lots of guys that had been with aftermarket vests like blackhawk and various subloads at rifle qual at ft. lewis this september. i wouldnt think it would be conducive to precision shooting but there were several there. I guess my unit is cool with it. The attitude seems to be if you are in the field anything is cool, but in garrison you better square your ass away.


Well I have yet to see the tactical tailor garrison gear yet, so I guess thats not to big of an issue
11/16/2006 11:27:09 AM EDT
[#5]
It is up to the COC what you can and can't use. Some of the stuff they shoot down is stupid, some have good reasons not to be used in a combat zone. Like the first under-armor shirts were good for cooling, but melt to your skin in a fire. Not good. What I've experienced is to use what you want, but don't get to crazy with it. We are allowed to set up our gear like we want it, and to carry personaly purchased stuff with us. Just don't show up in hunting Cammo with a 1911 because they are cool. Most of the new stuff they issue works well, and the Rapid Fielding Initiative really works.
11/16/2006 11:27:45 AM EDT
[#6]
my command is good with aftermarket gear also.  except replacing the IBA.  i know alot of parents in the past bought their sons and daughters better (read "different") body armor, thinking it would make them safer and i applaud them for doing so.  but i think  alot of COs would be against that because it puts undue stress and could tear away at the integrity if the unit.  

but for the regular gear, i dont see any big deal and none of my commanders have either.
11/16/2006 11:29:19 AM EDT
[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:
i've never been deployed but i saw lots of guys that had been with aftermarket vests like blackhawk and various subloads at rifle qual at ft. lewis this september. i wouldnt think it would be conducive to precision shooting but there were several there. I guess my unit is cool with it. The attitude seems to be if you are in the field anything is cool, but in garrison you better square your ass away.


Well I have yet to see the tactical tailor garrison gear yet, so I guess thats not to big of an issue



Well i was more referring to wearing shit like camelbacks in garrison, which will get you yelled at bigtime here. But I suspect thats pretty universal.
11/16/2006 11:36:02 AM EDT
[#8]

Quoted:
I see where you are comming from GMW.  Im trying to get a majority perspective here.  Id say that the amount of COCs that disaprove are few.


Safety being the number one factor of course.

I would say that most COC's nowadays in a combat zone would allow their soldiers to use whatever is safe within reason.

If they don't then they are doing their soldiers a huge disservice.

11/16/2006 11:37:34 AM EDT
[#9]
When you guys deploy do they issue you all new gear? Cuz the shit we have is so fucking run down its scary.
11/16/2006 12:00:50 PM EDT
[#10]

Quoted:
When you guys deploy do they issue you all new gear? Cuz the shit we have is so fucking run down its scary.


Ive seen your gear in a picture and it was brand new!!!!  ANd no they dont.  you better start making some trips down to quantico arms!
11/16/2006 12:03:13 PM EDT
[#11]

Quoted:
It is up to the COC what you can and can't use. Some of the stuff they shoot down is stupid, some have good reasons not to be used in a combat zone. Like the first under-armor shirts were good for cooling, but melt to your skin in a fire. Not good. What I've experienced is to use what you want, but don't get to crazy with it. We are allowed to set up our gear like we want it, and to carry personaly purchased stuff with us. Just don't show up in hunting Cammo with a 1911 because they are cool. Most of the new stuff they issue works well, and the Rapid Fielding Initiative really works.


What is the Rapid Fielding Initiative?
11/16/2006 12:03:15 PM EDT
[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:
When you guys deploy do they issue you all new gear? Cuz the shit we have is so fucking run down its scary.


Ive seen your gear in a picture and it was brand new!!!!  ANd no they dont.  you better start making some trips down to quantico arms!


Yes, the ILBE i have is new, but thats about the only thing. I would not feel comfortable at all with the Flak and Kevlar. My kevlar helmet has all sorts of cracks and shit in it from people using it pound in tent stakes and hit the trail locking plug on the howitzers. I just threw a new cover on it for the pics. I'll take some close ups of it if you want. You can't really see them in the picture i psoted without the cover.
11/16/2006 12:13:00 PM EDT
[#13]
Here are my post form the other site.  Tell me if they sound irresponsible... I am in Italics hes in blue


OK Darren,

Heres the straight scoop(USMC).  For the most part, its anything goes.  Your command know your gear sucks and usually encourages Marines to get better stuff, provided it it tactically sound and isnt a replacement for manditory safety gear like eSAPI's.  The rule of thumb is BRING YOUR ISSUED GEAR TOO!!!  As long as you have your issued crap, they wont jump in your ass should your personal gear fail.  In one case there was a Marine who had a 12X scope with built in Night Vision on his M16!!!  No one said anything to him.  Dont bother your command about this, unless there is a question about legality i.e. firearms (no/go).  If youre worried, display it when you do your final deployment inspection and if they ask, just tell them you want to get a leg up on the enemy.  Youll be fine.  I have seen thousands of Marines/soldiers with personal gear


this is where it gets ugly...


"Its been a while since youve gone to the field hasnt it?"

Are you assuming I haven't because I told the poster to err on the side of caution when attempting to purchase replacement gear?  No..... Im asking you if its been a while because the gear your talking about is out of date...  Who still wears Kevlars that take the old foam pad?  They have been phased out.  I have a $180 foam pad set up in my Kevlar and I love it.  It also happens to be safer then the original gear, and came through in a pinch when we would be hit by IEDs.  And BTW camelbacks are manditory now.   I have yet to see a Marine or Soldier on a real world patrol with an LBV and canteens.  Thats why I asked when the last time you went to the field was.


"For the most part, its anything goes."  I still stand by this remark.  Sorry if it went over your head.  But let me put it back into context for you..."For the most part, its anything goes.  Your command know your gear sucks and usually encourages Marines to get better stuff, provided it it tactically sound and isnt a replacement for manditory safety gear like eSAPI's"

This ends all debate about me supposedly telling the original poster to not wear his or her safety gear and losing SGLI benifits.  And BTW that is bogus anyway.  Knew a Marine who got a piece of schrap in the neck and died.  he wasnt wearing his neck protector and his Family got the full $500,000
.

"Dont bother your command about this"  I dont know anybody that would worry about getting a better set of mag pouches, a drop pouch,  High speed boots, tactical gloves, better daypack, high capacity camelbacks, a $300 tactical flashlight, or even a $5,000 dollar scope.  No one would say anything because they know its not made by the lowest bidder and its better.  It also show pride in your job and I would encourage any Marine in my squad to buy what ever made him feel comfortable, again as long at it is tactically sound.  i.e. of a tactical color and made tough.  also not noisy or interfering with normal movement. Notice I said ask your chain of command, which, as I hope you know, starts with a team or squad leader.  (I happen to be an infantry sqaud leader thank you) I did not say take it directly to the command level. BTW, telling a troop that anything goes, and to not bother asking if they will be within regs or not is one of the most irresponsible things I've seen someone post on this forum.  Come on, that is just being dramatic.  This guy could show up head to toe in black hawk gear and all thats going to happen is that fellow Marines/soldiers will tease him as a "gear-queer"  Infact most of the guys want to check it out and see if they might want something similar.  It not like I told him a way to decieve a drug test, or told him to go UA/AWOL.   Keep things in perspective.

"If youre worried, display it when you do your final deployment inspection"

Or ask ahead of time and avoid wasting money on something that is potentially a no-go.   What would be a no-go anyway?  You seem to be an expert on tactcal equipment, so enlighten me...  Better yet, ask your chain of command what is go/no-go and post the list.  This will be interesting.



11/16/2006 12:14:15 PM EDT
[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
When you guys deploy do they issue you all new gear? Cuz the shit we have is so fucking run down its scary.


Ive seen your gear in a picture and it was brand new!!!!  ANd no they dont.  you better start making some trips down to quantico arms!


Yes, the ILBE i have is new, but thats about the only thing. I would not feel comfortable at all with the Flak and Kevlar. My kevlar helmet has all sorts of cracks and shit in it from people using it pound in tent stakes and hit the trail locking plug on the howitzers. I just threw a new cover on it for the pics. I'll take some close ups of it if you want. You can't really see them in the picture i psoted without the cover.


Dude!  Take that shit back man!  Tell them you got issued unservicable gear.
11/16/2006 12:17:11 PM EDT
[#15]

Quoted:
Here are my post form the other site.  Tell me if they sound irresponsible... I am in Italics hes in blue


OK Darren,

Heres the straight scoop(USMC).  For the most part, its anything goes.  Your command know your gear sucks and usually encourages Marines to get better stuff, provided it it tactically sound and isnt a replacement for manditory safety gear like eSAPI's.  The rule of thumb is BRING YOUR ISSUED GEAR TOO!!!  As long as you have your issued crap, they wont jump in your ass should your personal gear fail.  In one case there was a Marine who had a 12X scope with built in Night Vision on his M16!!!  No one said anything to him.  Dont bother your command about this, unless there is a question about legality i.e. firearms (no/go).  If youre worried, display it when you do your final deployment inspection and if they ask, just tell them you want to get a leg up on the enemy.  Youll be fine.  I have seen thousands of Marines/soldiers with personal gear


this is where it gets ugly...


"Its been a while since youve gone to the field hasnt it?"

Are you assuming I haven't because I told the poster to err on the side of caution when attempting to purchase replacement gear?  No..... Im asking you if its been a while because the gear your talking about is out of date...  Who still wears Kevlars that take the old foam pad?  They have been phased out.  I have a $180 foam pad set up in my Kevlar and I love it.  It also happens to be safer then the original gear, and came through in a pinch when we would be hit by IEDs.  And BTW camelbacks are manditory now.   I have yet to see a Marine or Soldier on a real world patrol with an LBV and canteens.  Thats why I asked when the last time you went to the field was.


"For the most part, its anything goes."  I still stand by this remark.  Sorry if it went over your head.  But let me put it back into context for you..."For the most part, its anything goes.  Your command know your gear sucks and usually encourages Marines to get better stuff, provided it it tactically sound and isnt a replacement for manditory safety gear like eSAPI's"

This ends all debate about me supposedly telling the original poster to not wear his or her safety gear and losing SGLI benifits.  And BTW that is bogus anyway.  Knew a Marine who got a piece of schrap in the neck and died.  he wasnt wearing his neck protector and his Family got the full $500,000
.

"Dont bother your command about this"  I dont know anybody that would worry about getting a better set of mag pouches, a drop pouch,  High speed boots, tactical gloves, better daypack, high capacity camelbacks, a $300 tactical flashlight, or even a $5,000 dollar scope.  No one would say anything because they know its not made by the lowest bidder and its better.  It also show pride in your job and I would encourage any Marine in my squad to buy what ever made him feel comfortable, again as long at it is tactically sound.  i.e. of a tactical color and made tough.  also not noisy or interfering with normal movement. Notice I said ask your chain of command, which, as I hope you know, starts with a team or squad leader.  (I happen to be an infantry sqaud leader thank you) I did not say take it directly to the command level. BTW, telling a troop that anything goes, and to not bother asking if they will be within regs or not is one of the most irresponsible things I've seen someone post on this forum.  Come on, that is just being dramatic.  This guy could show up head to toe in black hawk gear and all thats going to happen is that fellow Marines/soldiers will tease him as a "gear-queer"  Infact most of the guys want to check it out and see if they might want something similar.  It not like I told him a way to decieve a drug test, or told him to go UA/AWOL.   Keep things in perspective.

"If youre worried, display it when you do your final deployment inspection"

Or ask ahead of time and avoid wasting money on something that is potentially a no-go.   What would be a no-go anyway?  You seem to be an expert on tactcal equipment, so enlighten me...  Better yet, ask your chain of command what is go/no-go and post the list.  This will be interesting.






Doesn't look bad to me. You like to argue a lot huh



Sidenote: If you are talking about tht new Gentex LWH with the new suspension system, we dont have those yet, still have the old one.
11/16/2006 12:20:32 PM EDT
[#16]

Quoted:

Doesn't look bad to me.



Sidenote: If you are talking about tht new Gentex LWH with the new suspension system, we dont have those yet, still have the old one.


Wow...  Its not exactly new ya know.  Good ol dirt poor Corps....
11/16/2006 12:33:42 PM EDT
[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Doesn't look bad to me.



Sidenote: If you are talking about tht new Gentex LWH with the new suspension system, we dont have those yet, still have the old one.


Wow...  Its not exactly new ya know.  Good ol dirt poor Corps....



Wait I thought that lightweight helmet was some new shit, it's been around for a while? LOL.  I keep seeing them on ebay for like 65 dollars but i have refrained from buying one cuz its probably stolen. I saw  one sell on arfcom for like $150.

I didn't find the cracks until I took the cover off when I got home, and I just keep forgetting to take it back to supply.
11/16/2006 12:38:15 PM EDT
[#18]

Quoted:

What is the Rapid Fielding Initiative?



since you are in the Marines and i can relate to how you are thinking right now.  the Soldier doesnt always get issued what they NEED right when they report to a new command.  basically its what the Army calls mission essential gear.  some of it is pretty good, some things i just dont NEED.  like the MITCH helmet, compared to the Kevlar.  i love my MITCH!

just google, you can find tons of information about it, if you really want to.
11/16/2006 4:52:31 PM EDT
[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It is up to the COC what you can and can't use. Some of the stuff they shoot down is stupid, some have good reasons not to be used in a combat zone. Like the first under-armor shirts were good for cooling, but melt to your skin in a fire. Not good. What I've experienced is to use what you want, but don't get to crazy with it. We are allowed to set up our gear like we want it, and to carry personaly purchased stuff with us. Just don't show up in hunting Cammo with a 1911 because they are cool. Most of the new stuff they issue works well, and the Rapid Fielding Initiative really works.


What is the Rapid Fielding Initiative?


The RFI is a way to get what people need to them quickly (quickly for the military anyway).  It bypasses the typical process for buying and issuing euipment.  A lot of stuff gets issued directly to the soldier instead of going through the unit supply chain.  It also gets the off the shelf stuff to soldiers faster by skipping some of the beaurocratic stuff that slows it down.  Instead of somebody making up the requirements and having companies submit their versions, then testing, and arguing, and resubmitting, etc, the general requirements are established, then whatever is found already on the commercial market that meets those requirments is bought.