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Site News Could You Have Stopped This? Vegas Shooting Analysis with Attorneys on Retainer
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9/25/2006 5:38:30 PM EDT
i spent today pulling some of it and i found out the powder charge varies from 20grns to 33grns of powder in a compressed charge
9/25/2006 5:41:15 PM EDT
[#1]

Quoted:
i spent today pulling some of it and i found out the powder charge varies from 20grns to 33grns of powder in a compressed charge


Has anyone here chrono'd it?
9/25/2006 5:43:11 PM EDT
[#2]
we were getting 3200+ out of my 14.5 1/7 with a phantom when it first was at the wac show, but since the explosion im just gonna pull it for components.
9/25/2006 5:46:52 PM EDT
[#3]
(with no studying-I've never handloaded for the .223) that sounds like it should have run at least a few hundred FPS deviation, especially in longer barrels.
9/25/2006 5:51:41 PM EDT
[#4]
i wasnt personally doing the test, but my rifle was used Ask strat for the exacts
9/25/2006 5:55:36 PM EDT
[#5]
The best I got out of it was about 3100.
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=15&t=240257
9/25/2006 6:03:13 PM EDT
[#6]
That could explain the explosions.
9/25/2006 6:05:34 PM EDT
[#7]

Quoted:
The best I got out of it was about 3100.
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=15&t=240257


I was getting consistant 3200 + out of a 20 inch Colt Bull barrel A2,

I ran 20 rounds through Hoot's 14.5 CMMG with heavy bolt and buffer with no signs of trouble, since then an after a lot more rounds the CMMG with heavy bolt and buffer is showing serious over-pressure signs on the spent cases.

With over 13 grains variance it is no surprise guns are blowing up, I can load 15 grains of Longshot in the 460 and have no problems but just three tenths of a grain over 15grains and I lose primers abd stretch primer pockets.

3/10 of a grain can do damage it is no wonder that 13 complete grains is blowing rifles up.
9/25/2006 6:15:14 PM EDT
[#8]
With a variance that high it should be possible to weigh the entire loaded cartige and determine if it is overweight on powder.

Does anyone have the factory specs on Adcom ?
9/25/2006 6:16:48 PM EDT
[#9]
I don't know much about reloading, but that sounds like a pretty big difference.
9/25/2006 6:17:49 PM EDT
[#10]

Quoted:
I don't know much about reloading, but that sounds like a pretty big difference.



tooooooo big
9/25/2006 6:37:28 PM EDT
[#11]
I just counted my remaining Adcom, 1175 rounds. I'd like to see some of that pulled and weighed.
9/25/2006 6:38:43 PM EDT
[#12]
I am a bit anal about reloading, If the UAE is using similar powder to the US (WCC844 in the green tip) the charge should weigh about 25gr. I pulled some Radway, LC, and Federal factory just now and all the charges were within 3 tenths. 24gr in the LC 25.5 in the Radway (93) and 24gr in the Federal. Would like to see the powder out of the ADCOM though.
9/25/2006 6:39:37 PM EDT
[#13]

Quoted:
I just counted my remaining Adcom, 1175 rounds. I'd like to see some of that pulled and weighed.


I will pull all you like, I live in south seattle.
9/25/2006 6:39:55 PM EDT
[#14]
I am buying up all that defective ADCOM for $0.02 a round.
9/25/2006 6:59:07 PM EDT
[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't know much about reloading, but that sounds like a pretty big difference.



tooooooo big


I reload my match ammo, and yes for a case that size that is a HUGE difference!
9/25/2006 7:20:44 PM EDT
[#16]
i will get you the weights of the powder charges
9/26/2006 3:34:10 AM EDT
[#17]
Hoot, I have about 300 rounds left.  I'll be sure to bring them over when I can.
9/26/2006 6:53:33 AM EDT
[#18]
gettnlwr came by lastnight and he was saying the other day he broke a bolt carrier in half with the adcom
9/26/2006 7:31:40 AM EDT
[#19]
It is a Middle East plot to get all of us EBR owners to break our rifles before they invade.


I already have started pulling mine for the projectile, I only have to pull around 400, Im not sure it is worth keeping the brass yet.

Im still willing to use ADCOM but Im not going for this 99 stuff any longer. If I knew what the heck I was doing, I would almost just reload it with something a little less hot.
9/26/2006 7:31:40 AM EDT
[#20]

Quoted:
I am a bit anal about reloading, If the UAE is using similar powder to the US (WCC844 in the green tip) the charge should weigh about 25gr. I pulled some Radway, LC, and Federal factory just now and all the charges were within 3 tenths. 24gr in the LC 25.5 in the Radway (93) and 24gr in the Federal. Would like to see the powder out of the ADCOM though.



Yep...I load 24.5 of Winchester 748 for my 55gr/M193 bullets.

That's a waaaaay out of spec variance. Did anyone (Hoot?) check to see what the volumetric difference was?
9/26/2006 7:36:28 AM EDT
[#21]
Does this cover all years or just 99?
9/26/2006 8:04:33 AM EDT
[#22]
just the 99 lot
9/26/2006 8:08:35 AM EDT
[#23]

Quoted:
just the 99 lot


That would explain why AIM pulled it

Thanks for the good info.
9/26/2006 8:16:33 AM EDT
[#24]
I'd be willing to sacrifice a box of American Eagle .223 to get some QC analysis. Rune blew his up with AE .223.

Something is very wrong these days.
9/26/2006 9:07:02 AM EDT
[#25]
ok if you dont find anyone else im always available
9/26/2006 9:14:56 AM EDT
[#26]

Quoted:
I'd be willing to sacrifice a box of American Eagle .223 to get some QC analysis. Rune blew his up with AE .223.

Something is very wrong these days.


No, that is false. I believe someone is trying to pull the wool over someone's eyes for warranty work.  
9/26/2006 9:19:18 AM EDT
[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'd be willing to sacrifice a box of American Eagle .223 to get some QC analysis. Rune blew his up with AE .223.

Something is very wrong these days.


No, that is false. I believe someone is trying to pull the wool over someone's eyes for warranty work.  



I agree, and to requote Bunny...

Something is very wrong these days.
9/26/2006 10:27:17 AM EDT
[#28]
I would have to wonder if their QC problems might be related to sabatage. They might have some jihad towel head loading double charges at the factory. I would stay completely the hell away from muslim ammo.
9/26/2006 10:35:20 AM EDT
[#29]

Quoted:
i spent today pulling some of it and i found out the powder charge varies from 20grns to 33grns of powder in a compressed charge


Which powder?  Could it be 20 grains of 1 type,   and 33 grains of another?

Ammo manufacturers do vary powder from lot to lot.
9/26/2006 4:44:16 PM EDT
[#30]
DaBunny (and whoever else cares) I just pulled 20 AE 223 lot 1 47 R517 they are 55gr boattail. The powder looked like WC760 but you can't tell without a lab. Ever round was within .2 of a grain. All but 3 were 26.1 two were 26.3 and one was 26.2. Shoot that AE don't pull it!
9/26/2006 5:12:53 PM EDT
[#31]
What's INTERESTING is that someone here convinced me to fire a box through my rifle to see if it would work.
9/26/2006 5:19:02 PM EDT
[#32]

Quoted:
What's INTERESTING is that someone here convinced me to fire a box through my rifle to see if it would work.


When I was in the Army, it was understood that the Jr soldiers would be the first to take off their gas mask after a chemical attack.  Must be the same type of training.
9/26/2006 5:22:21 PM EDT
[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
What's INTERESTING is that someone here convinced me to fire a box through my rifle to see if it would work.


When I was in the Army, it was understood that the Jr soldiers would be the first to take off their gas mask after a chemical attack.  Must be the same type of training.




Yup.  The most junior soldier in the company is supposed to test the air after a chemical attack.
9/26/2006 5:40:46 PM EDT
[#34]
thats before it blew guns up we knew it popped primers
9/26/2006 6:25:26 PM EDT
[#35]

Quoted:
thats before it blew guns up we knew it popped primers


Yeah, I know. I was just giving you shit.
9/26/2006 7:15:02 PM EDT
[#36]

Quoted:
thats before it blew guns up we knew it popped primers


I had a case of the 99 that did that, one of the primers locked up my rifle on an practical pistol rifle side match.  I guess I'm lucky it didn't blow up my rifle.
9/27/2006 8:54:51 AM EDT
[#37]
Maybe it's just a case of Mohamed Mohamed Mustafa Mohamed not knowing his powder charges
9/27/2006 11:14:56 AM EDT
[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
What's INTERESTING is that someone here convinced me to fire a box through my rifle to see if it would work.


When I was in the Army, it was understood that the Jr soldiers would be the first to take off their gas mask after a chemical attack.  Must be the same type of training.


Hmmmm, when I was in Army, it was understood that the soldier least critical to accomplishing the mission at hand would be the first remove their NBC gear after an attack. Be it an officer, NCO, or private.
9/27/2006 11:18:45 AM EDT
[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
What's INTERESTING is that someone here convinced me to fire a box through my rifle to see if it would work.


When I was in the Army, it was understood that the Jr soldiers would be the first to take off their gas mask after a chemical attack.  Must be the same type of training.


Hmmmm, when I was in Army, it was understood that the soldier least critical to accomplishing the mission at hand would be the first remove their NBC gear after an attack. Be it an officer, NCO, or private.


Still that way today, if the Squad leader doesn't have a job to do, he's least critical, or in other words, that squad leader suddenly takes a gun over and the PFC gunner without a job becomes the least critical.
9/27/2006 12:10:35 PM EDT
[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
What's INTERESTING is that someone here convinced me to fire a box through my rifle to see if it would work.


When I was in the Army, it was understood that the Jr soldiers would be the first to take off their gas mask after a chemical attack.  Must be the same type of training.


Hmmmm, when I was in Army, it was understood that the soldier least critical to accomplishing the mission at hand would be the first remove their NBC gear after an attack. Be it an officer, NCO, or private.


Still that way today, if the Squad leader doesn't have a job to do, he's least critical, or in other words, that squad leader suddenly takes a gun over and the PFC gunner without a job becomes the least critical.


Why dont you guys just come out and say it...


Fuck the MEDIC...
9/27/2006 2:21:41 PM EDT
[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
What's INTERESTING is that someone here convinced me to fire a box through my rifle to see if it would work.


When I was in the Army, it was understood that the Jr soldiers would be the first to take off their gas mask after a chemical attack.  Must be the same type of training.


Hmmmm, when I was in Army, it was understood that the soldier least critical to accomplishing the mission at hand would be the first remove their NBC gear after an attack. Be it an officer, NCO, or private.


Still that way today, if the Squad leader doesn't have a job to do, he's least critical, or in other words, that squad leader suddenly takes a gun over and the PFC gunner without a job becomes the least critical.


Why dont you guys just come out and say it...


Fuck the MEDIC...


Only if the sheep died....
9/27/2006 2:56:11 PM EDT
[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
What's INTERESTING is that someone here convinced me to fire a box through my rifle to see if it would work.


When I was in the Army, it was understood that the Jr soldiers would be the first to take off their gas mask after a chemical attack.  Must be the same type of training.


Hmmmm, when I was in Army, it was understood that the soldier least critical to accomplishing the mission at hand would be the first remove their NBC gear after an attack. Be it an officer, NCO, or private.


Still that way today, if the Squad leader doesn't have a job to do, he's least critical, or in other words, that squad leader suddenly takes a gun over and the PFC gunner without a job becomes the least critical.


Why dont you guys just come out and say it...


Fuck the MEDIC...


Depends on what type of chemical was used during the attack, some stuff itches.
9/27/2006 4:26:46 PM EDT
[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:
just the 99 lot


That would explain why AIM pulled it

Thanks for the good info.


Was there an official recall of the 99 lots by AIM?  I've got a bunch of it sitting around for SHTF stocks.

-Frank
9/27/2006 10:55:20 PM EDT
[#44]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
just the 99 lot


That would explain why AIM pulled it

Thanks for the good info.


Was there an official recall of the 99 lots by AIM?  I've got a bunch of it sitting around for SHTF stocks.

-Frank


Sounds like good SHTF bartering material.
10/30/2006 7:29:04 PM EDT
[#45]

Quoted:
i spent today pulling some of it and i found out the powder charge varies from 20grns to 33grns of powder in a compressed charge


I dont mean to call bullshit.....

But please.  20gr wont cycle the weapon and 33gr will absolutely blow it up.  With thousands of member here shooting this stuff (albeit know problems) this just sounds like an exaggeration to me.
10/30/2006 7:32:50 PM EDT
[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:
i spent today pulling some of it and i found out the powder charge varies from 20grns to 33grns of powder in a compressed charge


I dont mean to call bullshit.....

But please.  20gr wont cycle the weapon and 33gr will absolutely blow it up.  With thousands of member here shooting this stuff (albeit know problems) this just sounds like an exaggeration to me.


It is worse than it sounds, on the overcharge powder weights, you can not get the powder back in the case without a compressed powder charge die.

Little wonder three rifles that I know of here locally have exploded damaging the reciever and bolt.
10/30/2006 7:36:52 PM EDT
[#47]

Quoted:
It is worse than it sounds, on the overcharge powder weights, you can not get the powder back in the case without a compressed powder charge die.

Little wonder three rifles that I know of here locally have exploded damaging the reciever and bolt.



So you have seen this firsthand - personally weighing the charge and it having 33gr of powder?????
10/30/2006 7:46:32 PM EDT
[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It is worse than it sounds, on the overcharge powder weights, you can not get the powder back in the case without a compressed powder charge die.

Little wonder three rifles that I know of here locally have exploded damaging the reciever and bolt.



So you have seen this firsthand - personally weighing the charge and it having 33gr of powder?????



Hoot used my equipment to pull the bullets and weigh the cases and powder charges.

Yes I have seen this first hand as well as the damaged rifles from extreme over-pressure.
10/30/2006 7:50:22 PM EDT
[#49]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It is worse than it sounds, on the overcharge powder weights, you can not get the powder back in the case without a compressed powder charge die.

Little wonder three rifles that I know of here locally have exploded damaging the reciever and bolt.



So you have seen this firsthand - personally weighing the charge and it having 33gr of powder?????




spent today pulling some of it and i found out the powder charge varies from 20grns to 33grns of powder in a compressed charge


First post you dumb Texan!

10/30/2006 7:56:45 PM EDT
[#50]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
It is worse than it sounds, on the overcharge powder weights, you can not get the powder back in the case without a compressed powder charge die.

Little wonder three rifles that I know of here locally have exploded damaging the reciever and bolt.



So you have seen this firsthand - personally weighing the charge and it having 33gr of powder?????




spent today pulling some of it and i found out the powder charge varies from 20grns to 33grns of powder in a compressed charge


First post you dumb Texan!



I asked "STRATIOTES" if HE had seen it firsthand.  The first post was by another guy.  I knew you Washingtonians were dense.... but man, you set the bar.  



I edited my post in the other thread on this.  I still find that information VERY hard to believe..... but if that's true.... good LORD you couldnt give me that stuff, and I am flabbergasted to wonder how more of our members dont  have massivle blown up rifles given the QTY's of this stuff that are regularly shot.
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