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Site News Could You Have Stopped This? Vegas Shooting Analysis with Attorneys on Retainer
4/29/2006 11:22:20 AM EDT
I just want to clarify, since I just read a topic about some guy who was 18 and is getting a handgun in WA on here.

You have to be 21 to have a handgun, period, right?  You can go shoot it, but it has to be with a person over 21 years of age.  And you can't "private sale" it to a <21 year old either, can you?

That's the way I interpreted the laws anyway, can you all clarify?  Thanks.
4/29/2006 11:43:10 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
I just want to clarify, since I just read a topic about some guy who was 18 and is getting a handgun in WA on here.

You have to be 21 to have a handgun, period, right? No


You can go shoot it, but it has to be with a person over 21 years of age. There is no such requirement

And you can't "private sale" it to a <21 year old either, can you? You can

That's the way I interpreted the laws anyway, can you all clarify?  Thanks.


Relevant RCWs

RCW 9.41.042
Children — Permissible firearm possession.

RCW 9.41.240
Possession of pistol by person from eighteen to twenty-one.


RCW 9.41.080
Delivery to ineligible persons.
+
RCW 9.41.040
Unlawful possession of firearms — Ownership, possession by certain persons — Penalties.

Edited to correct an omission and a copy and paste error.
4/29/2006 2:23:47 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I just want to clarify, since I just read a topic about some guy who was 18 and is getting a handgun in WA on here.

You have to be 21 to have a handgun, period, right? No


You can go shoot it, but it has to be with a person over 21 years of age. There is no such requirement

And you can't "private sale" it to a <21 year old either, can you? You can

That's the way I interpreted the laws anyway, can you all clarify?  Thanks.


Relevant RCWs

RCW 9.41.042
Children — Permissible firearm possession.

RCW 9.41.040
Unlawful possession of firearms — Ownership, possession by certain persons — Penalties.
+
RCW 9.41.040
Unlawful possession of firearms — Ownership, possession by certain persons — Penalties.


To reiterate what Phil said

In this state you cannot purchase a handgun from a dealer between 18-20yrs old.  However, you can have an immediate family member like a parent or guardian buy it directly from the dealer and gift it to you - legally. When it comes to private sales of any legal firearm in this state the age limit is 18. So as far as the pistol is concerned you can have it in your possession between 18-20 but you cannot drive around with it loaded, nor can you carry it on your person.  I use that term loosely because at home or work (with permission from the boss) you can carry it loaded concealed or otherwise.  

You can go to the range at 18 by yourself with a pistol and shoot it.  It is legal.   HOWEVER, a lot of places with the booths do not allow people under 21 - their perogative.  Out in the woods who cares?
As far as the age requirement goes for people under 18, you must be in the presence of someone 18 or older to shoot or possess it.

I had a .40 HK USP  when I was 18.  I ended up selling it to an LEO in Everson without any problems at all.


-Rob
4/29/2006 4:25:37 PM EDT
[#3]
Thanks for the clarification guys.  Think I got it now.  
When you're out shooting it in the woods however, if you encountered a LEO (someone called on the gunshots, etc.) wouldn't you be asked for your CCP?
4/29/2006 4:43:45 PM EDT
[#4]
Two to the chest and one to the head.  Rules to live by.
4/29/2006 4:55:43 PM EDT
[#5]
You're out engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity with your hanguns not being carried concealed on his or her person, a CPL would not be an issue.  It is after all a concealed pistol license not a just to have in your posession a handgun license.
4/29/2006 6:05:02 PM EDT
[#6]
Phil,

Any clarification on carrying while say, back packing or hiking? Open, concealed, whatever? Assuming concealed is probably a no-no...Thanks

ETA: Thanks for clarifying the bit on ownership and purchasing, seemed cloudy to me.
4/29/2006 6:23:57 PM EDT
[#7]
RCW 9.41.050
Carrying firearms
+
RCW 9.41.060
Exceptions to restrictions on carrying firearms.

However Take note of
RCW 9.41.270
Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm -- Unlawful carrying or handling -- Penalty -- Exceptions.

RCW 9.41.050
Carrying firearms.


(1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.

    (b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so. Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction.

    (2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

    (b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

    (3)(a) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

    (b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

    (4) Nothing in this section permits the possession of firearms illegal to possess under state or federal law.



RCW 9.41.060
Exceptions to restrictions on carrying firearms.

The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 shall not apply to:

(1) Marshals, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens or their deputies, or other law enforcement officers of this state or another state;

(2) Members of the armed forces of the United States or of the national guard or organized reserves, when on duty;

(3) Officers or employees of the United States duly authorized to carry a concealed pistol;

(4) Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of the person, if possessing, using, or carrying a pistol in the usual or ordinary course of the business;

(5) Regularly enrolled members of any organization duly authorized to purchase or receive pistols from the United States or from this state;

(6) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of target shooting, when those members are at or are going to or from their places of target practice;

(7) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of modern and antique firearm collecting, when those members are at or are going to or from their collector's gun shows and exhibits;

(8) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;

(9) Any person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a closed opaque case or secure wrapper; or

(10) Law enforcement officers retired for service or physical disabilities, except for those law enforcement officers retired because of mental or stress-related disabilities. This subsection applies only to a retired officer who has: (a) Obtained documentation from a law enforcement agency within Washington state from which he or she retired that is signed by the agency's chief law enforcement officer and that states that the retired officer was retired for service or physical disability; and (b) not been convicted or found not guilty by reason of insanity of a crime making him or her ineligible for a concealed pistol license.



CW 9.41.270
Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm -- Unlawful carrying or handling -- Penalty -- Exceptions.

(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

(2) Any person violating the provisions of subsection (1) above shall be guilty of a gross misdemeanor. If any person is convicted of a violation of subsection (1) of this section, the person shall lose his or her concealed pistol license, if any. The court shall send notice of the revocation to the department of licensing, and the city, town, or county which issued the license.

(3) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to or affect the following:

(a) Any act committed by a person while in his or her place of abode or fixed place of business;

(b) Any person who by virtue of his or her office or public employment is vested by law with a duty to preserve public safety, maintain public order, or to make arrests for offenses, while in the performance of such duty;

(c) Any person acting for the purpose of protecting himself or herself against the use of presently threatened unlawful force by another, or for the purpose of protecting another against the use of such unlawful force by a third person;

(d) Any person making or assisting in making a lawful arrest for the commission of a felony; or

(e) Any person engaged in military activities sponsored by the federal or state governments.
4/29/2006 7:08:21 PM EDT
[#8]
So if you're under 21 and have a pistol you can carry it in your car, but only unloaded, and have to lock it up once you leave your car, thats legal?

And if you're camping or whatever, want protection from bears, its legal?
4/29/2006 10:57:16 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
So if you're under 21 and have a pistol you can carry it in your car, but only unloaded, and have to lock it up once you leave your car, thats legal?

And if you're camping or whatever, want protection from bears, its legal?



Not that I'd ever piss off a bear by shooting my pistol at it...but yes.  Locked container is like a trunk or someplace inaccessible to you WHILE you're driving. That's the general rule of thumb. If you have a CPL you can have it duct taped to your forehead while you're driving (inside your car is considered concealed)...

(3)(a) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.


The pistol doesn't need to be in a seperate lockable container...the car is the locked container.  So for you to be stowing it legally while you're away from your vehicle - car must be locked and the firearm must be hidden from view.

A long arm you cannot carry loaded and concealed with a CPL. However, loaded does not mean shells close by, nor does it mean shells inserted into a magazine mounted 1" away from the receiver.  Loaded means shells IN the firearm.  So a long arm mount for your AR15 in your trunk with 12 loaded mags right next to it...100% legal.

-Rob
4/30/2006 1:24:40 PM EDT
[#10]
Thanks Phil Havn't run into problems with the forest service in Gifford Pinchot, but they don't pay attention to guns it seems..
4/30/2006 3:33:02 PM EDT
[#11]
I had a 1911 when I was 18 and always had it in my truck unloaded with loaded mags. The mags loaded did come up questionable one time with Tacoma police, this was 15 years ago.
4/30/2006 4:49:14 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
When you're out shooting it in the woods however, if you encountered a LEO (someone called on the gunshots, etc.) wouldn't you be asked for your CCP?



No, but then again, I don't ask for a CCW/CPL any time.  I don't remember anything in the constitution that says to go get a CCW.
4/30/2006 11:02:16 PM EDT
[#13]
Me either but have to play it so safe nowadays with all the anti-gun propaganda being pushed.  Thanks for the clarification guys.  With laws that sometimes cross over each other for allowances and stuff, it's good to get things sorted out straight on matters like this
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