Posted: 1/2/2005 12:03:36 AM EDT
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Ok, i'm 20, but this neighborhood i'm living in at college is getting to me (chester, PA) Between the gunshots outside my apartment and my roommate almost getting mugged, i'm feeling a little less than safe going around unarmed as per state law. Now, although i don't consider carrying illegally morally wrong as self-defence is a god-given right, i am a habitual obeyer of the law...but i love finding loopholes. It crossed my mind that NH has full reciprocity with PA, has a minimum carry permit age of 18 and they have non-resident permits (which are valid in PA). The only problem is that I can't apply for a non-resident permit in NH without having a permit from another state, however, this does not have to be from your home state (NJ residents can get a NH permit with a florida permit). So, i need to find a state that will issue me a CWP at age 18. I'm thinking Maine. So, for $80 i can carry in a good portion of the country at age 20...i think. So, any lawyers on this board? |
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From the NJ section of www.Packing.org RESIDENTS: Apply at local Police/No local PD or for armored car employment, see State Police NON-RESIDENTS: Must apply at NJ State Police Barracks(No roadways: Parkway or Turnpike) Notes: 1) Issuance of the permit is almost completely discretionary, and New Jersey courts have upheld the policy of strictly limiting permits ``to persons specifically employed in security work . . . and to others who can establish an urgent necessity for carrying guns for self-protection". While NJ does issue non resident permits, few are allowed, and they are harder to obtain than a resident permit. 2) As of 12-30-03 there are a little over 3000 permits issued in a state of 8 million people. Most are held by retired law enforcement officers. (source NJSP) 3)You must be 21 to apply for a Concealed carry permit. 4)By statute, retired police officers (must have served in NJ Dept.), and retired federal officers are entitled to shall issue unrestricted permits, they apply through the NJSP. You have a better chance of hitting the Power Ball lottery then getting a CCW from NJ. |
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I think PA law would take not allow you to carry even if you got a premit from NH. Pa law is clear in the respect that persons under 21 are not entiltled to carry a firearm. Federal law also states that a person must be 21 to legaly buy handguns. In Pa you have to register your handguns. I think there could be a hassle about having a handgun under 21 in your possession with or without a carry permit. John |
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PGM, Why is it that the state requires transfer thru an FFL or sheriffs dept for private sale of handguns??? I really am curious as I do them all day long at my store? . Maybe I am wrong, but Harrisburg has required that I have buyers and transfers fill out the PA white form since I have been in business(1993.) If you think the State of Pa does not keep records of handgun sales or transfers, you are really mistaken John Seneca Arms Co Inc. |
John, You are correct in both posts. This guy needs to understand that it is a FEDERAL law that he needs to be 21 years old to own a handgun. Maybe he is going to conceal a long gun, but then that would take a REALLY BIG sweater! Todd |
You guys don't know the law in the least. According to federal law you must be 18 to possess a handgun, 21 to purchace from a federally licenced dealer. I recieved all of my handguns as gifts or purchaced from a third party used. I have a letter from the attornet general of PA stating that what i have done is completely legal.
Wrong on all counts.
PA law states that a person must be 21 to apply for a permit, it says nothing about being entitled to carry.
It says nothing about being 21 to carry concealed. Obviously an 18yo from new hampshire could carry in PA. There are also no records on father-son transfers. If my dad gives me a handgun as a gift, there is no paperwork. So, since he's completely wrong (there was no truth in any of his statements), that makes republican man look like a jackass. Amazing. Keep your dimwitted opinions to yourself. So lets see, two FFL's have already stated their ignorance of the law. You'd think that basic knoledge of gun laws would be a requirement for selling guns. Just how the hell do you come across this information? Because it's obviously not from reading the law. Let me guess, you overheared some cop say something? Because we all know a GED and a badge makes your knoledge of the law just one step above the attorney general. Just like $300 and an application to the BATF puts you a notch above chief justice of the supreme court.
Aren't you from new york? Either way, you have the only reasonable comment so far. Yes, that indeed would work, although it does not answer the question. |
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My point is made. And it's knowledge there college boy. I find it truly interesting that you'll use your keyboard to insult people, and yet won't identify yourself when you participate in events such as the gatherings that Jamie organizes......is the reason for that shyness or fear of what would happen to you if those you castigate and talk down to were to have the opportunity to set you straight in person? You really need to grow up and lose the attitude, someone might just knock it out of you one day if you don't. |
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Soda, You are correct that a father can hand a handgun over without a transfer. It is one of the only exceptions in Pa law. I can assure you that if you get caught with one of your dad's guns on your hip as a minor you will experience Pa law in a most unfriendly way. The state of PA does not offer "full faith and Credit" with all aspects of out of state carry permits. You still have to meet basic PA requirements to carry a handgun as far as I can tell. So if you want give it a try. You are also right that federal law allows ownership(not purchase) at 18. I think Pa law makes an allowance for minors to have a hangun on them while hunting, but otherwise I do not know of any legal way. Look, it is your future. If you would like to chance the felony by all means go ahead. The whole argument of gun rights wont matter much then as you will not have any left. If you are serious about this, call the Pa State Police and have them give you somthing in writing. BTW soda, This dimwitt has a BS from Temple U. and i got it while you were still putting stink in your diapers. John |
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Quoted: You guys don't know the law in the least. According to federal law you must be 18 to possess a handgun, 21 to purchace from a federally licenced dealer. I recieved all of my handguns as gifts or purchaced from a third party used. I have a letter from the attornet general of PA stating that what i have done is completely legal. quote] Getting handguns as a gift from a 3rd party still requires PA white form transfer unless it is from a parent. In fact under any other circumstances it could be viewed as a "straw purchase". |
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on the issue of transfers. This comes right from the code. Pa Title 18: Crimes and Offenses. Chapter 61 Firearms and other dangerous weapons. Subchapter A. Pa Uniform firearms act. Sub section 6111. (c) Duty of other persons.--Any person who is not a licensed importer, manufacturer or dealer and who desires to sell or transfer a firearm to another unlicensed person shall do so only upon the place of business of a licensed importer, manufacturer, dealer or county sheriff's office, the latter of whom shall follow the procedure set forth in this section as if he were the seller of the firearm. The provisions of this section shall not apply to transfers between spouses or to transfers between a parent and child or to transfers between grandparent and grandchild. The term "firearm" in PA code has been used to mean handguns for years. In the pre brady bill days long guns were not regulated at all under PA law(though the GCA68 law always was effective and took precedent to state law) So the verbage is a little vague but does NOT include long guns in the code for private transfer. John Seneca Arms Co inc |
I'm not getting any information here besides false information and stuff i already know. The police department is not an athority on legal matters. It is not their job to interpret law, simply to inforce it, sometimes incorrectly. My college does not allow guns on campus, which is why they'll never know when i do start carrying. Frankly i'm not even allowed to have the pepper spray i currently carry inside campus buildings.
Who is Jamie and what gatherings? I'm all up for a joining some local guys at a shoot and your empty threats don't phase me in the least. Though i do find it somewhat frightening that a person who would threaten violence over i disagreement on the internet owns guns.
You are absolutely correct. Good thing a minor is someone under 18 (as defined by law), not 21. I could open carry today if i wanted to. Unfortunately, since my college does not allow guns on campus, this does not solve my problem. I'm not trying to "chance a felony" here. I got a letter from the attorney general for recieving my handguns and i fully intend to get a letter if i was trying to find a loophole in the concealed carry laws. And i wasn't calling you a dimwit, i was calling republican man a dimwit. At least you had the courage to admit you were wrong in your first post.
Most of my handguns i recieved as gifts from my father. the one i didn't i purchaced from a lawyer. This was the lawyers carry gun for 3 years and he decided to replace it with a different gun. It was tranferred face to face by an FFL. Let me tell you now, it was a pain in the ass to find an FFL to do the transfer because most FFL's are ignorant of the fact that a third party can sell a handgun to someone under 21. The seller was frustrated as shit because these FFL's wouldn't even listen to a lawyer holding a copy of the law. This is hardly a straw purchace.
I don't have all the answers, i'm still looking for an answer to my first question. I do however have all the answers to the rest of the completely unrelated bullshit that was brought up here as i have investegated it thoroughly in the past. |
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clubsoda22- I've returned to school; currently a grad student at Temple. Here is the best advice for the time being IMO: Move off campus! If you can't even carry pepper spray, come on... In your off-campus home you can be well armed and hopefully feel a little more secure. Get to know your neighbors and if you are humble and respectful, they will look out for you. Hey, they can even be your references for when you apply for a license to carry when you turn 21. I can and do carry legally. But I suggest you consider the advice; I live in North Philly and it isn't pretty. Having neighbors that watch my back because I've shown them courtesy and respect may well protect me just as much as the Kimber on my hip. |
I find that extremely unlikely but that's neither here nor there. I don't believe I, or anyone else for that matter, threatened you with any violence. I merely pointed out that I find it amusing that you refuse to identify yourself when you come to the events that you have come to at Water and Wings. I would put good money out that you wouldn't call myself, or anyone else, a "dimwit" or talk down to us in person as you do on your keyboard. That isn't a threat kiddo, it's an observation and an opinion. More germane to this thread however is the simple fact that your question was answered repeatedly and, much as you do on every other gun forum you frequent, you chose to argue with the responses given to you because they don't fit your narrowminded view of how things should be. I personally hope like hell that you do get caught carrying your pistol when you shouldn't be.....I'd laugh my ass off, in your face if I could, because an arrogant little shit like you isn't deserving of respect or sympathy. We meet every Sunday at Water and Wings, feel free to join us any time you'd like...but I'd check the chip on your shoulder at the front gate as I doubt you'd like the reception you'd receive otherwise. ETA: Spelling is a fairly fundamental requirement for graduation from most high schools and colleges, you may want to work on yours a bit. |
Well Amigo, when ya start running around spouting off as if you're somehow superior to the rest of us I'll critique your spelling as well.....but until then...get back in your cave and build some more ARs for us. 
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I've been to water & wings twice, once for a meet with The High Road and once on my own. I haven't gone back since they increased their prices 100%. At that particular high road meet everyone knew who I was and no one had a problem with me. My question has not been answered, despite your insistance that it has, no one has offered a legal reason why this is not possible or if it is indeed a loophole. I've said time and time again that i obey the law religiously, yet you say you hope i get caught carrying illegally. I don't like the implication that i am a criminal so go fuck yourself. I don't pretend to be better than anyone, that's your assumption. If you're blatantly wrong (as so many people in theis thread were) i'll tell you and back it up. If i'm wrong, i'll accept it. But i never claim to be right without having facts on my side. |
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You're worse than a criminal, you're a moron. And first you claim that you don't go / haven't gone to any gatherings and then you post about the very gathering I spoke of, the one that Jamie organized. You can't even get your lies straight anymore kiddo. Just make sure you do whatever idiotic thing it is that you'll eventually end up doing, and take yourself out of the gene pool before you breed....the world in general, and Philly in particular, has enough morons to last us a lifetime. If you obey the law so religiously then why are you carrying a substance on school property which violates the policy set forth by that school? If you obey the law so religiously then why are you actively seeking a way around the PA law that prohibits you from applying for and receiving a CCW permit? The only thing you do do religiously is make yourself look more and more like an asshat with each post. |
I never hid my identity at that gathering. And i'm sorry i don't remember who Jamie is. It was nearly a year ago. I also never said i didn't go to any gatherings, i asked you what gatherings and who you were referring to. I can't keep my lies straight? What lies? If anything you can't keep your bullshit straight. School policy is not law. Last time i looked acedemic probation doesn't go on your criminal record. If there is a loophole in the CCW law, then by exploiting it i haven't broken it. Are the people in IL who use fanny pack carry breaking the law? |