Posted: 1/22/2013 8:08:26 PM EDT
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Nasty Nasty Nasty dirty places..... Lately I've been doing a lot of work at the different reservations and they blow my mind on how run down and gross they are. Dogs and children in diapers are playing in the road, there are NO street signs. I was told they are pulled down and then sold for their worth of metal. The ones that are up have been covered in grafitti. The roads are randomly paved and unpaved. Their roofs are held on with old tires. Every other house is burnt down apparently for the insurance money. The speed limit changes every half a mile and no one works. The worst part about them: No guns.... So stupid. There is no sign indicating you are entering or leaving an Indian Reservation so may or may not be breaking the law at any one point in time. Then with my job sometimes I get calls at random and 99% of my work isn't on the reservation and I like to have a gun with me at all times so if I get a call to work on the reservation I can't just stop my day to bury my gun on the side of the road before I enter the res...... Reservation cops will rape dat ass apparently if they catch you doing anything wrong and this is from word of mouth but supposedly they can search without warrant? My tax dollars hard at work to create an environment of crime, poverty, and learned helplessness all in the name of atoning for the atrocities that someone elses ancestors committed against people that aren't alive today. Someone please explain to me why they still exist because I don't get it. edit: here is a quick pic I snapped and this was nothing compared to some of the stuff I saw.  That's trash all over the yard and a grocery cart leaning against the house. This house was in better shape by far and the level of dirtiness and disrepair is about the norm. |
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It's their property to do with as they please. And stop all the bullshit about your tax money going to the tribes. First off do a little research and educate yourself on the Bureau of Indian Affairs. We tax payers have been stealing from the Indians for hundreds of years. Hell the Government tried to audit the Indian "trust" accounts a few years ago and found billions missing. The Federal government spent their money. What are these Indian trust accounts the Federal government have? They are accounts the Feds deposit Indian money into. The Feds then "handle"that money for the Indians. So say for example a reservation has power lines cross their property. The power company pays for that right, but the money goes into a BIA trust account. The BIA states this is done so the Indians don't get screwed. The sad thing is its the BIA who's doing the screwing.
I don't doubt their isn't one among us who doesn't think we are honest and men of our word. Each and all of us are the government. We, the government, made contracts with the Indians. It doesnt matter those contracts were made before we were born. And yes, we the Government, do renegotiate those contracts all the time. For example, some tribe will need a new sewer plant. They go to the Feds asking for money. The Feds say sure, we'll build your sewer plant. Oh, by the way, that clause in our contract saying you can fish your rivers as much as you want. That goes away if we build the plant. And as far as every other house appearing to be burnt down. Research common Indian death beliefs - abandoning or burning a home after someone dies is common because of a fear of the dead person's spirits hanging around and causing trouble. It ain't always "Jewish lightning" as you mistakenly believed. And it's not just homes - research dead pawn. Sovereign dependent - that's your clue to why reservations exist.. More dependent than sovereign, and that's the way the Feds want it. And before someone says they now have casinos and don't need Federal money. Look at who financed those casinos. It ain't an accident Harrah's ah chin casino begins with the word Harrah's. So stop the Indian bashing. It is wrong in a number of ways. |
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Someone please explain to me why they still exist because I don't If you really want that answer I can give it to you. The answer would be a huge wall of words. I live only a few miles north of you. Whenever you have a few hours let me know. I'll buy the first beer. |
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No one is bashing Indians here Jeff, I'm sorry if it seemed that way. I'm inquiring as to why we finance a breeding grounds for poverty, crime, and Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. One of my best friends is Native American and she NEVER goes to the reservation, she hates it there, thinks it is disgusting, and except for visiting her grandma from time to time she will have nothing to do with it. I actually went to her first with this question and she says horrible leadership and greed is the problem and that she didn't know a real way to fix it. I know this is somewhat a different subject but fundamentally even if they functioned perfectly which they don't even come remotely close to doing. I would still be against them since I don't have my constitutional rights there. I look at reservations like I look at all welfare. Why do they deserve my money more than I do? I'm working 40-50 hours a week right now plus going to school full time and serving in the Army Reserves all in an attempt to better myself. So realistically why do they deserve my money more then me? Don't want me to have a gun in your house? Fine it's your house your rules I respect that, but public right of ways come the fuck on. Also for the record the state of Arizona picked up the tab for all the work I did there. |
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Depends on the Res, and education of the locals. I worked in Kayenta for sometime and have seen a tremendous improvement in 30 years. The Hopi are a well educated upper middle class group. The Pima are rich from Casion work, The ToHoNo have terrible places and realy nice places, the Apache on San Carlos have some terrible wickiups and run down places then as many nice places. MANY Indians like my cousins have moved off the Res and live in nice places that the jobs from their college degrees have made them able to purchase, but they often return to the old places to see grandparents who won't move. BIA waste money, hell yes. Look at how some of the old Navie leaders lived, Peter McDonald, etc.
Oh firearms laws are for non-Indians, sorry. We gotta be able to scalp a few of you for ceremonial purposes only. (I don't I'm only a quarter Chikasaw and never lived with the rest of the family) |
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No one is bashing Indians here Jeff, I'm sorry if it seemed that way. I'm inquiring as to why we finance a breeding grounds for poverty, crime, and Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. One of my best friends is Native American and she NEVER goes to the reservation, she hates it there, thinks it is disgusting, and except for visiting her grandma from time to time she will have nothing to do with it. I actually went to her first with this question and she says horrible leadership and greed is the problem and that she didn't know a real way to fix it. I know this is somewhat a different subject but fundamentally even if they functioned perfectly which they don't even come remotely close to doing. I would still be against them since I don't have my constitutional rights there. I look at reservations like I look at all welfare. Why do they deserve my money more than I do? I'm working 40-50 hours a week right now plus going to school full time and serving in the Army Reserves all in an attempt to better myself. So realistically why do they deserve my money more then me? Don't want me to have a gun in your house? Fine it's your house your rules I respect that, but public right of ways come the fuck on. Well, speaking as an full blooded American Indian (gawd I hate being referred to as an Native American, just more bureaucratic nonsense trying to be PC) I do take it as bashing. There is so many things wrong in your self serving perspective. First of all Indian reservations are FEDERAL, we are a sovereign land and that is just the way it is. Don't like it, then stay out or off the ROW's plain and simple...no different than wanting to carry a "gun" into any Federal building in any city; there are laws to be followed. As far as you "friend", I feel sorry for her for wanting to turn her back on the reservation. There is really some great folks to be met, stories and tradition to be shared. I would like to meet your friend for a beer and would be interested in hearing more about her reasons. One of the things I would tell her, is most of the folks back on the 'res' don't feel badly for her, as a matter of fact they probably hold her in regard as someone who made a different life. Have her PM me, I'd like to meet her. Your view of Indian land of being a breeding ground for poverty, crime..etc is hard to take. Yea, we have our problems, but there are problems everywhere. Keep in mind, these folks were "ordered" to live there by the US Government. They had no choice, nor did the Government have there best interests in mind when they gave them the most un-desirable real estate imaginable. Just leave them alone, they don't need to be reminded of despair as viewed from outsiders. If you was on the reservation, you would see an entire sub-culture which for the most part is content with life as they know it. You mention you time in the Army Reserves and I know from past postings you served overseas, to which I commend you for your service. But going back to your breeding ground statement, do you realize the history of the American Indian fighting for this country? According to the Naval History & Heritage in WWII over 44,000 Indians left the reservation to volunteer for service. What makes this significant is at the time there was only a total population of 350,000. Now if you assume 40% of those are children and 50% of the remaining 60% is women. That would leave @105,000 men available for volunteering. Now according to my numbers...that means roughly 42% of the Indian male population saw service in WWII. Next time you are on a reservation and see those "old" guys sitting on their chairs quietly watching you, be sure to go up and thank them for their service. http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq61-1.htm As far as a breeding ground...don't put these folks down, their not responsible for the politics or circumstances, they are just trying to make a living. Rather than looking at the bad, look at their contributions, some of those folks you sneer at may be relative of Ira Hayes. American Indians have made a great mark in this country, we just chose to do it in our own way. Now for the record, I didn't serve as my brother, father, uncles, nephews and grand father did...I tried, smoked though the FAST and the ASVAB, but when I was doing the physical found out I was legally deaf on some of the high frequencies needed for enlistment. My dreams of flying a Cobra were not to be. I sulked for a few years then put my focus into Engineering, so not all Indians are a drag on society...As a matter of fact, I'm more worried about paying higher taxes as I'm now arbitrarily classified by Obama as one of the few who needs to pay more, like I haven't been already. 
My take is there is nothing to see or read on this thread and I recommend it be locked... |
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No one is bashing Indians here Jeff, I'm sorry if it seemed that way. I'm inquiring as to why we finance a breeding grounds for poverty, crime, and Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. One of my best friends is Native American and she NEVER goes to the reservation, she hates it there, thinks it is disgusting, and except for visiting her grandma from time to time she will have nothing to do with it. I actually went to her first with this question and she says horrible leadership and greed is the problem and that she didn't know a real way to fix it. I know this is somewhat a different subject but fundamentally even if they functioned perfectly which they don't even come remotely close to doing. I would still be against them since I don't have my constitutional rights there. I look at reservations like I look at all welfare. Why do they deserve my money more than I do? I'm working 40-50 hours a week right now plus going to school full time and serving in the Army Reserves all in an attempt to better myself. So realistically why do they deserve my money more then me? Don't want me to have a gun in your house? Fine it's your house your rules I respect that, but public right of ways come the fuck on. Also for the record the state of Arizona picked up the tab for all the work I did there. Because we made treaties saying that we would in exchange for valuable land. Our money goes toward paying for a "lease" of sorts, it is not welfare. If you would like to stop paying for the lease then we can always give back Phoenix, Mesa, Gilbert etc. etc. We are paying a debt to the tribe for the use of their land as stated in our many treaties that the United States has signed. Now what the tribe does with the monies and how it decides to distribute those resources is their business. |
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I Quoted: Thank you for chiming in. Admittedly I did unfairly lump all Indian reservations together its good to hear they are not all like that. I'm glad I'm not th only one who thinks the firearm laws are malarkey.Depends on the Res, and education of the locals. I worked in Kayenta for sometime and have seen a tremendous improvement in 30 years. The Hopi are a well educated upper middle class group. The Pima are rich from Casion work, The ToHoNo have terrible places and realy nice places, the Apache on San Carlos have some terrible wickiups and run down places then as many nice places. MANY Indians like my cousins have moved off the Res and live in nice places that the jobs from their college degrees have made them able to purchase, but they often return to the old places to see grandparents who won't move. BIA waste money, hell yes. Look at how some of the old Navie leaders lived, Peter McDonald, etc. Oh firearms laws are for non-Indians, sorry. We gotta be able to scalp a few of you for ceremonial purposes only. (I don't I'm only a quarter Chikasaw and never lived with the rest of the family) |
| WK Shooter, thanks for bringing out the term Native American is a shit term, a term developed by a bunch of liberal Berkelyites. American Indian has some proud pizaz to it. I think I'll scalp the next long haired white man who pouts an indian head band on and says I'm one of you. Really, I say, let me fuck your daughter. |
| Reservist all that i would ask is dont be like the liberal antigun pukes who run their mouths off about guns when they really dont have a clue what they are talking about. It is apparent you have little facts about reservation and Indians. Like i said, if you want educated Im willing to provide that. If not, im not interested in hearing more of your opinion that is lacking in truth. |
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Quoted: Quoted: No one is bashing Indians here Jeff, I'm sorry if it seemed that way. I'm inquiring as to why we finance a breeding grounds for poverty, crime, and Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. One of my best friends is Native American and she NEVER goes to the reservation, she hates it there, thinks it is disgusting, and except for visiting her grandma from time to time she will have nothing to do with it. I actually went to her first with this question and she says horrible leadership and greed is the problem and that she didn't know a real way to fix it. I know this is somewhat a different subject but fundamentally even if they functioned perfectly which they don't even come remotely close to doing. I would still be against them since I don't have my constitutional rights there. I look at reservations like I look at all welfare. Why do they deserve my money more than I do? I'm working 40-50 hours a week right now plus going to school full time and serving in the Army Reserves all in an attempt to better myself. So realistically why do they deserve my money more then me? Don't want me to have a gun in your house? Fine it's your house your rules I respect that, but public right of ways come the fuck on. Well, speaking as an full blooded American Indian (gawd I hate being referred to as an Native American, just more bureaucratic nonsense trying to be PC) I do take it as bashing. There is so many things wrong in your self serving perspective. First of all Indian reservations are FEDERAL, we are a sovereign land and that is just the way it is. Don't like it, then stay out or off the ROW's plain and simple...no different than wanting to carry a "gun" into any Federal building in any city; there are laws to be followed. As far as you "friend", I feel sorry for her for wanting to turn her back on the reservation. There is really some great folks to be met, stories and tradition to be shared. I would like to meet your friend for a beer and would be interested in hearing more about her reasons. One of the things I would tell her, is most of the folks back on the 'res' don't feel badly for her, as a matter of fact they probably hold her in regard as someone who made a different life. Have her PM me, I'd like to meet her. Your view of Indian land of being a breeding ground for poverty, crime..etc is hard to take. Yea, we have our problems, but there are problems everywhere. Keep in mind, these folks were "ordered" to live there by the US Government. They had no choice, nor did the Government have there best interests in mind when they gave them the most un-desirable real estate imaginable. Just leave them alone, they don't need to be reminded of despair as viewed from outsiders. If you was on the reservation, you would see an entire sub-culture which for the most part is content with life as they know it. You mention you time in the Army Reserves and I know from past postings you served overseas, to which I commend you for your service. But going back to your breeding ground statement, do you realize the history of the American Indian fighting for this country? According to the Naval History & Heritage in WWII over 44,000 Indians left the reservation to volunteer for service. What makes this significant is at the time there was only a total population of 350,000. Now if you assume 40% of those are children and 50% of the remaining 60% is women. That would leave @105,000 men available for volunteering. Now according to my numbers...that means roughly 42% of the Indian male population saw service in WWII. Next time you are on a reservation and see those "old" guys sitting on their chairs quietly watching you, be sure to go up and thank them for their service. http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq61-1.htm As far as a breeding ground...don't put these folks down, their not responsible for the politics or circumstances, they are just trying to make a living. Rather than looking at the bad, look at their contributions, some of those folks you sneer at may be relative of Ira Hayes. American Indians have made a great mark in this country, we just chose to do it in our own way. Now for the record, I didn't serve as my brother, father, uncles, nephews and grand father did...I tried, smoked though the FAST and the ASVAB, but when I was doing the physical found out I was legally deaf on some of the high frequencies needed for enlistment. My dreams of flying a Cobra were not to be. I sulked for a few years then put my focus into Engineering, so not all Indians are a drag on society...As a matter of fact, I'm more worried about paying higher taxes as I'm now arbitrarily classified by Obama as one of the few who needs to pay more, like I haven't been already. My take is there is nothing to see or read on this thread and I recommend it be locked... I did unfairly lump all Indian reservations together and I apologize for that. I should have specified the ones I was talking about. Either way I'm still not ok with reservations having different firearms laws or even federal structures at all. States rights still mean something to me. I brought up the reserves to strenghten the point that I work two jobs that require a lot of effort and I go to school full time, I was bad mouthing welfare at the time and trying to build an emphasis as to why I don't agree with it, I wasn't trying to down play the sacrifices of the Indians I'm not even sure where that came from. You might have taken my post too personally, admittedly it was angrily worded. Anytime I see a blatant disregard for children and animals my blood starts boiling which was probably why the post was angry. Sorry if this post jumps around too much I'm on my phone. |
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Quoted: Because we made treaties saying that we would in exchange for valuable land. Our money goes toward paying for a "lease" of sorts, it is not welfare. If you would like to stop paying for the lease then we can always give back Phoenix, Mesa, Gilbert etc. etc. We are paying a debt to the tribe for the use of their land as stated in our many treaties that the United States has signed. Now what the tribe does with the monies and how it decides to distribute those resources is their business. In that context it makes a lot more sense. |
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I have done lots of work with adolescents on the reservation and subsequently their families. It is a different culture and a different world. When I started working there it was tough for me to adjust, but now years later after coming to understand and learn their culture and circumstances I respect them.
Many of the kids I work with have plans, goals and desires to be more, do more. I have worked with and met family members of Ira H Hays as well as others veterans. If anything I have sympathy for them given their weird situation of status in this country as far as partial sovereignty but still having to adhere to Federal rules, etc. It is very odd for sure. |
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We put a lot of Native Americans on the most useless lands and then with uranium mining screwed them over again.
Some parts of the reservation have piles of radioactive material sitting around from the uranium mining that went on during the 60's and 70's. High levels of sickness and cancer from radiation poisoning. |
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...... Reservation cops will rape dat ass apparently if they catch you doing anything wrong and this is from word of mouth but supposedly they can search without warrant? That is one of the dumbest things I have heard about any res. ( I am a gringo) I have worked on just about every res in the state in the last 30 years and never had an Indian cop even look at me. I have been stopped several times by DPS on the boundry while they were running a speed trap. Yes it is like being in a third world country, but it is a free country and they can live like pigs if they want. |
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...... Reservation cops will rape dat ass apparently if they catch you doing anything wrong and this is from word of mouth but supposedly they can search without warrant? That is one of the dumbest things I have heard about any res. ( I am a gringo) I have worked on just about every res in the state in the last 30 years and never had an Indian cop even look at me. I have been stopped several times by DPS on the boundry while they were running a speed trap. Yes it is like being in a third world country, but it is a free country and they can live like pigs if they want. Agreed. The one traffic interaction I had with Gila River PD was about 6 months ago. I was pulled over on the phone dealing with a crazy school principal, rez-cop pulled up stopped and wanted to make sure I was okay. Guy was super nice saw I was okay, not upto anything and left. |
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Someone please explain to me why they still exist because I don't get it. If I missed this in the replies I apologize but, setting aside the in's and out's of how things work out given this construct, I am not sure I understand fundamentally why we should have this special construct at all? Can someone chime in as to why, in principle (not why/how it happened in practice) we should have any special "sovereign" nations for "Native Americans" aside/distinct from the 50 states individually or the USA federally/collectively? |
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I'm Navajo. I haven't lived on the reservation since I was old enough to get my own place. I'd rather live out of my truck than return to rez life (and I have). Yet I still do have my family and friends there, I do not forget it is still my home. Please don't gripe that the we, the state and the gov are funding such lifestyles. The treaties that were forged between the natives and the government are still in place. All of these were designed to prevent any commerce or working lifestyle to emerge on native land. In reality no one is able to create the american dream on the reservations, they are at the mercy of the state and government. Local reservation business simply does not exist. Border town commerce bleeds the reservations of their money and don't give anything back. So with what little is earned there is quickly spent in foreign territory. While I cannot speak for the reservation law enforcement, many of the laws they enforce were drafted as part of that tribe's treaty with the US government (ie. gun laws). |
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Someone please explain to me why they still exist because I don't get it. If I missed this in the replies I apologize but, setting aside the in's and out's of how things work out given this construct, I am not sure I understand fundamentally why we should have this special construct at all? Can someone chime in as to why, in principle (not why/how it happened in practice) we should have any special "sovereign" nations for "Native Americans" aside/distinct from the 50 states individually or the USA federally/collectively? Its complicated to say the least...But for the most part part it is established by the US Constitution and later Federal laws which grant local sovereignty to tribal nations. This is different from full sovereignty as provided to a foreign nation. Tribal nations are recognized as "domestic dependent nations" which would be the reason why we have treaties in place between the US government and Tribal Nations. WIKIPEDIA has a very detailed description of the laws and past judgements. But as per the US Constitution, it is referenced three times. -Article I, Section 2, Clause 3 states that "Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States ... excluding Indians not taxed."[2] According to Storey's Commentary on the US Constitution, "There were Indians, also, in several, and probably in most, of the states at that period, who were not treated as citizens, and yet, who did not form a part of independent communities or tribes, exercising general sovereignty and powers of government within the boundaries of the states." -Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution states that “Congress shall have the power to regulate Commerce with foreign nations and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes”, determining that Indian tribes were separate from the federal government, the states, and foreign nations;[4] and -The Fourteenth Amendment, Section 2 amends the apportionment of representatives in Article I, Section 2 above. These basic provisions have been changed and/or clarified by various federal laws over the history of the United States. Regulate, historically means facilitate. Therefore, the Congress of these United States was to be the facilitator of commerce between the states and the tribes. These Constitutional provisions, and subsequent interpretations by the Supreme Court (see below) are today often summarized in three principles of U.S. Indian law: -Territorial Sovereignty. Tribal authority on Indian land is organic and is not granted by the states in which Indian lands are located. -Plenary Power Doctrine. Congress, and not the Executive Branch, has ultimate authority with regard to matters affecting the Indian tribes. Federal courts give greater deference to Congress on Indian matters than on other subjects. -Trust Relationship. The federal government has a "duty to protect" the tribes, implying (courts have found) the necessary legislative and executive authorities to effect that duty. |
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Someone please explain to me why they still exist because I don't get it. If I missed this in the replies I apologize but, setting aside the in's and out's of how things work out given this construct, I am not sure I understand fundamentally why we should have this special construct at all? Can someone chime in as to why, in principle (not why/how it happened in practice) we should have any special "sovereign" nations for "Native Americans" aside/distinct from the 50 states individually or the USA federally/collectively?[/ Edit. Above post was 12 minutes faster |
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Quoted: Reservist all that i would ask is dont be like the liberal antigun pukes who run their mouths off about guns when they really dont have a clue what they are talking about. It is apparent you have little facts about reservation and Indians. Like i said, if you want educated Im willing to provide that. If not, im not interested in hearing more of your opinion that is lacking in truth. He runs his mouth about a lot of things with out having a clue. Its kinda his thing. |
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Someone please explain to me why they still exist because I don't get it. If I missed this in the replies I apologize but, setting aside the in's and out's of how things work out given this construct, I am not sure I understand fundamentally why we should have this special construct at all? Can someone chime in as to why, in principle (not why/how it happened in practice) we should have any special "sovereign" nations for "Native Americans" aside/distinct from the 50 states individually or the USA federally/collectively? Its complicated to say the least...But for the most part part it is established by the US Constitution and later Federal laws which grant local sovereignty to tribal nations. This is different from full sovereignty as provided to a foreign nation. Tribal nations are recognized as "domestic dependent nations" which would be the reason why we have treaties in place between the US government and Tribal Nations. WIKIPEDIA has a very detailed description of the laws and past judgements. But as per the US Constitution, it is referenced three times. -Article I, Section 2, Clause 3 states that "Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States ... excluding Indians not taxed."[2] According to Storey's Commentary on the US Constitution, "There were Indians, also, in several, and probably in most, of the states at that period, who were not treated as citizens, and yet, who did not form a part of independent communities or tribes, exercising general sovereignty and powers of government within the boundaries of the states." -Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution states that “Congress shall have the power to regulate Commerce with foreign nations and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes”, determining that Indian tribes were separate from the federal government, the states, and foreign nations;[4] and -The Fourteenth Amendment, Section 2 amends the apportionment of representatives in Article I, Section 2 above. These basic provisions have been changed and/or clarified by various federal laws over the history of the United States. Regulate, historically means facilitate. Therefore, the Congress of these United States was to be the facilitator of commerce between the states and the tribes. These Constitutional provisions, and subsequent interpretations by the Supreme Court (see below) are today often summarized in three principles of U.S. Indian law: -Territorial Sovereignty. Tribal authority on Indian land is organic and is not granted by the states in which Indian lands are located. -Plenary Power Doctrine. Congress, and not the Executive Branch, has ultimate authority with regard to matters affecting the Indian tribes. Federal courts give greater deference to Congress on Indian matters than on other subjects. -Trust Relationship. The federal government has a "duty to protect" the tribes, implying (courts have found) the necessary legislative and executive authorities to effect that duty. Great stuff! But...I want to go back further. Besides some collective guilt that no doubt was a factor, why should this special status have been conferred to the "Native Americans?" It is this that I am still not understanding. My current understanding of both "conventional wisdom" vs reality (that I am more than willing to better inform) is: - Conventional wisdom = U.S. territory is all territory conquered from Native Americans. Reality = Much land was conquered but much land was also freely traded/transacted with Native Americans. - Conventional wisdom = territory conquered by US (and/or it's precursors) was taken from the land's "first peoples" and thus stolen. Reality = With some exception, the conquering of the land by the "white man" was really just the most recent in a succession of the conquering of the land by successive tribes/nations from other tribes/nations who existed on the continent pre-Columbus. -Conventional wisdom = white man conquering of native lands was historically and uncommonly violent and cruel. Reality = tribes/nations who conquered others tribes/nations were no less violent or cruel toward the conquered than were the white men. There may be a few more but starting with these, it seems to me, and again I am ready to be corrected, that most of what we see today is the result more of collective conqueror's guilt followed by a slow morphing of history into a highly mis-characterized/non-contextual conventional wisdom of history. |