[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Arizona HTF... help please. (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 12/15/2012 10:46:46 AM EDT
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I am in a discussion with someone on FB and someone posted this: "In Arizona you can go to a gun show and buy from and independent seller and not have to show any identification." I need AZ residents to either confirm or deny this. I am sure you have to do a 4473 to sell or is that not true? Thank you in advance. |
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So you can sell a firearm to someone and not know if they are a convicted felon? Or as far as the buyer is concerned, he could buy a gun that was used in a crime and not know it? Pretty much Unless purchasing from a dealer, No background check is needed. A lot of people won't sell so someone FTF unless they have a CCW though Will |
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So you can sell a firearm to someone and not know if they are a convicted felon? Or as far as the buyer is concerned, he could buy a gun that was used in a crime and not know it? Sure. How would the seller be able to check if the guy was a convicted felon even if he wanted to? NICS only does background checks for FFL holders who are registered with the NICS system. |
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You can't really do that at a gun show unless one person is selling to another person. All of the tables there for the most part are FFL's and they have to run the background check. You can however do that anywhere else in the state. I sell and buy my guns in QT parking lots, not joking. It would suck to live in CA. I love how liberals are always quick to bring up the "GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE!!!! OMGZZZ!!!" It's not a loop hole and it has nothing to do with gun shows, you can do that anywhere. It would suck to live somewhere like California where people are indoctrinated to be scared of freedom. Millions of gun owners hurt no one every single day. The the OP: If your friend is arguing that guns killed those kids in CT then show him this. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2248054/China-stabbing-22-children-elderly-woman-stabbed-outside-primary-school-Chinese-knifeman.html |
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Quoted: You can't really do that at a gun show unless one person is selling to another person. All of the tables there for the most part are FFL's and they have to run the background check. You can however do that anywhere else in the state. I sell and buy my guns in QT parking lots, not joking. It would suck to live in CA. I love how liberals are always quick to bring up the "GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE!!!! OMGZZZ!!!" It's not a loop hole and it has nothing to do with gun shows, you can do that anywhere. It would suck to live somewhere like California where people are indoctrinated to be scared of freedom. Millions of gun owners hurt no one every single day. The the OP: If your friend is arguing that guns killed those kids in CT then show him this. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2248054/China-stabbing-22-children-elderly-woman-stabbed-outside-primary-school-Chinese-knifeman.html Oh, we already discussed the knifing in China. He and I were arguing that anyone can sell to anyone else without a background check and argued that it was not true and had to go through an FFL, posted some video about no background checks and I guess he was right and I was wrong. Here in CA, if I want to sell my gun to a friend, we have to do it through an FFL. That way, I know I am not selling a gun to an ex con and he knows he is not buying a stolen or previously used in a crime firearm. Thank you all for the info... Now I have to admit I was wrong... Crap!  |
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Quoted: Quoted: You can't really do that at a gun show unless one person is selling to another person. All of the tables there for the most part are FFL's and they have to run the background check. You can however do that anywhere else in the state. I sell and buy my guns in QT parking lots, not joking. It would suck to live in CA. I love how liberals are always quick to bring up the "GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE!!!! OMGZZZ!!!" It's not a loop hole and it has nothing to do with gun shows, you can do that anywhere. It would suck to live somewhere like California where people are indoctrinated to be scared of freedom. Millions of gun owners hurt no one every single day. The the OP: If your friend is arguing that guns killed those kids in CT then show him this. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2248054/China-stabbing-22-children-elderly-woman-stabbed-outside-primary-school-Chinese-knifeman.html Oh, we already discussed the knifing in China. He and I were arguing that anyone can sell to anyone else without a background check and argued that it was not true and had to go through an FFL, posted some video about no background checks and I guess he was right and I was wrong. Here in CA, if I want to sell my gun to a friend, we have to do it through an FFL. That way, I know I am not selling a gun to an ex con and he knows he is not buying a stolen or previously used in a crime firearm. Thank you all for the info... Now I have to admit I was wrong... Crap! That's a risk Arizona is willing to take so that we don't have to punish everyone for the crimes of a few. |
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Quoted: That is the angle he is using.. EVEN THOUGH the guns used yesterday were NOT stolen, NOT sold to an ex con and had NOTHING to do with it, That is the angle he is going after.. that "loophole" UGH!Quoted: Quoted: You can't really do that at a gun show unless one person is selling to another person. All of the tables there for the most part are FFL's and they have to run the background check. You can however do that anywhere else in the state. I sell and buy my guns in QT parking lots, not joking. It would suck to live in CA. I love how liberals are always quick to bring up the "GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE!!!! OMGZZZ!!!" It's not a loop hole and it has nothing to do with gun shows, you can do that anywhere. It would suck to live somewhere like California where people are indoctrinated to be scared of freedom. Millions of gun owners hurt no one every single day. The the OP: If your friend is arguing that guns killed those kids in CT then show him this. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2248054/China-stabbing-22-children-elderly-woman-stabbed-outside-primary-school-Chinese-knifeman.html Oh, we already discussed the knifing in China. He and I were arguing that anyone can sell to anyone else without a background check and argued that it was not true and had to go through an FFL, posted some video about no background checks and I guess he was right and I was wrong. Here in CA, if I want to sell my gun to a friend, we have to do it through an FFL. That way, I know I am not selling a gun to an ex con and he knows he is not buying a stolen or previously used in a crime firearm. Thank you all for the info... Now I have to admit I was wrong... Crap! That's a risk Arizona is willing to take so that we don't have to punish everyone for the crimes of a few. Reminds me of when I wrote to a congress critter here about the 50BMG ban... I asked him "Even though a crime has NEVER been committed with a 50 cal, why are you banning them?" his answer? "Prevention"  |
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Not quoted to avoid the dreaded quote tree ban:
Prevention: Yep, that makes sense. Removing tongues would prevent people telling lies. Removing hands would prevent people forging checks. Removing 5 gallon bucks would prevent drownings. Removing cars would prevent 50k deaths per year, from vehicular collisions. We tried removing alcohol from our country - did that stop the abuse of lampshades? I don't think so! And Euro-Americans still try to prove we can dance, while under it's influence. 
Freedom has risks. The ability to buy & sell weapons (along with toys, 5 gallon buckets, sawzalls, fishing line, bedsheets, rope, duct tape and all manner of other objects) means we are free. To do as we wish, without government supervision or permission. Some few folks choose to abuse that freedom. The consequences should be harsh, swift and discourage repetition. Today, they aren't. But let your buddy keep harping on "gunshow loop hole." That distracts him from the no-knock warrants, the pervoscan inspections of the Taliban Security Agency, the 25 DUI convictions before someone gets their license taken away. Mind you, an Arizona resident should only be selling to an Arizona resident, to avoid running afoul of the Always Think Forfeiture boys. But freedom involves the opportunity to make bad choices, and suffer the consequences. Else it is not freedom. You aren't going to convince your friend. Wish him well, and write him off as a potential asset. And never, ever, lend him a firearm. |
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Quoted: Not quoted to avoid the dreaded quote tree ban: Prevention: Yep, that makes sense. Removing tongues would prevent people telling lies. Removing hands would prevent people forging checks. Removing 5 gallon bucks would prevent drownings. Removing cars would prevent 50k deaths per year, from vehicular collisions. We tried removing alcohol from our country - did that stop the abuse of lampshades? I don't think so! And Euro-Americans still try to prove we can dance, while under it's influence. Freedom has risks. The ability to buy & sell weapons (along with toys, 5 gallon buckets, sawzalls, fishing line, bedsheets, rope, duct tape and all manner of other objects) means we are free. To do as we wish, without government supervision or permission. Some few folks choose to abuse that freedom. The consequences should be harsh, swift and discourage repetition. Today, they aren't. But let your buddy keep harping on "gunshow loop hole." That distracts him from the no-knock warrants, the pervoscan inspections of the Taliban Security Agency, the 25 DUI convictions before someone gets their license taken away. Mind you, an Arizona resident should only be selling to an Arizona resident, to avoid running afoul of the Always Think Forfeiture boys. But freedom involves the opportunity to make bad choices, and suffer the consequences. Else it is not freedom. You aren't going to convince your friend. Wish him well, and write him off as a potential asset. And never, ever, lend him a firearm. GACK!!! NO!!!! He is not a friend... I would never associate with such asshattery. This is on a mutual friend's page. HOWEVER, I am going to copy and use your "Removing things" part... I LOVE IT!  |
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That is the angle he is using.. EVEN THOUGH the guns used yesterday were NOT stolen, NOT sold to an ex con and had NOTHING to do with it, That is the angle he is going after.. that "loophole" UGH! Technically the guns used in the CT murders were stolen. The guns were registered to his mother, he just lived there and had easy access to them, wished she had them locked up more securely. |
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I am in a discussion with someone on FB and someone posted this: "In Arizona you can go to a gun show and buy from and independent seller and not have to show any identification." I need AZ residents to either confirm or deny this. I am sure you have to do a 4473 to sell or is that not true? Thank you in advance. You are a gun owner, been on this site for 11 years, have posted over twenty-eight thousand times and don't know the answer to this? |
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I am in a discussion with someone on FB and someone posted this: "In Arizona you can go to a gun show and buy from and independent seller and not have to show any identification." I need AZ residents to either confirm or deny this. I am sure you have to do a 4473 to sell or is that not true? Thank you in advance. You are a gun owner, been on this site for 11 years, have posted over twenty-eight thousand times and don't know the answer to this? Be nice. He's from California. All that 'liberal-think" has....altered...his perceptions. 
Well, that, and all those spiders we have massed at the border.
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Quoted: YUP! What I am all of a sudden starting to see is a rise in the whole "mental health" argument and less "gun control" argument. I mean, I keep asking that too. I have three children. all mentally stable however, all my guns are in a safe. This woman KNEW she had a son that had issues, were the guns in a safe? did he know the combo or the location of the key? lots of unanswered questions.Quoted: That is the angle he is using.. EVEN THOUGH the guns used yesterday were NOT stolen, NOT sold to an ex con and had NOTHING to do with it, That is the angle he is going after.. that "loophole" UGH! Technically the guns used in the CT murders were stolen. The guns were registered to his mother, he just lived there and had easy access to them, wished she had them locked up more securely. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I am in a discussion with someone on FB and someone posted this: "In Arizona you can go to a gun show and buy from and independent seller and not have to show any identification." I need AZ residents to either confirm or deny this. I am sure you have to do a 4473 to sell or is that not true? Thank you in advance. You are a gun owner, been on this site for 11 years, have posted over twenty-eight thousand times and don't know the answer to this? No. Hence why I came in here to ask YOU guys before opening up my mouth and looking like an idiot. I have troubles keeping up with 60+ pages of California gun laws since they are constantly changing, trying to protect my own ass... you think I am versed on gun laws in all other 49 states? |
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Quoted: No. It's your fucking scorpions that are keeping me out! Quoted: Quoted: I am in a discussion with someone on FB and someone posted this: "In Arizona you can go to a gun show and buy from and independent seller and not have to show any identification." I need AZ residents to either confirm or deny this. I am sure you have to do a 4473 to sell or is that not true? Thank you in advance. You are a gun owner, been on this site for 11 years, have posted over twenty-eight thousand times and don't know the answer to this? Be nice. He's from California. All that 'liberal-think" has....altered...his perceptions. Well, that, and all those spiders we have massed at the border.   |
| Keep in mind in your discussion that pretty much any "fix" O and the Dems will propose is already in place in CT and all of it's surrounding states. Of course this isn't now and will never be a real discussion about facts or really making society safer so I suppose this would be moot. |
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Keep Cali shit in Cali... WTF does California have to do with anything regarding this topic. The person I am arguing with is in AZ and wants to take away your rights. I am fighting on YOUR behalf. 
WTF does California have to do with this? It has to do with the fact that you've been fucked so hard, and so often, that your bleeding asshole thinks fucked is the normal state. The idea of a private citizen selling property to another private citizen without the permission of the government is normal.. Not the shit you do in California. We are normal, you are the ones that are backasswards and fucktastic. That's what California has to do with it. |
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The best argument I have for anti's is the 1968 GCA.
First ask your friend if there was more gun violence in the 1950s or today. Most people will say we are more violent today. Explain to your friend that before the 68 GCA law anyone could buy or sell guns without any restrictions. Walk into your local hardware store put down your cash and walk out with a rifle or pistol. No store nearby? Call up a store in the next county or state tell them what you want, give them a CC # and your address and they mail it to your front door. No background check, no forms to fill out and no record kept beyond what any store keeps for general purchases. So before the 68 GCA guns were sold like screwdrivers or shoes with no special controls*. After the 68 GCA we have the FFL system we now know and many think is completely "normal". Once your 'friend' wraps his mind around that bit of history ask him if having restrictive gun laws reduced gun crime. * Some states had their own restrictions but they were a small minority prior to the 68 GCA. |
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Quoted: So you can sell a firearm to someone and not know if they are a convicted felon? Or as far as the buyer is concerned, he could buy a gun that was used in a crime and not know it? ... how would an ID tell if the buyer was a potential prohibited possessor? |
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Keep Cali shit in Cali... WTF does California have to do with anything regarding this topic. The person I am arguing with is in AZ and wants to take away your rights. I am fighting on YOUR behalf.
WTF does California have to do with this? It has to do with the fact that you've been fucked so hard, and so often, that your bleeding asshole thinks fucked is the normal state. The idea of a private citizen selling property to another private citizen without the permission of the government is normal.. Not the shit you do in California. We are normal, you are the ones that are backasswards and fucktastic. That's what California has to do with it. So a guy comes here to make sure he has his facts straight about Arizona gun laws because he's arguing with an Arizona Anti and you choose to ridicule him. Why would he even bother to try next time? |
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Quoted: Nope...All my firearms except for one were through FTF transactions/trades. 4 out of my XX were bought from an FFL. The rest were private sales. I got my cookie cutter guns from stores, ruger 10/22, remington 870, etc. Its more expensive to get those type on backpage. Walmart always has them for dirt cheap. |
| DrFrige, I know you mean well but you have to understand AZ is probably the most anti-CA state in the Union. We are right next to your state and we have to put up with your state's bullshit from all the people who want to come here and change it. Tread lightly when you address Arizonans. |
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DrFrige, I know you mean well but you have to understand AZ is probably the most anti-CA state in the Union. We are right next to your state and we have to put up with your state's bullshit from all the people who want to come here and change it. Tread lightly when you address Arizonans. QFT!!! that Cali bullshit gets old. when all my friends talk about how they wish AZ was more like cali I usually tell them to FOAD! |
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Wow. I am sorry I asked anything. As stated earlier I was on YOUR side with this, I just wanted my facts first. For those of you that helped me, I thank you and you gave me the ammo I needed to give a logical argument. As stated earlier, this guy that I am arguing with is "Property of Arizona" ... not California. He is the one trying to take away your rights. Not me. Would you rather me spout off points that were not true or come to you all for the truth? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Keep Cali shit in Cali... WTF does California have to do with anything regarding this topic. The person I am arguing with is in AZ and wants to take away your rights. I am fighting on YOUR behalf. Your insane Cali laws....we don't want em Where did I offer them? |
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Quoted: DrFrige, I know you mean well but you have to understand AZ is probably the most anti-CA state in the Union. We are right next to your state and we have to put up with your state's bullshit from all the people who want to come here and change it. Tread lightly when you address Arizonans. Tread lightly? What did I say other than I need to know some facts? I am not allowed to ask questions? It's not that I am trying to change AZ law. Matter of fact I was hoping CA was more like AZ. |
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Quoted: He's talking about how they transfer through an FFL so people can be checked out. Some of you guys need to relax in this thread, he came here for some info, not to be belittled..... Thank you. That is exactly what I was looking for. I dont know if they misunderstood what I am getting at, I thought I made my self clear in the first post. Maybe I didn't. Dont know. Anyway, my story does have a happy ending if you are interested. The guy came in with the usual libtard response of "Lets just agree to disagree" Which basically mean "I give up, scared to argue" ... doesn't mean he isn't on the cheer squad of the left and trying to change your rights there in AZ... I wish you all good luck with this idiot. I still dont know what "gun show loophole" he is talking about. |
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Quoted: C&R dealer myself, got my M1 in LESS time than waiting the stupid 10 day wait for normal channels...to extend the argument even further.. so far as I know, selling a 'pre-1895 antique' or c&r weapon doesn't require going through an FFL in *any* state, including CA. (they'll even ship USPS) eg: CMP rifles |
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Keep Cali shit in Cali... WTF does California have to do with anything regarding this topic. The person I am arguing with is in AZ and wants to take away your rights. I am fighting on YOUR behalf.
Your insane Cali laws....we don't want em Where did I offer them? you did not, and I apologize for sounding rude. |
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Quoted: As Ed Sr. once said "No apology necessary among friends" I understand your frustration with this state and the influx of morons from here into AZ. I hope to soon be one of those that move there and offset the idiot liberals that do come into AZ. I happen to love visiting there. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Keep Cali shit in Cali... WTF does California have to do with anything regarding this topic. The person I am arguing with is in AZ and wants to take away your rights. I am fighting on YOUR behalf. Your insane Cali laws....we don't want em Where did I offer them? you did not, and I apologize for sounding rude. |
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You can't really do that at a gun show unless one person is selling to another person. All of the tables there for the most part are FFL's and they have to run the background check. You can however do that anywhere else in the state. I sell and buy my guns in QT parking lots, not joking. It would suck to live in CA. I love how liberals are always quick to bring up the "GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE!!!! OMGZZZ!!!" It's not a loop hole and it has nothing to do with gun shows, you can do that anywhere. It would suck to live somewhere like California where people are indoctrinated to be scared of freedom. Millions of gun owners hurt no one every single day. The the OP: If your friend is arguing that guns killed those kids in CT then show him this. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2248054/China-stabbing-22-children-elderly-woman-stabbed-outside-primary-school-Chinese-knifeman.html Oh, we already discussed the knifing in China. He and I were arguing that anyone can sell to anyone else without a background check and argued that it was not true and had to go through an FFL, posted some video about no background checks and I guess he was right and I was wrong. Here in CA, if I want to sell my gun to a friend, we have to do it through an FFL. That way, I know I am not selling a gun to an ex con and he knows he is not buying a stolen or previously used in a crime firearm. Thank you all for the info... Now I have to admit I was wrong... Crap!
Pretty sure that a NICS check does NOT include checking to see if a gun is stolen. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You can't really do that at a gun show unless one person is selling to another person. All of the tables there for the most part are FFL's and they have to run the background check. You can however do that anywhere else in the state. I sell and buy my guns in QT parking lots, not joking. It would suck to live in CA. I love how liberals are always quick to bring up the "GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE!!!! OMGZZZ!!!" It's not a loop hole and it has nothing to do with gun shows, you can do that anywhere. It would suck to live somewhere like California where people are indoctrinated to be scared of freedom. Millions of gun owners hurt no one every single day. The the OP: If your friend is arguing that guns killed those kids in CT then show him this. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2248054/China-stabbing-22-children-elderly-woman-stabbed-outside-primary-school-Chinese-knifeman.html Oh, we already discussed the knifing in China. He and I were arguing that anyone can sell to anyone else without a background check and argued that it was not true and had to go through an FFL, posted some video about no background checks and I guess he was right and I was wrong. Here in CA, if I want to sell my gun to a friend, we have to do it through an FFL. That way, I know I am not selling a gun to an ex con and he knows he is not buying a stolen or previously used in a crime firearm. Thank you all for the info... Now I have to admit I was wrong... Crap! Pretty sure that a NICS check does NOT include checking to see if a gun is stolen. But the CA DOJ check that the 10-day waiting period allows for, does. |
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You can't really do that at a gun show unless one person is selling to another person. All of the tables there for the most part are FFL's and they have to run the background check. You can however do that anywhere else in the state. I sell and buy my guns in QT parking lots, not joking. It would suck to live in CA. I love how liberals are always quick to bring up the "GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE!!!! OMGZZZ!!!" It's not a loop hole and it has nothing to do with gun shows, you can do that anywhere. It would suck to live somewhere like California where people are indoctrinated to be scared of freedom. Millions of gun owners hurt no one every single day. The the OP: If your friend is arguing that guns killed those kids in CT then show him this. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2248054/China-stabbing-22-children-elderly-woman-stabbed-outside-primary-school-Chinese-knifeman.html Oh, we already discussed the knifing in China. He and I were arguing that anyone can sell to anyone else without a background check and argued that it was not true and had to go through an FFL, posted some video about no background checks and I guess he was right and I was wrong. Here in CA, if I want to sell my gun to a friend, we have to do it through an FFL. That way, I know I am not selling a gun to an ex con and he knows he is not buying a stolen or previously used in a crime firearm. Thank you all for the info... Now I have to admit I was wrong... Crap!
Pretty sure that a NICS check does NOT include checking to see if a gun is stolen. But the CA DOJ check that the 10-day waiting period allows for, does. Pretty sure the only national DB that would include stolen firearms is the NCIC (note "NCIC" NOT "NICS"). My point was that even if you buy a firearm from (or through) a FFL in AZ, that doesn't guarantee that it's not stolen. |