Posted: 11/9/2012 8:00:04 AM EDT
| Well according to the unofficial election results from the AZSOS it appears that the libertarian voters gave two congressional seats to the Dems. Thanks..... |
|
Quoted: Well according to the unofficial election results from the AZSOS it appears that the libertarian voters gave two congressional seats to the Dems. Thanks..... Personal attack removed... -AGW Man, it's awesome how you love your individual rights, but despise those of others. How American of you.  |
|
Quoted: Your assumption is that if they had not voted libertarian they would have voted republican and this is a shaky assumption since many libertarians will never vote republican. They will not vote before they vote republican. It'd be nice if that's what they did. The results would be the same, but at least the worthless libertarian candidates wouldn't have an incentive to crowd the ballot. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Your assumption is that if they had not voted libertarian they would have voted republican and this is a shaky assumption since many libertarians will never vote republican. They will not vote before they vote republican. It'd be nice if that's what they did. The results would be the same, but at least the worthless libertarian candidates wouldn't have an incentive to crowd the ballot. It's a correct assumption for many. I'd rather not vote for a particular election than vote for a republican who has a history of spending my tax dollars pushing his social agenda. |
|
While I would consider myself a libertarian in some aspects and in others wayyyy to far right to be a Republican I still vote republican to keep democrats out of office. We have to let people vote the way they want though otherwise the united states doesn't work the way it's supposed to. Libertarian voters in my book are 500% better than any democrats because they know why they are voting libertarian. Ask any democrat why he is voting democrat and you will get half truths and an over repeated democrat mantra that consists of lies and wishful thinking. That or they will just say the republican candidate sucks with no logic what so ever, like in this video.  |
| Think strategically, thats all I'm asking. It might make you feel good to stick it to the republicans and vote your conscience, but as adults sometimes we're forced to make the hard right decision over the easy wrong, or call it folly. The libertarian party as a whole will NEVER be a mainstream party, however reagan said that the libertarians were the backbone of the republican party. Every libertarian candidate you vote for, or republican you don't vote for helps a democrat, thats just the plain truth of the situation. I didn't like Mitt Romney, and never supported him, but I sure as hell pulled the lever for him because the alternative is far worse. I held my nose voting for that retard McCain too because the alternative was worse. Think strategically.. |
|
Quoted:
Think strategically, thats all I'm asking. It might make you feel good to stick it to the republicans and vote your conscience, but as adults sometimes we're forced to make the hard right decision over the easy wrong, or call it folly. The libertarian party as a whole will NEVER be a mainstream party, however reagan said that the libertarians were the backbone of the republican party. Every libertarian candidate you vote for, or republican you don't vote for helps a democrat, thats just the plain truth of the situation. I didn't like Mitt Romney, and never supported him, but I sure as hell pulled the lever for him because the alternative is far worse. I held my nose voting for that retard McCain too because the alternative was worse. Think strategically.. You are not forced to make any decision. The beauty of a free country is the fact that no one is holding a gun to our head. A decision is unforced and based upon one's own thoughts as well as the facts before them. To force it would not make it a decision at all. I vote for the candidate that best suits me and if none exist, I leave that one blank and don't just blindly default. It's never a choice of lesser of two evils. There's always another option. |
|
I identify myself as libertarian but vote republican because beating democrats is more important than damn near anything. The real problem with most libertarians isn't that they vote libertarian. There aren't enough that do that to really make a huge difference in the big picture. It's that they demonize republicans. I have lots of libertarians on facebook as friends and they spent a lot of their time not only bashing republican candidates but perpetuating the same lies about them as the left does. They didn't seem to spend much time at all promoting the benefits of their candidate. Mostly just shit talking Romney. I think this kind of behavior helped hurt Romney a LOT in the elections and did nothing for the libertarian candidate who couldn't win in the first place. They bashed Obama a bit but Romney bashing was at least 80 percent of their platform. |
|
Good point Victor, I did notice that too. I do think it is because many openly libertarian (or libertarian leaning) people are "challenged" by GOP backers. None of my liberal friends or family ever question my support for a third party candidate other then a general inquiry. My die hard GOP friends hammer me.."well what about blah blah blah, my candidate will...." so my direct response to their question usually involves their candidate of choice. most of the time i try to sell "my" candidate rather than tear another down for that very reason. The biggest conflict I have with many voters is a basic belief...
To me i only vote FOR a person, never against another. If i like no one on the ballot (or registered write in) i leave that one blank. This was the only way i could justify my actions to me and actually feel good about voting, i know that is not for everyone and that's fine....i don't live for everyone 
|
|
Quoted: My understanding is that most libertarians side with republicans on economic issues and democrats on social issues. I don't think it's reasonable to expect them to vote republican and get upset when they don't. That may be true for some but overall that is not true. Libertarianism is all about maxing out freedom, with a heavy emphasis on liberty, and making associations with everything voluntary only. Both parties violate the main ideals of libertarianism. I would say I am libertarian on MOST issues, for example I have NO stance on abortion. I'm not ok with gay marriage but I am ok with civil unions, gay marriage is taking something away from a class of people so I am not ok with it. Overwhelming taxes to be spent how politicians see fit... no fucking way. I think you should only have to pay for what you use. I use the highways, the schools, the police department, the fire department, etc. So why the fuck is my money going to Pakistan, African, Afghanistan, etc. I think the 8th amendment has been vastly taken out of context. The 8th protects against cruel and unusual punishment but I don't think it would be cruel or unusual to whip a child molester in a town square for example. Gun laws... why do they exist, why does someone get to decide to what extent I am free, I've never hurt anyone so why is there any regulation on my life at all. To be any form of regulation that I didn't personally accept or agree with is the government over stepping its bounds. We are pretty beat down for a supposed "free country" a huge portion of every paycheck goes to some assholes 2000 miles away so he can then redistribute it to the lowest common denominator and pay fat lazy government employees, the system IS broken. I vote republican because it's the closest to my views, but I disagree with them on a lot of things. If you want to further understand libertarianism you should check out the book Freehold by Michael Z Williamson. |
|
Quoted:
Libertarianism is all about maxing out freedom, with a heavy emphasis on liberty, and making associations with everything voluntary only. Both parties violate the main ideals of libertarianism. Right, which is exactly what I'm saying. Libertarians like Republicans and dislike Democrats because of their stance on economic issues. And they like Democrats and dislike Republicans because of their stance on abortion, gay marriage, legalizing pot, and other social issues. I think you should only have to pay for what you use. I use the highways, the schools, the police department, the fire department, etc. So why the fuck is my money going to Pakistan, African, Afghanistan, etc.
Thinking outside the box and coming up with creative solutions to our economic problems is always a good thing, but I think this particular plan would be problematic. That's not to say that it couldn't work as a starting point, but I think it would have to be continuously patched––for lack of a better word. Interesting concept though. I think the 8th amendment has been vastly taken out of context. The 8th protects against cruel and unusual punishment but I don't think it would be cruel or unusual to whip a child molester in a town square for example.
I spent the last three years studying law at a highly regarded institution and I can't even begin to explain what a technical and complex endeavor constitutional analysis is. The quickest way to explain it is that even seemingly plain and concrete words don't have a single identifiable meaning. They can mean a variety of things based on how you go about the inquiry. Take "cruel and unusual" for example. Should it prohibit what we would consider cruel and unusual in 2012, or only what was cruel and unusual in 1789? Should we emphasize what the words meant in 1789, or what the drafters intended to convey with those words? It gets hairy pretty quickly. And this is why everyone thinks that the laws they agree with are constitutional and the laws they disagree with are unconstitutional: because you can interpret the words so that they're consistent with your beliefs. Gun laws... why do they exist, why does someone get to decide to what extent I am free, I've never hurt anyone so why is there any regulation on my life at all. To be any form of regulation that I didn't personally accept or agree with is the government over stepping its bounds.
You should check out Hobbes––the philosopher, not the tiger. He basically came up with the idea of social contract. You benefit from the security, stability, and economic prosperity of living in society, but there's a price. By living in a society, you agree to follow the rules––even the ones you don't agree with. If you don't like the rules, you can fight to change them or move somewhere that better fits your beliefs. We are pretty beat down for a supposed "free country" a huge portion of every paycheck goes to some assholes 2000 miles away so he can then redistribute it to the lowest common denominator and pay fat lazy government employees, the system IS broken.
Look, I think it's unacceptable that there are people out there that are able to work and don't––and instead just collect welfare. But they're not getting a huge portion of your check. If you're single and made 35k this year, you're paying about 3800 in taxes. Only 13% or $497 goes to safety nets. A lot of this is just tax credits like EIC and child tax credits. But some of it is welfare. So let's guess you're paying $250 every year so some bum can sit on his ass. It's bullshit for sure. That's half a case of .45. But it's about $5 out of every paycheck, not a big chunk. |
| Bleh...Now that the takers have, or will outnumber the givers (workers/taxpayers) in the coming years, the chances of a Republician , Liberaterian or any other right leaning politician winning an election is nill. All that needs done is the Dem/Liberal/Green canidate to do is say "I'll keep the bennies coming and he'll take them away". That there is the end of any future debate. It's far better to vote against the other guy than to take the moral high ground and convince yourself that you're doing the right thing by not voting for the Republician or abstaining altogether. |
|
Quoted: Well according to the unofficial election results from the AZSOS it appears that the libertarian voters gave two congressional seats to the Dems. Thanks..... In my district the only opposition to liberal fuckbag Ed Pastor was from the Libertarians. Republicans didn't even have a candidate. |
|
We're in the same district. I had no idea who the guy running against Pastor was and I didn't care. I was voting for anyone other than Pastor. Other people must have felt the same way, as Cobb (I think that's his name) got 20% of the vote.
Quoted:
Quoted:
Well according to the unofficial election results from the AZSOS it appears that the libertarian voters gave two congressional seats to the Dems. Thanks..... In my district the only opposition to liberal fuckbag Ed Pastor was from the Libertarians. Republicans didn't even have a candidate. |
| Bernie Goldberg said it tonight; the purists are going to ruin it. I'm not voting for so and so because they aren't this etc. You can go ahead and keep voting for your perfect candidate but it is only going to make it easier for the libs/Dems to win. Stick it to the liberals. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
blah blah blah blah blame the libertarians blah blah blah I'm so tired of hearing this shit already. Same here, had to deal with all these silly predictions running up to the election. My opinion, if it was so predictable why didn't they just run better candidates. |
|
Quoted:
Yes, we must continue to vote for the two party system. It has worked out so well for us. The closest thing to zombies we have in this country are people that continue to go to the polls, vote their party line, and then wonder why nothing is getting better. |
|
Quoted:
I identify myself as libertarian but vote republican because beating democrats is more important than damn near anything. The real problem with most libertarians isn't that they vote libertarian. There aren't enough that do that to really make a huge difference in the big picture. It's that they demonize republicans. I have lots of libertarians on facebook as friends and they spent a lot of their time not only bashing republican candidates but perpetuating the same lies about them as the left does. They didn't seem to spend much time at all promoting the benefits of their candidate. Mostly just shit talking Romney. I think this kind of behavior helped hurt Romney a LOT in the elections and did nothing for the libertarian candidate who couldn't win in the first place. They bashed Obama a bit but Romney bashing was at least 80 percent of their platform. NICE! Why vote for who you think would be best for this country when you can vote for the simple matter of sticking it to someone you don't like. How can this country fail with voting fundamentals like that? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I identify myself as libertarian but vote republican because beating democrats is more important than damn near anything. The real problem with most libertarians isn't that they vote libertarian. There aren't enough that do that to really make a huge difference in the big picture. It's that they demonize republicans. I have lots of libertarians on facebook as friends and they spent a lot of their time not only bashing republican candidates but perpetuating the same lies about them as the left does. They didn't seem to spend much time at all promoting the benefits of their candidate. Mostly just shit talking Romney. I think this kind of behavior helped hurt Romney a LOT in the elections and did nothing for the libertarian candidate who couldn't win in the first place. They bashed Obama a bit but Romney bashing was at least 80 percent of their platform. NICE! Why vote for who you think would be best for this country when you can vote for the simple matter of sticking it to someone you don't like. How can this country fail with voting fundamentals like that? Fundamentals or not, every time a Dem/lib wins, we lose big time because they start giving out free stuff. |
|
Quoted: You hit the nail on the head. Quoted: Quoted: I identify myself as libertarian but vote republican because beating democrats is more important than damn near anything. The real problem with most libertarians isn't that they vote libertarian. There aren't enough that do that to really make a huge difference in the big picture. It's that they demonize republicans. I have lots of libertarians on facebook as friends and they spent a lot of their time not only bashing republican candidates but perpetuating the same lies about them as the left does. They didn't seem to spend much time at all promoting the benefits of their candidate. Mostly just shit talking Romney. I think this kind of behavior helped hurt Romney a LOT in the elections and did nothing for the libertarian candidate who couldn't win in the first place. They bashed Obama a bit but Romney bashing was at least 80 percent of their platform. NICE! Why vote for who you think would be best for this country when you can vote for the simple matter of sticking it to someone you don't like. How can this country fail with voting fundamentals like that? Fundamentals or not, every time a Dem/lib wins, we lose big time because they start giving out free stuff.  |
