Posted: 6/8/2010 9:55:38 AM EDT
| When does the new CC law come into effect? |
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It's crap. Cities cannot regulate the carry of firearms except in certain circumstances, namely parks (which pretty much goes away due to a different law) and city-owned buildings. To say you can't carry concealed in cities is bullshit.
Either they're misinterpreting the law, slightly misstating it for marketing purposes or are flat-out lying. Make them cite the specifc ARS which allows the cities to do this. As for the Shooter's World list, well, they're partially right. The National Park Service says if you're legal to carry in your state, you're legal in the parks. Regarding the schools issue...they're sorta/kinda right. If you read the actual 'letter of the law' for the Gun Free Schools Act, it does seem to limit carry within 1,000 of a school unless you have a permit. However, the original law was ruled unconstitutional, and Congress basically re-passed the exact same law, which has never been enforced AFAIK and, therefore, never challenged. There is a provision for non-CCW holders if you live within that distance (i.e. gun from home to vehicle in order to go to the range or wherever), but I've never heard of anyone in Arizona arrested for violating that federal statute. CCW in restaurants that serve alcohol will still require a CCW permit, as will reciprocity with other states should you visit them (exc Alaska and Vermont). No CCW permit is required to purchase a gun, it just makes it easier because it acts as a NICS bypass for the purchase. |
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From the Shooters World web page
Think You Know Your Privileges?
The new Constitutional Carry Law DOES NOT Provide the Same Rights as the CCW Permit Holder Benefits of a Carrying Concealed Weapons (CCW) Permit •Ability to carry a concealed weapon within 1,000 feet of a school. It is almost impossible to travel through the Metropolitan Phoenix area without crossing a 1,000 foot boundary of a school. You will need a permit to conceal carry throughout the valley. (Federal Law) •A permit to carry a weapon in Arizona’s National Parks. If you want to carry concealed in National Parks located in Arizona (Grand Canyon) you need a permit. (Federal Law) •Reciprocity to conceal carry in twenty five other states. If you plan on travelling and carrying concealed a permit is a must. (Arizona Law) •One does not need a background check when purchasing a weapon, just show your permit with your identification. (Brady Bill) •You need a conceal carry permit to carry your weapon in a commercial establishment that serves alcohol. If the establishment is not posted you may carry a concealed weapon into the bar if you have a permit and you do not consume alcohol there. (Arizona Law) •When you take a concealed carry class you learn the laws of when you can use deadly force. 20 |
How in the hell can Congress just reenact something found unconstitutional? 
Anyway, reading through GFSC Act of '96, I see a few things I wounder about. (2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone. With in sight of a school or school crossing signs? (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm— (i) on private property not part of school grounds; (iii) that is— (I) not loaded; and (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle; Cars are considered private property here, aren't they? (26) The term “school” means a school which provides elementary or secondary education, as determined under State law. Just grades 1-12 |
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(i) on private property not part of school grounds; Cars are considered private property here, aren't they? Not within the context of this law. It's meant to deal with people who own firearms, and the firearms being in their homes. The vehicle issue is covered under the other section, so it wouldn't apply to that. US v. Lopez was the case that overturned it. How can they do this? They changed some wording to address the Interstate Commerce nexus that was missing from the original version. Wikipedia Congress re-enacted the law in the GFSZ Act of 1996, following the Supreme Court's ruling, correcting the technical defects identified by the Court by adding wording placing the burden on the prosecutor to prove an additional element, that the "firearm has moved in or otherwise affects interstate commerce."
Also, re: school zone: within 1,000 feet: The term school zone means in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school; or within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school.
Gun Owners of America explains it as well. Pay particular attention to the discussion concerning home-schools. Finally, here's a .pdf from the Duke Law School that analyzes it pretty well. It's twenty-six pages, and it's legal analysis. You have been warned. :) |
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Think You Know Your Privileges?
The new Constitutional Carry Law DOES NOT Provide the Same Rights as the CCW Permit Holder Benefits of a Carrying Concealed Weapons (CCW) Permit •Ability to carry a concealed weapon within 1,000 feet of a school. It is almost impossible to travel through the Metropolitan Phoenix area without crossing a 1,000 foot boundary of a school. You will need a permit to conceal carry throughout the valley. (Federal Law) •A permit to carry a weapon in Arizona’s National Parks. If you want to carry concealed in National Parks located in Arizona (Grand Canyon) you need a permit. (Federal Law) •Reciprocity to conceal carry in twenty five other states. If you plan on travelling and carrying concealed a permit is a must. (Arizona Law) •One does not need a background check when purchasing a weapon, just show your permit with your identification. (Brady Bill) •You need a conceal carry permit to carry your weapon in a commercial establishment that serves alcohol. If the establishment is not posted you may carry a concealed weapon into the bar if you have a permit and you do not consume alcohol there. (Arizona Law) •When you take a concealed carry class you learn the laws of when you can use deadly force. Why would I need a permit to CCW at the Grand Canyon after July 29? |
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Think You Know Your Privileges?
The new Constitutional Carry Law DOES NOT Provide the Same Rights as the CCW Permit Holder Benefits of a Carrying Concealed Weapons (CCW) Permit •Ability to carry a concealed weapon within 1,000 feet of a school. It is almost impossible to travel through the Metropolitan Phoenix area without crossing a 1,000 foot boundary of a school. You will need a permit to conceal carry throughout the valley. (Federal Law) •A permit to carry a weapon in Arizona’s National Parks. If you want to carry concealed in National Parks located in Arizona (Grand Canyon) you need a permit. (Federal Law) •Reciprocity to conceal carry in twenty five other states. If you plan on travelling and carrying concealed a permit is a must. (Arizona Law) •One does not need a background check when purchasing a weapon, just show your permit with your identification. (Brady Bill) •You need a conceal carry permit to carry your weapon in a commercial establishment that serves alcohol. If the establishment is not posted you may carry a concealed weapon into the bar if you have a permit and you do not consume alcohol there. (Arizona Law) •When you take a concealed carry class you learn the laws of when you can use deadly force. Why would I need a permit to CCW at the Grand Canyon after July 29? OPEN CARRY NO PERMIT! |
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Think You Know Your Privileges?
The new Constitutional Carry Law DOES NOT Provide the Same Rights as the CCW Permit Holder Benefits of a Carrying Concealed Weapons (CCW) Permit •Ability to carry a concealed weapon within 1,000 feet of a school. It is almost impossible to travel through the Metropolitan Phoenix area without crossing a 1,000 foot boundary of a school. You will need a permit to conceal carry throughout the valley. (Federal Law) •A permit to carry a weapon in Arizona’s National Parks. If you want to carry concealed in National Parks located in Arizona (Grand Canyon) you need a permit. (Federal Law) •Reciprocity to conceal carry in twenty five other states. If you plan on travelling and carrying concealed a permit is a must. (Arizona Law) •One does not need a background check when purchasing a weapon, just show your permit with your identification. (Brady Bill) •You need a conceal carry permit to carry your weapon in a commercial establishment that serves alcohol. If the establishment is not posted you may carry a concealed weapon into the bar if you have a permit and you do not consume alcohol there. (Arizona Law) •When you take a concealed carry class you learn the laws of when you can use deadly force. Why would I need a permit to CCW at the Grand Canyon after July 29? OPEN CARRY NO PERMIT! Just because you're yelling doesn't mean you're making sense. Never in the state of Arizona have we ever had to have a permit to OC. So what's your point? What does that have to do with Shooter's World claiming federal law requires you to have a CC permit if you want to carry concealed in National Parks? |
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Think You Know Your Privileges?
The new Constitutional Carry Law DOES NOT Provide the Same Rights as the CCW Permit Holder Benefits of a Carrying Concealed Weapons (CCW) Permit •Ability to carry a concealed weapon within 1,000 feet of a school. It is almost impossible to travel through the Metropolitan Phoenix area without crossing a 1,000 foot boundary of a school. You will need a permit to conceal carry throughout the valley. (Federal Law) •A permit to carry a weapon in Arizona’s National Parks. If you want to carry concealed in National Parks located in Arizona (Grand Canyon) you need a permit. (Federal Law) •Reciprocity to conceal carry in twenty five other states. If you plan on travelling and carrying concealed a permit is a must. (Arizona Law) •One does not need a background check when purchasing a weapon, just show your permit with your identification. (Brady Bill) •You need a conceal carry permit to carry your weapon in a commercial establishment that serves alcohol. If the establishment is not posted you may carry a concealed weapon into the bar if you have a permit and you do not consume alcohol there. (Arizona Law) •When you take a concealed carry class you learn the laws of when you can use deadly force. Why would I need a permit to CCW at the Grand Canyon after July 29? OPEN CARRY NO PERMIT! Just because you're yelling doesn't mean you're making sense. Never in the state of Arizona have we ever had to have a permit to OC. So what's your point? What does that have to do with Shooter's World claiming federal law requires you to have a CC permit if you want to carry concealed in National Parks? wasn't yelling just type in all caps sometimes There wasn't open carry in the NATIONAL PARKS until the law changed recently. An you don't need a permit unlike to carry concealed in the national parks. So someone without a permit has the option to carry. NATIONAL PARK SERVICE WEBSITE http://www.nps.gov/grca/parkmgmt/upload/Firearms-in-IMRparks2-2010.pdf Congress approved a new law allowing loaded firearms in national parks starting Feb. 22, 2010. That means people can openly carry legal handguns, rifles, shotguns and other firearms and also may carry concealed guns as allowed by state statute. While this law changes gun regulations in national parks, there are still many important restrictions on the transportation and use of guns under state and federal laws: • Although it is now legal to carry loaded guns in national parks, guns cannot be fired except in rare circumstances. Hunting is illegal in most national parks except under special permits. Target practice also is banned. • For national security reasons, guns cannot be carried into federal facilities within national parks. Notice of this rule will be clearly displayed outside all federal facilities. If you are unsure if a park building is a federal facility, look for a sign or ask a park ranger. • If you can possess firearms legally according to the laws of the state in which a park is located, you can generally carry them in that park. • A permit is required to carry concealed weapons. Some concealed-weapons permits are recognized in multiple states, but many are not. It is the gun owner’s responsibility to know and understand what laws apply. • Not all guns are legal. Revolvers, shotguns and semiautomatic firearms are legal, for instance, but fully automatic guns may not be depending on the state. • It is illegal in most states to carry a gun while under the influence of alcohol or illegal drugs. • The new federal law applies state law to the possession of guns in national parks. Because some national parks are in more than one state, the laws governing firearms may change depending on your location within that park. It is your responsibility to understand individual state laws and to know which state you are in when in a multistate national park. • Guns may not be allowed on shuttle buses, ferries or boats within certain national parks, depending on the state. • State laws governing minimum for possession of guns vary widely. In most states, you must be at least 18 years old. It is the responsibility of those with guns to understand these laws for the state and park in which they carry firearms. • Other weapons such as bows, swords, and pellet or BB guns are not affected by the new law and remain prohibited by the National Park Service. National Park Service law enforcement rangers are trained to explain and enforce firearms laws. But gun owners are legally responsible for understanding federal, state and local laws, which vary widely from state to state. It also is the owner’s responsibility to ensure that guns are stored safely. |
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Think You Know Your Privileges?
The new Constitutional Carry Law DOES NOT Provide the Same Rights as the CCW Permit Holder Benefits of a Carrying Concealed Weapons (CCW) Permit •Ability to carry a concealed weapon within 1,000 feet of a school. It is almost impossible to travel through the Metropolitan Phoenix area without crossing a 1,000 foot boundary of a school. You will need a permit to conceal carry throughout the valley. (Federal Law) •A permit to carry a weapon in Arizona’s National Parks. If you want to carry concealed in National Parks located in Arizona (Grand Canyon) you need a permit. (Federal Law) •Reciprocity to conceal carry in twenty five other states. If you plan on travelling and carrying concealed a permit is a must. (Arizona Law) •One does not need a background check when purchasing a weapon, just show your permit with your identification. (Brady Bill) •You need a conceal carry permit to carry your weapon in a commercial establishment that serves alcohol. If the establishment is not posted you may carry a concealed weapon into the bar if you have a permit and you do not consume alcohol there. (Arizona Law) •When you take a concealed carry class you learn the laws of when you can use deadly force. Why would I need a permit to CCW at the Grand Canyon after July 29? OPEN CARRY NO PERMIT! Just because you're yelling doesn't mean you're making sense. Never in the state of Arizona have we ever had to have a permit to OC. So what's your point? What does that have to do with Shooter's World claiming federal law requires you to have a CC permit if you want to carry concealed in National Parks? wasn't yelling just type in all caps sometimes Gotcha. Now back to the question at hand. Shooter's World claims that you must have a CCW permit to carry concealed at the Grand Canyon and that it's federal law. They tout this as a benefit of having a CCW when the law takes effect that allows permit-less CCW. I do not believe this to be true. After July 29, you will be able to carry at the GC, with or without a permit, open or concealed. Correct? |
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Shooter's world is wrong. Long of short, here's the Coburn amendment:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/amendment.xpd?session=111&amdt=s1067 Nowhere does it allow for the requirement of a permit of any type. Much like local municipalities have done in Arizona, the NPS seems to have taken it upon themselves to interpret the new law as they see fit, whether by malicious intent, or idiocy. Additionally: http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_public_laws&docid=f:publ024.111.pdf Page 32 and 33 are relevant. And just for added fun: http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=e00f2bd79d46c2ee441f2c774e147e6d&rgn=div8&view=text&node=50:6.0.1.2.10.4.1.2&idno=50 The law as it is written and enacted: § 27.42 Firearms.
Only the following persons may possess, use, or transport firearms on national wildlife refuges in accordance with this section and applicable Federal and State law: (a) Persons using firearms for public hunting under the provisions of 50 CFR part 32. (b) Persons carrying unloaded firearms, that are dismantled or cased, in vehicles and boats over routes of travel designated under the provision of subchapter C. (c) Persons authorized to use firearms for the taking of specimens of wildlife for scientific purposes. (d) Persons authorized by special regulations or permits to possess or use firearms for the protection of property, for field trials, and other special purposes. (e) Notwithstanding any other provision in this Chapter, persons may possess, carry, and transport concealed, loaded, and operable firearms within a national wildlife refuge in accordance with the laws of the state in which the wildlife refuge, or that portion thereof, is located, except as otherwise prohibited by applicable Federal law. |
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Whats this crap I keep hearing you can't conceal in Phoenix with the new law? Two gun store owners have told me this and this is on shooters worlds website. http://www.azshootersworld.com/go2/concealed_carry_weapons.cfm They are full of shit. May be trying to keep people paying for CCW courses. As for the GFSZ bit, I live across the street from a school. I know that the federal law exempts me while I'm at home, but I walk to the store open carrying all the time. I have spoken to police officers while carrying and standing directly across the street from the school. Not a word is ever said about it. I don't believe anyone is ever going to be arrested on that law in AZ unless they were doing something else wrong. |