Posted: 2/3/2010 3:46:57 PM EDT
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Why in the hell don't the bureaucrats cut their spending instead of trying to raise taxes at every turn. Now it is a proposed tax on groceries.....................
When every voter is making less money, they cut back. This makes less tax money. Cutting back government and spending would seem to be the logical thing to do. 
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Why in the hell don't the bureaucrats cut their spending instead of trying to raise taxes at every turn. Now it is a proposed tax on groceries..................... We've had this in Glendale for years. I actually sponsored two initiatives to try and get it onto the ballot for a vote to remove the tax...the city fought it tooth and nail and got it tossed both times on technicalities. My understanding is the Maricopa Libertarian party is working to file an initiative to overturn Phoenix's decision....they'll need petition circulators and/or cash for the effort. p.s. I am not involved in it. |
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I went to Iraq for this bullshit? I feel like I slipped into some fucked up parallel universe. Some admiral in on the radio saying how "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" rides heavy on his conscious and our PRESIDENT gives more money TO FUCKING BILLIONAIRES to fix the economy? We GIVE MONEY to bank who then in turn toss us out of our homes when we can;t pay them and now they want to add more taxes to necessities...
This happened once before and the when asked what the people would eat the Lady replied "Let them eat cake"... |
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MTpint, I'm just curious as to how much you are willing to keep forking out?How's the light rail working out?  What is you and your familiy's safety and protection worth...... 
Yeah, that's it, cut funding the guy's and gals out there putting it on the line everyday on city streets and doing things you cannot even fathom while you sleep soundly in your bed......sleep well...... 
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Politicians in every city always play the same game when they raise taxes. They tell the peasants that they're going to have to lay off police, firemen and teachers. The peasants willingly pay the new taxes to save the jobs of these vital workers. But.... the reality is that the cities are wasting most of our dollars on stupid projects and overpaid bureaucrats. Those fat cats don't get a cut in pay. They don't get laid off. When the peasants pay the increased taxes, the fat cats continue to pull down the big bucks and laugh at the scam that they've pulled on us. Check out this article in the AZ Republic. It has a couple of links that let you see how much these bureaucrats get paid. Managers, Assistants to Managers, Deputy Assistants to Managers, Assistants to Deputy Assistants, etc. Pay attention to Jack Harris who gets paid $193,378 plus benefits in his position as Public Safety Manager. He retired from his Chief of Police job then took the same job with a different title so he could collect his Chief's pension while making a fat salary with his new title. If he wasn't double dipping, the city could pay for three or four street cops with the money saved. Instead of cutting the waste at the top, the city threatens to lay off cops and firemen. This tactic gets the approval from the peasants so the fat cats can still keep their cushy jobs. Phil Gordon can keep all his perks - including his trips all over the globe. The Light Rail which operates at a loss can keep running. They are playing us like a violin. |
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Quoted: Politicians in every city always play the same game when they raise taxes. They tell the peasants that they're going to have to lay off police, firemen and teachers. The peasants willingly pay the new taxes to save the jobs of these vital workers. But.... the reality is that the cities are wasting most of our dollars on stupid projects and overpaid bureaucrats. Those fat cats don't get a cut in pay. They don't get laid off. When the peasants pay the increased taxes, the fat cats continue to pull down the big bucks and laugh at the scam that they've pulled on us. Check out this article in the AZ Republic. It has a couple of links that let you see how much these bureaucrats get paid. Managers, Assistants to Managers, Deputy Assistants to Managers, Assistants to Deputy Assistants, etc. Pay attention to Jack Harris who gets paid $193,378 plus benefits in his position as Public Safety Manager. He retired from his Chief of Police job then took the same job with a different title so he could collect his Chief's pension while making a fat salary with his new title. If he wasn't double dipping, the city could pay for three or four street cops with the money saved. Instead of cutting the waste at the top, the city threatens to lay off cops and firemen. This tactic gets the approval from the peasants so the fat cats can still keep their cushy jobs. Phil Gordon can keep all his perks - including his trips all over the globe. The Light Rail which operates at a loss can keep running. They are playing us like a violin. ... Precisely, word by fucking word |
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Politicians in every city always play the same game when they raise taxes. They tell the peasants that they're going to have to lay off police, firemen and teachers. The peasants willingly pay the new taxes to save the jobs of these vital workers. But.... the reality is that the cities are wasting most of our dollars on stupid projects and overpaid bureaucrats. Those fat cats don't get a cut in pay. They don't get laid off. When the peasants pay the increased taxes, the fat cats continue to pull down the big bucks and laugh at the scam that they've pulled on us. Check out this article in the AZ Republic. It has a couple of links that let you see how much these bureaucrats get paid. Managers, Assistants to Managers, Deputy Assistants to Managers, Assistants to Deputy Assistants, etc. Pay attention to Jack Harris who gets paid $193,378 plus benefits in his position as Public Safety Manager. He retired from his Chief of Police job then took the same job with a different title so he could collect his Chief's pension while making a fat salary with his new title. If he wasn't double dipping, the city could pay for three or four street cops with the money saved. Instead of cutting the waste at the top, the city threatens to lay off cops and firemen. This tactic gets the approval from the peasants so the fat cats can still keep their cushy jobs. Phil Gordon can keep all his perks - including his trips all over the globe. The Light Rail which operates at a loss can keep running. They are playing us like a violin. ... Precisely, word by fucking word
This, exactly! |
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MTpint, I'm just curious as to how much you are willing to keep forking out?How's the light rail working out? What is you and your familiy's safety and protection worth......
Yeah, that's it, cut funding the guy's and gals out there putting it on the line everyday on city streets and doing things you cannot even fathom while you sleep soundly in your bed......sleep well......
Get a grip.
I sleep very well. I have some ocean front property in Ajo if you're interested. You might also find Hipster's reply interesting too. |
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MTpint, I'm just curious as to how much you are willing to keep forking out?How's the light rail working out? What is you and your familiy's safety and protection worth......
Yeah, that's it, cut funding the guy's and gals out there putting it on the line everyday on city streets and doing things you cannot even fathom while you sleep soundly in your bed......sleep well......
Get a grip.
I sleep very well. I have some ocean front property in Ajo if you're interested. You might also find Hipster's reply interesting too. Agreed, I'm glad you bought into the scare tactic they used to justify the food tax.
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I agree with what you all said this tax is bullshit, but its the only option these fuck-ups came up with. All this started like 3-4 years ago and NONE of them did a damn thing to address it. Instead they spent our money on bullshit projects hoping the money next year will be the same or more then the year before. So this is what we are stuck with and I hear one of these fucks already wants to raise it. But cutting P.D. and Fire would be bad. Phoenix can be a real fucked up place and most of the shit that happens out there you will never see or hear about on good morning Arizona. |
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I hear one of these fucks already wants to raise it. The head of the police union basically said every other city employee should be fired before one cop or FF is let go, and he thinks the food tax should have been 4 percent to cover the costs. Now, I might not debate him on the "every other city employee must go" part, but doubling the food tax is bullshit. I like cops and firefighters, but to expect that EVERY other employee must give, yet these shouldn't, is asinine. Sure, PD and Fire are core services, but so are water, sanitation and passable roads. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I hear one of these fucks already wants to raise it. The head of the police union basically said every other city employee should be fired before one cop or FF is let go, and he thinks the food tax should have been 4 percent to cover the costs. Now, I might not debate him on the "every other city employee must go" part, but doubling the food tax is bullshit. I like cops and firefighters, but to expect that EVERY other employee must give, yet these shouldn't, is asinine. Sure, PD and Fire are core services, but so are water, sanitation and passable roads. I didn't know who it was what an asshat P.D. and Fire are trying to help out, some were taking days off without pay but were never told what impact that was having. Glendale Fire already agreed to not get a raise, pay for their own uniforms (PHX already dose) and temporarily close a station. |
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I hear one of these fucks already wants to raise it. The head of the police union basically said every other city employee should be fired before one cop or FF is let go, and he thinks the food tax should have been 4 percent to cover the costs. Now, I might not debate him on the "every other city employee must go" part, but doubling the food tax is bullshit. I like cops and firefighters, but to expect that EVERY other employee must give, yet these shouldn't, is asinine. Sure, PD and Fire are core services, but so are water, sanitation and passable roads. +1 And for the record, Surprise firefighters are asking for a raise. |
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Phoenix gives OK to 2% tax on food
Move will help fix budget, save Police, Fire dept. jobs by Scott Wong - Feb. 3, 2010 12:00 AM The Arizona Republic Desperate to save police, fire and other city jobs, a divided Phoenix City Council on Tuesday approved a sales tax on grocery items that will generate tens of millions of dollars a year. The 2 percent food tax will take effect April 1 and expire after five years, though Mayor Phil Gordon said the council has the option of reversing its decision after it hears from the public during 15 budget hearings planned for this month. The tax on milk, meat, vegetables and other food purchased by shoppers will generate an estimated $12.5 million for the fiscal year that ends June 30. It will raise another $50 million for fiscal 2011. Food purchased with food stamps will not be taxed. The extra tax revenue means Phoenix will have more money in its coffers to help close a $241 million general-fund budget deficit through June 2011. Last week, budget officials proposed cutting $140 million in services. Other special funds for things like transit also could get money. City Manager David Cavazos proposed eliminating 1,379 citywide positions, including nearly 500 police officers and firefighters. Among the dozens of targeted cuts, libraries and senior centers would be closed, an after-school program would be dismantled, and bus and light-rail service would be significantly reduced. It's unclear exactly where the extra money would be allocated. On Feb. 9, Cavazos and other staff will offer options of how they can reverse proposed cuts using food-tax revenue. Phoenix shoppers who buy paper towels, toothpaste and other non-food items at a grocery store already pay an 8.3 percent sales tax, 2 percent of which goes to the city. But Phoenix has not taxed food items since the early 1980s. After Tuesday's vote, Mesa and Surprise are the only Valley cities that do not tax food items, though Surprise is eyeing a 1 percent food tax. Elizabeth Van Wie told the council that the tax will be devastating for her family of six, which spends $900 to $1,300 a month on groceries. Business at the Van Wies' car wash has taken a 60 percent dive during the recession, and the family has begun growing vegetables to save money. She suggested taxing fast food, cigarettes or alcohol, instead. "To tax a basic need for my family is disastrous," said Van Wie, her four young children in tow. But union leaders argued the tax would keep more police officers and firefighters on the streets and emergency response times down. Pete Gorraiz, president of the United Phoenix Firefighters Association, said city budget officials told him the food tax could provide a $6.9 million boost to the fire budget, saving nearly 40 firefighters' jobs and up to eight civilian employees. The extra revenue would spare three engine companies and an ambulance. "There are services, and there are critical services," Gorraiz said. "In our business, if you start taking away our ability to meet response times, it's literally the difference between life and death." Council members approved the tax on a 6-3 vote, with council members Sal DiCiccio, Bill Gates and Peggy Neely dissenting. DiCiccio called the tax regressive, saying it harms the working poor, seniors and others on fixed incomes. Gates and Neely said they objected to pushing the tax through without giving residents enough time to have their say. Gordon had called for a special meeting just 24 hours earlier so the council could vote on the tax. "We need to wait until everyone has had an opportunity to weigh in before we vote on this food tax. That is the Phoenix way of doing things," Gates said during the four-hour meeting. "I'm concerned this will enflame some people who will say, 'I didn't have the opportunity to be heard.' " Gordon said that the sooner the council adopted the tax, the more money there would be to reduce proposed cuts. Implementing the tax in April means the city would have an extra $12.5 million for the current fiscal year. Added Councilman Michael Nowakowski, an early supporter of the tax: "We're investing in our kids, we're investing in our seniors, we're investing in our libraries and our parks. We're investing in our future." But local grocers and shoppers said Phoenix's food tax will hit them in their pocketbooks at a time they can least afford it. "You can't do that to people right now in this market. They're being crunched in every possible way, and this was the only area they were not being taxed on," said Ken Schnitzer, owner of Luci's Healthy Marketplace, a specialty grocery store that opened last year in Phoenix. "We're a new business that is trying to make it," he added. "Obviously, this will hurt our sales because people can't spend much money, and these are essentials that people need on a daily basis." Buying cookies and other snacks at Bashas' Supermarket at Seventh Avenue and Osborn Road, Mark Evertz, a snowbird from Montana, said he may start spending winters in Mesa or another community that doesn't tax food items. "It doesn't take long before a few pennies here and a few pennies there start to add up," said Evertz, 59, a disabled veteran who relies on his fixed pension benefits.
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Glendale Fire already agreed to not get a raise, pay for their own uniforms (PHX already dose) and temporarily close a station. Glendale FD has nothing to do with Phoenix's imposition of a food tax. Glendale has had a food tax for as long as I've lived here (20 years). |
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drive down 7th ave below buckeye and north of the 17 freeway, look left and right, those tax dollars are being taken advantage of. These should be cut down and the FD/PD would have their money.
The heavy presence of gas guzzling Suv's does make sympathy difficult too. I Support the police and FD, but they're using you to strongarm us. |
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Well look at the bright side...The Illegals will have to pay this the same as the rest of us... Not if they are on food-stamps
Two excellent points. Kick the illegals off assistance and out of the country. THEN move ALL of our taxes to a sales tax. Nobody skates. |
Funny how the city can afford to give huge tax breaks to their corporate cronies but they are "forced" to raise taxes on the citizens suckers.  Institute sues to see Wyndham deal recordsGoldwater wants to examine if city tax |
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I know the economy blows and I will gladly pay the tax to keep Fire and P.D. working. (they are already down head count and in the next two years its going to get lower from retirements) But Gorden and the rest of his fucking slapasses need to get the fuck out. SInce this is a Phoenix tax I will shop for food in Glendale. Tired of the overspending and then tax us for it. I will take care of my own personal security. |
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Thank God for Luke AFB and my retired ID card. My dad was right, sticking with the Reserves, even with the BS, two year post-9/11 activation, (mind you, not a problem, I was honored to serve), the boring drill weekends, all the weapons quals (Ok, I really kinda enjoyed the shit outta that) the really boring classroom time, (NBC class anyone?) etc. the rewards have been great. Tax free shopping kicks ass.
Bragging aside, those living on retired or disabled incomes may not have the extra cash to spend and the commissary will probably save their asses. |
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Quoted: Quoted: SInce this is a Phoenix tax I will shop for food in Glendale. Apparently the fact that Glendale has had a grocery tax for over 20 years has escaped you. Peoria recently implemented one, too. I'll gladly pay the sales tax in another city just to send a message to the Phoenix council. The reason why I live in Phoenix is that we used to have tolerable taxes. Our city government was not totally out of control like it is now. Gordon and the rest of the thieves can pound sand. Their tax increase will end up raking in less cash than if they left it alone. |
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AM I the only person who sees somebody putting together a petition drive to make sales taxes on food unconstitutional state wide? It would take what? 3 sentences? Good luck with that. I tried to get the tax in Glendale killed, twice, and the city was able to find some reason to get the initiative tossed. If there's money involved, they will stop at nothing to derail whatever plan there'd be. It might take 3 sentences to do, but it will take an assload of effort and money to get it there. |