Posted: 6/11/2009 11:01:20 AM EDT
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From AzCDL
SB 1270 is the AzCDL-requested “Constitutional Carry” bill that removes the penalty for the lawful carrying of a concealed weapon without a permit. After languishing for almost six months, SB 1270 was finally assigned on June 8, 2009, to the Senate Judiciary Committee. However, it has not been put on any upcoming committee agendas. Time is running out. After almost six months of not hearing any non-budget bills, the Senate is attempting to sprint through about 1,000 bills, jettisoning as many as they can via abbreviated committee hearing schedules. Despite repeated requests, we have been unable to get a commitment from the Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman to hear SB 1270. It’s time to ask you, AzCDL’s membership and supporters, to express YOUR desire to have SB 1270 get a fair hearing. SB 1270 is a huge step towards restoring our Right to Keep and Bear Arms (RKBA) in Arizona , that was severely limited by the infamous 1990 Dano v. Collins Appellate Court decision. In Dano v. Collins, the court determined that the “shall not be impaired” clause in Arizona ’s Constitutional equivalent of the Second Amendment (Article 2, Section 26) did not apply to concealed weapons. This led to the creation of the 1994 concealed carry (CCW) permit law. Dano v. Collins was also the foundation for the confusing 1994 court decisions restricting open carry and where weapons can be carried in vehicles without a CCW permit. It’s time to restore the meaning of Article 2, Section 26 of the Arizona Constitution that says “The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself or the state shall not be impaired….” with the passage of SB 1270. Unfortunately, SB 1270 does not have the support of the National Rifle Association (NRA) and some legislators will use that as cover to avoid supporting this historic bill. We need to let them know that not only are gun owners represented by multiple organizations, but that YOU as Arizona citizens are calling the shots about which bills they should support. It’s time to let the committee leadership know there is a large amount of support for SB 1270 and that they should immediately schedule it for a hearing. The Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee is Senator Jonathon Paton : http://www.azleg.gov/MembersPage.asp?Member_ID=121&Legislature=49 Senator Paton ’s email address is [email protected] . We urge all of you receiving this Alert to contact Senator Paton , politely urging him to delay no further and schedule SB 1270 for a hearing by his committee. A personal letter is always best. Below is a cut-and-paste template you may use as an example. Subject: Please schedule SB 1270 for a hearing Dear Senator Paton, The Arizona Citizens Defense League has informed me that SB 1270 has been assigned to your committee but has yet to be scheduled for a hearing. Time is running out for bills to be heard in the Senate. As the chairman of your committee I urge you to immediately schedule SB 1270 for a hearing so that it can be debated and voted on by your committee before it is too late. The passage of SB 1270 is very important to me. SB 1270 is an historic bill that restores the meaning of “shall not be impaired” in Article 2, Section 26 of the Arizona ’s Constitution, which was severely limited by the 1990 Dano v. Collins Appellate Court decision. Dano v. Collins led to our current concealed carry (CCW) law, and eventually to convoluted court decisions (State v. Adams , State v. Moerman, etc.) that further eroded my right to keep and bear arms openly and in a vehicle. SB 1270 only applies to law-abiding citizens and removes the penalty for the lawful carrying of firearms without a concealed weapons permit. To assist law enforcement, language has been added making it a felony for a person to carry a concealed weapon on their person or in a vehicle in the commission, or attempted commission, of a serious or violent crime. SB 1270 is a classic win-win situation. The rights of law-abiding citizens to protect the lives of themselves and their loved ones have been restored, while enhancing the ability of law enforcement to protect the community. I urge you, as the chairman of your committee, to immediately schedule SB 1270 for a hearing. Sincerely, Your Name Street Address City, AZ zip-code telephone number These alerts are a project of the Arizona Citizens Defense League (AzCDL), an all volunteer, non-profit, non-partisan grassroots organization. AzCDL – Protecting Your Freedom http://www.azcdl.org/html/join_us_.html |
CONCEALED CARRY needs to be a right in this state and nation not a privilege. VERMONT AND ALASKA IT IS A RIGHT TO CARRY OPEN OR CONCEALED WITHOUT A PRIVILEGE PERMIT. If the concealed carry law is corrected, your right can't be taken away. A peace of plastic in your wallet is is not a right. Let's get it right an restore the 2nd amendment . It's about rights. 
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One reason is that without a CCW requirement, there is less need for a CCW, thus fewer CCW instructors, meaning fewer NRA instructors, reducing the amount of money they get in instructor teaching/renewal fees.
Additionally, Constitutional Carry removes pretty much any issue over which to fight about, lessening the need for the NRA overall. One need only to read their announcement today about SB 1113 and how there will be only ONE amendment offered by the NRA and that is the ONLY one you should be asking your senator for support on. |
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E-mails forthcoming. Here's the page for SB1270 to those interested.
http://www.azleg.gov/DocumentsForBill.asp?Bill_Number=sb1270&image.x=0&image.y=0 |
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From an e-mail I just got:
We have even more good news! Your recent emails had a positive effect. Senator Jonathan Paton, the Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, met with AzCDL’s representatives today (June 12, 2009) and agreed to schedule SB 1270, the AzCDL-requested Constitutional Carry bill, for a committee hearing on Monday, June 22, 2009.
We strongly encourage everyone to take the time to contact Senator Paton and thank him for agreeing to hear SB 1270. His office phone number is (602) 926-3235. His fax number is (602) 417-3030. His email address is [email protected]. |
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Quoted:
One reason is that without a CCW requirement, there is less need for a CCW, thus fewer CCW instructors, meaning fewer NRA instructors, reducing the amount of money they get in instructor teaching/renewal fees. Additionally, Constitutional Carry removes pretty much any issue over which to fight about, lessening the need for the NRA overall. One need only to read their announcement today about SB 1113 and how there will be only ONE amendment offered by the NRA and that is the ONLY one you should be asking your senator for support on. But,,, But,,, the NRA is our friend: They just have to be. 
Jay |
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Please take the time to thank Senator Jonathon Paton tomorrow for agreeing to hear SB 1270.
Office (602) 926-3235. Fax (602) 417-3030 [email protected] Here's a quick e-mail template from AZCDL. Writing your own would be better. Subject: Thank you for scheduling SB 1270 for a hearing.
Dear Senator Paton, The Arizona Citizens Defense League has informed me that, as Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, you have agreed to schedule SB 1270 for a hearing on Monday, June 22, 2009. Given the unusual circumstances of this year's legislative session, and the crowded and compressed agendas you must deal with, I deeply appreciate that you were able to schedule SB 1270 for a hearing in your committee. Thank you. Sincerely, Your Name Street Address City, AZ zip-code telephone number |
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Quoted:
CONCEALED CARRY needs to be a right in this state and nation not a privilege. VERMONT AND ALASKA IT IS A RIGHT TO CARRY OPEN OR CONCEALED WITHOUT A PRIVILEGE PERMIT. If the concealed carry law is corrected, your right can't be taken away. A peace of plastic in your wallet is is not a right. Let's get it right an restore the 2nd amendment . It's about rights. Sadly this cash starved state makes a lot of cash from CCW permits , doubt it will go through but it would be nice . |
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In my opinion the practical consequences to the state are likely to be minimal. This benefits most those with a CCW who happen to forget it at home, etc.
How many people here will NOT renew their CCW if this passes? People have become accustomed to reciprocity (for those who travel), ability to bypass the NICS check, etc. This also benefits those who never had a CCW permit, yet carried anyway. |
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Quoted: Any word on if this has gone to committee yet? Its in live debate right now. http://www.azleg.gov/ Click on live proceedings and then I think its in senate hearing room 1. |
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Quoted: who was the guy comparing MA to AZ stats? i caught most of it but got interrupted right in the middle, right as this pro vs con started  and came back as they were voting.Huppenthal, IIRC ETA: His stats didn't even make sense. He claimed that Alaska had the highest murder rate in the country, followed by Arizona. Obviously, that is not the case. AZ is actually number 2 in rate, but not number. DC is number one by a landslide. Alaska is somewhere in the middle. However, Vermont, which allows unpermitted CC is #48. A fact he conveniently didn't mention. Instead glossing over to MA, which supposedly had the lowest (also not correct, according to the stats I found). Neither did he mention all the other states way up on the list with draconian laws. |
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Quoted: Quoted: who was the guy comparing MA to AZ stats? i caught most of it but got interrupted right in the middle, right as this pro vs con started and came back as they were voting.Huppenthal, IIRC ETA: His stats didn't even make sense. He claimed that Alaska had the highest murder rate in the country, followed by Arizona. Obviously, that is not the case. AZ is actually number 2 in rate, but not number. DC is number one by a landslide. Alaska is somewhere in the middle. However, Vermont, which allows unpermitted CC is #48. A fact he conveniently didn't mention. Instead glossing over to MA, which supposedly had the lowest (also not correct, according to the stats I found). Neither did he mention all the other states way up on the list with draconian laws. thanks, i hear you, as soon as i heard that guy start i kind of new where he was going w/ comparing us to MA - hey, lets not bring in demographics or the fact that we are on the border w/ a country that is nearly in a civil war along w/ a huge drug war - real fair comparison. thought he was an assclown... i need to find out what district he is, my luck mine. all this has definitely got me more involved in local and fed politics - paying attention and will vote accordingly and i think quite a few other are really waking up. watching the local sessions really shows quite a lot, just like the frazzled hair lady who said she was embarrased by how the session was(probably because it was not going her way) but nice to see the interaction. i got on Senator Sylvia Allen email list and i definately pay attention when i get one of her updates :) need to join azcdl now along w/ the other memberships i have...  |
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Quoted: so AZ is getting constitutional carry? Not yet. That was just the Committee vote to decide if the full Senate should even hear it. Here's what I got from AZCDL on it.. Today (6/19/09) at about <st1:time hour="16" minute="30" w:st="on">4:30 PM</st1:time>, SB 1270, the AzCDL-requested Constitutional Carry bill that removes the penalty for the lawful carrying of a concealed weapon without a permit, passed out of the Senate Judiciary Committee. The vote was 4 to 3 and fell along party lines. Ironically, some of those speaking in opposition to SB 1270, while praising the existing CCW permit system, were the same people who opposed the introduction of the CCW permit back in 1994 with similar “blood will run in the streets” hyperbole. Law enforcement administrators opposing SB 1270 also spoke of the benefit of <st1:state w:st="on"> <st1:place w:st="on">Arizona</st1:place></st1:state>’s CCW law as a tool for making arrests. From here, SB 1270 must go through the Rules Committee before being debated in the Senate Committee of the Whole (COW). With the accelerated schedule in the Senate, that could be as early as next week. Be ready! HB 2474, which prevents any private or public employer, property owner, etc., from banning any person from keeping a firearm in a locked vehicle in a parking area on the property, with specific limited exceptions, was taken off today’s Senate Judiciary Committee agenda. HB 2474 is now on the Monday, <st1:date ls="trans" month="6" day="22" year="2009" w:st="on">June 22, 2009</st1:date> agenda. The delay is due to HB 2474 being reassigned from the Commerce & Economic Development (CED) Committee to the Senate Judiciary Committee. Also on Monday’s Senate Judiciary agenda is HB 2439, the AzCDL-requested CCW training reform bill that provides for an alternative 4 hour CCW course for first time permit applicants with prior firearms training. SB 1113, the Restaurant Carry bill, was transmitted to the House on <st1:date ls="trans" month="6" day="17" year="2009" w:st="on">June 17, 2009</st1:date> after passing in the Senate. That same day it was assigned to the House Judiciary Committee, but has not yet been scheduled for a hearing. Stay tuned! When critical legislation moves, we will notify you via these Alerts. These alerts are a project of the Arizona Citizens Defense League (AzCDL), an all volunteer, non-profit, non-partisan grassroots organization. AzCDL – Protecting Your Freedom http://www.azcdl.org/html/join_us_.html |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: who was the guy comparing MA to AZ stats? i caught most of it but got interrupted right in the middle, right as this pro vs con started and came back as they were voting.Huppenthal, IIRC ETA: His stats didn't even make sense. He claimed that Alaska had the highest murder rate in the country, followed by Arizona. Obviously, that is not the case. AZ is actually number 2 in rate, but not number. DC is number one by a landslide. Alaska is somewhere in the middle. However, Vermont, which allows unpermitted CC is #48. A fact he conveniently didn't mention. Instead glossing over to MA, which supposedly had the lowest (also not correct, according to the stats I found). Neither did he mention all the other states way up on the list with draconian laws. thanks, i hear you, as soon as i heard that guy start i kind of new where he was going w/ comparing us to MA - hey, lets not bring in demographics or the fact that we are on the border w/ a country that is nearly in a civil war along w/ a huge drug war - real fair comparison. thought he was an assclown... i need to find out what district he is, my luck mine. all this has definitely got me more involved in local and fed politics - paying attention and will vote accordingly and i think quite a few other are really waking up. watching the local sessions really shows quite a lot, just like the frazzled hair lady who said she was embarrased by how the session was(probably because it was not going her way) but nice to see the interaction. i got on Senator Sylvia Allen email list and i definately pay attention when i get one of her updates :) need to join azcdl now along w/ the other memberships i have... I don't really get him. He is generally pretty vocal on firearms rights. In fact, he voted Yes on the restaurant carry bill. Then he pulls out these bullshit stats? Maybe he was hoping someone would call him on it? I don't know. I hope Dave Kopp is more prepared for those next time (not that I'm faulting him, he did a great job). I wish I had been there to punch that fat bitch in the face. She was a fucking idiot. ETA: That scruffy looking blond lady was Meg Burton-Cahill. You can voice your displeasure with her attitude and behavior at: [email protected] |
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Sorry guys. This DOES NOT have my vote. The right to bear arms in this state has NEVER been infringed upon. The Second Amendment does not stipulate "concealment". You're already allowed to open-carry in the public in this state, which is more than most states. This bill will do nothing but allow criminals to carry concealed WITHOUT PENALTY. This bill only helps the criminals, it does nothing to help the law-abiding citizen.
If you are a law-abiding citizen, and you don't have your permit, then GET OFF YOUR ASS and get one. It is easier now than it has ever been. Don't be lazy. Carrying concealed IS NOT a right...it is a privilage for the law-abiding citizens of Arizona. The only people who want this bill to pass are criminals and those too lazy to attend a CCW course! With over 18 Police Chiefs and Sheriffs opposing this bill, I wouldn't hold your breath. There is a reason the NRA is not backing this bill, and it has nothing to do with "kick-backs" from CCW classes. They don't get any "kick-backs". I should know, I teach the CCW class. The reason they don't support it is that it helps criminals, not the law-abiding citizen. PERIOD! I hope, and expect, the bill will fail. |
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Quoted:
Sorry guys. This DOES NOT have my vote. The right to bear arms in this state has NEVER been infringed upon. The Second Amendment does not stipulate "concealment". You're already allowed to open-carry in the public in this state, which is more than most states. This bill will do nothing but allow criminals to carry concealed WITHOUT PENALTY. This bill only helps the criminals, it does nothing to help the law-abiding citizen. If you are a law-abiding citizen, and you don't have your permit, then GET OFF YOUR ASS and get one. It is easier now than it has ever been. Don't be lazy. Carrying concealed IS NOT a right...it is a privilage for the law-abiding citizens of Arizona. The only people who want this bill to pass are criminals and those too lazy to attend a CCW course! With over 18 Police Chiefs and Sheriffs opposing this bill, I wouldn't hold your breath. There is a reason the NRA is not backing this bill, and it has nothing to do with "kick-backs" from CCW classes. They don't get any "kick-backs". I should know, I teach the CCW class. The reason they don't support it is that it helps criminals, not the law-abiding citizen. PERIOD! I hope, and expect, the bill will fail. Hang on boys, Let me get my extinguisher, I bet I'm going to need it for this one 
..............................OK, Fire away |
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Quoted: This bill will do nothing but allow criminals to carry concealed WITHOUT PENALTY. This bill only helps the criminals, it does nothing to help the law-abiding citizen. You don't understand the law very well, do you? They are not a criminal, by legal definition, until they have been convicted of a crime. A felony, in fact, to prevent concealed carry. Do you truly believe that, RIGHT THIS MINUTE, some gangbanger is thinking "Awww, fuck bro. I wuz gunna pack my deagle wit da beamz today, but dat shit's illegal to conceal yo. I betta leave dis heater at home". If you think that, you're dumb. Criminals, by definition don't give a shit what the law says. If they are truly a criminal, the police will be able to arrest them for something else, other than the CCW violation. In fact, little homie, (if legal to ccw under the new law) could legally carry openly and there isn't a damn thing anyone can do about it. Your line of thinking makes absolutely no logical sense. It's all emotion and no fact. Oh, and BTW, all the people opposing this opposed CCW too. Funny how all of those who said how dangerous it was going to be are now the ones pointing to how safe it is..... |
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Quoted: Sorry guys. This DOES NOT have my vote. The right to bear arms in this state has NEVER been infringed upon. The Second Amendment does not stipulate "concealment". You're already allowed to open-carry in the public in this state, which is more than most states. This bill will do nothing but allow criminals to carry concealed WITHOUT PENALTY. This bill only helps the criminals, it does nothing to help the law-abiding citizen. If you are a law-abiding citizen, and you don't have your permit, then GET OFF YOUR ASS and get one. It is easier now than it has ever been. Don't be lazy. Carrying concealed IS NOT a right...it is a privilage for the law-abiding citizens of Arizona. The only people who want this bill to pass are criminals and those too lazy to attend a CCW course! With over 18 Police Chiefs and Sheriffs opposing this bill, I wouldn't hold your breath. There is a reason the NRA is not backing this bill, and it has nothing to do with "kick-backs" from CCW classes. They don't get any "kick-backs". I should know, I teach the CCW class. The reason they don't support it is that it helps criminals, not the law-abiding citizen. PERIOD! I hope, and expect, the bill will fail. so by your definition those that want this to pass are criminals and the lazy. as others have stated, the criminal is going to carry regardless if this is passed or not and is doing it now and as far as the lazy...wtf? for you guys that weren't interrupted watching the pro/con portion w/ speakers, was there not an nra person in attendance? i could have sworn that when i was able to get back to watch it after the pro/con and they read the pro/con sheet, somebody was representing the nra. were they against it? |
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Quoted:
I should know, I teach the CCW class. This. It's all about a guild-member protecting the guild. But this law won't stop criminals from carrying, and if a cop can't make a case on someone who is otherwise lawful in carrying a firearm, then maybe there's no case to be made. That a citizen should be required to get the King's Permission Slip in order to untuck their shirt is asinine. The NRA is not behind this because if it's not for the possible loss of NRA CCW courses, then because it's one less issue the NRA needs to be "needed" to help out on. (ETA: remove what could be perceived as cop-bashing, as that wasn't my intent) |
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Quoted:
Sorry guys. This DOES NOT have my vote. The right to bear arms in this state has NEVER been infringed upon. The Second Amendment does not stipulate "concealment". You're already allowed to open-carry in the public in this state, which is more than most states. This bill will do nothing but allow criminals to carry concealed WITHOUT PENALTY. This bill only helps the criminals, it does nothing to help the law-abiding citizen. If you are a law-abiding citizen, and you don't have your permit, then GET OFF YOUR ASS and get one. It is easier now than it has ever been. Don't be lazy. Carrying concealed IS NOT a right...it is a privilage for the law-abiding citizens of Arizona. The only people who want this bill to pass are criminals and those too lazy to attend a CCW course! With over 18 Police Chiefs and Sheriffs opposing this bill, I wouldn't hold your breath. There is a reason the NRA is not backing this bill, and it has nothing to do with "kick-backs" from CCW classes. They don't get any "kick-backs". I should know, I teach the CCW class. The reason they don't support it is that it helps criminals, not the law-abiding citizen. PERIOD! I hope, and expect, the bill will fail. let us know who/where the classes you teach are so we can avoid your elitist ass in future. |
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just got this email: Hi Everyone –– Quick update on some of the gun bills. SB1270 (constitutional carry) –– this bill is basically dead. The Rules attorney found some problems in the language and there just isn't time to fix it this year, so the sponsor has had to withdraw the bill. It won't go any further, but Senator Allen will get it ready to try again next year. SB1113 (restaurant carry) –– this bill has passed the Senate and moved to the House. It will be heard in a special meeting of the House Judiciary Committee Thursday morning at 9 a.m. You can listen live on the internet at: www.azleg.gov HB2474 (gun in car while at work) –– This bill passed the House but apparently ran into some snags in the Senate, so it's back in the House. It's now SB1168. SB1168 will be heard in the House Appropriations Committee this afternoon at 2 p.m. or as soon as the House gets off the Floor. You can watch this proceeding live today on the internet at: www.azleg.gov (Click on "Live Proceedings" in the left-hand collumn. It will be in House Hearing Room 1.) The House is just beginning their Floor session as I send this. HB2439 –– This bill passed the House and passed the Senate Judiciary Committee. It needs to go to Rules next, but so far hasn't been scheduled. Stay tuned .... Karen Winfield Assistant to Senator Sylvia Allen |
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Blah, blah, blah...Yea I know the law isn't going to stop a criminal from carrying concealed. But, the current law allows officers TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT when they contact a criminal, or someone with criminal intent, that is carrying a concealed weapon. This new bill will prevent that. That's stupid...unless you're the guy with criminal intent. So, if you see a suspicious person walking around your neighborhood, possibly casing the area, you may feel compelled to call the police (and don't tell me you would do someething about it yourself, because that's B.S.). The police make contact with the subject. He has a concealed firearm. If he is a convicted felon (or convicted of a misdemeanor involving domestic violence where his rights were suspended) then that's a no brainer, he gets arrested. But, what if he has been arrested for burglary (or some other neighborhood related crime) in the past, but was never convicted. Under the current law, police can still arrest him and remove him from your neighborhood for Misconduct Involving Weapons. Under this new bill, the police have to let him go and allow him to continue to roam your neighborhood with a concealed weapon. And, that's what you want?...WOW. Carrying concealed is a privilage given to those who live within the boundaries of the law. To give that privilage to those who have not earned it is stupid and disrespectful to those who have earned it. You're allowed to own firearms, and even carry one in the public (open view). Your Second Amendment right HAS NOT been infringed. Nowhere in the Second Amendment is "concealment" a guaranteed right. Therefore, it is a priviliage provided by the state. Whether you like it or not, those are the facts. I'm glad the bill was withdrawn, rejected, whatever. Common sense prevailed again. It had no chance of winning anyway. As for the other bills, I hope they do pass because THEY ACTUALLY BENEFIT the law-abiding citizens. For those of you who commented on my previous post, here is a newsflash for you: - There is no King in this country. You must be lost. Try Europe. - Although you say you wouldn't attend my CCW class, we all know you secretly want to so you could learn more. But, it doesn't matter because I'm denying you anyways. - Unless you're a lawyer, cop, or an avid student of law, don't try debating state law with me because you are most likely misinformed. And lastly, don't bother wasting your time typing some witty response to this post, as I will not be returning to it. The bill is apparently dead. So, therefore, this thread is too. |
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Quoted:
Blah, blah, blah...Yea I know the law isn't going to stop a criminal from carrying concealed. But, the current law allows officers TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT when they contact a criminal, or someone with criminal intent, that is carrying a concealed weapon. This new bill will prevent that. That's stupid...unless you're the guy with criminal intent. So, if you see a suspicious person walking around your neighborhood, possibly casing the area, you may feel compelled to call the police (and don't tell me you would do someething about it yourself, because that's B.S.). The police make contact with the subject. He has a concealed firearm. If he is a convicted felon (or convicted of a misdemeanor involving domestic violence where his rights were suspended) then that's a no brainer, he gets arrested. But, what if he has been arrested for burglary (or some other neighborhood related crime) in the past, but was never convicted. Under the current law, police can still arrest him and remove him from your neighborhood for Misconduct Involving Weapons. Under this new bill, the police have to let him go and allow him to continue to roam your neighborhood with a concealed weapon. And, that's what you want?...WOW. Carrying concealed is a privilage given to those who live within the boundaries of the law. To give that privilage to those who have not earned it is stupid and disrespectful to those who have earned it. You're allowed to own firearms, and even carry one in the public (open view). Your Second Amendment right HAS NOT been infringed. Nowhere in the Second Amendment is "concealment" a guaranteed right. Therefore, it is a priviliage provided by the state. Whether you like it or not, those are the facts. I'm glad the bill was withdrawn, rejected, whatever. Common sense prevailed again. It had no chance of winning anyway. As for the other bills, I hope they do pass because THEY ACTUALLY BENEFIT the law-abiding citizens. For those of you who commented on my previous post, here is a newsflash for you: - There is no King in this country. You must be lost. Try Europe. - Although you say you wouldn't attend my CCW class, we all know you secretly want to so you could learn more. But, it doesn't matter because I'm denying you anyways. - Unless you're a lawyer, cop, or an avid student of law, don't try debating state law with me because you are most likely misinformed. And lastly, don't bother wasting your time typing some witty response to this post, as I will not be returning to it. The bill is apparently dead. So, therefore, this thread is too. We can only hope |
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Quoted: - Although you say you wouldn't attend my CCW class, we all know you secretly want to so you could learn more. But, it doesn't matter because I'm denying you anyways. - Unless you're a lawyer, cop, or an avid student of law, don't try debating state law with me because you are most likely misinformed. James Yeager, is that you?  |
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FYI - JW417G is a police officer, which he conveniently leaves out of his diatribe. If you want to avoid his classes, his school is Pro-Active Training Institute ETA: Check his posts on this board to date. Every one of them is designed to get you to get a CCW. He advises he will arrest you if you carry a pistol, in a case, in your backpack on your motorcycle or ATV if you do not have a CCW. |
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Quoted:
Blah, blah, blah...Yea I know the law isn't going to stop a criminal from carrying concealed. But, the current law allows officers TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT when they contact a criminal, or someone with criminal intent, that is carrying a concealed weapon. This new bill will prevent that. That's stupid...unless you're the guy with criminal intent. This is the sign of someone who has no argument... Quoted:
So, if you see a suspicious person walking around your neighborhood, possibly casing the area, you may feel compelled to call the police (and don't tell me you would do someething about it yourself, because that's B.S.). The police make contact with the subject. He has a concealed firearm. If he is a convicted felon (or convicted of a misdemeanor involving domestic violence where his rights were suspended) then that's a no brainer, he gets arrested. But, what if he has been arrested for burglary (or some other neighborhood related crime) in the past, but was never convicted. Then he had a good chance of being innocent and probably the cops made a mistake and should have never arrested him in the first place. Quoted:
Under the current law, police can still arrest him and remove him from your neighborhood for Misconduct Involving Weapons. Under this new bill, the police have to let him go and allow him to continue to roam your neighborhood with a concealed weapon. And, that's what you want?...WOW. Sometimes to have freedom you take some risks. I think this is acceptable. I have no problem with this because if he enters my house I have my freedoms too... and I will be ready... Quoted:
Carrying concealed is a privilage given to those who live within the boundaries of the law. To give that privilage to those who have not earned it is stupid and disrespectful to those who have earned it. You're allowed to own firearms, and even carry one in the public (open view). Your Second Amendment right HAS NOT been infringed. Nowhere in the Second Amendment is "concealment" a guaranteed right. Therefore, it is a priviliage provided by the state. Whether you like it or not, those are the facts. This is wrong! These are not facts; this is your opinion and/or your interpretation of the law. I strongly believe that you have a right to the opinion/interpretation. I disagree. I also applaud you for standing behind your opinion and I intend to stand behind mine. Quoted:
I'm glad the bill was withdrawn, rejected, whatever. Common sense prevailed again. It had no chance of winning anyway. As for the other bills, I hope they do pass because THEY ACTUALLY BENEFIT the law-abiding citizens. For those of you who commented on my previous post, here is a newsflash for you: - There is no King in this country. You must be lost. Try Europe. - Although you say you wouldn't attend my CCW class, we all know you secretly want to so you could learn more. But, it doesn't matter because I'm denying you anyways. - Unless you're a lawyer, cop, or an avid student of law, don't try debating state law with me because you are most likely misinformed. And lastly, don't bother wasting your time typing some witty response to this post, as I will not be returning to it. The bill is apparently dead. So, therefore, this thread is too. I left this last part in for completeness. Again, I respect you opinion even though I disagree with it. Richard EDT: I just attended my CCW class this past weekend and sent in my paperwork. I still would have gotten the permit even if SB1270 had not died. |
I commented on this on another thread and had to beat a hasty retreat because I had questions about the bill. I too have concerns about the benefits the criminal element would obtain under this...but there is a component that I have not seen addressed....and that is the asshats, the assclowns, dumbasses amongst us! You know who I am talking about! The ones you see when you go to the range violating most of the safety guidelines..muzzle-sweeping the firing line etc! They are the ones that concern me! The Plaxico Burress types who will inevitably fuck it up for us who are trained and have a clue! Again..I am all for the 2A but I would have felt more comfortable if carriers of concealed weapons had an iota of training! You know the gene-pool...all it will take is for a few dumbasses to have a few incidences..brandishing resulting in a shooting for example...and it will result in consequences that we (the trained and the permitted) will have to pay!
This is my opinion as a citizen and a tax-payer!  I apologize in advance to those these comments may offend!
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I commented on this on another thread and had to beat a hasty retreat because I had questions about the bill. I too have concerns about the benefits the criminal element would obtain under this...but there is a component that I have not seen addressed....and that is the asshats, the assclowns, dumbasses amongst us! You know who I am talking about! The ones you see when you go to the range violating most of the safety guidelines..muzzle-sweeping the firing line etc! They are the ones that concern me! The Plaxico Burress types who will inevitably fuck it up for us who are trained and have a clue! Again..I am all for the 2A but I would have felt more comfortable if carriers of concealed weapons had an iota of training! You know the gene-pool...all it will take is for a few dumbasses to have a few incidences..brandishing resulting in a shooting for example...and it will result in consequences that we (the trained and the permitted) will have to pay!
This is my opinion as a citizen and a tax-payer! I apologize in advance to those these comments may offend!I don't see how unlicensed CCW would be any different if the "asshats, the assclowns, dumbasses amongst us" open carry as is legal now? |
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I commented on this on another thread and had to beat a hasty retreat because I had questions about the bill. I too have concerns about the benefits the criminal element would obtain under this...but there is a component that I have not seen addressed....and that is the asshats, the assclowns, dumbasses amongst us! You know who I am talking about! The ones you see when you go to the range violating most of the safety guidelines..muzzle-sweeping the firing line etc! They are the ones that concern me! The Plaxico Burress types who will inevitably fuck it up for us who are trained and have a clue! Again..I am all for the 2A but I would have felt more comfortable if carriers of concealed weapons had an iota of training! You know the gene-pool...all it will take is for a few dumbasses to have a few incidences..brandishing resulting in a shooting for example...and it will result in consequences that we (the trained and the permitted) will have to pay!
This is my opinion as a citizen and a tax-payer! I apologize in advance to those these comments may offend!I don't see how unlicensed CCW would be any different if the "asshats, the assclowns, dumbasses amongst us" open carry as is legal now? I can see them coming!!! |
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So guys, tell me who is more of a threat to our gun rights. Me, with my AR pistol carry at an OC dinner or those who think you should have to have government permission to hide your firearm? Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day Clyde I do not believe you are a threat. You are welcome to OC with anything you want.... those are your rights. I would submit that it is more of a PR issue when you choose to carry something with the sole intent to scare the sheepie. I do believe that you might honestly be trying to promote 2A rights. I think it might be wise to consider a slightly different and arguably more effective approach. I think this issue might be a dead horse so I will not comment further. I would ask you to reconsider your approach. Richard |
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Quoted: So guys, tell me who is more of a threat to our gun rights. Me, with my AR pistol carry at an OC dinner or those who think you should have to have government permission to hide your firearm? Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day Clyde Are you that hard up for attention that you have to bring this up in a completely unrelated thread? ETA: Fuck it. Not worth arguing with you. |
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Hey Kenpo...unfortunately its easy to spook the sheeple. I say carry what you wish but expect reactions when the sheeple see you coming! The sheeple when they get spooked tend to pass laws that make them feel protected! I CC a P220 or a HK USP. Its my choice not to OC that much BUT if I did I wouldnt OC an M249 just cuz it was cool and legal to do so...I know thats a stretch but we have to know the environment we're in. More and more residents from the West continue to flood our state. Our legislators (some) seem out of touch and are just plain ignorant of current and constitutional law. I don't mean to be elitist but unless you have some training (not unlike learning to drive a car) you shouldn't be around firearms period, much less carrying concealed and potentially having to draw down!
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Quoted: Sorry guys. This DOES NOT have my vote. The right to bear arms in this state has NEVER been infringed upon. The Second Amendment does not stipulate "concealment". You're already allowed to open-carry in the public in this state, which is more than most states. This bill will do nothing but allow criminals to carry concealed WITHOUT PENALTY. This bill only helps the criminals, it does nothing to help the law-abiding citizen. If you are a law-abiding citizen, and you don't have your permit, then GET OFF YOUR ASS and get one. It is easier now than it has ever been. Don't be lazy. Carrying concealed IS NOT a right...it is a privilage for the law-abiding citizens of Arizona. The only people who want this bill to pass are criminals and those too lazy to attend a CCW course! With over 18 Police Chiefs and Sheriffs opposing this bill, I wouldn't hold your breath. There is a reason the NRA is not backing this bill, and it has nothing to do with "kick-backs" from CCW classes. They don't get any "kick-backs". I should know, I teach the CCW class. The reason they don't support it is that it helps criminals, not the law-abiding citizen. PERIOD! I hope, and expect, the bill will fail. Go away libtard troll! |
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Hey Kenpo...unfortunately its easy to spook the sheeple. I say carry what you wish but expect reactions when the sheeple see you coming! The sheeple when they get spooked tend to pass laws that make them feel protected! I CC a P220 or a HK USP. Its my choice not to OC that much BUT if I did I wouldnt OC an M249 just cuz it was cool and legal to do so...I know thats a stretch but we have to know the environment we're in. More and more residents from the West continue to flood our state. Our legislators (some) seem out of touch and are just plain ignorant of current and constitutional law. I don't mean to be elitist but unless you have some training (not unlike learning to drive a car) you shouldn't be around firearms period, much less carrying concealed and potentially having to draw down! So what, I could make an identical argument against breeding, having children, or voting for that matter, and you don't need government permission to do either of them, much less an inalienable right enumerated in the Constitution. Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day Clyde |
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Sorry guys. This DOES NOT have my vote. The right to bear arms in this state has NEVER been infringed upon. The Second Amendment does not stipulate "concealment". You're already allowed to open-carry in the public in this state, which is more than most states. This bill will do nothing but allow criminals to carry concealed WITHOUT PENALTY. This bill only helps the criminals, it does nothing to help the law-abiding citizen. If you are a law-abiding citizen, and you don't have your permit, then GET OFF YOUR ASS and get one. It is easier now than it has ever been. Don't be lazy. Carrying concealed IS NOT a right...it is a privilage for the law-abiding citizens of Arizona. The only people who want this bill to pass are criminals and those too lazy to attend a CCW course! With over 18 Police Chiefs and Sheriffs opposing this bill, I wouldn't hold your breath. There is a reason the NRA is not backing this bill, and it has nothing to do with "kick-backs" from CCW classes. They don't get any "kick-backs". I should know, I teach the CCW class. The reason they don't support it is that it helps criminals, not the law-abiding citizen. PERIOD! I hope, and expect, the bill will fail. Go away libtard troll! The NRA is not backing this bill because it would simply eliminate the required firearm instructor certs. to teach the CCW class here in AZ. The NRA will be less all that money if only very few people become Certified Instructors. And those police chiefs came back with some very weak arguments, especially that female Lt. who claimed they'd have just enough to take them to jail "FOR THE NIGHT". Thing is, they used the same arguments against the CCW bill years ago that they're now trying to use yet again, but this time with "praise" for the permitting system. Can't have it both ways. So JW417G If you can't see the irony of their arguments, maybe it's best you move to a more "progressive" state like CA, MA, NJ, NY, IL, etc. where those requirements are very stringent and in accordance with your thoughts. Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day Clyde |