[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Open carry reactions? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 1/15/2007 11:45:49 AM EDT
|
Hi guys, I'm in TX but will be in NM for some skiing next month. Unfortunately us Texans cant open carry. :( I know NM is an open carry state and am considering open carrying while I am there. Does anyone in NM open carry these days, and if so, do you get a reaction? I dont want to stir up a storm with the locals if I would be the only one doing it. Thanks. |
 A few weeks ago I was puting on a bug sheild on a customers truck and as I reached for his hood to pull it down the customer got a glimpse of my revolver, and it went like this.....Him: You gonna get into a gun fight or something? Me: Hope not. Thats all. |
|
The only time I "open carry" is hunting. I prefer the ability to choose if I want to confront someone, and also prefer to maintain the element of surprise. I just have this vision of buying a slurpee at my quicky mart of choice and getting popped when some junkie robs the place and see's my piece on the side of my hip. I don't think I would like the extra attention either. I was in Prescott for a Jazz festival, I went to get out of my chair with my hands full. I couldn't do the usual "small of back ckeck". As I sat back down the guy next to me scooted his chair over and asked about my G-Lock that my shirt failed to cover. Said he felt more comfortable knowing I didn't have it then knowing I did. But also said he liked the fact that I CCW'd, although not well that night. I think when most people see a gun they get a little on edge. Just my opinion. |
+1 on the element of surprise....I've never open carried. To me it's like having a sign on your back that says "SHOOT ME FIRST" 
|
|
For AZ read here: www.arizonashooting.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23459 |
You become the prey when your concealment makes it take a second or two too long for you to draw and you get stabbed, shot, etc. Every violent encounter is a unique incident, and rarely can only one factor be attributable to victory or defeat. When people are ambushed and killed, it's usually mindset...i.e. they didn't see it coming. |
+2! It's like playing poker.....ya don't want to let them know you have a full house! |
|
Any criminal dedicated enough to attack you because you have a weapon, would likely have attacked you anyway. Or would also have noticed your gun printing through your shirt, your Shoot Me first vest, or your fanny pack, and engaged you first because of those. Too many of you view concealment as a time distortion device that allows you to pick the fight of your choosing with no downsides. If you can't intelligently evaluate the limitations/disadvantages of concealment, it may cost you. |
|
in the last 1.5 years of open carry I have had 6-7 POSITIVE comments, and ZERO negative comments and 3-4 "wow you can do that?!" comments.. all ending positivly. I have yet to be shot at. I also realize that most people DONT SEE IT.. kinda wierd. I was open carrying with some friends from work one day for about 2 hours before one of them noticed. I have had other comments like that from others. |
|
|
Open carrying saved me from having to draw my gun on at least two occasions. In the first, I was open carrying into a Pizza Hut, while eating lunch. Unknown to me, there were two guys in the restaurant who were there to rob the place. They saw me, and promptly made an excuse to leave. The manager thought they were acting very odd and made a mental note. They came back an hour later, looked around to make sure I was gone, and promplty robbed the place at gunpoint. When I went back the next week, the manager and I had a very long talk about it. He offered me free lunch every saturday if I would open carry in there. On the second, I was having to walk very late at night in the area known as the "square". I had to walk to the local autozone to get a part for my car, and on my way back I was being followed by a couple of gang members. They walked behind me, and kept gaining on me. The entire time, they were talking in hushed tones. I crossed the street, and they immediately split up. One crossed the street to keep behind me, while the other continued on his side of the street. I stopped beneath a light post, gun side facing them, and looked at the one directly behind me first. He saw the gun on my hip, whistled to his partner and they both turned on their heels and did a 180. Open carrying, as well as paying attention to your surroundings decreases the likelyhood of being a target. It's the same reason we use "the club" in our cars. It is a deterrent to make thugs look for an easier target. |
Well excuse me while I whip this out.... I open carry about 20% of the time at best, but I was in an Albertsons with my daughter when a soccer-mom made some snotty comment to me about "why would anyone need to carry a gun!"....I replied with "Because beating a man to death is alot of work".... Most of you folks yapping are making comment with zero knowledge base. Have you even been in a gun fight or even drawn down on someone? Most of you have little or no training and would most likely just get killed while trying to fumble your gun out of your ass (or where ever you hide it). Try shooting an IDPA match with your actual carry gun/rig or better yet, take a force on force class and MAYBE you’ll be able to make an intelligent response to this issue. |
Mindset...open carry does require a higher state of alertness. Fucked up mindset will get you killed. Concealed Carry lets you be more lazy...if that's what you want to do fine.
And criminals generally like easy victims...they'll leave if they believe you're a threat. The dedicated criminal is the one who will attack you if he knows you're armed, and he would have likely attacked you anyway.
Why would I be in the bank at all? Why didn't I use the drive through? Why am I flirting with the bank teller in what is a more likely place for a robbery to occur? If you don't fight back no matter what, your mindset is fucked. He could very well execute you all anyway. If you lie down hoping your CCW isn't spotted as your shirt comes untucked, you could get shot just as easily. 80% of people shot with handguns live thanks to modern medicine. My mindset is such that I will keep fighting until I can no longer fight. If you can't avoid the fight, you need to be able to shoot the other bastard faster first. Deterrance and Speed outweigh any disadvantages Open carry has the 90% of the time that I do it. |
|
But..but...if youse all open carry, da peeples will get a-scared, and dey will get lawz passed and such, making guns go away...ruining it for all of us. Carry however you want. If I get shot because I was carrying openly, and you can prove that I wouldn't have been shot had I been carrying concealed, you may all laugh at my funeral/memorial service. Otherwise, if folks want to carry openly, OR concealed, let it be their concern, not yours. However...why is this posted in the AZHTF when this question is directed to NM? |
I admire that you open carry.....I just dont feel comfortable with it myself. That being said, if I were a robber, I would rather rob a place where I could "see" my opposition than to wonder who might attack me from behind in the middle of a heist. After-all, action is ALWAYS faster than reaction.....and CCWing gives you not only the choice to "stay out" of a situation that could escalate beyond your means, but it also allows you to get the beat on the perp when he least expects it. |
|
Why am I flirting with the bank teller in what is a more likely place for a robbery to occur you ask? Because I'll flirt with anyone (female of course) anywhere I damn well please, especialy a barely 18 teller girl. It's legal begal and I'm all over it!!  It's not my fault she happened to be a teller and I noticed her in the bank and not the strip club. I guess everyone has their own preference in how they carry. I'm just glad you gun totting bad asses are out there weather you open carry or choose to conceal. A big +1 on the force on force class'. Not much good if I fumble my piece, I hate it when I fumble my piece. |
I opened carried every day from 1999 to 2002 and from 2002 to today I've selectively open carried (conceal carry the rest of the time) here in the Phoenix metro area. I'd say I've had about 10 to 1 of positive comments to negative comments all around the valley. Most of the negative comments were very, very negative. This is AZ though, most people don't care, many remember the old days before CCW when more people open carried. I just saw a person open carrying a rifle on a motorcycle this week, I haven't seen that in about a decade (though I did that once....about a decade ago too  ).
|
Whenever I see someone with open carry at a grocery store or other public venue, I make a point of watching other patrons to see their reactions. There never are any. Most people are oblivious to their surroundings. They have zero situational awareness and don't pay attention to anyone else. Besides, folks are so used to seeing cell phones and other gadgets being carried on belts that they don't differentiate a black gun in a black holster over jeans as anything out of the ordinary. The only people who really look at strangers in stores are guys who are checking out females.  |
why do you think I go to the supermarket. LOL. |
Most people who are creeped out by the guy visibly carrying a gun won't make a comment to him about it. Pay more attention to the number of people who look at you strangely or avoid you like the plague. Personally, I feel completely uncomfortable open carrying. I don't want the unnecessary attention. Plus if I were to get in any sort of verbal or physical altercation, I wouldn't want the other person to be able to say, "he pulled a gun on me, etc"..... It's a long shot, but I am sure it has happened. |
|
ASU.. i watch people very closely, people watching is a hobby of mine.. i genuinly believe that people dont pay attention. I must say tho... every time this comes up its the same people for the same reasons. It seems we can all agree to disagree. We are LUCKY in this state that we have both methods avalable! Cheers to the best firearms state in the country! |
Agreed to the above. I used to think people that open carry jeopardized our gun rights. Now I think that argument is silly. To each their own. |
not to start anything but the wise comments about beating a man to death don't really give gun owners a great image, especially to someone whos already mouthy enough to comment on something like that |
Some people dont have senses of humor either......these are not our problems. |
+1 to this. Get the best training you can. While we may not all be able to afford Gunsite, there are great and much less expensive options. Let me know if anyone wants a reference to a guy that teaches some excellent, budget minded classes.
Damn man! Can you say paranoia??
I'm not trying to be an ass here, Sinistral, but how much training do you have? You make yourself out to be one high speed operator. |
Happened to my Dad. Guy was being rude to my Mom at a local livestock fair, my Dad stood up to go talk to him, shirt got stuck on his 1911, revealing it. Guy got real mouthy like "Oh he's gonna shoot me!" and all that crap. Luckily nothing came of it and the guy slinked away later, but it could've gotten worse if it had gotten verbal or even physical. |
I was given a scenerio that I would likely never intentionally go into. If I am going into a bank, it is for a large cash deposit, and I have 1-2 co-workers with me who are also armed. The best way to win a fight is not to be in one at all...Drive up ATMs are readily available, why would I go into the bank when I have that option? We know banks are places where robberies are likely to occur. I am open carrying. I know I have to have a higher state of alertness when doing this, and I have to be more alert when I am in a place that is likely to be robbed. Why am I flirting with the girl at the counter when I should have a higher state of alertness anyway? ...the whole scenerio was an argument for concealed carry based on the fact it lets you be lazier and less alert. If minimizing risk is paranoia...carrying a gun on a daily basis is certainly paranoia.
Not high speed at all. I take somewhere between 30-100 hours of formal tactical firearms instruction every year, in addition to shooting competitively regularly. I have enough experience to intelligently choose which carry method works best for me. The Force on Force training I have taken has reinforced my belief that open carry is the best option for me. When I need a gun, I need it right now, and those 1 or 2 seconds longer it takes to draw from concealment can make the difference between not getting hurt at all or not very badly, to getting hurt badly or dead. If you don't have the right mindset to fight and win at all costs, to stay in the fight even when you are hurt (which you will find in FoF that in all likelyhood you will be hurt), you probably shouldn't be carrying a gun, your plan should be avoidance and retreat. |
When you are armed, open or not, you have to deliberately avoid confrontation. If it comes down to it, the right answer is always to leave. People generally react worse when a hidden gun becomes visible than when the gun was always visible to begin with. Concealed carry was specifically banned when AZ became a state, because it was what dishonest people did to bushwhack/ambush honest citizens. The minutes from the debate specifically mentioned that honest people carry their guns openly. Would the guy have even been rude to your mother if he had seen your father was armed to begin with? Something to ponder, an armed society is a polite society. |
|
Sinistral, point taken about the alertness level. And it does seem that you have the level of education to back up any claims on what method is best. The idea that a confrontation could have been avoided altogether in my father's case had he been carrying open is worth considering. I suppose a reason that I carry concealed, aside from the whole "tactical advantage", (which is more of an excuse than a reason for me) is that I'm uncomfortable carrying open due to my age. I'm 23 and it seems that people are always seeing a kid carrying a gun when they look at me. Assuming that a sheeple even notices, I guess. What I'm getting at is that I want to avoid any extra attention, so my question to you is, what has your training taught you that points to open carry as a great advantage? And by the way, what is your profession if you don't mind me asking? |
From FoF training, the speed advantage of open carry vs concealed was huge when confronted with a deadly force situation that needed to be solved right then. Universally shooting the other guy before he shoots/stabs you will win the fight. If you recognize someone drawing a weapon from concealment, being faster may allow you to beat them to getting the first shots off...or at least catch up. Regardless of how you carry, you need to take a Force on Force class...otherwise you really have no idea how you would do in a deadly force encounter. I work here: www.cavalryarms.com |
| In crowded areas with lots of people that easily get inside your personal space I generally elect to carry concealed. Some situations it is simply impossible to maintain adequate situational awareness, and in those cases you are likely better off carrying concealed. |
|
I have taken Defensive and Close Combat pistol courses, though I don't know if you could label them "Force on Force". I've taken some great classes that deal very specifically with drawing quickly from various types of concealment. One of my points to concealed carry is also that I have a wife and 2 kids. Sometimes, even though I am still maintaining a good situational awareness, my attention is drawn to them, especially at public places like a theatre or park, when I'm playing with my kids. Or imagine my wife's frustration if, when we finally get a night out alone, we're at dinner and I'm so busy watching everyone else that I can't pay attention to her. Like Rooftop said, since you can't always "watch the door", I'd rather have a chance to not get involved then automatically be involved. Action is always faster than reaction. Now in your line of work, Sinistral, I can see the dangers. Carrying open to avoid any fumbling/snagging is great, and you can always maintain 110% awareness cause that's really all there is on your mind when you're in a bank or out on errands. You say you carry concealed when in a crowd, well in the Valley area, don't you find that to be more often that not when you're out on private (non-work) time? |
+1 This is my situation and why I CCW......If I dont need to be involved, I'll opt for the escape. I am also in the vally so I find it hard to be in public without being in a crowd. |
The restaurants and stores I go to I wouldn't define as crowded most of the time. The Holiday season is a time when most stores are crowded to the point I don't feel comfortable open carrying, as there are simply too many people to avoid getting inside your personal space. The method I use for concealed carry allows me to be half way to drawing without being in any kind of aggressive/threatening stance I'm not trying to convince you guys that you should open carry, just that you shouldn't write it off. We are fortunate to have the option to pick our carry method here in AZ. |
|
I don't think any of us are really trying to convince the other to carry in one particular way or another, but I like to have as much info and hear as many viewpoints as possible on every subject; let's me make a better decision. I don't write off open carry. Sometimes I do it, mostly after hunting or camping and then going into town. I live in Prescott so I'm rarely crowded in a public place and most of the sheeple around here are either used to guns or don't notice them. Guess the most important thing is, however you choose to carry, get as much training as you can and practice, practice, practice. I don't want to hear about anyone here who gets gunned down or hurt badly because you got your pistol wrapped up in your shirt! |
I had absolutely zero problems concealed carrying during the FoF class. It was the first chance I had to take a class so up to then all of my practice had been simply me dry firing and solo at the range. I never felt as if there would have been ANY significant time added to my draw as compared to open carrying. If you train, you can keep the speed along with the other advantages CCW offers. It just takes time. |
The class you took in December didn't have all the scenerios the class I took in September did. As the number of pistol UTM rounds were limited, the December class included rifle scenerios the september class didn't have. In the september class, there were scenerios that involved a lot more suprise, and the role players were more aggressive. Someone trained to equal levels will not be as fast drawing from concealment as someone drawing from an open holster. Close maybe, but not as fast and definitely never faster. You did well because you actually practice a lot....I watched people on multiple occassions mostly in the september class be a total cluster fuck when it came to getting their gun out. Particularly when suprised by a threat less than 10 feet away advancing on them rapidly. Rapid movement and drawing from concealment at the same time, seemed to often not make things go according to plan. |