Eliminate Property Tax in Ohio? (Page 3 of 3)
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Originally Posted By spmx7777: The state Supreme Court said school funding should not rely on property taxes so heavily. The same could be said for income taxes as well. One way or another we end up paying for schools, but it should come more indirectly from state funding. Ohio Supreme Court didn’t say the money couldn’t come from property tax, or if property tax could fully fund schools. Supreme Court says the money needs to be divided fairly amongst all the schools/kids. In a nutshell, the Supreme Court basically says if your city passes a levy to increase your property taxes for education, but mine fails our levy, your district needs to give some of your money to mine, so it is “fair,” because all the kids matter equally. They have said it twice. Nothings happened. They basically are saying all funding needs to come from Columbus, in my mind, which is likely an even worse proposition for taxpayers, especially those with no kids in the schools |
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Originally Posted By AJE: That is still our tax dollars though, I guess I don't see the difference. Originally Posted By AJE: Originally Posted By spmx7777: On the other hand, part of the reason homes are valued by buyers is they’re in a good school district. If you live in a bad school district your home value probably reflects that by being lower than a comparable home in a better school district. — I’m seeing news stories now about school districts putting income tax levies on the ballot instead of property tax levies. They’re trying to stay ahead of the inevitable shift away from property tax based levies. The state Supreme Court said school funding should not rely on property taxes so heavily. The same could be said for income taxes as well. One way or another we end up paying for schools, but it should come more indirectly from state funding. Or just go to private schools for all students.  That is still our tax dollars though, I guess I don't see the difference. Keeping the funding as local as possible is the best, that way your tax dollars go to the schools in town, not to schools across the state. |
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Originally Posted By Ironmaker: Keeping the funding as local as possible is the best, that way your tax dollars go to the schools in town, not to schools across the state. Originally Posted By Ironmaker: Originally Posted By AJE: Originally Posted By spmx7777: On the other hand, part of the reason homes are valued by buyers is they’re in a good school district. If you live in a bad school district your home value probably reflects that by being lower than a comparable home in a better school district. — I’m seeing news stories now about school districts putting income tax levies on the ballot instead of property tax levies. They’re trying to stay ahead of the inevitable shift away from property tax based levies. The state Supreme Court said school funding should not rely on property taxes so heavily. The same could be said for income taxes as well. One way or another we end up paying for schools, but it should come more indirectly from state funding. Or just go to private schools for all students. That is still our tax dollars though, I guess I don't see the difference. Keeping the funding as local as possible is the best, that way your tax dollars go to the schools in town, not to schools across the state. Agreed. Schools should reflect the values of the local community each serves. However according to the state constitution, that "community" is, more-or-less, the entire state. So, the state gets to dictate curriculum standards, minimum pay standards, and funding. |
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Originally Posted By AJE: That is still our tax dollars though, I guess I don't see the difference. It's different because state revenue comes from multiple sources (2024) Sales and Use Tax $13.95B 50% Personal Income Tax $10.0B 36% Commercial Activity Tax $1.0B 4% Other Taxes (e.g., public utility, excise, estate) $3.0B 10% Total taxes $27.9B or 96% of GRF Non-tax revenue $1.1B 4% Get rid of real estate tax and some of these will inevitably rise to make up the difference. Will schools improve with the state controlling the purse strings? Maybe, maybe not. As for me, I don't want idiots in progressive districts teaching progressive garbage to their students. The state constitution says the state has to provide "thorough and efficient" public K-12 education. That has been interpreted to require sufficient resources to avoid underfunded schools, as reinforced by court rulings like DeRolph. Relying heavily on any one source type is inevitably going to lead to disparities, which is my reasoning for relying largely on state funding for the bulk of funding. Wealthier districts can do more if the voters want that. I don't think this is very controversial. I'm just trying to thread the political/economic needle given where the state constitution/law are. We don't live in some utopia where money grows on trees and everything is free. 
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Senate overides Dewine: Columbus Dispatch Ohio will eliminate two types of property tax levies that schools and local governments use to raise money. The Ohio Senate voted 21-11 on Oct. 1 to reinstate a budget provision to get rid of replacement and emergency levies. Gov. Mike DeWine vetoed that proposal and other property tax measures in the two-year state budget and convened a working group to study the issue. The Ohio House voted in July to override this veto, so the proposal can now become law. More: DeWine property tax task force recommends fixes to help Ohio homeowners GOP lawmakers contend scrapping these levies will promote transparency and ensure homeowners understand how their taxes will be affected. Sen. Sandra O'Brien, R-Ashtabula, said school districts are putting emergency levies on the ballot when there's not a true emergency. . . . |
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Originally Posted By NightFox: When the same people who collect & spend property taxes also set the value of the property, there's a conflict of interest. Also the idea of never owning your land, rather renting from the State in perpetuity is pretty gross. Consumption taxes only. |
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| There is a rush by the State legislature to get property tax relief before the end of this year. That way there will be supposed change before this comes up on the ballot for a constitutional amendment in 2026. I have stated that the problem with property taxes in Ohio is that there are just too many fingers in the cash pie for reasonable change to happen. We have inside millage, 20 mil floor, emergency and replacement levies, school income taxes, property valuations, TAX EXEMPTIONS, state appointed Tax Commissioners and we have a mess. This is while Ohio boasts its low tax rate. My state reps and senators, county officials, in Butler County, have been behind proposed property tax changes. I support them in their efforts. Ohio has made clear that a simple majority will continue to pass a constitutional amendment. Reasonable property taxes based on values at the time approved by the electorate when passed with increases tied to cost of living or inflation will work. Making paper increases tied to “real estate values” is simple theft. Put a tax on home VALUE WHEN SOLD. If a school, fire, police, dispatch, library, parks, senior service, buses want more increase than cost of living or inflation they need approval from the electorate. Unfortunately, none of this will happen. I think this proposed amendment will pass and we will see panic. The Governors election in 2026 will be pivotal. |
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Originally Posted By utahdan: There is a rush by the State legislature to get property tax relief before the end of this year. That way there will be supposed change before this comes up on the ballot for a constitutional amendment in 2026. I have stated that the problem with property taxes in Ohio is that there are just too many fingers in the cash pie for reasonable change to happen. We have inside millage, 20 mil floor, emergency and replacement levies, school income taxes, property valuations, TAX EXEMPTIONS, state appointed Tax Commissioners and we have a mess. This is while Ohio boasts its low tax rate. My state reps and senators, county officials, in Butler County, have been behind proposed property tax changes. I support them in their efforts. Ohio has made clear that a simple majority will continue to pass a constitutional amendment. Reasonable property taxes based on values at the time approved by the electorate when passed with increases tied to cost of living or inflation will work. Making paper increases tied to “real estate values” is simple theft. Put a tax on home VALUE WHEN SOLD. If a school, fire, police, dispatch, library, parks, senior service, buses want more increase than cost of living or inflation they need approval from the electorate. Unfortunately, none of this will happen. I think this proposed amendment will pass and we will see panic. The Governors election in 2026 will be pivotal. Nope abolish only. My property tax went up 25% last year as well as everyone else. FAFO. Everyone is pissed and rightfully so. Even if I was a hermit, owned my property free and clear, walked/road a bike everywhere, traded for goods i may need or buy second hand, I would still owe $350/month tax on my property or be at risk of being thrown off of it. |
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My Ohio home is over double in property taxes than what I paid in Seattle. Local sales of 7.5 while there we paid 10.5 Ohio has income tax, coming soon to Washington as in this year despite being illegal under state constitution Washington felt like higher taxes, that point three everyday. The double on my house (same exact dollar value) is a huge number. Death and taxes. Even if we manage to get property rolled back, the government will get their cash, no way around that. And with the growing embedded liberals in government? lol |
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We would just be hit with other taxes to make up for it. We already pay a 1% school district tax. That would certainly go up. The worst result would be that more people would come here. Property tax is THE WORST for of taxation, but I want to know what they plan on replacing it with before I would be on board with abolishing it. |
9 lives - 9 pellets... Coincidence?
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Originally Posted By ske714: We would just be hit with other taxes to make up for it. We already pay a 1% school district tax. That would certainly go up. The worst result would be that more people would come here. Property tax is THE WORST for of taxation, but I want to know what they plan on replacing it with before I would be on board with abolishing it. If property tax is the worst, it can only be replaced with something better |
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Originally Posted By SGT-Fish: If property tax is the worst, it can only be replaced with something better Originally Posted By SGT-Fish: Originally Posted By ske714: We would just be hit with other taxes to make up for it. We already pay a 1% school district tax. That would certainly go up. The worst result would be that more people would come here. Property tax is THE WORST for of taxation, but I want to know what they plan on replacing it with before I would be on board with abolishing it. If property tax is the worst, it can only be replaced with something better lol! |
9 lives - 9 pellets... Coincidence?
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Originally Posted By utahdan: There is a rush by the State legislature to get property tax relief before the end of this year. That way there will be supposed change before this comes up on the ballot for a constitutional amendment in 2026. I have stated that the problem with property taxes in Ohio is that there are just too many fingers in the cash pie for reasonable change to happen. We have inside millage, 20 mil floor, emergency and replacement levies, school income taxes, property valuations, TAX EXEMPTIONS, state appointed Tax Commissioners and we have a mess. This is while Ohio boasts its low tax rate. My state reps and senators, county officials, in Butler County, have been behind proposed property tax changes. I support them in their efforts. Ohio has made clear that a simple majority will continue to pass a constitutional amendment. Reasonable property taxes based on values at the time approved by the electorate when passed with increases tied to cost of living or inflation will work. Making paper increases tied to “real estate values” is simple theft. Put a tax on home VALUE WHEN SOLD. If a school, fire, police, dispatch, library, parks, senior service, buses want more increase than cost of living or inflation they need approval from the electorate. Unfortunately, none of this will happen. I think this proposed amendment will pass and we will see panic. The Governors election in 2026 will be pivotal. They are trying to get in at the last minute so people don't vote this through, but none of the supposed relief will effect this year... when we will be voting on it. Great plan. 
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Originally Posted By ske714: We would just be hit with other taxes to make up for it. We already pay a 1% school district tax. That would certainly go up. The worst result would be that more people would come here. Property tax is THE WORST for of taxation, but I want to know what they plan on replacing it with before I would be on board with abolishing it. I was told, "you'll pay more in sales tax than you do right now on property taxes!", and I'm like, "That's the whole point". It's the only fair way to tax people and I'll finally own my home so no one can come and take it if I don't pay the king's tax on it. For me, it's not necessarily about the amount of money I'm paying in property taxes, it's the principle of the property tax itself. With the sales tax idea, if I spend more money, I'll pay more in taxes. If I spend less, I'll pay less in taxes. No more loopholes for anyone; no one is tax exempt, including businesses, churches, nonprofits, etc. We also need to eliminate waste. Having worked in local Government for a decade, I've seen some sickening waste of tax dollars... and one of the biggest expenses counties and cities have are the elected officials... In many cases they're the highest paid on the payroll and they have the least amount of responsibility to show up to work everyday like the rest of the employees... Hell, at the County level they only legally have to show up to work 1 day per quarter, yet make a 6-figure salary, full benefits, pension, AND those MF'ers can BUY years into OPERS - whereas us lowly employees have to slave away our most precious resource, time, to get those years in... Just my $.02 /rant |
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Originally Posted By Muad: I've argued with people over increasing sales tax to make up for the loss of property taxes for the counties, townships, etc. I was told, "you'll pay more in sales tax than you do right now on property taxes!", and I'm like, "That's the whole point". It's the only fair way to tax people and I'll finally own my home so no one can come and take it if I don't pay the king's tax on it. For me, it's not necessarily about the amount of money I'm paying in property taxes, it's the principle of the property tax itself. With the sales tax idea, if I spend more money, I'll pay more in taxes. If I spend less, I'll pay less in taxes. No more loopholes for anyone; no one is tax exempt, including businesses, churches, nonprofits, etc. We also need to eliminate waste. Having worked in local Government for a decade, I've seen some sickening waste of tax dollars... and one of the biggest expenses counties and cities have are the elected officials... In many cases they're the highest paid on the payroll and they have the least amount of responsibility to show up to work everyday like the rest of the employees... Hell, at the County level they only legally have to show up to work 1 day per quarter, yet make a 6-figure salary, full benefits, pension, AND those MF'ers can BUY years into OPERS - whereas us lowly employees have to slave away our most precious resource, time, to get those years in... Just my $.02 /rant Originally Posted By Muad: Originally Posted By ske714: We would just be hit with other taxes to make up for it. We already pay a 1% school district tax. That would certainly go up. The worst result would be that more people would come here. Property tax is THE WORST for of taxation, but I want to know what they plan on replacing it with before I would be on board with abolishing it. I was told, "you'll pay more in sales tax than you do right now on property taxes!", and I'm like, "That's the whole point". It's the only fair way to tax people and I'll finally own my home so no one can come and take it if I don't pay the king's tax on it. For me, it's not necessarily about the amount of money I'm paying in property taxes, it's the principle of the property tax itself. With the sales tax idea, if I spend more money, I'll pay more in taxes. If I spend less, I'll pay less in taxes. No more loopholes for anyone; no one is tax exempt, including businesses, churches, nonprofits, etc. We also need to eliminate waste. Having worked in local Government for a decade, I've seen some sickening waste of tax dollars... and one of the biggest expenses counties and cities have are the elected officials... In many cases they're the highest paid on the payroll and they have the least amount of responsibility to show up to work everyday like the rest of the employees... Hell, at the County level they only legally have to show up to work 1 day per quarter, yet make a 6-figure salary, full benefits, pension, AND those MF'ers can BUY years into OPERS - whereas us lowly employees have to slave away our most precious resource, time, to get those years in... Just my $.02 /rant I'm 100% in favor of eliminating property tax. I just think that any proposal should be specific about what comes next. If you just stop the flow of money, every county, township, and school district will be scrambling to impose new taxes to make up for it. I also think that states like Texas and Florida have people pouring in, largely because they have no state income tax. People don't understand that they just have other taxes that make up for it. If you just eliminate property taxes without adding a new sales tax in the same breath, a wave of people will come here. |
9 lives - 9 pellets... Coincidence?
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Originally Posted By Muad: For me, it's not necessarily about the amount of money I'm paying in property taxes, it's the principle of the property tax itself. A common failure in this line of thinking is not considering what "ownership" actually means. Either you have a society with a legal system that recognizes such a concept - which requires funding via taxation - or you operate in a state of anarchy where "owning" something only means that you currently are able to intimidate others sufficiently that they do not take or use it contrary to your will. Presumably, you are thinking about the former, where there is a legal system that you can utilize to both prove ownership as well as to punish offenders who attempt to take or abuse things without permission. But you need some form of tax to fund such a system. The most philosophically pure form of taxation is a combination of a flat, per-capita tax (as in a flat dollar amount, not a percentage of anything) and a tax that is proportional to real property. This is because the necessary services provided by government are either equally available (such as access to a legal system that can acknowledge ownership) or most proportional to real property (such as defense). They are absolutely not proportional to either income or spending, and especially not proportional to spending based on specific categories of products. This of course requires that government is limited to its essential functions, as otherwise the expense would be too great to properly distribute - or rather, too great for some people to bear when properly distributed, which would present various problems. It is not practical to do this, unfortunately, but you really need to step back and think about everything when you want to start talking about principles. ETA: I am actually all for offering people the opportunity to live completely tax-free. But that requires that you no longer participate in society. Choosing to check out from society means that you would not be legally recognized as existing, meaning those in society would not face any consequences for any action against you or anything you might claim to own. If you want to return to the state of nature, then so be it. |
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Originally Posted By Walkure: A common failure in this line of thinking is not considering what "ownership" actually means. Either you have a society with a legal system that recognizes such a concept - which requires funding via taxation - or you operate in a state of anarchy where "owning" something only means that you currently are able to intimidate others sufficiently that they do not take or use it contrary to your will. Presumably, you are thinking about the former, where there is a legal system that you can utilize to both prove ownership as well as to punish offenders who attempt to take or abuse things without permission. But you need some form of tax to fund such a system. The most philosophically pure form of taxation is a combination of a flat, per-capita tax (as in a flat dollar amount, not a percentage of anything) and a tax that is proportional to real property. This is because the necessary services provided by government are either equally available (such as access to a legal system that can acknowledge ownership) or most proportional to real property (such as defense). They are absolutely not proportional to either income or spending, and especially not proportional to spending based on specific categories of products. This of course requires that government is limited to its essential functions, as otherwise the expense would be too great to properly distribute - or rather, too great for some people to bear when properly distributed, which would present various problems. It is not practical to do this, unfortunately, but you really need to step back and think about everything when you want to start talking about principles. ETA: I am actually all for offering people the opportunity to live completely tax-free. But that requires that you no longer participate in society. Choosing to check out from society means that you would not be legally recognized as existing, meaning those in society would not face any consequences for any action against you or anything you might claim to own. If you want to return to the state of nature, then so be it. The legal system doesn't stop the .gov from taking your property so what good does "owning" it really do? |
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Originally Posted By Walkure: A common failure in this line of thinking is not considering what "ownership" actually means. Either you have a society with a legal system that recognizes such a concept - which requires funding via taxation - or you operate in a state of anarchy where "owning" something only means that you currently are able to intimidate others sufficiently that they do not take or use it contrary to your will. Presumably, you are thinking about the former, where there is a legal system that you can utilize to both prove ownership as well as to punish offenders who attempt to take or abuse things without permission. But you need some form of tax to fund such a system. The most philosophically pure form of taxation is a combination of a flat, per-capita tax (as in a flat dollar amount, not a percentage of anything) and a tax that is proportional to real property. This is because the necessary services provided by government are either equally available (such as access to a legal system that can acknowledge ownership) or most proportional to real property (such as defense). They are absolutely not proportional to either income or spending, and especially not proportional to spending based on specific categories of products. This of course requires that government is limited to its essential functions, as otherwise the expense would be too great to properly distribute - or rather, too great for some people to bear when properly distributed, which would present various problems. It is not practical to do this, unfortunately, but you really need to step back and think about everything when you want to start talking about principles. ETA: I am actually all for offering people the opportunity to live completely tax-free. But that requires that you no longer participate in society. Choosing to check out from society means that you would not be legally recognized as existing, meaning those in society would not face any consequences for any action against you or anything you might claim to own. If you want to return to the state of nature, then so be it. You took a long time to say "Taxes are the price we pay for civilized society". I think people are generally willing to contribute and fund such a society, but the taxes need to come from a different source. The idea that one can lose their paid-for home to the government for not being able to pay the ever-rising property tax is what we're talking about. Find another way to tax fairly or raise the consumption taxes. I'd be for a 100% tax on cigarettes, alcohol and non-medicinal cannabis products, for example. |
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Originally Posted By PKT1106: You took a long time to say "Taxes are the price we pay for civilized society". I think people are generally willing to contribute and fund such a society, but the taxes need to come from a different source. The idea that one can lose their paid-for home to the government for not being able to pay the ever-rising property tax is what we're talking about. Find another way to tax fairly or raise the consumption taxes. I'd be for a 100% tax on cigarettes, alcohol and non-medicinal cannabis products, for example. People already drive to MI to buy pot for much cheaper than OH and will do similar for alcohol and cigarettes. I totally agree about the property tax, I have paid more in property tax than I paid for my house to begin with. |
Ohio passes 5 property tax bills Failed To Load Title more info in video Looks like they're trying to keep on screwing us again and make us jump threw a bunch hoops, and if we don't nothing changes. |
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Originally Posted By razerface: I got my bill yesterday. It went up over $1000. something has to be done. But it could have been a $1200 increase, so you are technically saving $200. 
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Originally Posted By DumpTruck33: Ohio passes 5 property tax bills  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlxivRFs6T4more info in video Looks like they're trying to keep on screwing us again and make us jump threw a bunch hoops, and if we don't nothing changes. Making it more complicated is exactly the opposite of what we want in our tax code |
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Originally Posted By SGT-Fish: Making it more complicated is exactly the opposite of what we want in our tax code Originally Posted By SGT-Fish: Originally Posted By DumpTruck33: Ohio passes 5 property tax bills https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlxivRFs6T4more info in video Looks like they're trying to keep on screwing us again and make us jump threw a bunch hoops, and if we don't nothing changes. Making it more complicated is exactly the opposite of what we want in our tax code I'm sure some of this was to keep the vote for the elimination from passing, but none of this is going to help the increases for this year. |
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I have been trying to educate myself on these new laws and can’t make heads or tails. I am thinking they just made everything more complicated, go figure. They are going to piss more people off and get a constitutional amendment banning property tax. |
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DeWine said a month ago the large property tax increases were a kick in the gut to homeowners. And now he's saying if property tax is abolished then a sales tax of 20% would be needed to make up for it. Like that wouldn't be a kick in the gut to anyone that buys anything taxable. Instead of that, how about, oh I don't know, decreasing state spending? Such a dope. |
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Originally Posted By spmx7777: DeWine said a month ago the large property tax increases were a kick in the gut to homeowners. And now he's saying if property tax is abolished then a sales tax of 20% would be needed to make up for it. Like that wouldn't be a kick in the gut to anyone that buys anything taxable. Instead of that, how about, oh I don't know, decreasing state spending? Such a dope. Cutting state spending won't do anything, take a look at where the property taxes go. My property taxes: Local school district = 61% (not funding anything at the state level) Township EMS/Fire district = 11% (not funding anything at the state level) County general fund = 7% (this includes the Sheriff's office, and not funding anything at the state level) Vocational school = 5% (may as well lump this in with the 61% going to the school district, but they get their own money, and also is not funding anything at the state level) Fire dept = 4% (not funding anything at the state level) Township roads and bridges= 3% (not funding anything at the state level) The rest are a mix of levies and boards and local issues, all of which are not funding anything at the state level. The counties will not just do away with all of that stuff. If this passes, we're going to be paying for most of it, we're just not sure how yet. |
“Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a 10mm at your side, kid.”
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Thanks, good reply. Voters will have to decide what they’re willing to put up with. We’re not ATMs for governments to withdraw unlimited amounts of money from. My city got a school levy passed by making it apply to only taxable income, not real estate. The previous attempt at a real estate levy got shot down because retirees didn’t support it. An income tax levy didn’t affect them as much so they didn’t oppose it. I’m sure we’ll see more of that. |
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I've got two school districts looking to get tax increases (one I live in, one I work in). One has been trying to pass one for years and are looking at what they can do without a vote. I feel like I'm taking it from two directions As bad as all of this is, I'm about ready to say bring it on and just vote for the axe just to see how it ends up.
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“Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a 10mm at your side, kid.”
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Originally Posted By AJE: As bad as all of this is, I'm about ready to say bring it on and just vote for the axe just to see how it ends up. This is how most of my coworkers are thinking. I can’t recall any other state with a 20% sales tax. Explain how that will be received governor. |
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Originally Posted By spmx7777: Thanks, good reply. Voters will have to decide what they’re willing to put up with. We’re not ATMs for governments to withdraw unlimited amounts of money from. My city got a school levy passed by making it apply to only taxable income, not real estate. The previous attempt at a real estate levy got shot down because retirees didn’t support it. An income tax levy didn’t affect them as much so they didn’t oppose it. I’m sure we’ll see more of that. My school got both, and the excuse for needing it is always lame. Population down, less income, need more levies. Population up, more students, need more levies. Inflation, need more income, more levies. Need new school, more levies. Can't afford to maintain the big new school, more levies. |
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Originally Posted By AR_Dale: My school got both, and the excuse for needing it is always lame. Population down, less income, need more levies. Population up, more students, need more levies. Inflation, need more income, more levies. Need new school, more levies. Can't afford to maintain the big new school, more levies. Originally Posted By AR_Dale: Originally Posted By spmx7777: Thanks, good reply. Voters will have to decide what they’re willing to put up with. We’re not ATMs for governments to withdraw unlimited amounts of money from. My city got a school levy passed by making it apply to only taxable income, not real estate. The previous attempt at a real estate levy got shot down because retirees didn’t support it. An income tax levy didn’t affect them as much so they didn’t oppose it. I’m sure we’ll see more of that. My school got both, and the excuse for needing it is always lame. Population down, less income, need more levies. Population up, more students, need more levies. Inflation, need more income, more levies. Need new school, more levies. Can't afford to maintain the big new school, more levies. Don't forget every sport, every team, every club, the musical, the band, et al, always asking for more on top of that. |
“Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a 10mm at your side, kid.”
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It's going to come down to weighing local services (read: senior services) paid for by property taxes vs seniors potentially losing homes that are paid for because taxes keep going up and their savings/pension/ss can't keep pace. Seniors will be pitted against their own values. Keeping the area good for the grandkids vs keep their homes. The 20% number seems like a bad scare tactic. Living right on the WV line, its nothing for us to go over the river and shop. Food won't be affected, but discretionary spending will take a hit. Possibly tourism for Ohio State parks and Hocking Hills, maybe the islands on Lake Erie. 20% more sales tax and raising income tax to 11% seems like a bad bluff. Problem is any increase to sales and income tax will be attacked, but it needs to be done, just not that high, and not on a state level. A county sales tax and possibly income tax will need to be implemented, staring at 1% for both. This will be in tandem with state income taxes and the municipalities that have a RITA tax. Hopefully, there will be legislation to cap the total of these taxes. It's a complicated issue, but it is past time its addressed. Its going to hurt because we've ignored it for so long. |
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Originally Posted By PKT1106: A county sales tax and possibly income tax will need to be implemented, staring at 1% for both. This will be in tandem with state income taxes and the municipalities that have a RITA tax. Hopefully, there will be legislation to cap the total of these taxes. Each county already has its own sales tax |
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Originally Posted By PKT1106: You took a long time to say "Taxes are the price we pay for civilized society". I think people are generally willing to contribute and fund such a society, but the taxes need to come from a different source. The idea that one can lose their paid-for home to the government for not being able to pay the ever-rising property tax is what we're talking about. Find another way to tax fairly or raise the consumption taxes. I'd be for a 100% tax on cigarettes, alcohol and non-medicinal cannabis products, for example. Originally Posted By PKT1106: Originally Posted By Walkure: A common failure in this line of thinking is not considering what "ownership" actually means. Either you have a society with a legal system that recognizes such a concept - which requires funding via taxation - or you operate in a state of anarchy where "owning" something only means that you currently are able to intimidate others sufficiently that they do not take or use it contrary to your will. Presumably, you are thinking about the former, where there is a legal system that you can utilize to both prove ownership as well as to punish offenders who attempt to take or abuse things without permission. But you need some form of tax to fund such a system. The most philosophically pure form of taxation is a combination of a flat, per-capita tax (as in a flat dollar amount, not a percentage of anything) and a tax that is proportional to real property. This is because the necessary services provided by government are either equally available (such as access to a legal system that can acknowledge ownership) or most proportional to real property (such as defense). They are absolutely not proportional to either income or spending, and especially not proportional to spending based on specific categories of products. This of course requires that government is limited to its essential functions, as otherwise the expense would be too great to properly distribute - or rather, too great for some people to bear when properly distributed, which would present various problems. It is not practical to do this, unfortunately, but you really need to step back and think about everything when you want to start talking about principles. ETA: I am actually all for offering people the opportunity to live completely tax-free. But that requires that you no longer participate in society. Choosing to check out from society means that you would not be legally recognized as existing, meaning those in society would not face any consequences for any action against you or anything you might claim to own. If you want to return to the state of nature, then so be it. You took a long time to say "Taxes are the price we pay for civilized society". I think people are generally willing to contribute and fund such a society, but the taxes need to come from a different source. The idea that one can lose their paid-for home to the government for not being able to pay the ever-rising property tax is what we're talking about. Find another way to tax fairly or raise the consumption taxes. I'd be for a 100% tax on cigarettes, alcohol and non-medicinal cannabis products, for example. My property taxes are up 58% since I bought the house 8 years ago. Haven't made any improvements, it's still the same house. Sure, it has nearly doubled in value, but that does nothing to help make the increased payments. Thankfully, I can easily afford this. Some people cannot. There should have been an annual cap on increases, 2% or something. Or only change the appraisal value when the property changes hands. They've hosed everyone so hard on property taxes, the movement to do away with it isn't going to stop. |
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For those who might not know Ohio has a senior property tax exemption. Google your county for more info. For my county, Wayne, it exempts up to $28,000 of your homes value for those who's adjusted gross income is less than $40,000, not a lot but better than nothing. Ultimately I want property tax eliminated and replaced with a consumption tax. And no Ramaswampy I don't want my taxes back to pre pandemic rates, I want them eliminated. |
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Originally Posted By DumpTruck33: For those who might not know Ohio has a senior property tax exemption. Google your county for more info. For my county, Wayne, it exempts up to $28,000 of your homes value for those who's adjusted gross income is less than $40,000, not a lot but better than nothing. Ultimately I want property tax eliminated and replaced with a consumption tax. And no Ramaswampy I don't want my taxes back to pre pandemic rates, I want them eliminated. If you're in Delaware County, a tax deferral program is available as well. If eligible, you can defer tax increases due to millage increases. The deferred amount becomes a lien on your home, payable upon sale, transfer, or death. I don't know of any other counties doing anything similar now, Cuyahoga did something in the past like this. This at least takes some of the sting away while you're still in your home. |
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Originally Posted By spmx7777: If you're in Delaware County, a tax deferral program is available as well. If eligible, you can defer tax increases due to millage increases. The deferred amount becomes a lien on your home, payable upon sale, transfer, or death. I don't know of any other counties doing anything similar now, Cuyahoga did something in the past like this. This at least takes some of the sting away while you're still in your home. Originally Posted By spmx7777: Originally Posted By DumpTruck33: For those who might not know Ohio has a senior property tax exemption. Google your county for more info. For my county, Wayne, it exempts up to $28,000 of your homes value for those who's adjusted gross income is less than $40,000, not a lot but better than nothing. Ultimately I want property tax eliminated and replaced with a consumption tax. And no Ramaswampy I don't want my taxes back to pre pandemic rates, I want them eliminated. If you're in Delaware County, a tax deferral program is available as well. If eligible, you can defer tax increases due to millage increases. The deferred amount becomes a lien on your home, payable upon sale, transfer, or death. I don't know of any other counties doing anything similar now, Cuyahoga did something in the past like this. This at least takes some of the sting away while you're still in your home. Wow, great idea. What could possibly go wrong?
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9 lives - 9 pellets... Coincidence?
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Originally Posted By ske714: Wow, great idea. What could possibly go wrong? Originally Posted By ske714: Originally Posted By spmx7777: Originally Posted By DumpTruck33: For those who might not know Ohio has a senior property tax exemption. Google your county for more info. For my county, Wayne, it exempts up to $28,000 of your homes value for those who's adjusted gross income is less than $40,000, not a lot but better than nothing. Ultimately I want property tax eliminated and replaced with a consumption tax. And no Ramaswampy I don't want my taxes back to pre pandemic rates, I want them eliminated. If you're in Delaware County, a tax deferral program is available as well. If eligible, you can defer tax increases due to millage increases. The deferred amount becomes a lien on your home, payable upon sale, transfer, or death. I don't know of any other counties doing anything similar now, Cuyahoga did something in the past like this. This at least takes some of the sting away while you're still in your home. Wow, great idea. What could possibly go wrong? Well, go on. |
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Originally Posted By spmx7777: Well, go on. Originally Posted By spmx7777: Originally Posted By ske714: Originally Posted By spmx7777: Originally Posted By DumpTruck33: For those who might not know Ohio has a senior property tax exemption. Google your county for more info. For my county, Wayne, it exempts up to $28,000 of your homes value for those who's adjusted gross income is less than $40,000, not a lot but better than nothing. Ultimately I want property tax eliminated and replaced with a consumption tax. And no Ramaswampy I don't want my taxes back to pre pandemic rates, I want them eliminated. If you're in Delaware County, a tax deferral program is available as well. If eligible, you can defer tax increases due to millage increases. The deferred amount becomes a lien on your home, payable upon sale, transfer, or death. I don't know of any other counties doing anything similar now, Cuyahoga did something in the past like this. This at least takes some of the sting away while you're still in your home. Wow, great idea. What could possibly go wrong? Well, go on. They know that they plan to increase property taxes and that many can't afford the increase, so they provide a path for them to pay with their actual property instead. How is that a good thing? eta: They can already put a lien on your property if you don't pay your taxes. It sounds like they just made it so they can't take any action against people that don't pay. |
9 lives - 9 pellets... Coincidence?
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Originally Posted By ske714: They know that they plan to increase property taxes and that many can't afford the increase, so they provide a path for them to pay with their actual property instead. How is that a good thing? eta: They can already put a lien on your property if you don't pay your taxes. It sounds like they just made it so they can't take any action against people that don't pay. Originally Posted By ske714: Originally Posted By spmx7777: Originally Posted By ske714: Originally Posted By spmx7777: Originally Posted By DumpTruck33: For those who might not know Ohio has a senior property tax exemption. Google your county for more info. For my county, Wayne, it exempts up to $28,000 of your homes value for those who's adjusted gross income is less than $40,000, not a lot but better than nothing. Ultimately I want property tax eliminated and replaced with a consumption tax. And no Ramaswampy I don't want my taxes back to pre pandemic rates, I want them eliminated. If you're in Delaware County, a tax deferral program is available as well. If eligible, you can defer tax increases due to millage increases. The deferred amount becomes a lien on your home, payable upon sale, transfer, or death. I don't know of any other counties doing anything similar now, Cuyahoga did something in the past like this. This at least takes some of the sting away while you're still in your home. Wow, great idea. What could possibly go wrong? Well, go on. They know that they plan to increase property taxes and that many can't afford the increase, so they provide a path for them to pay with their actual property instead. How is that a good thing? eta: They can already put a lien on your property if you don't pay your taxes. It sounds like they just made it so they can't take any action against people that don't pay. Correct. It's an option that may be preferable to being forced out of your home because you can't afford the increase in taxes. If you don't like it then don't do it. |
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Originally Posted By spmx7777: Correct. It's an option that may be preferable to being forced out of your home because you can't afford the increase in taxes. If you don't like it then don't do it. Originally Posted By spmx7777: Originally Posted By ske714: Originally Posted By spmx7777: Originally Posted By ske714: Originally Posted By spmx7777: Originally Posted By DumpTruck33: For those who might not know Ohio has a senior property tax exemption. Google your county for more info. For my county, Wayne, it exempts up to $28,000 of your homes value for those who's adjusted gross income is less than $40,000, not a lot but better than nothing. Ultimately I want property tax eliminated and replaced with a consumption tax. And no Ramaswampy I don't want my taxes back to pre pandemic rates, I want them eliminated. If you're in Delaware County, a tax deferral program is available as well. If eligible, you can defer tax increases due to millage increases. The deferred amount becomes a lien on your home, payable upon sale, transfer, or death. I don't know of any other counties doing anything similar now, Cuyahoga did something in the past like this. This at least takes some of the sting away while you're still in your home. Wow, great idea. What could possibly go wrong? Well, go on. They know that they plan to increase property taxes and that many can't afford the increase, so they provide a path for them to pay with their actual property instead. How is that a good thing? eta: They can already put a lien on your property if you don't pay your taxes. It sounds like they just made it so they can't take any action against people that don't pay. Correct. It's an option that may be preferable to being forced out of your home because you can't afford the increase in taxes. If you don't like it then don't do it. Okay, but two wrongs don't make it right. |
9 lives - 9 pellets... Coincidence?
| I knew a good guy west coast that inherited his grandparents house. Was built in the country way back, now it's the city. He made good money and still couldn't afford the property taxes. Legalized theft is what it is. No other way to see it. The house was long paid for and handed down. Total bullshit |
I'm on break.
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Originally Posted By CavVet: I knew a good guy west coast that inherited his grandparents house. Was built in the country way back, now it's the city. He made good money and still couldn't afford the property taxes. Legalized theft is what it is. No other way to see it. The house was long paid for and handed down. Total bullshit Believe me, I agree, it's total bullshit. FWIW, an uncle of mine bought a home in Pasadena, CA after WWII. He married and raised five children in that house, stayed there until he died a few years ago at age 100. I'm not sure how the kids pulled it off, but one of the grandchildren live in the house now and (I think) it's at the same tax rate my uncle was paying. Maybe it's in a trust. |
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Originally Posted By wienerman1961: Welcome to $2000 car registrations. That was my point at the beginning if this thread - they're going to get their money one way or another. Before making such a change, it would be good to know what it will be replaced with. |
9 lives - 9 pellets... Coincidence?