Posted: 5/12/2011 11:21:53 AM EDT
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Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.
It's my understanding that a business must have a 8 1/2" by 11" sign in color posted on the outer most entrance door, not just inside the door, not posted at the counter well within the business saying that No CCW is permitted within that business, otherwise all they can do is ask you to leave and not be charged with a felony charge. Can anyone clarify on this? |
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Not correct.
There is no criteria in the law for the sign beyond "posted in a conspicuous location'. It can be in crayon on the back of a napkin taped to an employee's forehead if they choose. Also the charge if you 'knowingly violate' the posted sign, unless the location is one of the specifically mentioned locations such as jail, government building, court house etc is criminal trespass which is I think a M3. Also, if the sign is posted in a parking lot, there is no criminal charge, but the property owner can still sue you in civil court for 'knowingly violating' the posted parking lot |
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Quoted:
Not correct. There is no criteria in the law for the sign beyond "posted in a conspicuous location'. It can be in crayon on the back of a napkin taped to an employee's forehead if they choose. Also the charge if you 'knowingly violate' the posted sign, unless the location is one of the specifically mentioned locations such as jail, government building, court house etc is criminal trespass which is I think a M3. Also, if the sign is posted in a parking lot, there is no criminal charge, but the property owner can still sue you in civil court for 'knowingly violating' the posted parking lot This^. The size isn't relative either. UDF, Skyline Chile, ... signs are no bigger than the palm of my hand. And they aren't on the door. More like in one of the panes of glass, along with all sorts of advertising. It almost seems like they don't really care, but reserve the right to get nasty. JMHO |
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Not correct. There is no criteria in the law for the sign beyond "posted in a conspicuous location'. It can be in crayon on the back of a napkin taped to an employee's forehead if they choose. Also the charge if you 'knowingly violate' the posted sign, unless the location is one of the specifically mentioned locations such as jail, government building, court house etc is criminal trespass which is I think a M3. Also, if the sign is posted in a parking lot, there is no criminal charge, but the property owner can still sue you in civil court for 'knowingly violating' the posted parking lot Slightly wrong... The sign HAS to be on all entrances, can't be on "an employees forehead" Unless that employee is stationed at every entrance. |
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Not correct. There is no criteria in the law for the sign beyond "posted in a conspicuous location'. It can be in crayon on the back of a napkin taped to an employee's forehead if they choose. Also the charge if you 'knowingly violate' the posted sign, unless the location is one of the specifically mentioned locations such as jail, government building, court house etc is criminal trespass which is I think a M3. Also, if the sign is posted in a parking lot, there is no criminal charge, but the property owner can still sue you in civil court for 'knowingly violating' the posted parking lot Slightly wrong... The sign HAS to be on all entrances, can't be on "an employees forehead" Unless that employee is stationed at every entrance. No he was/is correct. It doest matter where its posted. |
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Not correct. There is no criteria in the law for the sign beyond "posted in a conspicuous location'. It can be in crayon on the back of a napkin taped to an employee's forehead if they choose. Also the charge if you 'knowingly violate' the posted sign, unless the location is one of the specifically mentioned locations such as jail, government building, court house etc is criminal trespass which is I think a M3. Also, if the sign is posted in a parking lot, there is no criminal charge, but the property owner can still sue you in civil court for 'knowingly violating' the posted parking lot Slightly wrong... The sign HAS to be on all entrances, can't be on "an employees forehead" Unless that employee is stationed at every entrance. Racsan, you might share that with Skyline and a few that have more than one entrance. And I really doubt that most have the signs on 'delivery' entrances. But you are technically right. The question becomes, how much do you want to spend on a lawyer? Prosecutors get paid by you and me. |
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Yes it does matter where it's posted. If you post it inside the location facing where you can't see it until you're leaving, it's not very conspicuous is it?
Conspicuous means 1. Standing out so as to be clearly visible. 2. Attracting notice or attention. But neither here nor there... If I go somewhere and it doesn't have a sign on every outer entrance door, I'm not looking anywhere else for one. |
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Yes it does matter where it's posted. If you post it inside the location facing where you can't see it until you're leaving, it's not very conspicuous is it? Conspicuous means 1. Standing out so as to be clearly visible. 2. Attracting notice or attention. But neither here nor there... If I go somewhere and it doesn't have a sign on every outer entrance door, I'm not looking anywhere else for one. Bingo OEW, I couldn't agree more. We just need to use full disclosure when giving advice. Point being, we make our own decisions. 'Let buyer beware'. |
| I'll agree with the where its posted group. My former partners office had it posted in there lunch room. And they tried telling walk in's that they where not allowed to carry because the office was posted. LEO told him on the door/doors entering his business. Because the building owner refused post the hole building and left it up to each tenet. |
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I'll agree with the where its posted group. My former partners office had it posted in there lunch room. And they tried telling walk in's that they where not allowed to carry because the office was posted. LEO told him on the door/doors entering his business. Because the building owner refused post the hole building and left it up to each tenet. The word "knowingly" is important here. If you know its posted then your not allowed to carry it doesn't matter where its posted. If a new vendor comes to your building and he is carrying but its not posted, then he is not breaking the law. If he finds out he cannot carry in there next time he comes he shouldn't carry because now he knows......... How do you prove knowingly in court of law - I guess thats up to lawyers. |
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So there you go Tonto. It really doesn't get much clearer. May the gods be with you. And may you know a good lawyer.  damn, it's the old clear as mud. But yeah, I know a couple good lawyers. Thanks for all the info people, I guess it also all falls down to the whole KEEP IT CONCEALED & keep your mouth shut. I just hate it when a business is so chicken shit to not post it on their main entrance but then posts it when you are well inside the building. I asked one place I use to visit why it's inside and not posted outside, his reply was "I didn't want to get robbed by you gun nuts knowing I don't allow guns in my place." Thanks again |
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damn, it's the old clear as mud. But yeah, I know a couple good lawyers. Thanks for all the info people, I guess it also all falls down to the whole KEEP IT CONCEALED & keep your mouth shut. I just hate it when a business is so chicken shit to not post it on their main entrance but then posts it when you are well inside the building. I asked one place I use to visit why it's inside and not posted outside, his reply was "I didn't want to get robbed by you gun nuts knowing I don't allow guns in my place." Thanks again 
Who? Where? Seriously. |
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damn, it's the old clear as mud. But yeah, I know a couple good lawyers. Thanks for all the info people, I guess it also all falls down to the whole KEEP IT CONCEALED & keep your mouth shut. I just hate it when a business is so chicken shit to not post it on their main entrance but then posts it when you are well inside the building. I asked one place I use to visit why it's inside and not posted outside, his reply was "I didn't want to get robbed by you gun nuts knowing I don't allow guns in my place." Thanks again
Who? Where? Seriously. was that a smug response or is he really that stoopid? 
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Yes it does matter where it's posted. If you post it inside the location facing where you can't see it until you're leaving, it's not very conspicuous is it? Conspicuous means 1. Standing out so as to be clearly visible. 2. Attracting notice or attention. But neither here nor there... If I go somewhere and it doesn't have a sign on every outer entrance door, I'm not looking anywhere else for one. +1 This is what I go by. If I don't see the sign as I walk up to the door then I'm going in. If I see the sign then I'm not going back. I noticed some UDF Stores have the sign buried within all the other signs and credit card signs on the glass by the door and some UDF Stores don't have them. I go to UDF as if they don't have a sign. |
| I wonder if when the governor signs this into law, if the anti's will be going around telling bars they need to put up a no guns sign... I have heard that this happened when concealed carry finally was allowed here. Heck, my local surplus store had one up and one of the employees had to explain to the owner in a nice way that he was an idiot, and he was also likely turning away business... Especially considering they sell long arms, ammo etc. |
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I wonder if when the governor signs this into law, if the anti's will be going around telling bars they need to put up a no guns sign... I have heard that this happened when concealed carry finally was allowed here. Heck, my local surplus store had one up and one of the employees had to explain to the owner in a nice way that he was an idiot, and he was also likely turning away business... Especially considering they sell long arms, ammo etc. I'll do what I did when the law 1st went into effect. I bought a bunch of the business cards that said "No Guns/No $$$" I politely informed numerous businesses as long as they posted their no Guns signs, I would take my business elsewhere. Some changed and dropped the signs and some didn't. As long as the signs were present I took my business elsewhere. In this economy you wouldn't think they would survive long if we all stuck together and boycotted businesses that continue to create Victim Zones. |
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"if you 'knowingly violate' the posted sign" repeat after me..... "What sign?" RIGHT ON!!! Arm yourself. Do not let a corporation dictate your 2A! Everyone talks about places being victim zones; I think most CREATE THEIR OWN victim zones.... That is all. Dismissed. |
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I think most of the businesses who post it
where you would have to look for it. Do not want to stop someone who is carrying to come in and spend thier money. But if for some reason someone WITCHES about it. Then they can say see I have a sign. Those DARN gun people just do not listen! They are tring to make money from both sides! Remember, always follow the money! PITA45 
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