[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Who else is open Carrying? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 10/3/2003 6:22:53 PM EDT
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I've walked a total of about 9 miles around town now, and been to the grocery store and a few other stores around town a couple times. No body seems to be too care or be surprised about it. I said hi to the local judge the first day I was carrying and he just nodded and said hi back. I'll probably venture out to the mall or a shopping center this weekend and see how that goes. Hey mmsig or another LEO have any depts told their officers about any changes regarding how to handle people open carrying. I was wondering if departments were generally being informed or not. |
| About the only thing I could think of is that the mall security or private property owners could ask you to leave, and then sign a complaint for trespass if you refused to leave or put up the gun. Other than that, I can't think that I would arrest for it. The supreme court seems to have decided that it is a right and I would think that would supercede disorderly conduct or inducing panic laws. Weapons could however still be restricted inside certain buildings or facilities by the management of those facilities. |
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Actually i'd have to disagree with you on the idea that anyone can restrict my entering their place of business. Once a business is open to the public they are not allowed to restrict who enters their place of business. There is no ohio statue that allows places to post no carry signs like other states have. Once open to the public then you can only ask them to leave if they are breaking the law or causing some nuisance. Since open carry is legal then I'm not breaking any law. Just walking around and acting like every other shopper or patron except that i'm carrying a gun, is no reason for my expulsion from a premesis. Once you open a business to the public your freedom to restrict access to the place of business is lost. The only places that I know of in ohio that are restricted are bars, schools, and cars. |
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Yes the recent supreme court decision where they again crapped all over the ohio constitution about concealed carry, they speciffically said that if you wish to carry for defense you can open carry. I went back and re-read all of title 2923 of the ORC. The only places in ohio that are restriceted are schools, and courthouses. To carry in a bar you need to meet the same afirmitave defenses that concealed carry has. Getting caught carrying in a bar is a felony though (fifth degree0 while just concealed carry is noramlly a misdermeanor. Look at onlinedocs.andersonpublishing.com/oh/lpExt.dll?f=templates&fn=main-h.htm&cp=PORC It has the entire ORC online. I have the BATFE 2003 state law publications also but that doesn't have everything. |
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Guncrazy, I'm glad to hear that your open carry adventure has been uneventful. I wish I had the option of showing a bit more in the way of balls right now; at the moment I've had to satisfy myself with a couple of scathing editorials in the local paper. I think getting run in on a charge of "inducing panic" wouldn't do much for my pending security clearance... My local paper said that the Ohio Supreme Court ban on CCW was a "reasonable middle ground" that "preserved the right to bear arms". I urged them to walk around carrying openly and see how long it took them to have a run-in with LEOs. |
From the Ohio Revised Code: 2911.21 Criminal Trespass (4) Being on the land or premises of another, negligently fail or refuse to leave upon being notified to do so by the owner or occupant, or the agent or servant of either. We used this section quite often when I worked loss prevention to get rid of skateboarders (no local ordinance), unruly teens inside the store (noisy, obnoxious, but not illegal), and the weird-o guy that would come in and talk to himself while looking at all the cosmetics. Opening your business to the public does not take away your right to control who remains on the property. Dave |
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How about the decision itself: www.sconet.state.oh.us/ More specifically: www.sconet.state.oh.us/rod/documents/0/2003/2003-ohio-4779.doc There's also OFCC www.sconet.state.oh.us/ Scott |
| GC223, I think the rank and file are pretty much at the mercy of the PC chiefs. As usual the guys on the street are caught in the middle. We all know it isn't illegal to open carry, but I'm sure the soccer moms will be bending the chief's ear.I was just talking about this with the guys today at the gas pumps. There should be some protocol for these incidents, but as usual there isn't, and won't be until somebody steps in it with both feet... |
| I've been open-carrying since the Norwood defense walk. No one seems to notice or care (which is fine by me). Been in Meijer, Kroger (twice) and a Chineese takeout place. I'm going to keep it up--heck, if no one minds, this is as good as ccw as far as I'm concerned (except you don't get the "fear of the unknown" crime deterrent effect). |
| Well I've also continued to do it. I've been to alot of stores. Lowes, Home Depot, Kohls, Walmart, Ginat Eagle, IGA, and even out to the movies. I carry when out with family and friends, basically I pretty much always have a gun on me. All open carry is with my G21 in the fobus roto on my right hip. I carry my cz-75 in a righ side thigh holster if I take the dog for a walk in the cold so the gun is very visible. I also always try to walk on the left side of the street so all passing motorists can easily see it. Other than the previous encounter with my local PD I've not even been looked at sideways by any LEOs. I also got a letter about open carry publised in the local paper just to help let people know about the legalities of open carry. |
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I've been openly carrying since the Norwood walk as well. I haven't been into any stores but I have been carrying around the neighborhood while walking the dogs. In my truck, I drop the mag, clear the chamber, put the mag in my console and my SIG behind the seat. When I arrive, I reload and re-holster. I really don't want to take any chances with the police should I get pulled over. |
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I simply remove the mag and empty the cahmber, and lock back the slide. I then place the gun either in the holster or not in the passenger or back seat in plain view. The mag either goes between my legs or in a shirt pocket. IT could be quickly accessed and re-loaded if needed. Title 2923.16 of the ORC ...... (C) No person shall knowingly transport or have a firearm in a motor vehicle, unless it is unloaded and is carried in one of the following ways: (1) In a closed package, box, or case; (2) In a compartment that can be reached only by leaving the vehicle; (3) In plain sight and secured in a rack or holder made for the purpose; (4) In plain sight with the action open or the weapon stripped, or, if the firearm is of a type on which the action will not stay open or which cannot easily be stripped, in plain sight. ..... So I either obey part 3 or 4 or both. By puting the gun behind the seat of the truck you are actually violating the law. It might keep you from easily getting harrased but if they check then you could be arrested. Violation of division (C) of this section is a misdemeanor of the fourth degree I refer to the ORC online every time I have a question. It isn't a bad idea to print out the relevant sections in their entirety so they can even be shown to an officer if he isn't sure about the law. Many officers don't know the laws about firearms in this state and simply work from what they are told, often improperly by other officers. Some care and take the time to learn as much as they can but others dont. Everyone should open carry alot more if we want things to change. The anti-gunners are pushing the idea that we don't need concealed carry because we have open carry. THey know that few of us are actuallly willing to do it so they are in essence winning if no one shows them what we will do. Keep it legal and keep it visible and keep your head up. Carry openly proudly and don't be afraid. It's our right and rights we don't fight for, and use are lost to obscurity. Open carry has always been legal but since no one did it, the police started harrasing people for doing it. We can't let that happen EVER again. It's OUR JOB, and NO ONE will do it for us. |
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You might be right but I 'm pretty sure that most standards consider that in a pickup a box in the bed is equal to a trunk. My car is a hatchback so technicaly there is NO completely seperate compartment. Also many cars can have the backseat fold down from the inside. Which means I could access the trunk area without getting out. So just be safe and be careful. Plain view just seems to be my best alternative. |
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I'm wondering if any of you have open carried in any of Ohio's major metropolitan areas, such as the Three Big C's (Cleveland, Columbus, or Cinci.) I've been interested to find out how the Big City Police would handle open carry. I'm not going to be the experiment though, as I don't need an arrest record, even if it is dismissed, that's a box I don't want to have to check on future LE applications. I've spoken w/ one Columbus Police officer I work w/, who has stated they've stopped people to question their motives in open carrying, but ultimately, have no abbility to arrest for any reason. The problem arises, when you encounter the LEO who's not up on his ORC or recent rulings, and you either get cuffed or drawn down on. I know for a fact I couln't open carry around here w/ out causing incident. Damn my career aspirations, or I would do it just to set an example and raise awareness. |
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According to a Cincinnati Police Lieutenant who participated in the Norwood walk, Mike Allen, Hamilton County prosecutor, has sent out a memorandum to all county law enforcement officials that he WILL NOT prosecute people who are carrying openly should they be arrested for any of the "catch-all" offenses. The intent was clear: Don't waste your time or mine by bringing these citizens in. BTW - Norwood is in the heart of Cincinnati and (though we have our own police force) I have not been stopped or hassled once. Others we spoke with on the Norwood walk also participated in the Northside walk which is actually inside the Cincinnati limits and they have been open carrying around town without incident. |
That's good to hear. I'm really dying to try it here, but I know that the moment I walk into a store/mall in the heart of Columbus, I'm going to meet some local law up close. I don't think I'll have a problem walking through my neighborhood, or out mountain biking though. |
| I've been open carrying since the Norwood walk. Today I went into Wal Mart, which made me a little nervous because my cousin had the cops called on him there for RETURNING a defective shotgun IN THE BOX. I guess the manager freaked out when he carried the gun in (again, in the box). Anyway I was in the store for 10-15 minutes and once again no one seemed to notice or care. |
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I went shopping in niles and boardman today. 2 best buys (one niles one boardman checking different selections) circuit city, Walmart again this time the boardman store, I've also been to the warren store, and Dicks sporting goods twice today. My dad and I wanted to get some of the remington shotgun ammo they had on sale but there was a 5 box per customer thing so we went back after a while and did it again. We also went to the sprint store because he want to change calling plans. Got a couple of strange looks like usual. I just give a little smile and nod and they usually move on without a second glance. On saturday I open carried my AR on the normal three mile walk with the dog. Got to talk with another of the local LEOs. He said they were getting quite a few calls. I knew the officer and he just kinda laughed and said it might be a good idea to just keep carrying the handgun. He also said that they had only gotten calls from one area of town. Which was funny because I had walked all over town including through downtown and right in front of the poice station. Edited to add if you didn't know boardman is right next to youngstown where the Chief is a real dick. |
Wow...if I carried an AR in public in Columbus, I might get shot. People really need to gain an understanding of the gun laws. Godd job w/ the AR open carry...that would be fun. |
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Okay, someone finally said something today--the clerk at Software Etc. Clerk "you know there's a gun on your hip?" Other customer "you really think he doesn't?" clerk "It made me a little nervous at first. So you're a police officer?" Me "nope." long silence clerk "so I hear they're close to passing the concealed carry bill..." Turns out the guy owns a Desert Eagle--pretty cool. I thought he was going to be a tool. |
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NO it is not legal in Akron. Current Akron municipal code 137.02 states that "No person shall carry on or about his person a pistol, a knife having a blade two and one half inches in length or longer, knuckles, a billy, or other dangerous weapon." Their city code sucks and needs to be overturned. But somebody will probbaly have to be arrested to achive it. |
It's quite interesting that a city code/ordinance can override a state supreme court ruling. It's also BS. I'm sure there should be some resolve soon, but who knows. I've already called my local departments and got the green light, but I'm sure I'll run into the one officer who isn't up to speed on the issue. |
| I dont think most Akron cops know about the supreme court ruling. I asked my brother inlaw about it since he is an lt. in the Akron pd . He did know anything about and had not heard anything about it from them cheif or other higher ups. This was all asked about a week or two ago when I asked him about a good concealed carry holster as im licensed in pa . Him and the other akron cops that I do know (drinking buddies) are pro 2nd amendment. they didn't seem to have a problem with concealed carry if we ever get it. |
I don't think the ORC specifies. The only thing that I could find close to that would be the following.
So, I guess since you can't buy one if under 21, it would be illegal for you to be in posession of a handgun w/ out a "responsible adult" present. My suggestion, since most of these people don't consider you a "responsible adult" until you hit 21, vote their ass out of office. Of course, it seems that one could infer from the ORC that anyone over 18 can legally be in posession of a rifle. Why not open carry your AR? |
| IMHO, open-carrying your AR would be more along the lines of inciting panic. It's not a viable close-quarters self-defense weapon in a public place. However, those of you Ohioans who aren't open-carrying your sidearms these days are letting the rest of us down. |
Why not? It is more powerful and more accurate than any pistol you're going to strap on your hip. The real cons: A) Ooh, it's scary! B) Big C) Not as fast on target, depending on shooter. |
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I also have my M17s bullpup with the red dot sight that is VERY fast on target. I keep the ar on a tac-sligh so it comes to bear very quickly, more quickly than the sidearm. The AR is a 16", so it's pretty short. IT will defeat body armor, i'm sure the cops won't appreciate that fact. But since thay seem to fear us having guns anyway (keep bending taft's pussy ears) maybe a little fear is in order. IT has much better ballistics, much safer to others than handguns. The only good argument is that it may take longer to engage multiple targets at close range. I really don't see any of the above mentioned scenarios. I don't see EVER having to "use" my firearms. But I will be prepeard to do so if necessary. I don't feel underarmed with my glock 19, but I would prefer to have my AR if something went bad. Inducing panic requires either intent to induce panic, or a willful disregard for the safety of others. Either of thse would be hard to prove. Unless you arew causing a panic that causes people to flee an area in mass then your not actaully violating the law. Like I alwaws suggest go read the law, that way you know it if they bring it up. They brought it up both times when they stopped me, but when you show that you understand the law and that you have a legal reason to be doing what your doing most cops dont want to get involved in an illegal arrest. |
About the AR - Mine's on a CQB Solutions SOP sling and has a red dot. It is very fast on targer/between targets. I could see people fleeing in mass amounts if I walked around with it though. |
Nah, white kids with guns don't scare anyone.  They'd just think that you are a little old to be carrying a black super-soaker.  Or that you were looking for your school chums to play a game of paintball.  Damn kids anyways ... [Waiting for snappy response]  |
READ THOSE LOCAL ORDINANCES!!! You can not carry a firearm of any kind - openly, concealed, or otherwise - within the city limits of Dayton. In fact, to be within the letter of the law, you are required to go down to the Safety Building, get yourself fingerprinted, and have a background check done if you own ANY semi-auto firearm within the city limits. Not sure if they require you to tell them which semi-auto firearms you own, but it wouldn't surprise me. Don't know what the ordinances in Riverside are, but I bet they are pretty much the same. Dave |
Not quite sure what you mean here. If you mean you only have to register if your official residence (ie DL address) in in the city limits, that is correct.
Think "NO" all you want. As long as the local ordinance is still on the books, you will have DPD prone you out, cuff you, and book you into the county jail. I don't agree with it, but that is what will happen. Will you have a decent court case against the city? Yes. Several months (or years) down the road you will be vindicated. You could be the test case. Or you could petition the city council to get the unconstitutional ordinance removed from the books. It will take just as long, but will not require jail time or a court battle. Dave |