Posted: 3/28/2007 4:33:21 PM EDT
I decided to put up at least a token effort...
OK, so what was the name of that worthy California firearms lobby I want to become a member of? NTM |
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If you are actively pursuing this please get in touch with www.californiaconcealedcarry.com These offices do many illegal things in CCW denials and if you do your cards right you may help yourself and others. Read the site for guidance... Bill Wiese San Jose CA |
| In addition to the above link, also check out www.californiaccw.com |
From that site:
Don't think I'll qualify. Unless I'm particularly paranoid about terrorists or anti-war types coming after me for being one of X-many hundred National Guard officers in California (And a junior one at that), I qualify more under "just want" than "need." I think I've a better chance with the legislative system, slim though that may be.
Is there anything on that site? Looks like a generic placeholder NTM |
Is there anything on that site? Looks like a generic placeholder NTM I think he means California CCW Forum |
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Yeah, yeah.. As I said, predictable. Still, it's the principle of the thing. I have half a mind to resubmit my application anyway, so that I can have a record of it being officially denied as opposed to just turned away at the door. On the other hand, I'm not convinced by what it would do to me if I have to say 'Yes' on the question of 'Have you ever been denied a CCW before?', especially if I move house to a semi-realistic county. NTM |
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I handle large sums of cash on a fairly regular basis and we were recently robbed in a very pre-meditated manner right outside our premises. I formerly had a CCW in CA that was taken from me via legislation. Upon inquiring about submitting an application for, and ultimately receiving, a CCW permit in my County, I was told 2 things (paraphrasing of course). 1. Forget it, you will not receive one under ANY circumstances. 2. That's a shame about the robbery and constant threat due to large cash transactions, get a Brinks truck or stop using cash.  ETA: I don't know what bothered me the most, the NO answer, or the utter sense of arrogance and lack of interest with which it was delivered. |
Oops, yeah, I never type urls in my address bar, I always google bar them so I had the extension wrong, the .org was what I was talking about. |
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Hi, I'm the Team Billy Jack (TBJ) Webmaster at www.CaliforniaConcealedCarry.com This experience is, I'm afraid, typical. Note: Most of the examples below are hypothetical, but are realistic when compared to our findings. It isn't good strategy to tell people like this exactly how much you know about them, so I'm making up similar, but different, examples. Sheriffs/Chiefs who don't want to issue adopt tough policies (many of them use the exact same one, available for a price). This policy allows them, apparently, to deny just about anyone and appear to be legal. But then, along comes the city mayor and wants a CCW. So, they have to invent a reason, such as "Attends meetings in a bad part of town." Now, that would be OK if they then issued to you and me if we attended meetings in the same bad part of town, but they won't. Whoopsie, discrimination. Or, they insist that the General Public applicant attends an expensive training course, but they allow the busy mayor to just fire a few shots at the police range and skip the compulsory (for everyone else) psych evaluation. Whoopsie again. We know of one city manager (this isn't hypothetical) who was actually given a police automatic to be his carry weapon. Can anyone say "One law for them, another for us?" A department that operates an effectively "no issue" policy except for a favored few is illegal (Salute v. Pitchess, 1976). Our current case is against a department that has well under a dozen permits out. They were all issued to officials and other cronies, with flimsy "Good Cause" statements. The stated application procedure was sometimes skipped, and generally ignored. We expect to win handsomely. Once this one is wrapped, we have a couple of other similar ones ready to roll. It's easier if you have a strong good cause. You need to find out how many permits are issued and who they have been issued to (they should tell you this, as it is a matter of public record). Examining the applications is straightforward if you know what you are looking for, but in the case of departments like LASO (over 400 permits out) they will claim that there is too much work (redaction) for them to do to comply with the Public Records Act. This should not be the case in Santa Clara, but (even if it is) we have ways and means of dealing with it. Then, having demonstrated that some animals are more equal than others (see "Animal Farm"), one can bring a case under the 14th Amendment. We would dearly love a candidate, preferably with work related G.C., to step forward in Los Angeles County. We have already done some spadework there, and can clearly demonstrate that the 400+ LASD ccw permit holders list is clearly correlated to the list of Baca's political contributors and Tinseltown celebrities. For us to fight such a case, we need qualified plaintiff(s) with a strong good cause who is/are willing to use the Federal courts to fight the administration. We can help such candidates fund this process and we would hope eventually to recoup (and more) this expenditure. We don't take on cases unless we are sure we will win (hence the need for a strong G.C.) We might not be able to get Manic_Moran a CCW, as his G.C. is probably not strong enough, but we would willingly talk with him (or anyone in a similar position) and discuss ways of forwarding the cause for everyone's benefit. We can be contacted through www.californiaconcealedcarry.com/feedback.html or at [email protected]. Send us an interesting, literate, email with a phone number, and we'll reply; we might even call you back. However, we do tend to ignore people who look illiterate or just want to be spoonfed. People who say things like "I want a CCW because it's kinda cool. How can I get one? Can I lie about my felony convictions?" don't get any respect from us. How about claims that these cases take ages and cost lotsa moola, and that the courts are on the Sheriff's side? I can see that many people might think this, but we are hammering our approach in a white hot forge. In effect, we are developing an approach that should (especially as we gain more precedents) move forward much faster. Much of the ground work has been done. We needn't spend a decade fighting to establish precedents such as those already established by Guillory v. Gates. And 14th amendment cases are heard in the Federal courts, which tend to be much faster than local courts. There will be more news on this after our current case is further advanced. And do our cases help applicants who don't take part in them? Almost certainly. Our work should result in departments operating fairer policies. If our client who attends meetings in a bad part of town gets a ccw, so should anyone who attends them. If our client wins a financial award, then there's an incentive, surely, for the sheriff/chief not to risk paying out again to someone else. |
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Two Pieces of (well meaning) advice. NEVER post any personal data, or your Good Cause, on a forum, except in a very generalized way. Asking about your chances of getting a CCW are meaningless, unless you specify exactly where you live (see rule 1.) In some counties, you only need to say "For my protection." In others, you need to say "Here's a gazillion dollars so I can become your best buddy." Therefore, all queries about possible Good Causes should be accompanied with your residential details, and should be submitted by private messages or emails. See CaliforniaConcealedCarry.com contact details in my last message. Oh yes, I recommend that you edit your last post. |
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Just for a few quick thoughts and some later pondering What was the actual Application cost? How much of that is refundable/non-refundable? How is it broken down? x amount for finger printing, etc? I'm just wondering if there might be some arcane violation of civil procedures code, B&P code, government code or maybe even fraud if they accept money for processing an application when they know they will be rejecting it? Again these are just maunderings of a non-lawyer mind. Not claiming it to be the crimes against humanity that some here are always coming up with whenever they are displeased with something. It would take some goggle glassed poindexter type some real research into the minutiae of the codes and precedents, and maybe not find anything. Hell in a perfect world, if you really had good cause, there wouldn't be any charge for a permit. Hell Hell, in a really really perfect world, not only should you not need a permit. Hell Hell Hell, in a super perfect world, you wouldn't ever need a concealed weapon. |
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Eh, good work TBJ. Unfortunately, it won't amount to much for all but those with the most time, money, and determination to force an unwilling chief LEO officer (either through pressure, case law, or litigation) to consider giving them a permit. The only thing that is going to give us the same rights as most of the rest of the nation with regards to CCW is state level legislation. It's the only thing that can remove that discretionary (read: arbitrary) power from the chief local law enforcement officer. Unfortunately, in the CA political climate of present, and with the overwhelming left wing democrat makeup of legislators, I don't know that this is possible. |
Thank you. Initially you are correct; but we hope to create a domino effect that should eventually help many other potential applicants.
Again correct, but this will take time - even if it is possible. Our approach is to nibble away at that which can be nibbled at. You eat an elephant one bite at a time. The wise man starts with the easiest part of the problem, and defers the harder bits until later. TBJ - Webmaster at www.CaliforniaConcealedCarry.com |
The high cost is only if you're approved, right? I mean, the apply and then get denied won't be a pocket emptying action will it? I live in Ventura Country and work at a gun shop... well. not "work" as in I'm employed and get paid, but I help out, hang out, and the owner gives me good deals. Also, there's been unfriendly activity in the area and I'm nervous sometimes coming and going... I want to apply (in fact I've filled out an app) but I'm intimidated to go for it. Anything you can do to help me out in increasing my chances?? h.gif |
The last time I looked, the Penal Code section allowed the Sheriff to collect 20% of the application fee up-front. In practice, at least several require it all up-front. Why not? You'd have to sue them to force them not to, and that would just be pounding the last nail into your chances of getting a CCW issued.
Ask on CaliforniaCCW Forums As Ventura is a coastal, urban county, your chances are pretty slim. The best thing you can do for yourself is print out and read Section 12050 of the CA Penal Code very carefully. Understand everything. You could also call the Ventura Co. Sheriff's Department and ask to speak with the licensing department. They could be very candid with you, and give you an idea of what your chances are, and what you might be able to do to increase your chances. But read through the abovementioned forum. Especially the section on Ventura. Ask questions... there is a lot of info out there about who has permits, how, why, etc. You need to be armed with all of the information you can possibly get. |
