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Posted: 5/28/2003 11:29:40 AM EDT
I’m getting really tired of the “screw California” crowd.

Seems like many people posting here forget that California has more conservatives than any other state in the union and the people there voted for Bush in higher numbers than any other state. Only Texas really comes close to California at 85% of the number of votes cast. One of the finest presidents ever, Ronald Reagan, calls California his home.

Votes for Bush Nov 2000 results in millions

California 4.437
Texas 3.796
Florida 2.909
Ohio 2.294
Pennsylvania 2.264
New York 2.235
Illinois 2.019
Michigan 1.947
North Carolina 1.607
New Jersey 1.253

At over 35 million people, California is the most populous state in the U.S. In the past ten years, California grew by 17 percent; in the last 50 years, it more than tripled. Today, California adds over 550,000 people annually, which is roughly equivalent to adding the entire state of Vermont every year.

California’s staggering population growth is diminishing quality of life here. The state government’s Legislative Analyst’s Office warns that continued growth will “produce additional strains on the state’s physical and environmental infrastructure, including demands on the energy sector, transportation system, parks, and water-delivery system.”

So it appears that other states are sending their liberals into California rather than accepting ownership of their own. California’s growth is also caused by massive foreign immigration both legal and illegal. Again our problems are caused non-Californian bringing their liberal votes into our state. It would seem that the problems caused by liberal governments here have been brought here from other states and other countries.

It’s only natural that having over 12% of the entire population would like wise have greater that our share of whacko people. It would also seem that the whackos are coming here in a greater percentage than more normal people. Sort of a snowball rolling down hill where the whackos attract more whackos.

If the “screw California” crowd were studied enough to learn that how goes California so goes the nation they might change their tune. If I was the type to run from my fights I might follow their mantra of “just move out”.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 12:22:17 PM EDT
I am appalled by the ignorance displayed by the Republican Party at the California state and National level. The population growth in the past 10 years comes primarly from immigrants - mostly illegal. When they get here, they are told to vote (illegally) for liberals to get welfare goodies and to keep the evil conservatives from deporting them.

California will NEVER be conservative as long as honest conservative votes are diluted with illegal liberal votes. The Republican Party is unwilling to recognize this problem and the Democrats are not motivated to change because they benefit from it. Meanwhile, we all suffer.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 12:31:22 PM EDT
How many electoral votes did GW get from California?????



Fix your problems, we'll quit giving you shit.

TXLEWIS

as in TEXAS!!!!
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 12:49:17 PM EDT
Cali isn't getting liberals from other states to move in, they are all coming in from Mexico. Your neighbor to the east (NV) has better gun laws than Texas and is building a range that will be the largest in the country at 12 square miles, were not doing to bad over here.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 12:50:24 PM EDT
Reguardless of how many voted for him, he didn't carry the state. Remember only the electoral college votes count for a winner.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 1:36:13 PM EDT
the question that begs to be asked is: how can kalifornia be fixed? until it is fixed it is a festering boil in our republic...
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 1:46:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BaNo:
Reguardless of how many voted for him, he didn't carry the state. Remember only the electoral college votes count for a winner.



But people aren't saying f^ck the electorial college, they're saying fu<k California.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 2:01:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thejokker:
the question that begs to be asked is: how can kalifornia be fixed? until it is fixed it is a festering boil in our republic...



By using the laws against immigrants voting.

It's well known but never reported that a majority of the illegal vote. They don't have to prove citizenship to get a driver's license nor does anyone have to show a passport to vote. Hell I never had to show ID at all to vote. Mexican ID's are now accepted by the police who don't have the time or resources to help the INS - who doesn't seem interested in arresting anyone.

The Republican's don't want to make the illegals an issue because the D's have the race card ready to throw if a complaint is even thought of.

Look at what happed when B1 Bob Doran bitched about Loretta Sanchez's election. Sanchez changed her name back to her maiden one to gather the Hispanic vote. Elections around here are determined by name recognition only. Come October the streets are littered with hundreds of posters with NOTHING other than the name - no party - no policy - no slogans - not even a picture.

(Those posters make for good targets and target frame backing)

I don't hear people rally against CT, HI, IL, or NY which all have arguably worse restrictions on firearms.

The Hollywood crowd is only equaled by the New York publishers and television news and entertainment crowds in their bias but to the uninformed Hollywood is the source for the other two biased media too.

It amazes me that people are so very willing to sling crap at an entire state (or sex, race, country) with such easy. The sheep haven't two thoughts in their head to keep each other company with.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 2:02:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wolfpack:
Cali isn't getting liberals from other states to move in, they are all coming in from Mexico. Your neighbor to the east (NV) has better gun laws than Texas and is building a range that will be the largest in the country at 12 square miles, were not doing to bad over here.



In a few more years when the fight is drained out of me Nevada is on my short list of states worth living in.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 4:04:15 PM EDT
Time to split the state. Chop it north of the bay, and south of Fresno and make 2 new states.

We're too big, and too cumbersome. About the only time this could be done would be under a Republican controlled congress (they have to approve new states). A petition by a number of counties passed by popular vote would be sufficient for said petition.

It certainly would downsize the significance of the electoral vote. If there were three states instead of just the one, it would be easier to sway one or even two for a more neutral or conservative way. Plus it might be possible to redraw the state constitutions .

Just dreaming, the SoCal folks wouldn't understand this and then would wonder why their water bills would quadruple.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 4:13:21 PM EDT
Dont mess with us PE, I will jihad you northies! :D
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 4:57:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/28/2003 4:57:23 PM EDT by ProfessorEvil]

Originally Posted By freeride21a:
Dont mess with us PE, I will jihad you northies! :D



With what, sharp sticks?

you do realize that there's more shooters up here per capita....
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 5:21:22 PM EDT
Paul, I have only three things to say.

1) I agree with you
2) In this forum (CA) you are preaching to the choir
3) You are also pissing into the wind if you think anyone in any other state - especially wolfpack - gives a shit about us, or doing anything to improve things here. They would just as soon everyone in CA, and from their attitude that would include gun owners, just die off and be no more.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 6:27:59 PM EDT
Oh please! Shut your whining pie hole! California is a cancer to the nation! We all know it and until you guys clean the shit out of your closet I just don't want to hear it!

Puh-lease!
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 9:07:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jtw2:
Oh please! Shut your whining pie hole! California is a cancer to the nation! We all know it and until you guys clean the shit out of your closet I just don't want to hear it!

Puh-lease!



Hm.

Must be one of them Aspen types who like to complain about why everyone isn't as great as them.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 9:44:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Pthfndr:

You are also pissing into the wind if you think anyone in any other state - especially wolfpack - gives a shit about us, or doing anything to improve things here. They would just as soon everyone in CA, and from their attitude that would include gun owners, just die off and be no more.



I moved my family from So Cal to Nevada almost 2 years ago. My son is 7th generation born Californian! My family has a LONG history in California that I am very proud of. I still have a business in California and I maintain a residence and I usually spend about 20% of my time physically in California. My Californian credentials are solid, both past AND present..........and yes I got the HELL out of there!

All you guys that quote electoral statistics or tout the activism of the California gun owners etc just crack me up. Who in the hell do you think you are kidding? The state is sinking fast at ALL levels and yes, in the past, what happens in California so goes the nation but I think that is ending. California is being basically quarantined by much of the rest of the country and I am proud to be on the front lines of that fight being here in Nevada. This comment that was made that we are not doing anything to help fix California......WE are not doing anything??? Newsflash guys......it's NOT OUR JOB, ITS YOURS!!!!

Hey, I am just being honest, I could not put up with the shit going on there so I left. At least I did not stay there and sit back and lie to myself by taking comfort in the fact that more Californians voted for Bush than any other state. Until California Conservatives start demonstrating some political courage (read balls) then the rest of the country will continue to treat the state like a plague ship drifting on the ocean.


Link Posted: 5/28/2003 10:55:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rickinvegas:WE are not doing anything??? Newsflash guys......it's NOT OUR JOB, ITS YOURS!!!!


Nice to see how much help we can expect from y'all.



Until California Conservatives start demonstrating some political courage (read balls) then the rest of the country will continue to treat the state like a plague ship drifting on the ocean.



I'm sure none of the efforts of the locals are considered "courageous" until we start shooting to many outsiders.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 11:05:55 PM EDT
As a former CAL, I love saying this, " HAPPINESS IS A 200rd BURST OUT OF MY SAW "



MOVE BACK, NEVER!!!!!!JUST THE IDEA MAKES ME:



Link Posted: 5/28/2003 11:07:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ProfessorEvil:

Nice to see how much help we can expect from y'all.



Like it or not, I am afraid the only "Help" we can provide California at this point is to not let the same crap from happening in our respective states.


I'm sure none of the efforts of the locals are considered "courageous" until we start shooting to many outsiders.


I don't even know what that means but if the only thing you can think of doing is shooting someone than I rest my case........there is nothing that can be done.......except leave.

Since you brought it up....what examples can YOU give of politically courageous actions on the part of California conservatives in general and gun owners in particular?

Yeah, I couldn't think of any either

Link Posted: 5/28/2003 11:26:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ProfessorEvil:

Originally Posted By jtw2:
Oh please! Shut your whining pie hole! California is a cancer to the nation! We all know it and until you guys clean the shit out of your closet I just don't want to hear it!

Puh-lease!



Hm.

Must be one of them Aspen types who like to complain about why everone isn't as great as them.



oh please/!!

I'M 'bout as simple as it gets...

The sad truth is that you have no idea of what you speak of. Get a clue really....
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 11:31:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:
I’m getting really tired of the “screw California” crowd.

Seems like many people posting here forget that California has more conservatives than any other state in the union and the people there voted for Bush in higher numbers than any other state. Only Texas really comes close to California at 85% of the number of votes cast. One of the finest presidents ever, Ronald Reagan, calls California his home.

Votes for Bush Nov 2000 results in millions

California 4.437
Texas 3.796
Florida 2.909
Ohio 2.294
Pennsylvania 2.264
New York 2.235
Illinois 2.019
Michigan 1.947
North Carolina 1.607
New Jersey 1.253

At over 35 million people, California is the most populous state in the U.S. In the past ten years, California grew by 17 percent; in the last 50 years, it more than tripled. Today, California adds over 550,000 people annually, which is roughly equivalent to adding the entire state of Vermont every year.

California’s staggering population growth is diminishing quality of life here. The state government’s Legislative Analyst’s Office warns that continued growth will “produce additional strains on the state’s physical and environmental infrastructure, including demands on the energy sector, transportation system, parks, and water-delivery system.”

So it appears that other states are sending their liberals into California rather than accepting ownership of their own. California’s growth is also caused by massive foreign immigration both legal and illegal. Again our problems are caused non-Californian bringing their liberal votes into our state. It would seem that the problems caused by liberal governments here have been brought here from other states and other countries.

It’s only natural that having over 12% of the entire population would like wise have greater that our share of whacko people. It would also seem that the whackos are coming here in a greater percentage than more normal people. Sort of a snowball rolling down hill where the whackos attract more whackos.

If the “screw California” crowd were studied enough to learn that how goes California so goes the nation they might change their tune. If I was the type to run from my fights I might follow their mantra of “just move out”.



You know what? I got ta say it....I fugin hate Cali and I hope you crack off and die!
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 11:39:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rickinvegas:

Originally Posted By ProfessorEvil:

Nice to see how much help we can expect from y'all.



Like it or not, I am afraid the only "Help" we can provide California at this point is to not let the same crap from happening in our respective states.


I'm sure none of the efforts of the locals are considered "courageous" until we start shooting to many outsiders.


I don't even know what that means but if the only thing you can think of doing is shooting someone than I rest my case........there is nothing that can be done.......except leave.

Since you brought it up....what examples can YOU give of politically courageous actions on the part of California conservatives in general and gun owners in particular?

Yeah, I couldn't think of any either




you damn skippy!
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 3:03:05 AM EDT
Yea, crack off and die, CA provides 1/3 of the worlds food. There are a lot of RKBA people here, lot's of liberals here too.

What movies would you watch?

TV & networks would be slammed.

I refer to this state as the CaliBan, but I recognize the importance of this State as well. Can't dump it, better to change it.
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 6:06:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jtw2:


You know what? I got ta say it....I fugin hate Cali and I hope you crack off and die!




But what would you do if the band in your sig. Agent Orange, a So-Cal band died?

Maybe you could pretend your not Cartman and try to communicate like a normal human being.
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 6:38:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jtw2:
Oh please! Shut your whining pie hole! California is a cancer to the nation! We all know it and until you guys clean the shit out of your closet I just don't want to hear it!

Puh-lease!



And what have you done to make your state better than I have done for California? Please lead us, please inform us, please teach us.

No you'd rather just sling shit like the typically mindless idiot.

STFU

Link Posted: 5/29/2003 6:45:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rickinvegas:

Originally Posted By Pthfndr:

You are also pissing into the wind if you think anyone in any other state - especially wolfpack - gives a shit about us, or doing anything to improve things here. They would just as soon everyone in CA, and from their attitude that would include gun owners, just die off and be no more.



I moved my family from So Cal to Nevada almost 2 years ago. My son is 7th generation born Californian! My family has a LONG history in California that I am very proud of. I still have a business in California and I maintain a residence and I usually spend about 20% of my time physically in California. My Californian credentials are solid, both past AND present..........and yes I got the HELL out of there!

All you guys that quote electoral statistics or tout the activism of the California gun owners etc just crack me up. Who in the hell do you think you are kidding? The state is sinking fast at ALL levels and yes, in the past, what happens in California so goes the nation but I think that is ending. California is being basically quarantined by much of the rest of the country and I am proud to be on the front lines of that fight being here in Nevada. This comment that was made that we are not doing anything to help fix California......WE are not doing anything??? Newsflash guys......it's NOT OUR JOB, ITS YOURS!!!!

Hey, I am just being honest, I could not put up with the shit going on there so I left. At least I did not stay there and sit back and lie to myself by taking comfort in the fact that more Californians voted for Bush than any other state. Until California Conservatives start demonstrating some political courage (read balls) then the rest of the country will continue to treat the state like a plague ship drifting on the ocean.





How exactly is California being quarantined by the rest of the country?
California gun laws are copied
Car emission requirements have been copied
California and Texas determine what text books the rest of the country will use.
Nevada would be in a world of hurt without California tourism.
Face it, California is a trend setter for the rest of the country.
Plus as property values in California continue to skyrocket through the roof ( my house has doubled in value since I bought it 5 years ago)our large growing population will need affordable housing. How are housing prices in Neveda?
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 7:32:34 AM EDT
So should I take the gloves off before the thread gets locked?

[mod off]What amazes me is that someone from Colorado finds the time to hang out here in the California forum. Must not have much to do in Colorado except sling insults here. Rather than encourage those fighting the good fight they sit safely on the sidelines ranting at those in the game. Those that can do, those that can’t talk shit.

Like I've said, I've had enough shit slinging, it's doing appositely no good for anyone, and speaks volumes of the maturity and wisdom of the shit slingers. To remain out of my moderator title it makes the person slinging shit look immature and selfish and too stupid to know how the political system works.

I'd rather join the fight then sit safely on the sidelines and sling crap at those doing battle. Like those pacifist fools who sat on the side of the war and watched Hitler’s Nazis roll though the Low Countries and annex Austria. The socialist blight is stronger in New York where Hillary walked in and was elected in a heartbeat and Charles Schumer leads the anti-gun debate yet you’ll never hear a peep from the anti-California crowd about NY.

Rather than encourage or support or even simply understand the battle they hope and pray that 35 million people die as the state falls into the ocean. That helps a whole lot. Any other brilliant solutions from the peanut crowd? Yes please, lets destroy the nation. Two tiny towers fell in NYC and we’ve suffered for two years; thousands of people are still out of work because of the ripple effect … 3,000 people die and our most brilliant and thoughtful suggestions from our insult slinger is to have 35,000,000 people die. Gee if we all hope that think it will happen?

If the monkeys weren’t ranting, slinging their shit, and shaking at their bars we might not even notice those thoughtless small people in the fly-over states. You sir, are the perfect example of my rant – someone who is so fearful that the socialism growing in California due to the influx of illegal immigrants will reach their home state that you’re screaming insane suggestions. You’re so paralyzed (or clueless) that you haven’t a suggestion to make. Thank God you are in the minority.

I am only here in California due to the pleasure of the President. This is not my home state. Yet I know better than some posting here that I must join the fight.

I have been stationed in Illinois (talk about fucked up firearms laws – FOID anyone?), Colorado, and Washington. While living in Washington I kept active in California using a post office address in California to keep writing letters. I maintained my membership in the California Pistol and Rifle Association. I made phone calls and donated money to pro-gun candidates in California. By federal law my campaigning abilities are restricted (unlike civilians) but I do volunteer locally and I’m quite proud of the two local congressmen from the Inland Empire who are rated “A” by the NRA. I belong to the Jews for the Preservation of Firearms, the Gun Owners of America, both my wife and I are annual members of the NRA for over 20 years now. I have written and had several letters published in local papers – copies are available on my web page (which has tens of thousands of hits) if you’d like to look at them. I routinely post excerpts of them here.

I am one of a couple dozen people that have brought so called assault rifles into the state since the 2000 ban. I proudly brought in my FAL and three of my AR’s into California. I had hundreds normal capacity of magazines here already. I’m working on my application for a Concealed Carry Weapons permit and the local sheriff is very pro-CCW. I’d like to become an NRA firearms instructor when my schedule allows it.

So I suppose I could just rant and rave about how screwed up Illinois is with their Firearm Owners ID cards, the ban on handguns in Chicago and New York City, cry about magazine restrictions in Hawaii, cry about New Jersey’s wacky laws but talk is cheap and for the weak. I get involved, I have joined the battle and hope that others continue to follow my lead and not those whiney little bitches too fearful of the battle to do anything constructive so they just sit safely at a distance and toss insults at those doing the fighting for them. Keep the lip service up. [/mod off]

I hope you’re enjoying the second amendment one fine firearm at a time. Now should I lock my own thread for personal attacks?

IBTL
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 7:40:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/29/2003 7:42:48 AM EDT by Paul]

All you guys that quote electoral statistics or tout the activism of the California gun owners etc just crack me up. Who in the hell do you think you are kidding? The state is sinking fast at ALL levels and yes, in the past, what happens in California so goes the nation but I think that is ending. California is being basically quarantined by much of the rest of the country and I am proud to be on the front lines of that fight being here in Nevada. This comment that was made that we are not doing anything to help fix California......WE are not doing anything??? Newsflash guys......it's NOT OUR JOB, ITS YOURS!!!!


Sadly it is your job too yet you don't even understand that. Rather than run from the battle why didn't you join it? I hope that you gave it your best effort.

What leads you to believe that your one man quarantined works - proof anywhere?

Some old dead white guy said we must surely hang together or we'll surely hang apart.

When the hue and cry when out that the British were coming would you have been one that grabbed a musket and mustered up or one who would have returned to milking the cows? Well the British aren't coming the liberals/socialist/communist are coming and their fricken here. Where are you?

Like I said, this isn't my state but it is my battle. I'm from Minnesota originally and grew up in Illinois. But I'm as deep into the fight as I can be without quitting my job and getting into politics myself (fat chance of me getting elected!). In 15 months the military will move me out again and I can retire anywhere.

Still looking for useful suggestions rather running from the fight or killing 35 million people.

Anyone?
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 8:27:07 AM EDT
Looked at the election results for Nevada and Colorado with their 4 and 8 electoral college votes which did go for Bush.

Votes in millions

Nevada
Bush 0.301
Gore 0.279

Colorado
Bush 0.884
Gore 0.737

California
Bush 4.437
Gore 5.721

This is interesting and I see where the fear comes from. If just 22 thousand voters - a tiny 0.3% of California’s 5.7 million Gore voters move to Nevada - then Gore would have won that state. In Colorado it would take 147 thousand voters, about 2.5% of California’s Gore voters to swing the election there. I would guess that Nevada should worry more rather than Colorado as most people retiring out of California would be looking to go to another sunshine state like Nevada, Arizona, or New Mexico where home and land are cheap. Just from experience there’s more than 50,000 people driving between Los Angeles and Las Vegas on a good day!

Nevada continues to be the fastest growing state in the union and I’m willing to bet that that whopping 22 thousand number is shrinking by the hour. Nevada gains about 70 thousand people a year. The growth of the Las Vegas metro area is amazing and is spurring a grown in the service related sector where immigrants typically get their starter jobs. The impact of immigration on Nevada is best illustrated by the number of foreign-born residents in the state, which almost tripled during the 1990s. In 1990, Nevada was home to 105,000 foreign-born residents; in 1999, it had gained 169,000 foreign-born residents for a total of 274,000. (Note that this number does not include the tens of thousands of likely illegal immigrants.) Nevada’s air quality is among the worst in the nation. Chronic overloading of the sewage and wastewater treatment system has caused dangerous levels of pathogens to develop in Lake Mead, a primary source of drinking water. Las Vegas is already struggling with a water shortage, and the problem is expected to reach a crisis point by 2010. The Southern Nevada Water Authority says that even if conservation goals are met, the region’s growing population means that existing water supplies won’t be sufficient to meet demand.

So California’s problems are also Nevada’s problems. So where are you going to run next?

Colorado sees about 80 thousand a year increase and is the third largest growing state in the union. Its schools are struggling with overcrowding, its highways are clogged with polluting traffic jams, and every hour, ten acres of its farmland and open space are lost to development. Douglas, Denver, and Jefferson counties are exploding with 20% or better growth. Bob Dole won the 1996 Colorado race with just 46% of the vote, Bill Clinton took the state in 1992 with 40% - neither of which speak to a strong conservative leaning. So you are justified at also being worried in Colorado.

I made a very non-typical gain of about $80,000 last year on my house here in California and understand that alone will buy quite a nice retirement home elsewhere. The average home increased about 20% last year in my area with no signs of that stopping. In another couple of years I’ll take my money out of my four to five-year investment in California and retire elsewhere if I desire to retire from the battle.

How 'bout them Lakers, Ducks and Angeles? If we only had a football team ...
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 8:57:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jtw2:

Originally Posted By rickinvegas:
Since you brought it up....what examples can YOU give of politically courageous actions on the part of California conservatives in general and gun owners in particular?

Yeah, I couldn't think of any either




you damn skippy!


You couldn't think of any because you're both clueless. Jim March has been fighting for Equal Rights for CCW for years. BTW, he's a member of this forum.

What about the DA who sued the state over the Assault Weapon Ban? Wouldn't it be ironic if the SCOTUS takes up a 2nd Amendment case from California?

The Liberty Belles started in California, a spinoff of the Second Amendment Sisters, which also had founding members in California. They were formed in opposition to the "Million Moms."

In northern California is the only town in the nation who passed a law making it illegal to comply with the federal Patriot Act. You see, they think it's unconstitutional. Dozens of cities and towns across the country are seeking to copy that precedent.

Those are just a few I could think of off the top of my head.

There are thousands of activists in this state whose actions aren't printed in newspapers. I know a few of them. You guys in the so-called free states only read the crap posted in GD so you don't have a clue what's going on here. What you don't read about are the victories, the gun laws defeated in the legislature, the local gun laws taken off the books, the pro-CCW sheriffs elected, the dozens of lawsuits in various stages. There is positive news despite the overwhelming tide against us.

Pull your heads out of GD and join CRPA, get on a CA gun rights mailing list, read some CA newspapers and you'll see what's going on here. Here's a clue: It ain't ALL fucking bad news.
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 9:00:12 AM EDT
Forgot to add the people republik of Maryland to the list of states that are screwed worse than California but don't get bitched about.

To moderate my tone a bit, I can understand why someone might leave the state if the reasons are right. If you've got kids that you want to raise elsewhere I can see fleeing the fight to protect the young who don't belong on the battlefield.

What I can't understand is the hateful comments coming from those people. I suppose it's driven by fear more than anything. I can understand that.

But bitching at the tens of millions of California gun owners hip deep in the battle doesn't help at all.
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 9:01:31 AM EDT
Paul,
Your comments are appreciated and learned and require a thoughtful response. I do not have the time now to do so but I will later today.

I would ask one thing though, please review my earlier postings. Nowhere did I advocate "killing" off "Kalifornians". While I agree somewhat with those that criticize posters from other states coming here (California board) and stirring the pot, I am as close to a dual resident as one can get with a unique perspective and I do not apologize for posting here.

Response to come...............

Link Posted: 5/29/2003 9:14:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Big_Bear:

You couldn't think of any because you're both clueless



Ok!

Clueless?? Here is clueless for you.....

Prior to the 2000 election, I actively worked for EVERY Republican Senate Candidate, I am a former appointed staffer for Reagan/Bush 1, I contributed regularly to several House candidates in the L.A. area. I hold degrees in Political Science and History from the University of California etc etc etc.....

I know how the system works and I personally know the players and all you can come up with is some town "outlawing" the patriot act?!?

THIS is why California is done for, people like me have to fight BOTH sides of the political sprectrum and it can't be done.

Disregard my previous post........I will not be joining this exchange, good luck to you all......you are going to need it!


Link Posted: 5/29/2003 9:51:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/29/2003 9:55:45 AM EDT by Big_Bear]

Originally Posted By rickinvegas:
...all you can come up with is some town "outlawing" the patriot act?!?


Ummm... no.

You asked:

Since you brought it up....what examples can YOU give of politically courageous actions on the part of California conservatives in general and gun owners in particular?


No comment on the "gun owners in particular" I mentioned?
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 9:52:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rickinvegas:
THIS is why California is done for, people like me have to fight BOTH sides of the political sprectrum and it can't be done.




And that's why you're a moron. If you truly believe you have to fight us, your fellow gun owners, then by all means, please don't try and "help" us out.
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 10:28:04 AM EDT
PE, I assume rickinvegas was talking about the town that outlawed the Patriot Act. I've read alot of opposition to it on this forum, so which side of the political spectrum is it really on?
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 11:30:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rickinvegas:
Paul,
Your comments are appreciated and learned and require a thoughtful response. I do not have the time now to do so but I will later today.

I would ask one thing though, please review my earlier postings. Nowhere did I advocate "killing" off "Kalifornians". While I agree somewhat with those that criticize posters from other states coming here (California board) and stirring the pot, I am as close to a dual resident as one can get with a unique perspective and I do not apologize for posting here.

Response to come...............




Sorry if you got hit with the kill Kalifornians response ... might have been from someone in Florida - but the response is the typical wisdom and bashing that comes from crowd.

With a resume like yours I would have hoped your response would have been both inciteful and useful.

With degrees in Political Science and History from UC you would hopefully know much better than someone like me how the system really works and why it's broken and you could actually be a part of the solution ... rather than fighting with "both sides".

I haven't much contacts with the canidates because of legal restrictions but have visited Ray Hayes, Ken Calvert, and Bough who are very pro-gun. I do have a friend who has worked for a couple of senators and has clued me in on how much really works behind the sceens and know that there's not a chance for me doing much good.

Are you saying that the system here is so corrupt that it can't be fought or fixed?

I'm serious as I'm researching where I'd like to retire and I have been making good money here teaching for the UC system. I've been offered a job with an engineering firm in San Diego and another with a school in the Irvine area. From reading here the rest of the country is in the hurt locker on high-tech jobs.
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 12:30:55 PM EDT
Remember that those of you who sit behind the California state line are no better than those of us inside it. We are all firearm owners; we are all concerned about our rights as citizens. Dwell on that thought before pointing fingers at us. I dare say that most of us are fighting harder here in California than those of you still protected by that most precious document, the U.S. Constitution.

It's much harder to actually understand what is truely going on rather than to just follow the crowd, shout insults, and blame others now isn't it?
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 12:50:22 PM EDT
Knee jerk reactionaries are on both sides. I run into lots of anti-gunners who won't look at the facts or deeper than the surface lies they are fed.

Same thing with pro-gunners and California. They fall for the same type of propaganda, only the subject has been changed.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 12:16:52 AM EDT
I call Cali my home. I dont like the people in charge, but hey its an ongoing battle. If us good guys werent here fighting them Cali would fall faster into the hands on liberals even more so. The it makes it even harder to regain control frrm them. Why bitch and moan to us, your fellow gun guys about the government which we all hate. We didnt choose it. But we aer trying to help fix it.
But this is also a great state. Ill bet most that complain about it have never been here. Never seen Yosemite in the spring or hiked around the Sierras. never been to Napa valley and never seen the coastline up and down the state. Ive been to a few other states and I have never seen anything like Cali. Im an hour from the mountains and 2 hours from the coast. I can go deer hunting then pack up and go SCUBA diving. All in the same day if I wanted to. I live in the Central Valley which is extremelley conservative. So much that we are having a problem trying to open our forst "Hooters" resturant. Our farm land is being destroyed by assholes that want to move here and then bitch about how we do things. We feed the world and then get shit on while trying to defend our home. Come on. Hate those that are messing it up for all of us, not those trying to stop the maddness.
Oh ya. I own a AR15 and I have a CCW. So hows that for destroying your typical stereotypes about MY state?
Link Posted: 5/31/2003 9:05:54 PM EDT
For all the forkin' morons who like to "Kali-bash", please read "Birth of the AR" on this very web site.
Armalite wasn't a Texas-based business, nor Nevada or any place else EXCEPT right here in the Golden (yet slightly Gray right now) state.
Link Posted: 5/31/2003 10:06:24 PM EDT
When I first joined the site, I posted a thread about Cal. bashing. I gave as many facts, figures, and logic as I could. The results were similar. I tried to find that thread, but my search only goes back 6 months. I wish I could find it, I'd like to know what was said.

When they were starting up with AB992, I called out there to voice an opinion. I realize that it probably did no good, but what the hell. What's the story with that bill, anyway. Your state's web site is hard to follow on bill history. It looks like it passed out of Appr.

Anyway, goodluck.

Hey, if they're rippin' on Cal, at least they're leaving Il alone. For a day or so at least.

Link Posted: 6/1/2003 8:10:30 AM EDT
GreenDragon, thanks for your input. AB992 is the 10 cent ammo tax. It did pass out of the Appropriations committee and currently it's on the Assembly floor. I recently posted an alert in this forum about it.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 10:01:48 PM EDT
Thanks for the stats, Paul.

I made a little study of Nevada in 1999, looking at demographics trends and the job market, and I came to the conclusion that as much as I would like to move there, I am afraid the current political climate will not persist for much longer.

Reno is not so much of a problem, but Las Vegas, with it's much larger and growing service economy will tip the scales in favor of the democrats very soon.

Add to that large numbers of retirees, many democrat or favoring democrat policies, and it just adds to the problem.

One thing in their favor, and I don't mean this in a critical way, is they will probably never attract highly-skilled liberals in the same way California does, especially in the technology and medical research fields. They simply do not have the jobs skilled liberals seek. That's in their favor on one hand, but on the other, it hurts their tax base.

In really think it's just a matter of time before that state is voting along the same lines as California.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 6:15:43 PM EDT
We do a hell of a lot when we get the chance. Remember Prop 15 the last Gun Control measure actually voted upon by the people. It went down flaming in defeat.

I did get a snort out of the North vs South, we got more gun owners per capita comment, unfortunately that only means you don't got too many people to begin with... Frankly I can see any split that wouldn't leave a massive liberal population center in each piece.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 8:56:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
Frankly I can see any split that wouldn't leave a massive liberal population center in each piece.



Split the state into East and West California, with the border located 30 miles inland from top to bottom. The eastern state would not be nearly as rich as the western state, but it could legalize gambling and give NV a run for its money.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 9:44:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
We do a hell of a lot when we get the chance. Remember Prop 15 the last Gun Control measure actually voted upon by the people. It went down flaming in defeat.

I did get a snort out of the North vs South, we got more gun owners per capita comment, unfortunately that only means you don't got too many people to begin with... Frankly I can see any split that wouldn't leave a massive liberal population center in each piece.



I'm pretty sure that if I move to Neveda I'll double the ratio of guns to people
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 9:14:31 AM EDT
Hey, all you wannabe state dividers:

San Diego County belongs with the GOOD GUYS, mmmmkay?

Link Posted: 6/6/2003 3:17:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By California_Kid:
Hey, all you wannabe state dividers:

San Diego County belongs with the GOOD GUYS, mmmmkay?




San Diego - it's county - Riverside, San Berdoo' and Orange counties could form their own state. They'd be bigger than many in New England and be 110% conservative.

Going to the beaches this weekend to remember why I live here. Is there any state in the union that can come close to having the babes we do - Texas possibly?
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 11:55:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Paul:
Going to the beaches this weekend to remember why I live here. Is there any state in the union that can come close to having the babes we do - Texas possibly?



Ask LT about Texan womenz.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 11:15:08 PM EDT
San Bernardino County by itself is larger than the 7 smallest states (maybe 5 IIRC) and is larger than the 3 largest put together. Unfortunately they may have more jackrabbits per acre than people but you can't have everything.
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